Enhancing splash weapons?

[Fates]

As the title says. Is it possible to give splash weapons magical weapon enhancements? Are they treated as ammunition, like the shuriken?

If so, can anyone think of any particularly nasty enhancements for alchemist's fire n' family?

[TuggyNE]

They're not on the table of weapons (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#tableWeapons), they do not require proficiency, and they aren't listed under Magic Weapons either. Instead, they're generally listed as alchemical items under equipment.

However, the definition of splash weapons (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#throwSplashWeapon) starts with the magic words "A splash weapon is a ranged weapon", so perhaps you can.

[Barsoom]

the definition of splash weapons (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#throwSplashWeapon) starts with the magic words "A splash weapon is a ranged weapon" ...

... and continues with the words "that breaks on impact". Are you sure you can spare at least 8,000 gp to enchant something that's by definition one-use?

[Invader]

... and continues with the words "that breaks on impact". Are you sure you can spare at least 8,000 gp to enchant something that's by definition one-use?

You'd just treat it as ammunition.

[Barsoom]

You'd just treat it as ammunition.

So ... basically ignoring the book text when it's convenient to us, are we? It specifically says they are weapons, not ammunition.

[Cirrylius]

So ... basically ignoring the book text when it's convenient to us, are we? It specifically says they are weapons, not ammunition.
In the absence of precedence for weapons that break after one use, yes, handwaving splash weapons to ammunition doesn't seem very out of line.

I suppose you could consider them improvised weapons, with the additional benefit that they don't receive a -4 to hit because you're using them in the manner for which they were intended. Can you enchant improvised weapons?

Enchanting a crap range, crap damage splash weapon as an actual weapon (while probably not RAW) doesn't strike me as especially game-breaking, but then again my Knowledge: Cheese & Rules Exploitation is pretty marginal.

[Curmudgeon]

Who's going to go to the trouble of crafting a masterwork version of a splash weapon? Those aren't in the books.

If you want to enhance something like this, just stick to spells like (Greater) Magic Weapon, Align Weapon, & c.

[Barsoom]

In the absence of precedence for weapons that break after one use, yes, handwaving splash weapons to ammunition doesn't seem very out of line. I'm sorry, but what exactly are you going on about? Why would you need a precedent? You have been told specifically they are weapons. And that they break after one use. There's no need for a precedent. Precedents are what you would consider using when the rules are unclear or ambiguous. This is not the case here.


I suppose you could consider them improvised weapons, with the additional benefit that they don't receive a -4 to hit because you're using them in the manner for which they were intended.
Or, you could read the actual rules. Bold, I know, but if you would do so, you'd know splash weapons are not improvised weapons. They are weapons that don't require a proficiency.

Why are you making in-depth theories and interpretations when there's a clear and concise rule covering the situation? Is it because you're not happy with the outcome? Not powerful enough for you? Fine, go houserule it. But call it a houserule. Don't pretend you're "interpreting the rules" or anything like it.

[Harrow]

When using a Gnome Calculus (which I think was from the 3.0 Arms and Equipment Guide and never got reprinted in 3.5) splash weapons are called out as ammunition. So you could enchant that and have it pass the enchantment on to the ammunition. Splitting anyone?

I guess you could pay the fee for masterwork splash weapons then enchant those 50 at a time, but that seems a little weird to me for some reason :smallannoyed:

[Grinner]

I remember hearing about improved alchemist's fire being in one of the Dragon magazines.

Also, aren't shurikens treated as ammunition for the purposes of enchantment?

[Kudaku]

Are you playing 3.5 or PF?

I seem to recall that there were rules for making "extra strength" alchemist's fire somewhere in 3.0 or 3.5, but it was fairly expensive for relatively small extra effect - from 1d6 to 2d6 but it cost about 300 gp per flask.

If you're playing PF I'd suggest just playing an alchemist really :smallsmile:

[zlefin]

on the d20 srd, in the epic rules, I think for epic skill checks in alchemy. The price is rather ridiculous, and the skill level required to get it is absurd iirc or something. But you can houserule some adjustments to that.

[Kudaku]

Thanks! Found it (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#augmentedAlchemy). And my God, that is an epic feat.

So an epic feat, a DC 40 craft: alchemy check and 100 gp will net you an alchemist's flask that deals 2d6 fire and 2 splash damage.

[Invader]

So ... basically ignoring the book text when it's convenient to us, are we? It specifically says they are weapons, not ammunition.

It specifically says arrows, bolts, and shuriken are all listed as weapons in the PHB. Shuriken specifically are listed as weapons that break after use but when you enchant them you enchant them as ammunition.

You'll notice that alchemist fire is only listed as a weapon in the description of the item and not on the actual weapon chart so...

At the very least you can say there is no definite rule that clarifies enchanting either way and there is absolutely a precedent for enchanting a single thrown weapon that breaks on impact as ammunition and not as a single weapon.

[Vedhin]

Thanks! Found it (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#augmentedAlchemy). And my God, that is an epic feat.

So an epic feat, a DC 40 craft: alchemy check and 100 gp will net you an alchemist's flask that deals 2d6 fire and 2 splash damage.

If you must use it, use the version in CAdv, which does everything that the SRD version does all to one item, and bumps up any save DCs by 2.

[eggynack]

Thanks! Found it (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#augmentedAlchemy). And my God, that is an epic feat.

So an epic feat, a DC 40 craft: alchemy check and 100 gp will net you an alchemist's flask that deals 2d6 fire and 2 splash damage.
Epic feats are often stupid. Still, I can't say I wasn't surprised by how stupid this was. I'm not even sure if the doubling effect is worth a feat, let alone an epic feat, crazy skill ranks, and five times cost. I'd probably offer the feat in that manner, if someone cared about having it. Y'know, just get rid of every prerequisite and limitation. I doubt there's a way to seriously abuse that ability, though having an unseen servant drop tons of splash weapons from above would become a more viable plan.

[Averis Vol]

If you don't mind homebrew, Djinn in Tonic made a good set of changes for alchemists items. link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75871)