Interesting Binder Builds for Enemies?

[Jeff the Green]

Stay out, Across the Multiverse: EtCR players. You know who you are.

My players are clobbering their current encounter and are about to take on their real target: a coven of witches. EtCR has them statted out as adepts, but that's boring. I've swapped them to Binders, but I want to diversify them a bit.

Other than the eight binders there's a green hag (which I will advance) and an Aspect of Chernobog, which is a tough Evil Outsider that is basically a Warlock with DR 5/epic and better hit dice.

So I'm looking for some interesting things to make the witches. I think at least one will be an Anima Mage, but I'm not sure what the others should be or what they should bind. They should be around level 8.

[Vaz]

EtCR?

Anyhow, Zceryll is usually the go-to one for just bringing in a ton of different summons.

I also like the Psionic Vestiges; http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070119a.

Vanus is pretty ninja.

I don't think you can go wrong with straight binder, but just combining them in different ways.

[Jeff the Green]

EtCR?

Expedition to Castle Ravenloft


EtCR?

Anyhow, Zceryll is usually the go-to one for just bringing in a ton of different summons.

I also like the Psionic Vestiges; http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070119a.

Vanus is pretty ninja.

I don't think you can go wrong with straight binder, but just combining them in different ways.

Unfortunately, Vanus and Zceryll are probably out of their range, as I'm not sure if my players could handle a bunch of 12th-level binders. Arete will be nice for keeping them alive when the smite-happy paladin whacks them, though.

[Dusk Eclipse]

You need one binder using Focalor to debuff thd party and make them easier prey for the hag's spell like abilities (or other binder's Su ability)

[Novawurmson]

Subscribing, because who doesn't like binder build advice? :D

Improved Binding will give you 5th level vestiges.

Two spirits gives you a bit more room to work around with, so try to pick an "active" spirit and a "passive" spirit.

Geryon will screw Rogues up with all-round vision. Acererak has some useful immunities depending on your party's main damage sources.

Knight of the Sacred Seal is solid, but you'll only be able to get two levels of it. Vestige Protection is still decent.

[Mithril Leaf]

If you're friendly to good third party material, I'd actually recommend the Unbound Witch from the book Secrets of Pact Magic, but it requires you learn the (not so major) differences between their pact making and standard WotC pact making.

Anyway, one option is to have a single witch pimp out her diplomacy/bluff and try to parley with the players to lure them into an ambush, since this is one of the strengths of a binder. If you don't feel like playing up social stuff, Tenebrous mixed with Otiax is a nice combo for some reliable damage, and if you take power attack they can use it on the air blast because it is technically a melee attack.

[Psyren]

8th level means they've just got their 2nd vestige. If you give them Improved Binding it can be a 5th-level vestige too.

I suggest you do the following with 3 of them - Str-based brute, Dex-based skirmisher, and "caster."

For the caster - Focalor as mentioned is a nasty choice. He can pelt somebody in the party with 4d6 lightning bolts every round, so they want to close with him and shut him down fast. His aura of sadness will protect him if anyone gets close, and his blinding breath is a good panic button if the fight starts to go south. (Remember that vestige abilities don't provoke AoO, so don't feel like you have to keep him out of melee range at all costs if he has okay AC.) A good second choice is Geryon for the acid gaze - now, the whole party is taking 2d6 every round (unless they avert their eyes, i.e. concealment) and some poor chap is eating 6d6 between that and the lightning. So he becomes sort of a soft timer on the fight - if they don't shut him down they will be in a lot of pain. Give him good pacts with both (their influences don't matter much anyway) and high Cha, both to explain his skill with binding and to make his lightning hard to dodge.

For the brute - This one should be a hard-hitting tank. He should be the most obvious threat to the party, and so dramatic vestiges fit him well. Savnok and Andras are a good combo, letting him summon a suit of full plate and a heavy warhorse out of thin air. You could also go with Savnok and Aym, letting him wade into melee, burn his attackers and break their weapons with ease. A bad pact with Andras is an interesting way to help the party if the fight drags on too long. Finally, Savnok and Dahlver-Nar will give him pretty hefty AC and other tanking goodies.

For the skirmisher - Paimon will make this guy pretty nimble - you can use his dance to run through the party, slashing all the while, at the start of the fight. Combine with Andromalius to get 2d6 sneak attack on each of them. Have him tumble around and flank with the brute whenever possible.

How many Binders will there be total?

[yougi]

How many Binders will there be total?

OP said 8.

Any limits regarding race? And when you say 8th level, do you mean CR8, including race CR?

[Jeff the Green]

8th level means they've just got their 2nd vestige. If you give them Improved Binding it can be a 5th-level vestige too.

I suggest you do the following with 3 of them - Str-based brute, Dex-based skirmisher, and "caster."

Ooh, I like.


OP said 8.

Any limits regarding race? And when you say 8th level, do you mean CR8, including race CR?

They should all be human, though appropriate templates would be okay. I'll probably make the brute a tainted raver (HoH; basically constant Rage and insanity as a Derro).

[Piggy Knowles]

Have you looked at Ashardalon Reborn (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/29098007/)? It's a fun little build that essentially uses bloodlines to create a "dual progression" of meldshaping and pact binding where none exists.

It particularly excels at major fear debuffing, and at making a whole lot of natural attacks with energy drain riders, but it's a pretty neat little build with a lot of versatility to it, and worth checking out for ideas even if you're not using this exact build.

[lsfreak]

Obligatory link (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871830/Consolidated_Binder_Handbook?post_num=3#338416690) , in case you hadn't seen it.

Binder 3 (Focalor)/Dark Companion Hexblade 4 inflicts a -4 to saves to adjacent creatures, plus the hexblade curse and anything else you can manage. (Adding Paladin of Tyranny 3 adds another -2).

[Novawurmson]

This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9321125&postcount=154)is one of my favorite Binder builds. It's juuuust coming into its own at level 8, but 12 or so would be even better.

[Averis Vol]

They should all be human, though appropriate templates would be okay. I'll probably make the brute a tainted raver (HoH; basically constant Rage and insanity as a Derro).

if you want to explain their affinity for binding you could instead make them a council of karsites (ToM pg 85) which are basically humans with the blood of Karsus within them. they get:

a boost to con and charisma

dr 5/magic

SR 10+level

a magic draining attack that if your players are hit in melee, they have to roll
a will save DC 10+cha mod or one of the combat-oriented magic items (armor, shield, or weapon) in their possession is suppressed for 1 round

spell healing, which means if their spell resistance blocks a spell, they heal 2 hp/spell level.

The only downside to a karsite is that it cannot cast spells. Period.

[yougi]

#1: Savnok and Otiax gives you +1 full plate and proficiency with it (for free, so invest in other defensive items), 20% miss chance, DR3/piercing, and combat reflexes for free. If you give him a reach weapon, he’ll be a tank that’s hard to get around.

#2: Balam and Karsus; load him with wands, he’ll just spam that. The rerolls and gaze damage also increase his damage. Plus, with Improved Init and a good dex (which he should have), it’s pretty hard to go before him.

#3: Paimon and Tenebrous. With Favored Vestige (Tenebrous), that Dance of Death (or Whirlwind attack) will have +3d8 cold damage to every attack. Not great, but not bad.

#4: Dalver-Nar and Focalor: Focalor’s aura helps your opponent fail their save against the Shield self, and between Lightning Bolts, blinding breath and dazing moan, you should have plenty to do. Plus, doesn’t require Improved binding, so you could take Ability Focus on Shield Self with that, or maybe Mortalbane on the Lightning bolts.

#5: Andras and Balam: For a good meleer. Charging, improved crit and rerolls, plus gaze attacks to those who look at you is a good combo. And making PCs hit each other is a great feeling.

That’s what I’ve got so far... Plus, as a beginning optimizer, this might be either underpowered, or maybe even illegal... Still, at least they're ideas.

EDIT: And I second Karsites!