Soccer is serious in Brazil [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Brother Oni

2013-07-06, 06:11 AM

It's deadly serious everywhere in the world that calls it "football" instead of "soccer".

A quick check indicates the countries that use 'soccer' are the US, Canada, South Africa, Japan, Australia and New Zealand.

I'm surprised at the high number of Commonwealth countries in that list... you should be ashamed of yourselves. :smalltongue:

Xuc Xac

2013-07-06, 07:18 AM

Aedilred

2013-07-06, 08:28 AM

A quick check indicates the countries that use 'soccer' are the US, Canada, South Africa, Japan, Australia and New Zealand.

I'm surprised at the high number of Commonwealth countries in that list... you should be ashamed of yourselves. :smalltongue:
I expect that, in general, "football" is used to refer to the dominant code of football, with "soccer" used to distinguish it in places where it isn't. As Xuc Xac notes, it was originally a British term. In Australia, soccer is something like the fourth-most popular code of football; in New Zealand it's a pretty distant second at best. In South Africa I think soccer is more popular by population, but since the country was run for so long by a small group who preferred rugby, etc..

While the incident linked to in the first post is pretty horrifying, I can't help but think incidences of diving and gamesmanship in the Premiership would be dramatically reduced if referees knifed the players responsible, although they'd need fairly substantial support from the FA/FIFA to protect them against violent reprisals. It's almost reminiscent of Blood Bowl.

The Rose Dragon

2013-07-06, 02:44 PM

Japan doesn't exactly call it soccer, on account of not speaking English as its primary language. But it does call it sakkaa, which is pretty close.

It also calls it shūkyū, which I did not know.

Brother Oni

2013-07-07, 03:47 AM

Japan doesn't exactly call it soccer, on account of not speaking English as its primary language. But it does call it sakkaa, which is pretty close.

It also calls it shūkyū, which I did not know.

Sakkaa is a katakana romanisation of soccer, so it's still the same word. :smalltongue:
My in-laws all call it soccer much to my dismay.

My wife says that shūkyū is a generic term for any competitive game involving kicking a leather ball with your feet, thus includes rugby and American football.
It's like saying 'water sports' or 'track and field sports'.

Xuc Xac

2013-07-07, 04:43 AM

My wife says that shūkyū is a generic term for any competitive game involving kicking a leather ball with your feet, thus includes rugby and American football.
It's like saying 'water sports' or 'track and field sports'.

Unlike the extremely specific "football"?

Aotrs Commander

2013-07-07, 08:10 AM

Tengu_temp

2013-07-07, 08:24 AM

First, let's get one thing out of the way.
http://www.augmentedplanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/handegg.jpg

And of course it's deadly serious in Brazil. Football is vastly more popular than handegg pretty much everywhere in the world except USA, but Brazil has been obsessed with it for ages, even more than the European countries that are usually associated with it, like England, Germany or France.

And yes, it's a sport that attracts a lot of violent, thuggish jerks - not among the players, but the audience. Football hooligans are especially infamous in England, but they're a normal part of the sport everywhere, and they start fights pretty much after every match.

Aotrs Commander

2013-07-07, 08:30 AM

First, let's get one thing out of the way.
http://www.augmentedplanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/handegg.jpg

Ahahahahahaha!

And of course it's deadly serious in Brazil. Football is vastly more popular than handegg pretty much everywhere in the world except USA, but Brazil has been obsessed with it for ages, even more than the European countries that are usually associated with it, like England, Germany or France.

And yes, it's a sport that attracts a lot of violent, thuggish jerks - not among the players, but the audience. Football hooligans are especially infamous in England, but they're a normal part of the sport everywhere, and they start fights pretty much after every match.

Indeed. It irks me so much that gaming gets a bad rap, but football, which has a verifiable massive history of violence assocaited with it (and not just handful of nutters), gets a seemingly free pass...

Eldan

2013-07-07, 08:39 AM

It's a ballgame and it's played on foot, instead of on a horse. The name is perfectly accurate.

Aedilred

2013-07-07, 08:53 AM

And yes, it's a sport that attracts a lot of violent, thuggish jerks - not just among the players, but also the audience.
FTFY :smalltongue:

It's a ballgame and it's played on foot, instead of on a horse. The name is perfectly accurate.
Like cricket or golf?

The Rose Dragon

2013-07-07, 10:18 AM

It's a ballgame and it's played on foot, instead of on a horse. The name is perfectly accurate.

Games that are ball games and are played on foot include but are not limited to: handball, basketball, bowling, baseball, volleyball, golf, tennis.

Eldan

2013-07-07, 10:20 AM

And most of those are variants of Football games, yes. Since we have lot of them, we then apply names for the different variants, like American Football.

Cuthalion

2013-07-07, 10:35 AM

Note: Brazil is hosting the World Cup next year. Hope they're a bit more.... professional.

snoopy13a

2013-07-07, 01:01 PM

American football evolved (or devolved based on your point-of-view) from rugby. At the time American football originated, the late 19th-century, rugby and soccer were both commonly referred to as football: rugby football and association football respectfully. Thus, American football takes its name from its rugby ancestor.

As for "soccer," it was an old British nickname for association football. The British magazine World Soccer reflects this history. It isn't the U.S.'s fault that the British later stopped using "football" to describe rugby, dropped "association" from association football, and stopped using "soccer" as a nickname for that sport. By the time the British had changed the common use of these terms, the U.S. had already established "football" as their term for their rugby derivative.

As a short side note, the Canadians also use football to describe their variant of American football. The Canadian game is essentially the same with some relatively minor rule variations--somewhat akin to the difference between Rugby League and Rugby Union.

Killer Angel

2013-07-08, 06:23 AM

Like cricket or golf?

Why are we suddenly discussing about insects and german cars? :smalltongue:

JustSomeGuy

2013-07-08, 08:15 AM

It's a ballgame and it's played on foot, instead of on a horse. The name is perfectly accurate.

Do they drive automobiles in 'murica, or do they drive asstravellers - you know, because they travel while sitting on their asses?

Eldan

2013-07-08, 08:20 AM

They drive something that moves on its own without being pushed or pulled by something else. Also an accurate name.

Augmental

2013-07-08, 09:11 AM

And of course it's deadly serious in Brazil. Football is vastly more popular than handegg pretty much everywhere in the world except USA, but Brazil has been obsessed with it for ages, even more than the European countries that are usually associated with it, like England, Germany or France.

And yes, it's a sport that attracts a lot of violent, thuggish jerks - not among the players, but the audience. Football hooligans are especially infamous in England, but they're a normal part of the sport everywhere, and they start fights pretty much after every match.

But deaths by stoning aren't common, right? Right? :smalleek:

AstralFire

2013-07-08, 09:25 AM

Ahahahahahaha!

Indeed. It irks me so much that gaming gets a bad rap, but football, which has a verifiable massive history of violence assocaited with it (and not just handful of nutters), gets a seemingly free pass...

The difference is that gamers are only beginning to make up a sizable financial market. Once you become a major financial market, you become immune to serious media criticism.

Karoht

2013-07-10, 12:10 PM

A friend of mine visited scotland not long ago.
He watched as a fellow walked into a pub with a Manchester United shirt on. Supposedly, the exterior of the pub displayed an affection for another team, quite clearly.
And within moments, the man was thrown out of the bar, through a glass window at the front.
Shortly after which, a table was seen hurtling out of the pub and into the street. Hitting a parked car BEHIND the man who had just been flung out.

I'm not exactly sure where the football hooligans get their justification to vandalize or assault people, but I will respect their love of the game.
From a very safe distance. Those people are NUTS!

Lateral

2013-07-10, 12:21 PM

Do they drive automobiles in 'murica, or do they drive asstravellers - you know, because they travel while sitting on their asses?

Damn, now I want an asstraveller.

Eldan

2013-07-10, 12:29 PM

I'm not exactly sure where the football hooligans get their justification to vandalize or assault people, but I will respect their love of the game.
From a very safe distance. Those people are NUTS!

Wouldn't be so sure of "love of the game", necessarily. At least in Switzerland, there's semi-organized Hooligan gangs who, according to the police, show up to every game, no matter which team plays. Some simply wait outside the stadium for the police to show up, without ever going in to see the game.

Karoht

2013-07-10, 12:35 PM

Wouldn't be so sure of "love of the game", necessarily. At least in Switzerland, there's semi-organized Hooligan gangs who, according to the police, show up to every game, no matter which team plays. Some simply wait outside the stadium for the police to show up, without ever going in to see the game.
So they are organized and violent criminals looking for a fight, and have little to do with the actual game, if anything?
And giving football a bad name?
Wow. What a bunch of jerks.

Eldan

2013-07-10, 12:38 PM

Karoht

2013-07-10, 12:43 PM

Oh, there's violent supporter clubs as well. We have both.

But yeah. At large football games, the police always show up in full riot gear long before the game begins, we have special fan trains (because they will be demolished) and people are searched for weapons and explosives before being admitted to the stadium.
I get drunken brawls, but why fight over a sports event? What possible reasoning do they have?

Edit: Why don't these brawls happen at fighting events, like boxing or MMA?

Eldan

2013-07-10, 12:46 PM

Same reason people form gangs, sects, tribes or cliques. In sports, you can easily form an in-group with nicely defined signs and slogans and you have an out-group already pre-defined in the other team or the police. And I assume throwing molotovs at a police formation together is a great bonding experience.

Football just happens to be the largest event. You get the most people, the most media coverage. I assume that if boxing was as big, you'd get the violent idiots there.

Tengu_temp

2013-07-11, 12:32 AM

Everything Eldan said in this thread is pretty much on the spot.

Indeed. It irks me so much that gaming gets a bad rap, but football, which has a verifiable massive history of violence assocaited with it (and not just handful of nutters), gets a seemingly free pass...

Old vs new and mainstream vs niche. Football is mainstream and old so it gets a free pass, video games are new and niche so they get the blame for everything. I presume football suffered the same problem when it was new.

Eldan

2013-07-11, 04:29 AM

I'd say that, at least here, football makes the news more often than gaming. But in different ways.

Football is in the news every other weekend. "12 people arrested at game", "Police build new Hooligan databank", "Police cordon of train station to stop hooligans before they arrive at stadium". That kind of thing. It's usually quite factual.

Games are in the news, what, twice a year? But when they are, it's huge. And panicky.

SiuiS

2013-07-11, 04:47 AM

Funny how incidents like this never cause people to make derogatory media press and campaigns about how football is evil and causes people to incite violence/[insert generic argunment about [x] causing people to violent/devil-worshipping/whatever said nutter is ragging on this week], isn't it..?

That's because if you bash war games you don't need fear war gamer reprisal.
Which is a pity, because if anyone would know the right angles for shelling a news station with a garage-made historically accurate mortar...

FTFY :smalltongue:

Like cricket or golf?

Those games are both like baseball, in that the ball is not the important part unlike football which involves fetishization of kicking and also hugging a ball like it was your child.

Baseball is focused on base movement and acquisition.

Golf is focused on a club and its variants as used for geometry, an may have actually been a word for something for all I know.

Cricket I cricket because its makers are barmy :smallbiggrin:

AstralFire

2013-07-13, 07:39 AM

Old vs new and mainstream vs niche. Football is mainstream and old so it gets a free pass, video games are new and niche so they get the blame for everything. I presume football suffered the same problem when it was new.

Organized professional sports certainly didn't always enjoy the reputation it now sports, that is for sure.

IronFist

2013-07-15, 11:55 AM

Soccer is indeed very serious in Brazil, but that has more to do with northwestern brazilian culture, where problems are solved with big knifes called 'peixeiras'.

Eastman

2013-07-22, 09:59 AM

Personally, I've never understood the emotional connection fans who are not actually playing the game have with the outcome. I've witnessed it as an outsider, and it's kind of facinating (and just strange) that you have people with tears of sadness or joy running down their faces watching a sport. I mean, if they'd bet money on the outcome, or their friend or relative was on the team, or anything of a personal connection existed, I would understand more. But I just don't get it.

(I get it with stories that are, by their very nature, designed to create that connection, but not with a spectator sport...)

Aedilred

2013-07-27, 03:22 AM

It's complicated. I'm sure that people have done quite a lot of study into the psychology of sports fandom over the years, but there are a few guesses you can hazard outside that.

In any competitive sporting environment, you're sending a team of champions representing <community> to compete with a team of champions from another. There's already a personal connection by default. The honour of your community is at stake, and the guys on the field are your representatives, so you share in their triumphs and their defeats. Nobody wants to see their champions get humiliated. For some people, the vicarious pride they can take in their team's sporting achievements might be one of the few things in their life they feel they can take pride in and therefore have an awful lot invested in it.

For some people there's also a deeper emotional attachment. With football clubs in particular there's often a sense that this is the team the family support, and it might therefore carry significance in that sense. Anyone who's read Unseen Academicals will be aware of the power and pervasiveness of the idea of your dad taking you to watch your team when you were young, even if it never actually happened...

Then, of course, you're standing in a crowd of several thousand, often several tens of thousands, all feeling much the same as you, shouting and cheering and groaning, as the ebbs and flows of the game alternately raise and dash hopes and expectations, which amplifies all of the above and turns it into an emotional pressure cooker.

Scarlet Knight

2013-07-27, 05:57 AM

Aedilred is right on.

Here in NY there are people who mourn the loss of the Dodgers from Brooklyn over 50 years ago, but no one thinks twice of the shipyards that brought the community so much more in money & jobs.

Or why fans don't care if a singer makes millions but if an athlete gets a big contract , it feels like he's taking it from the city.