Recursive Domination?

[Adoendithas]

Yet again my players have gotten into a situation I can't find any rules on.

If a succubus uses the power Dominate on a warlock who has readied an action to use Crown of Madness when he is attacked, what happens? Do they really end up dominating each other? If so, what happens? Is it equivalent to them both being Dazed? Or can they only control each others (no "I order you to order me to..." stuff)? If they don't, which effect takes priority?

[Surrealistik]

Crown of Madness triggers as an immediate reaction (i.e. after the trigger resolves), so on a hit, the Warlock is already dominated by the time the trigger happens which means he can't use CoM as he can't take voluntary actions, including the action CoM requires.

[allonym]

(And is dazed anyway, so can't take immediate actions)

[Yakk]

If I remember rightly, Dominated character are dazed and cannot take actions other than the one that the Dominator chooses on their turn as a free action.

As such, neither could order the other to take actions, because they cannot take the action to do so.

About the only way this could happen is if you arranged for the response-dominate to be an interrupt. It would go off, but it would not prevent the attack from occurring.

Now, what should *really* happen in this kind of corner case is the DM should wing it in an interesting way. The idea that each could control the other character but not themselves, for example, results in a more amusing situation than the both of them standing immobile.

[allonym]

Actually, never mind. I forgot about the rules update which removed the dazed condition from Dominated. Which was pretty needless, but anyway.

However, while your specific point is very easy to answer (because it doesn't happen), it is possible for a dominated creature to dominate the creature dominating it. There could be any number of possibilities (including a power which dominates at immediate interrupt or no action speed - I can't think of any for players off the top of my head, but there's nothing stating they can't exist per se), but one which is eminently possible is,
a: Monster dominates Bard's Ally
b: Bard dominates Monster
c: Bard uses Ode to Sacrifice to transfer Dominated condition from Ally to self, then fails the save.

In this circumstance, well...the RAW indicates that what would happen is that on the Dominated creature's turn, their Dominator determines one action for them to take. This would happen even if the Dominator is themselves dominated (or dazed, or stunned, etc), as their choosing the action you take does not in turn take an action for them, and doesn't require that they give you orders, communicate with you, or anything else. This could be rather farcical, but amusing, and the imagery is rather fun.
Personally, however, unless the specific imagery and situation made me prefer the RAW interpretation above, I'd rule that instead both creatures take no actions on their turns until the Dominated condition ends on one of them.

[Ceiling_Squid]

Crown of Madness triggers as an immediate reaction (i.e. after the trigger resolves), so on a hit, the Warlock is already dominated by the time the trigger happens which means he can't use CoM as he can't take voluntary actions, including the action CoM requires.

This seems like the reasonable ruling.

Order of actions here is what's going to determine this. If the succubus fails to dominate him, THEN the warlock gets to use his spell. At least, that's how I'd rule it. The initial act does take precedence over a reaction.

That said, I approve of this:




Now, what should *really* happen in this kind of corner case is the DM should wing it in an interesting way. The idea that each could control the other character but not themselves, for example, results in a more amusing situation than the both of them standing immobile.

It would be entertaining to see them effectively "switch bodies", and sometimes the DM can bend the rules if it results in a fun situation. Then again, it all depends on if you think this fits the flavor of the spells in question.

[Surrealistik]

This seems like the reasonable ruling.

Order of actions here is what's going to determine this. If the succubus fails to dominate him, THEN the warlock gets to use his spell. At least, that's how I'd rule it. The initial act does take precedence over a reaction.

Yeah, if he's using it as a readied action, it works as an immediate reaction relative to the trigger unless something explicitly says otherwise.