Need help with a Centaur Dragonborn Idea

[Perpetr8r]

Alright so I was thinking of making up a Centaur character who becomes a dragon born (From the Races of Dragon book)

Now I know Centaurs have 4d8 Hit Dice and a +2 LA
So does this mean I could not turn the Centaur into a Dragonborn through the Rebirth Ritual till level 7? Which I think that would allow him to also take a class besides Monstrous Humaniod for the first time right?

Right now the characters are at lvl 4 going up on level 5 soon enough.
How would the build for the Centaur go (Sorry but the whole Hit Dice + LA thing gives me a headache)
I do have to wait till he hits lvl 6 right?

How is a good way to do this?
(I apologize for sounding stupid, I have not really D&D'ed for nearly 11 years and just been playing again for 2 weeks and all these rules are making me all confused.)

EDIT: Also what is the easiest way to get ride of the LA and make all players somewhat closer? I have seen multiple theories on this from google.

[Invader]

A centaur would be the equivalent of a 6th level character, if you take a class level like fighter he'd be a 7th level character. Making him a dragonborn doesn't increase his level so you can add it free of charge. Be careful though because you'll give up some racial characteristics of the centaur when you become a dragonborn although all your stats will stay the same.

[Perpetr8r]

Well from what I see you keep:
Speed (50 ft)
Size (Large or Medium if you change before level 6)
Ability scores
RHD (4d8)
Size/Reach of 5/10

I think I would lose my Natural Armor and Natural Attacks (Hoofs)
Which I would hate to loose.

So what would it be if I made him a Lvl 4 (He would be a lvl 6 total right, as his LA is +2 right?)

If he changes into a Dragonborn would he still need to complete the 2 lvls of Centaur or would I have to just pay off the lvl Adjust?

[Invader]

Well from what I see you keep:
Speed (50 ft)
Size (Large or Medium if you change before level 6)
Ability scores
RHD (4d8)
Size/Reach of 5/10

I think I would lose my Natural Armor and Natural Attacks (Hoofs)
Which I would hate to loose.

So what would it be if I made him a Lvl 4 (He would be a lvl 6 total right, as his LA is +2 right?)

If he changes into a Dragonborn would he still need to complete the 2 lvls of Centaur or would I have to just pay off the lvl Adjust?

You can't really do it at level 4 because a centaur PC by default starts out as a 6th level character. You would start paying off the level adjustment as you were taking class levels.

[Invader]

You would keep your hoof attacks as a dragonborn.

[danzibr]

You would keep your hoof attacks as a dragonborn.
Why's that? I know Warforged lose their slam for example.

[Invader]

You would keep your hoof attacks as a dragonborn.

You would lose your natural armor but it would be replaced by the bonus from dragnborn though.

[Perpetr8r]

Can I get a confirmation (I am sure the DM would approve it since it makes sense)

So he would start at lvl 6 more or less right. I mean in Races fo the Dragon they have a way to explain the raise from lvl 1 up to lvl 6 where you get all the abilities stated in the monster entry.

I downloaded Hero Lab to help out with this but I am still wanting to be clear on issues like the hoof attacks.

Do things like Darkvision get replaced given that Dragonborn have it too under the right aspect (Mind I think)

[Perpetr8r]

How would I best get ride of the +2
The Hero Lab has my EXP needed to reach next level the same for lvl 7 but my EXP is set for the EXP one has when they get to level 4 Would this do it?

[Invader]

I could be wrong about losing hoof attacks but it says racial traits and as far as I know natural attacks are defined as racial traits even though that makes perfect sense.

Personally I'd rule that you still have hooves after your transformation because you're still essentially a centaur so you should still be able to make hf attacks. If you were a human you wouldn't forget how to kick after becoming a dragonborn.

[Perpetr8r]

I am sure my DM will house rule it even if not. He is a guy who likes to go with common sense solutions.

I noticed the Centaur have no selection for Weapon or Armor proficiencies in the entry. Does this mean he would have no armor or weapons (Aside from Natural) till he got a Proper Class like Ranger?

[Invader]

As a centaur with no levels you'll start with 15,000 xp to reach 7th level and get your first class level you'll need 21,000xp.

Are you planning on starting with a class level in something or just playing a regular centaur with no class for a level?

[Invader]

I am sure my DM will house rule it even if not. He is a guy who likes to go with common sense solutions.

I noticed the Centaur have no selection for Weapon or Armor proficiencies in the entry. Does this mean he would have no armor or weapons (Aside from Natural) till he got a Proper Class like Ranger?

Monstrous Humanoids have the following proficiencies:
Proficient with its natural weapons. If generally humanoid in form, proficient with all simple weapons and any weapon it is described as using.
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Aberrations not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Aberrations are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.

[Perpetr8r]

Ok so I could give him something like a Quarterstaff or something and light armor (Leather Maybe?)

Well originally when I typed in that I was using a centaur it set my EXP at 6000 (Which you need to reach lvl 4) and said my next level up was at 21000 which gets me to level 7. Wouldn't that set up remove my +2 LA?

LA always confuses me

[Invader]

Ok so I could give him something like a Quarterstaff or something and light armor (Leather Maybe?)

Well originally when I typed in that I was using a centaur it set my EXP at 6000 (Which you need to reach lvl 4) and said my next level up was at 21000 which gets me to level 7. Wouldn't that set up remove my +2 LA?

LA always confuses me

They actually wouldn't proficient with any armor even if it was light. Edit* You will gain armor proficiency from whatever class you take at 7th level.

I would imagine the xp thing is just a glitch in hero lab that can't account for the LA of the race.

[Perpetr8r]

I thought it was being clever given it was putting me 2 lvls down on EXP.

[You are gonna pretend you never saw that, I had a total brain fart]

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Other Racial Traits: You lose all other racial traits of your original
race, including bonus feats, skill bonuses, attack bonuses,
save bonuses, spell-like abilities, and so forth.
You would indeed lose your hoof attacks due to becoming dragonborn.

That doesn't matter though, as only a Humanoid can become a Dragonborn of Bahamut, and a Centaur is a Monstrous Humanoid. While this is not explicitly stated, it is heavily referred to and presumed to be the case by all the rules regarding Dragonborn:

Page 8, first paragraph:
The dragonborn children of Bahamut are a unique
race in that they are not born; they are reborn. Each
one enters the world as a half ling, an elf, a human, or
a member of some other humanoid race with all that
race’s propensities and traits.

Page 8, Dragonborn Racial Traits:
Humanoid (dragonblood): Dragonborn are humanoids
with the dragonblood subtype and any other subtypes
they had before undergoing the Rite of Rebirth. For
all effects related to race, a dragonborn is considered a
dragon and a member of her original race.

Combine that with page 10, Mechanics of Rebirth:
Type, Subtype, and Race: You retain your original type and
subtypes, gaining the dragonblood subtype. You still count as
a member of your original race for the purpose of any effect or
prerequisite that depends on race.

Thus, since all Dragonborn are Humanoids, and you retain your original creature type on gaining it, only Humanoids can become a Dragonborn of Bahamut.

[Perpetr8r]

Except that Warforged can become Dragonborn and they are Living Constructs.

[Invader]

Well that was an exercise in futility wasn't it :smallamused:

[Perpetr8r]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20070112a
I am gonna assume Wizards.com knows a little more about their product
Q: Dear Sage,
I desperately need your help! I need to know two things: whether a warforged can become a dragonborn of Bahamut (Races of the Dragon), and if so what are the racial traits I keep from the warforged list?
--Matt

A: Matt, the Sage is here to help.

Despite the misleading entry in the dragonborn racial traits that suggests that all dragonborn are humanoids, the only prerequisites for being reborn in this manner are a non-evil alignment and an Intelligence of 3 or better. Thus, there’s nothing stopping a warforged from undergoing this ritual and dedicating himself to the service of Bahamut

[Invader]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20070112a
I am gonna assume Wizards.com knows a little more about their product
Q: Dear Sage,
I desperately need your help! I need to know two things: whether a warforged can become a dragonborn of Bahamut (Races of the Dragon), and if so what are the racial traits I keep from the warforged list?
--Matt

A: Matt, the Sage is here to help.

Despite the misleading entry in the dragonborn racial traits that suggests that all dragonborn are humanoids, the only prerequisites for being reborn in this manner are a non-evil alignment and an Intelligence of 3 or better. Thus, there’s nothing stopping a warforged from undergoing this ritual and dedicating himself to the service of Bahamut

I could be wrong but I'm fairly certain that is unofficial and doesn't overrule RAW.

[Perpetr8r]

Well then.. guess your right. Off to check out a Raptoran/Dragonborn/Dragonfire Adept build if I want a dragonborn.

But still considering that Centaur. They are so boss.

[Invader]

Well then.. guess your right. Off to check out a Raptoran/Dragonborn/Dragonfire Adept build if I want a dragonborn.

But still considering that Centaur. They are so boss.

You could ask you DM to allow it, is not like it's over powered and you're airway behind the curve with with centaur RHD and the LA.