Difficult in game situation involving likely TPK. Help please!!

[Bane 000]

OK so I have been playing with a cunning DM and three other folks for about a year. Our party is inordinately large with each player controlling two PC's. Currently we are reaching the end of a rather difficult dungeon that we are unable to teleport out of.

Our DM has been kind enough to clue us in on the fact that we might be out of our league with this one. Currently the game is core-only so no spells or tricks from splats, though we do have access to DMG prestige classes. The situation is as follows: Final enemy is a necromancer, possibly a lich with 20th level wizard spell casting. Based on enemies we have fought she is capable of creating draco-liches, giant ghouls, and using abberant creatures from other dimensions. Common theme is undeath and chaos. We have weakened her forces considerably and so we can expect her remaining troops to fight alongside her. At the end of the day this is a variable that cannot be predicted but please take it into consideration. Last but not least we are fighting in a cathedral of undeath that takes -4 from all saves and skill checks that we make while inside the building. The mage in question has access to at a minimum based on lore we found: Timestop, Maze, shapechange.

Ok so here's out party seven total all level 13 we have decent equipment which I will detail with the characters. Also our resurrection staff has two charges left.

Wizard: Mainly a blaster type of character with limited defensive options. He recently took forcecage and reverse gravity to expand horizons, otherwise he has lots of attack options and can buff with fly, darkvision, and energy resist/protect. I have a maximize rod 3/day and a staff of evocation. I also have robes of the archmage that grant spell resistance 25.

Barbarian: Typical beat stick who whacks things with a two handed holy greatsword and power attack. Has 236 hp in rage and has freedom of movement and perma fly from rings. Low will save makes him potentially a liability if that save is attacked.

Paladin: Has some of the best equipment in the party. He has a holy avenger longsword that has been modified to provide auto full healing once per day and can cast greater dispel as much as he wants. He also has a shield that allows him to cast as a cleric up to a certain level. I'll have to ask him what that means.

Cleric: She is 12th level and has decent armor with freedom of movement, a disruptive mace, and an excellent shield. She has a trump card in the fact that she has a miracle because of an altruistic act performed previously. She has not told the party of this tough.

Druid: She is interesting she is a weretiger druid who gave up wildshape for her ability to change. She is a combat beast who often out damages and out grapples our dedicated fighters. She has access to natural spell, and decent ironwood armor. She is probably the most powerful of the bunch.

Fighter: Two weapon fighter with two +3 hand axes, he has a helm of brilliance that has lost only a few gems and wears heavy armor.

Rogue/arcane archer: Skill monkey of the group who has been having trouble doing damage because everything is immune to crits. High resistances and items that support her role as a sneaky character but rather squishy for the most part.

Ok so I fully expect that we will be in a epic fight for our lives next week. We have quite a few things in our bag of holding that might be helpful but I have written enough for now. So any advice or should I prepare for an unpleasant death?

[danzibr]

Oh. Man.

7 level 13's against a level 20 lich with her minions on her turf? I can see why the DM was dropping hints. At least you're not unoptimized.

Is there some sort of plot device which would enable you to win? The lich throwing out 9th level spells seems like it'd be too much.

Anyway, as far as constructive advice goes... The lich should be fragile if you can get past her defences. Like storm in with your mightiest dispels (but there's still a big gap in the power of the casters) and hope the Barbarian can barbar all over her face. The more I think the more it seems a frontal assault has a low success rate.

[Phelix-Mu]

I wouldn't risk a big assault. The worst part about high-level wizard BBEG is that you can throw the everything and the kitchen sink at them, and right before you succeed, they contingent teleport away. Core-only cuts down on the safeguards the lich can use, but not a whole lot. Expect to

1.) Not surprise the lich. Divinations mean she'll see you coming pretty much no matter what you do.

2.) Not be able to retreat (unless the lich wants you to). Between minions and spells blocking egress (likely tied to the enchantments on her HQ), you'll probably be unable to leave if things are going wrong. That's IF you survive long enough to realize this fact.

3.) Be hit by no-save spells, debuffs, dispels, battlefield control. Unless your DM is low-balling the lich's op-level (and it doesn't sound that way), then there are plenty of crazy bad spells in core that could easily cut the party's damage output into small fractions.

Basically, it's sounding pretty good. Unless you can come up with some huge tactical or strategic advantage, there's a really good chance of TPK.

The best strategy is to either
1.) Find the phylactery. Your character's need to know how this works for it to be plausible, but one can often use possession of their phylactery as leverage.

2.) Lure out as many minions as possible. Engage in property destruction, bad weather deployment, and other baiting to try to get as many minions to come out and die as possible.

3.) Seek outside assistance. Planar ally, planar binding, summoning, communication spells, and the like to recruit as many bodies as possible.

4.) Take over part of the villain's HQ. Terrain altering spells, fortification spells, and the like can be used to alter the building/dungeon you are in. This kind of behavior will definitely attract attention, but if you can arrange beneficial territory to fight on, then that will go a long way toward helping.

5.) Leave. Don't do the thing that the DM suggests is beyond you. I'm unclear if this is an option, but it would seem rather crude if the DM forces you into a conflict that you probably can't win.

[Raineh Daze]

If the Cleric has Miracle on hand, then run away, prepare, and come back is always an option. Moving parties via Miracle and Wish doesn't seem to get blocked by anything. Plus, with a 5,000 XP cost and no chance of error, as well as direct divine intervention? Yeah, you still have an option for retreat. :smallwink:

Note: recollections about whether Miracle can be blocked or not may be faulty.

[Steward]

So Miracle can trump something like Dimensional Lock (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionalLock.htm)?

[avr]

If you ever drop much below max HP, don't advance until healed. Symbols are nasty. On a similar note, have death ward on everybody, though given your list of enemies you've probably thought of that one.

It may be handy against the mooks, but the fighter needs to seriously think about taking the helm of brilliance off and putting it in the bag of holding. Even if someone casts Protection from Energy (Fire) on him, he's just a dispel plus a couple of failed saves away from causing a TPK.

If the rogue can borrow the staff of evocation and has UMD, a few walls of force might be more useful than tickling the enemies with a little damage. The wizard can stay busy without it.

Really though if the DM is warning you then you might want to seriously consider backing off.

[TuggyNE]

OK, you're an APL 14.5 party facing a CR 22 boss with minions in the heart of their lair, with a further brutal environmental debuff, and the DM is hinting at the better part of valor.

Let's put it this way: if you attack, you will all die, horribly and in messy ways. This is not winnable. Fight your way out and come back with allies, or better yet come back with another four or five levels. Maybe more.

[Bane 000]

Its interesting to be sure. Technically he gave us three chances to get out earlier before we started fighting the heaviest of the heavies. Every battle has seen deaths since we entered the cathedral where our saves are harmed and all summoning and teleportation is blocked (except for dimension door). The miracle is our escape route should things go south. As a DM he has allowed wishes and miracles to do the impossible so we should be able to escape with equipment if need be. As per good roleplaying the cleric and paladin want to kill this 400 year old necromancer who has literally killed hundreds if not thousands of people including women and children so us leaving is not likely. I'm not sure if its even a lich in the first place so finding a phylactery is not likely to happen. At this point I'm thinking we will funnel minions into an open area and take them out. As for the necro I thought that force cage might force the more skilled mage to waste turns dimension dooring out rather than using her best stuff. This in conjunction with constant greater dispels from the paladin's sword might give the beatsticks time to get close and do some damage. My barb is incredibly good as long as his mind does not get taken over. I like the idea of giving the rogue some firepower that my wizard doesn't need. That helm of brilliance is a straight liability but the guy playing the fighter won't listen to me about that so I can only hope he takes a monster or two with him when he explodes. Good new is we all have flying and darkvision, we are likely to have spell resistance, deathward, and protect from fire on everyone. Heck we even have diamond dust to put stoneskin on people. I was wondering if you guys had any ideas as to prep before the big battle that -4 to saves really hurts.

[ArcturusV]

Honestly my thought at this point is to leave the problem for another day. You already mentioned that teleporting doesn't work in there. Unless your DM isn't just Cunning, and mostly just a Prick, that should be universal (Selective stuff and what not isn't Core as I recall). So I'd just retreat up a few levels, and use everything at your disposal to seal the place up tight. Collapse passages, wedge doors, Arcane Lock stuff, booby traps to slow down any attempts to use the minions to break out, etc. They aren't going anywhere unless the Lich kills itself and reforms at its Phylactery... which at the very least might allow you to backtrack it's trail to figure out where it keeps it, if not within the dungeon.

Meantime, cash out, hire some thugs, get some high level casters to put some boons on you, and prep up to go in and get it done later.

[Rubik]

As per good roleplaying the cleric and paladin want to kill this 400 year old necromancer who has literally killed hundreds if not thousands of people including women and children so us leaving is not likely.The cleric, at least, should have a good Wisdom score, which should tell him that you don't attack a fortified enemy force in a superior position with far higher firepower than yours. Retreating is NOT bad roleplaying, as it's clear that you're massively outgunned at this point. Leaving and gaining enough firepower to take the necromancer down is the smart thing to do, as willingly throwing yourself into the jaws of absolute certain death (and being raised as undead to strengthen your foes) is not good RP unless your character is well and truly stupid.

Ask your party mates what there is to be gained from suicide. Does it make the world a better place when champions of good are slaughtered? Retreat, regroup, and marshal your forces before coming back in a few levels. Do what you can to seal it up, and come back when you have a better chance of success.

[Bane 000]

Does seem rather bleak though lol. I actually had my Loremaster leave on the third escape option because he's a pragmatist. I actually managed to take nine elf test subjects that the necro was going to presumably murder, with me despite the fact that the portal was a trap. It sent us to Hades and I summoned a genie to planeshift us back to our home plane. My friend was playing three characters so I took his wizard over afterwards. What sucks is my loremaster was the source of all intel and clues as to strengths and weaknesses of this creature. On the bright side his escape means arrangements have been made for the party to be revived should death occur but the loss of our amazing equipment would be tragic. I wonder if after we die then perhaps the cleric can use miracle to get our stuff back? After all why not fight to the bitter end, get revived, and ask god to give us our stuff back. We can always come back later when we are more seasoned to finish things. I must admit that a part of me wants to somehow some way beat this enemy despite the disadvantage.

[Bane 000]

Really did try to be the voice of reason after all. I thought that leaving was the smart thing to do. So I let the smart character leave and left them the dumb barbarian as a sacrificial lamb in this case. That's the problem with democracy's it's always ruled by the lawful stupid. Oh well thanks for the help guys if any other ideas as far as tactics pop up it would be appreciated.

[Rubik]

Really did try to be the voice of reason after all. I thought that leaving was the smart thing to do. So I let the smart character leave and left them the dumb barbarian as a sacrificial lamb in this case. That's the problem with democracy's it's always ruled by the lawful stupid. Oh well thanks for the help guys if any other ideas as far as tactics pop up it would be appreciated.Oh well. Take the others who will go with you and leave, sealing the way behind you. The ones who don't will make for nice XP boosts when they're slaughtered and turned into dread wraiths or something for you to kill. Just make sure you have ghost touch weapons available.

[ArcturusV]

Hmm... sadly your Cleric is just one level shy of possibly giving you the best option to really win it. And that being Rocks Fall, Die. Using an Earthquake to just drop the guy's cathedral on his own head. With his 9th level casting he'll probably get a way out of it, probably shapechanging into something with Earthglide, etc. But that one spell slot alone would most likely clear out all the minions. Course, you could Miracle it up, but that's a waste really. And as drastic as it seems, that's the reason I usually don't have high level baddies using a Dungeon. A single Earthquake spell can really ruin their days. Not to mention so many spells out there which mess with stone in some way.

[eggynack]

Hmm... sadly your Cleric is just one level shy of possibly giving you the best option to really win it. And that being Rocks Fall, Die. Using an Earthquake to just drop the guy's cathedral on his own head. With his 9th level casting he'll probably get a way out of it, probably shapechanging into something with Earthglide, etc. But that one spell slot alone would most likely clear out all the minions. Course, you could Miracle it up, but that's a waste really. And as drastic as it seems, that's the reason I usually don't have high level baddies using a Dungeon. A single Earthquake spell can really ruin their days. Not to mention so many spells out there which mess with stone in some way.
Well, they're one level or one book away. The druid could also SNA VI for an oread from the fiend folio, and that'd get an earthquake as well.

[Moogleking]

If all teleportation from the inside is blocked, smash the entrance to the dungeon up and leave. It'll take her a while to get out, and you can build your forces in the mean time.

[Tokiko Mima]

Wizard: Mainly a blaster type of character with limited defensive options. He recently took forcecage and reverse gravity to expand horizons, otherwise he has lots of attack options and can buff with fly, darkvision, and energy resist/protect. I have a maximize rod 3/day and a staff of evocation. I also have robes of the archmage that grant spell resistance 25.

Just a quick comment, you mentioned a lot of buffs, but can I assume haste is on that list? If you aren't using it, it could dramatically affect how well you mow through minions, and even give you an edge on the lich if it comes to melee.

Also, the surprise deployment would be critical, but a well timed AMF could be vital for preventing the lich from effectively locking you down. If she was silly enough to get close, the AMF's area prevents almost everything offensive a lich can do and would allow you to initiate a grapple/pin/disinterment scenario with one of your melee heavies.

[Sylthia]

You said you cannot teleport, but are you barred from retreating the old fashioned way, then teleport once outside?

[Bane 000]

We do have haste for our melee characters and we do intend to use it immediately. As for anti magic field that is not available to any of us right now. There is a summoning pool that creates a fresh supply of monsters based on a D6 role. We can fight indefinitely to perhaps gain a level or two to even the odds. The necro might notice this tactic of course.

We are also on a evil aligned demiplane hence the cathedral in the middle of nowhere. We had a chance to turn back and now it appears that either killing the BBEG or using the miracle are the only methods of escape. The Cathedral itself is sentient and is able to attack us mentally which puts my barb at a distinct disadvantage with his relatively low will saves. In fact with the -4 I usually have to roll an 18 or better to not be crippled by despair or mind controlled. We use heroes feast but it appears that the house is able to change approaches on the fly to target the weakest of us. It is unable to be purified in any conventional fashion, the cleric has already attempted to start changing the terrain to our advantage. Our paladin has taken to using greater dispels in a burst when we enter a room to nullify effects. The problem is that they come back almost immediately if he stops.

Truth is this area seems rather unfair for a party even a couple levels above ours but we were given ample warning so we are reaping what we have sown. Sad thing is that we wandered into her domain on a whim. There was no reason for us to attack her. All of her crimes were committed 400 years before the start of the campaign. The necro is well known among historians of the area but she was thought to be dead, insane, or at a minimum so paranoid that she would never leave her hidey-hole. The other characters see her as a scion of evil, but I see her as a crazy hermit who happens to have the power of a god. Why we decided to do this is beyond me. I should retitle the thread "How to handle stupid players with a death wish". Oh well I like the ideas but other than winning initiative and hitting the necro hard with two characters with true seeing to handle illusions, I'm not sure what prepping I could reasonably do to shift luck in our direction. We can do all manner of stat boosts and the like because we have a cleric, druid, and a wizard but high level spells like timestop make matters difficult. I think we will lure monsters out the door and thin out their numbers. I imagine that there is a limit to her forces so we have to make it work. Is the force cage idea a good one? I thought that anything that forces her to waste spells to escape might be helpful.

[Phelix-Mu]

. Is the force cage idea a good one? I thought that anything that forces her to waste spells to escape might be helpful.

I'm not a master of forcecage, but if she doesn't try to get out, how do you plan on killing her? It's her terrain, and short of giving you time to heal up, you need to get at her much more than she needs to get at you.

[Sylthia]

I'm not a master of forcecage, but if she doesn't try to get out, how do you plan on killing her? It's her terrain, and short of giving you time to heal up, you need to get at her much more than she needs to get at you.

One could forcecage her to make killing her minions easier if it comes to that.

[angry_bear]

Is the building unhallowed? If so, cast hallow to cancel the effects. If not, cast hallow to screw over all Undead, and evil characters. Both hallow and unhallow are divine; and by the sound of the Necromancer, it's likely too paranoid to allow a higher level cleric around. Although I'm not sure what Dracoliches are capable of, I've never actually checked out their in game stats.

At this point all the undead have been mindless, or semi mindless right? Check your wizard's spell list, if he has command undead, have him take over the biggest goon near the Lich and have it start grappling it. Grappling is your friend, it royally screws over nearly any caster not ready for it. And it's a wizard lich, it won't have a very good grapple, which means you can tie it up for a decent amount of time. Also make sure to have a delayed fireball set to go off as well. I'm pretty sure that the grapple will shutdown it's chance at a reflex save right? Another option is, since you can still dimension door, when it's being grappled, have the druid and cleric pop up right beside it, and cast Heal. At that level it'll deal what, 130 damage a piece? The Lich gets a fort save, and has decent spell resistance, but you'll probably be able to hit it with both castings.

These are just a few ideas off the top of my head, and other members will probably be able to build, or re-purpose some of what I just wrote. Still, it's a decent enough jumping off point if your party is dedicated to taking out this Lich.

[Bane 000]

Is the building unhallowed? If so, cast hallow to cancel the effects. If not, cast hallow to screw over all Undead, and evil characters. Both hallow and unhallow are divine; and by the sound of the Necromancer, it's likely too paranoid to allow a higher level cleric around. Although I'm not sure what Dracoliches are capable of, I've never actually checked out their in game stats.

At this point all the undead have been mindless, or semi mindless right? Check your wizard's spell list, if he has command undead, have him take over the biggest goon near the Lich and have it start grappling it. Grappling is your friend, it royally screws over nearly any caster not ready for it. And it's a wizard lich, it won't have a very good grapple, which means you can tie it up for a decent amount of time. Also make sure to have a delayed fireball set to go off as well. I'm pretty sure that the grapple will shutdown it's chance at a reflex save right? Another option is, since you can still dimension door, when it's being grappled, have the druid and cleric pop up right beside it, and cast Heal. At that level it'll deal what, 130 damage a piece? The Lich gets a fort save, and has decent spell resistance, but you'll probably be able to hit it with both castings.

These are just a few ideas off the top of my head, and other members will probably be able to build, or re-purpose some of what I just wrote. Still, it's a decent enough jumping off point if your party is dedicated to taking out this Lich.

Very good ideas by the way. The building is immune to hallowing but our weretiger is a grappling machine. That in conjunction with a heal from the cleric plus other characters beating on her might mean success with a little luck and some initiative. By the way it started with mindless undead but in the cathedral we have been fighting intelligent undead and aberrations from pathfinders as well. Many have at least mid level casting ability but one may assume that every one of these that we take down will not be easy to replace for the necro. Hard to say what final battle will look like.

[Rubik]

Very good ideas by the way. The building is immune to hallowing but our weretiger is a grappling machine. That in conjunction with a heal from the cleric plus other characters beating on her might mean success with a little luck and some initiative. By the way it started with mindless undead but in the cathedral we have been fighting intelligent undead and aberrations from pathfinders as well. Many have at least mid level casting ability but one may assume that every one of these that we take down will not be easy to replace for the necro. Hard to say what final battle will look like.The weretiger should only grapple the lich if he's immune to paralysis. Otherwise, he's toast.

[Phelix-Mu]

Be careful with the heal tactic if you aren't 100% that the necromancer is undead. Make sure to prepare multiple versions of the spell or make scrolls (if possible), as a smart lich would have access to counters for heal (UMD and access to harm scrolls). If you can maintain the grapple, this may help, but the lich may have access to freedom of movement, too, so I'd avoid pinning hopes entirely on grapple.

[Bane 000]

I'm not a master of forcecage, but if she doesn't try to get out, how do you plan on killing her? It's her terrain, and short of giving you time to heal up, you need to get at her much more than she needs to get at you.

Very true but if I can position our guys around the force cage prepped to ruin her day then that is to my advantage in general. Also the action economy means that unless she has some quickened dimension doors (a level 7 or 8 spell slot) she is likely to be unable to do anything but waste a turn teleporting elsewhere while my seven party members are able to act in concert to handle her or draw attention of minions.

Every turn without a timestop occurring is a win for me. In addition if she timestops while inside of the cage it would be one turn for the timestop, another to teleport out or destroy the cage, which means less options in general. It would be funny if the necro forgot to cast fly and I get to use reverse gravity on her. I'm not betting on it though. There are some signs that the necro might be mentally unstable so perhaps that might make a difference in the battle.

[Bane 000]

Be careful with the heal tactic if you aren't 100% that the necromancer is undead. Make sure to prepare multiple versions of the spell or make scrolls (if possible), as a smart lich would have access to counters for heal (UMD and access to harm scrolls). If you can maintain the grapple, this may help, but the lich may have access to freedom of movement, too, so I'd avoid pinning hopes entirely on grapple.

Should be able to knowledge check whether or not the enemy is undead or not. Its worked in the past. What I am worried about is the idea that this necro could be some kind of chaos beast or something. The crazy thing is the variables at play here with a tier 1 enemy means the pitfalls are near endless. Best case scenario is that only some of the party will die and that the rest will prevail and be able to bring back the dead folks. We will use fire seeds to test resistances and buff like crazy.

[Blackhawk748]

i really cant remember what the item is called but im pretty sure there is an item that makes you immune to mind affecting effects, the barbarian should have one

[Rubik]

i really cant remember what the item is called but im pretty sure there is an item that makes you immune to mind affecting effects, the barbarian should have oneA simple Protection From Evil will protect against most of the worst ones. It won't help against Disjunction, but it WILL help against Suggestion, Charm Person (or Monster), and Dominate Person (or Monster). There's a pennant in Heroes of Battle that will grant constant PFE to all allies in a 30' radius, and it only costs 8,000 gp.

[Vultawk]

I had a crazy idea about using the Helm of Brilliance as a bomb, but I'm not sure how that'd work. It sounds fun enough to try in a no-win situation though.

[Mnemnosyne]

Protection from evil is obvious, but sometimes overlooked. Similarly, magic circle against evil. Try to get overlapping protections so a single dispel doesn't get rid of all of them.

I'm not clear whether you have a chance to rest and switch spells or not, but something to keep in mind is that divine casters don't need to rest in order to switch spells - they pray at a specific time of day and that's it, whether they've rested or not. Your cleric and druid may be able to change their spell loadout and/or refresh themselves.

That said, consider planar ally to call in a Trumpet Archon. They get up to 7th level cleric spells, and if it comes with the standard memorized loadout, that means you've got holy word, dictum, and undeath to death on tap. Depending on the HD and type of the minions, one of those spells could at least minimize the amount of enemies you're facing, even if it still means you've got a powerful necromancer lich to fight. If you've got a bead of karma and some other stackable way to boost caster level, you might consider handing them to the archon to crank up his holy word to the highest possible CL. If you can customize the archon's loadout before facing the enemy, even better. That earthquake option mentioned above might be on the table, in that case. Keep in mind most of these spells will only deal with minions, and only if those minions aren't significantly higher level than you, though. If the necromancer has enough minions that can be paralyzed, the archon's trumpet might be useful if you can make your own party immune or arrange the combat in such a way that the archon can affect the enemy without the party being within range.

If anyone has Knowledge: Architecture and Engineering, you might be able to structurally damage the building even without earthquake, so a well-placed disintegrate might bring things down on the enemy's head.

[angry_bear]

They can't summon though. All forms of teleportation are blocked except for dimension door and extremely powerful spells like wish or miracle.

[Bane 000]

They can't summon though. All forms of teleportation are blocked except for dimension door and extremely powerful spells like wish or miracle.

Exactly we were limited as to no summons, binding, etc by the nature of the dungeon itself. We have that one miracle as an escape but in character only the cleric knows that is an option. For whatever reason the cleric chose to withhold that from the party. Character wise we all assume that we are in a do or die situation so that's the plan. I wish there was a way to bring down the cathedral but alas I have no idea where to strike. Based on historical accounts the extreme effects of this demi plane are due to the ritual sacrifice of hundreds if not thousands of sentient humanoids. Their souls remain trapped here providing energy for the negative effects of the cathedral and rumor has it that a demigod of death was ritually killed here as well. What all that information rounds up to is the simple fact that unless we can put those souls to rest somehow we will still have the worst of the saving and skill check weaknesses to contend with. There is a glowing altar by a blood pool in the main area. It glows angrily with negative energy and there is a rift to the plane of chaos on top of it. Presumably sealing it might allow souls to escape nullifying home field advantage in the process. Again we attempted a disintegrate on the altar and use of greater dispel magic, but no effects were observed. Any ideas there?
Perhaps I can have the cleric use a commune to get some answers but I suspect the DM clever and evil person that he is will force the use of the miracle to bring the cathedral to a even playing field. Then we are still forced to fight the 20th level caster without a trump card but our saves will be normal. That also means that perhaps the planar binding ideas might work. Important to note that on the outside the team will be resurrected by clerical (lol) support within 24 hours of death. Our stuff we have accumulated will be lost of course and that would make me sad. I intended for the miracle to be used to bring our items back with to us after we are resurrected safely at our pimped out fort/town. Oh decisions, decisions.

[Raineh Daze]

Drain the pool of blood? Dilute it with water? Dilute it with excrement? Toss spare change into it like it's a wishing well?

[Bonzai]

Drain the pool of blood? Dilute it with water? Dilute it with excrement? Toss spare change into it like it's a wishing well?

Agreed! First priority should be to cut off the reinforcements. Destroy the portal, and force the Necromancer to expend resources. Hopefully you can level a little in the process and have a more realistic chance.

Second, always have a contingency plan. If D Door works, that is great. When things go south, have a fall back point. Bleed the Necromancer's resources as best you can, and eventually it will go after you personally. Some of the other suggestions listed here will help when that happens.

[Sith_Happens]

You know, "rift to the plane of chaos" sounds suspiciously like "way out" to me.

[Bane 000]

You know, "rift to the plane of chaos" sounds suspiciously like "way out" to me.

The thought had occurred to me as well, as had the thought that it could be soul rending death or at the very least some sort of creepy hentai fanboy fantasy come true (you know what kind). Might be something to ask in the clerics commune or gather information about. A dragon-type creature rose from the blood the previous session. Incidentally I had thought of washing it away with the cleric's help. Anything to weaken the supply of monsters/souls.

[Rubik]

Knowledge (Arcana) and (The Planes) rolls would appear to be called for here.