CR of Martial Class Enemies

[Sylthia]

I've been running a PF campaign, but the same sort of thing applies to 3.5. At what point do enemy NPC humanoid martial classes branch under casters for purposes of CR calculations. For enemies with no exceptional gear, I've been using the CR=Class level-2 or CR=NPC Class level-3, so a Lv8 Fighter would be CR 6, and a Lv8 Warrior would be CR 5.

The party range is now level 7-9 with 2 clerics, a ranger, a druid, a paladin, and a rogue, with the last two not always there. The calculation has worked pretty well so far, but I'm thinking that soon, I might have to adjust that calculation.

[Chronos]

Under the RAW, there is no such branching: Something with class levels and no RHD has CR = character level. In actual practice, it depends too much on the tactics of your party and of the encounters you throw at them to be able to give a general answer.

[ArcturusV]

Pretty much. It depends far too much on builds, location, tactics, etc, to really say. The calculation probably works best for MMO Mob enemies and Dumb AI Enemies.

If you had something like an "equal" fight of CR-3 Warriors against your party, that were fighting smart though? They could stand a real good chance of decimating you far more than your adjusted CR would suggest. Depending of course on particulars I don't know.

[Sylthia]

I forget where I read it, but I read that in Pathfinder CR=Class level-1 if they have level appropriate gear and -2 if they don't, -3 if it's an NPC class, although only Adepts and Warriors really do much in combat.

Like I said the calculation's worked pretty well so far, though the enemy martial characters usually have some magical support. My current campaign is pretty undead and humanoid with class/NPC class levels heavy. CR isn't an exact science, but it's a good general guideline. A CR 8 has a wide potential challenge range, but is going to be harder on average than a CR 6 encounter.

[137beth]

Even for casters, NPCs following the official rules will eventually be much, much less powerful than their official CR would indicate, simply because so much of high level characters' power comes from items.
It's a bit more work, but I usually recommend doing a little play-testing with some encounters with NPCs, using your player's character sheets. It will give you a much, much better sense of power than any CR guidelines ever will.

[Flickerdart]

It shouldn't be a flat modifier. A 1st level Fighter is more than a match for many other 1st level characters if built well, while a 20th level Fighter without wealth is no threat to anything near that level.

[Sylthia]

It shouldn't be a flat modifier. A 1st level Fighter is more than a match for many other 1st level characters if built well, while a 20th level Fighter without wealth is no threat to anything near that level.

Yeah, I will likely shift it to CR-3/-4 soon, and the martials usually have a spellcaster to supply them with any magical buffs necessary to prevent them from being irrelevant.

[Runestar]

Try cr=2/3 of class levels (for martial classes), with gear appropriate for an npc of the new cr.

So a human fighter12 would be cr8 (with gear for a cr8 npc), roughly in line with a frost giant.

[Sylthia]

Try cr=2/3 of class levels (for martial classes), with gear appropriate for an npc of the new cr.

So a human fighter12 would be cr8 (with gear for a cr8 npc), roughly in line with a frost giant.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll give it a try.