Question about Slam attacks?

[IIzak]

My question is, how exactly is a slam attack defined for a humanoid character. Like if someone gains access to a slam attack, what specific part of their body is used to do the attacking? is it their fists? or are fists considered a separate attack? if fists are considered a separate attack, then can u use a fist and then use a slam as a second attack?

[Flickerdart]

When you have one slam attack, you're using your body (and can attack with weapons too). When you have two, you're using your arms ("Large creatures with arms or arm-like limbs can make a slam attack with each arm"), and so can't use weapons.

[IIzak]

When you have one slam attack, you're using your body (and can attack with weapons too). When you have two, you're using your arms ("Large creatures with arms or arm-like limbs can make a slam attack with each arm"), and so can't use weapons.

Ok so lets say I'm playing a warforged fighter. I automatically get a single slam attack. Lets say i decide to fight with my fists. Would I be able to get an attack with my fists and then follow it up with a slam attack?

[Flickerdart]

Yes. You would get your normal routine of unarmed strikes, and then one slam as a secondary natural attack (-5 to-hit and only 1/2 STR to damage).

[IIzak]

Okay, thank you for clearing that up. My friend wants to play a warforged fighter that beats stuff up with his fists and we didn't know how the slam attack would work. So once he hits the correct level he's gna be attacking like ten to twelve times in a round lol.

[Flickerdart]

That is unlikely - the slam attack is not an iterative attack. You just get one. So at 20 BAB, his attack routine would look like this: Unarmed Strike +20/15/10/5, Slam +15.

[IIzak]

there are other factors that go into it, (two weapon fighting, greater two weapon fighting, two weapon mastery, and theres a magic item he's gna use to get a bite attack and theres something else im forgetting) so at lvl 20 he's basically going to go:

fist(R), fist(R), fist(R), fist(R), fist(L), fist(L), fist(L), fist(L), slam, bite for ten attacks in one round. and he's gna take feats to make the attacks viable, like weapon focus/specialization w/ fists, and hes gna enchant his fists bc he's a warforged and can do that, so every fist is gna be a magic weapon, then he can take stuff like attune magic weapon (which i think stacks with weapon focus/specialization, but im not sure i could be wrong) and its kind of just a basic fighter build but with an interesting twist

[Devronq]

Does this meant that if for example i have 3 secondary attacks like a bite and 2 slams that with 16bab i now have 7 attacks? like 16/11/6/1 and 11/11/11?

[IIzak]

Does this meant that if for example i have 3 secondary attacks like a bite and 2 slams that with 16bab i now have 7 attacks? like 16/11/6/1 and 11/11/11?

Unfortunately no, bc if you have two slams then you're using your fists to do the slamming, so no fist attacks for you. if you had a slam, a bite, and a tail as your secondary attacks, i think it would work, see here

"When you have one slam attack, you're using your body (and can attack with weapons too). When you have two, you're using your arms ("Large creatures with arms or arm-like limbs can make a slam attack with each arm"), and so can't use weapons." -flickerdart

hopefully that helps?

[Devronq]

Thats clear ok thank you.

[TuggyNE]

there are other factors that go into it, (two weapon fighting, greater two weapon fighting, two weapon mastery, and theres a magic item he's gna use to get a bite attack and theres something else im forgetting) so at lvl 20 he's basically going to go:

fist(R), fist(R), fist(R), fist(R), fist(L), fist(L), fist(L), fist(L), slam, bite for ten attacks in one round. and he's gna take feats to make the attacks viable, like weapon focus/specialization w/ fists, and hes gna enchant his fists bc he's a warforged and can do that, so every fist is gna be a magic weapon, then he can take stuff like attune magic weapon (which i think stacks with weapon focus/specialization, but im not sure i could be wrong) and its kind of just a basic fighter build but with an interesting twist

Sadly, an unarmed strike is only one weapon; you can't TWF it with itself. Adding in some other one-handed weapon would do the job though.

[supermonkeyjoe]

Thankfully the warforged have the option of the Battlefist component, so battlefist as the main hand attack, unarmed strike as the offhand attack.

Slams are specified as being a strike with an appendage so no reason that a warforged couldn't slam attack with their leg.

[Namfuak]

When you have one slam attack, you're using your body (and can attack with weapons too). When you have two, you're using your arms ("Large creatures with arms or arm-like limbs can make a slam attack with each arm"), and so can't use weapons.

While the rule that natural attacks cannot be used in conjunction with weapons in the same area of the body is implied by monster statblocks, it is never explicitly stated. So, if the OP's DM was willing to overlook it, or justify it like what supermonkeyjoe suggested, it might work.

EDIT: This was meant to be a reply to Ilzak's last comment.

[Darrin]

When you have one slam attack, you're using your body (and can attack with weapons too). When you have two, you're using your arms ("Large creatures with arms or arm-like limbs can make a slam attack with each arm"), and so can't use weapons.

So, people are actually using this rule? Cool! (I feel like I accomplished something.)

Note to IIzak: This "one slam good, two slams bad" is a simplified house rule designed to cut down on confusion and speed up play. The actual Rules As Written (RAW) on slam attacks are unclear and confusing. There's no indication in the rules on what happens to a Warforged's slam attack when he's doing something else with his arms.

If a Warforged takes the Second Slam feat (Races of Eberron p. 120), then he can still get two slams even while doing something else with his arms. Think of this as "one slam that you get to attack with twice" rather than "two slams = on slam with each arm". At least, that's how I interpret things.

You can also add a secondary bite attack by taking the Jaws of Death feat (Races of Eberron p. 119).


Sadly, an unarmed strike is only one weapon; you can't TWF it with itself. Adding in some other one-handed weapon would do the job though.

Not all DMs treat it that way. If your DM is of the "multiple striking surfaces" school of thought, he may allow unarmed strikes to be both primary and offhand at the same time.

If not, then ask your DM if you can add armor spikes to a Warforged's composite plating. This gives you a light offhand weapon you can use for TWF if need be. Otherwise, a dip into Warforged Juggernaut lets you grow adamantine armor spikes, or try using a light spiked shield for offhand attacks.


Thankfully the warforged have the option of the Battlefist component, so battlefist as the main hand attack, unarmed strike as the offhand attack.


The battlefist rules are really, really confusing. There are two different effects, depending on whether you are a Warforged with monk levels. If you're not a Warforged monk, then the battlefist just augments your existing slam attack. It doesn't actually let you attack with it as a separate weapon. Even with a battlefist mounted, your slam still has to follow the normal rules for natural weapons: only one attack per turn, -5 attack penalty and 1/2 Str bonus if you're using it as a secondary attack.

A warforged monk "who uses a battlefist" gets the increased slam damage, and an additional effect: his unarmed strike damage increases as if he were one size larger.

What's not clear is what happens to your slam/unarmed damage if your battlefist is busy doing something else, like holding a weapon/torch, making an unarmed strike, holding a shield, etc. By RAW, the first effect that increases your slam damage happens regardless of what you're doing with the battlefist, which may seem a bit counter-intuitive to some if you're not actually attacking with your battlefist.

For warforged monks, it all boils down to what was meant by "uses": did the designer mean "use as a weapon attack" or "use as in just wearing a battlefist as part of your body". There's no RAW indication of how exactly you attack with a battlefist (Is it the same as your slam attack? Is it an unarmed strike and thus not a slam? Is it similar to a manufactured weapon, like a spiked gauntlet?). For this, the only way I can interpret this is to go to the dictionary definition of "use", and since you can presumably use a battlefist for activities other than weapon attacks, I must conclude that "uses a battlefist" means you're wearing it as part of your body, using it for balance, manipulating objects, quaffing potions, blocks/holds/etc. (Actually, this may be a bit of an overreach, as there's no indication by RAW that battlefists can manipulate objects... although there's also no indication that they can't.)

There are also two other ways to mount a battlefist: the Mighty Arms graft (Faiths of Eberron p. 158) and the Renegate Mastermaker PrC (Magic of Eberron p. 80). For Mighty Arms, the rules imply that this slam is indeed made with an arm: "You can make a slam attack while wielding a weapon in the other hand, in which case it is treated as a secondary attack (–5 penalty on attack roll)." So it looks like to use that slam, you need to keep at least one arm free.

Renegade Mastermaker replaces your hand with a battlefist, giving you a slam attack. The text here states "you can make a natural slam attack with your battlefist", so that probably means you need to keep that hand free to make your slam attack. At least here it states that the battlefist functions as a normal hand and despite being an oversized spiky gauntlet thing doesn't inconvenience you in any way.

Hmmm. A Warforged with Second Slam gets two slam attacks, and can mount the Mighty Arms graft for a third slam. Add some armor spikes, and you've got: unarmed strike (primary), armor spikes (offhand), slam#1 (secondary), slam #2 (secondary), and second slam#1 (secondary -5). Add Jaws of Death for bite, then Totemist 2 for Girallon Arms (four claw attacks), Double Chakra: Lamia Belt (two more secondary claw attacks), Horned Helm for a gore (MIC), Snap Kick (Tome of Battle)... get the Half-Dragon template on there and that could open up Rapidstrike/Improved Rapidstrike.