Drow Rogue 5/Assassin 3. Need Direction and Review.

[ZethVorador]

Hey guys, so I need a huge favor from you all. This is what I have so far and am pretty steadfast on what I've chosen. What I am looking for is someone to critiqe what I have done so far. Basically just tell me if I have made good choices so far, what would be good options for further levels, what I totally screwed up, What should my next weapon upgrades be, Armor upgrades etc.

My group uses rule that for each ability on the weapon there must be a +1 (Is this right? a +1 bonus for each ability?) Some home rules are applied here and there and custom things done.

My group right now consists of a swashbuckler, beguiler, bard, scout, Ranger, fighter.

PS. If anyone feels like being super awesome you could calculate my total gold for all Items although I am aware that's a super huge feat.

I always see such amazing things from these forums so I am super excited to see what you guys have for me.


Phae’Loth Baenre “Agent of the house”

Name: Phae’Loth Baenre
Race: Drow
Class: Level 5 Rogue. Level 3 Assassin. See Notes.
Speed: 30 Ft
Size: Medium
Languages: Common, Elven, Undercommon, Drow Sign, Draconic, Abyssal, Goblin
Alignment: Neutral Evil
Religion: Lolth

Strength-14 (+2)
Dexterity-20 (+5)
Constitution-13 (+1)
Intelligence-19 (+4)
Wisdom-13 (+1)
Charism-13 (+1)

Fortitude saves: +3
Reflex save: +12
Will save: +7
Initiative: +5 (Dex)

Gold: 23 Gold, 10 Silver, 100 Copper

Carrying Capacity: Light: 58lb, Medium: 59-116lb, Heavy: 117-175lb.
Currently Carrying- 56Lb (15 Armor, 10 Weapons, 31 Gear)

HP:36

AC: 20 (10+4 Armor+0 Shield+5 Dex+0 Size+0 Natural+1 Misc (Deflection))
Spell Failure: 5%
Armor Check Penalty: 0
Spell Resistance: 11 + Character Level

Base Attack Bonus: +5

Racial Traits: Immune To Magic Sleep Effects, Darkvision 120', Spell Resistance 11+CL, +2 Will save vs mind affecting Spells, Racial Proficiencies, Racial Skill bonuses, Racial Spells, Find hidden doors, Light blindness.

Class Traits: Sneak Attack 5D6, Trap Finding, Penetrating Strike, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Death Attack, Poison Use, +1 Save vs Poisons and Assassin Spells

Armor: 15 Lb
+1 Muffled Twisted Silk
+4 AC, Max Dex (+7), AC Penalty (0), Spell Failure (5%), Speed (30 Ft), 15 Lb, +2 to move Silently.

Weapons Equipped: 10 Lb

+1 Keen Elven Thin Blade With Wand Chamber-
(Attack +10+2 (flat footed), Damage 1D8+1+2+2 (flat footed))
Draw as free action, Can activate loaded wand without dropping weapon.
1D8+1, 15-20/x2, 3 Lb, Piercing. Least Crystal of Return.
Houserule-Weapon Finesse Applies to this sword.

+1 Hand Crossbow- (Attack +10+2 (flat footed), Damage 1D4+1+2 (flat footed))
Draw as free action, Counts as TWF when in off hand and doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity.
1D4+1, 19-20/x2, 2 Lb, 30 Ft, Piercing. Least Crystal of Return.

Hand Crossbow Blade- (Attack +10+2 (flat footed), Damage 1D4+2+2 (flat footed))
1D4, 19-20/x2, 2 Lb, Slashing/Piercing.

Elbow Blade- (Attack +10+2 (flat footed), Damage 1D4+2+2 (flat footed))
1D4, 20/x3, 2 Lb, Piercing.

Collapsible Baton- (Attack +7+2 (flat footed), Damage 1D4+2+2 (flat footed))
1D6, 20/x2, 2 Lb, Bludgeoning.

2 Garrotes- (Spot check neck armor before attack, Leather and Wire)
1D8, 18-20/x2, 1 Lb, Slashing. (See Song & Silence or DR 316 for garrote attack rules)

Sneak Attack Damage-5D6+Character Level and Re-Roll 1’s

Gear: 12LB (Rest in pack)
2 Sundark goggles, 100 Ft spiderwire, key making set, 2 wax impression blocks, smugglers belt, infiltration outfit, masterwork thieves tools, 5 parchment, pen & ink, scroll case, sealing wax, hammer, 5 pitons, whetstone, signet ring, signal whistle, manacles, tracing dust, 3 tracing vellum, spider harness, eternal wand of grease, eternal wand of expeditious retreat, masterwork flute, disguise kit, Glass cutter, 100 Bolts, 10 bags of marbles.

Special Gear: 6 Lb (Rest in pack)
1 Grapple Bolts
100' strong rope attached to bolt with grappling hook on end, 2Lb.
6 Serpent Tongue Bolt
Does slashing and piercing damage against objects with less then 5 hardness (IE-Rope).
4 Shadow Haze Dust
10' grenade weapon, all creatures receive -6 on spot for 1 hour or until eyes flushed.
2 Ghost Oil
Weapon is treated as ghost touch.
4 Vials Drow Poison
Injury, DC 13, Initial- Unconscious 1 Minute, Secondary- Unconscious 1D3 Hours.

Proficiency: Simple Weapons, Hand Crossbow, Rapier, Sap, Short Sword, Light Armor, Any Dagger, Dart, Shortbow, Composite Shortbow and Elven Thin Blade.

Feats:
Versatile Fighter-Whenever you are armed with a rapier in your primary hand and a hand crossbow in your off hand, you are treated as having the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for the purpose of calculating attack penalties.
In addition, you do not provoke attacks of opportunity from adjacent opponents when you make ranged attacks with a hand crossbow.

Weapon Finesse- You may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls.

Weapon Proficiency Elven Thinblade- Gain Proficiency with chosen weapon.

Craven- You take a +2 on saving throws against fear effects. Plus, when making a sneak attack, you deal an extra 1 point of damage per character level.

Wanted Feats: Improved Initiative and Rapid Reload, Darkstalker, Maiming Strike,
Potential Feats:Shot on the Run, Mobility, Dodge, Point Blank Shot,

Skills:
132 Ranks Total, Max Ranks 10, Max Cross Class Ranks 5.

Spells: 3 1st Level and 2 2nd level spells per day
Darkness, Faerie Fire and Dancing Lights 1/day at CL-Racial
Grease-2/day-Wand
Expeditious Retreat-2/day-Wand

Shadow Double (Drow of the Underdark)
Stupor (Book of Vile Darkness)
Death Grimace (Book of Vile Darkness)-
Wraithstrike (Complete Adventurer)
Iceknife (Complete Arcane)

Magc Items-13Lb (Rest in Pack)

Hewards Handy Haversack-2000
Description: Holds 120 Lb worth of gear and always weighs 5Lb

Vanisher's Cowl
Price(Item Level): 2500 Gold(7th Level)
Body Slot: Head
Caster Level: 3rd
Aura: Faint (DC 16 Illusion)
Activation: Standard (Mental)
Weight: 1 Lb

Description: This cowl is made out of a single piece of gray silk.

A Vanisher's Cowl allows you and nearby allies to briefly disappear from sight. A cowl has 3 charges, what are renewed each day at dawn. Spending 1 or more charges turns you (and perhaps one or more allies) invisible, as the invisibility spell for 1 or more rounds.

1 charge: You become invisible for 4 rounds.
2 charges: You and on adjacent ally become invisible for 3 rounds.
3 charges: You and up to three adjacent allies become invisible for 2 rounds.

Shadow Cloak
Price(Item Level): 5500 Gold(10th Level)
Body Slot: Shoulders
Caster Level: 12th
Aura: Moderate (DC 21 Conjuration, Illusion)
Activation: None And Immediate (Command)
Weight: 1 Lb

Description: This black cloak writhes as if it were alive and seems to eat the light.

A Shadow Cloak grants a +1 deflection bonus to AC. If you are attacked, you can use the cloak three times per day to produce one or the other of the following effects. You can gain concealment for 1 round, or you can teleport to a space you can see clearly up to 10 feet in any direction.

Bracers Of Murder
Price(Item Level): 8000 Gold(11th Level)
Body Slot: Arms
Caster Level: 5th
Aura: Faint (DC 17 Evocation)
Activation: None
Weight: 3 Lb

Description: Each of these black leather bracers is adorned with a single grinning skulls set with onyx stones for eyes.

Bracers of Murder grant a +2 profane bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls against flat footed targets. If you have the death attack ability, the save DC to resist your death attack increases by 2. If you have sneak attack or sudden strike, re-roll any result of 1 on the dice.

Dimension Strider Boots
Price(Item Level): 2000 Gold(6th Level)
Body Slot: Feet
Caster Level: 7th
Aura: Faint (DC 16 Conjuration)
Activation: None And Standard (Command)
Weight: 1 Lb

Description: These sleek black leather boots pull slightly forward as though constantly wanting to move.

While wearing Dimension Strider Boots, you gain a +2 competence bonus on jump checks, this is a continuous effect and requires no activation. In addition, the boots have 5 charges which are renewed each day at dawn. Spending 1 or more of the charges allows you to teleport a short distance with no chance of failure. Can teleport up to maximum load but not another creature.
1 charge: 20 feet
3 charges: 40 feet
5 charges: 60 feet

Belt of Disguise Self-2500
Activation: None
Body Slot: Waist
Weight: 1 Lb

Description: This black leather belt has a theatre mask for a buckle with a constantly changing expression on the mask.

Use spell Disguise self at will

Blessed Bandage(10), Ever Full Mug(200), Everlasting Rations(350)=560

Next Spell choices
2nd level- Spider Climb(DMG), Animate Weapon( CM)
3rd Level- Fangs of the Vampire King( LM), Sadism( BVD), Vital Strike( CM), Modify Memory(DMG)
4th Level- Unseen Strike (CM), Mordenkainen's Trust Bloodhound (CM), Heart Ripper (CA), Death Sight (CM)
Wanted Spells-Cloud of Knives, Whirling Blades.

Skill Tricks
Listen to This
Second Impression
Twisted Charge
Wall Jumper

Wanted Skill Tricks: Hidden Blade, Acrobatic Backstab

Notes-
Sundark goggles-Races of the dragon
Spiderwire, key making set, wax impression blocks, smugglers belt, infiltration outfit, tracing dust, tracing vellum and spider harness-Dragon Magazine 316
Penetrating Strike- Cause half sneak attack damage to creatures immune to sneak attacks, Dungeonscape Pg 13)
Level Adjustment- Paid off the XP amount required meaning I will likely always be a level behind the group.

[Gwendol]

Looks like a solid build, but your HP is low for your level while your INT is unnecessary high. I recommend fitting a level of shadowdancer in there to gain hide in plain sight, since that will be of great benefit.

[Feint's End]

If you really want to go for a quick build probably swap out the bracers for a warning spiked gauntlet +1 (8305 gold) for +5 to initiative

[T.G. Oskar]

I recommend fitting a level of shadowdancer in there to gain hide in plain sight, since that will be of great benefit.

The Assassin gains Hide in Plain Sight at 8th level, merely 5 levels later if the OP intends to remain in the class. Shadowdancer would merely grant it 4 levels earlier.

IMO, the Ambush feats in Drow of the Underdark are incredibly good. Sickening Strike is an awesome debuff that requires no save, and Venomous Strike makes poisons harder to resist. Mix that with Aleval School (a Weapon Style feat that reduces any save by 2), and you can impose a -4 penalty on saves. With a Con-damaging poison, apply the penalty from Aleval School to Fortitude, and the target will have a -4 penalty to Fortitude saves against a poison with a DC 2 points higher. If you make a Death Attack, you can take advantage of "order of operations" and apply the penalty from Sickening Strike first, then the one from Aleval School, then apply the poison for the Con damage, and THEN the Death Attack. Even if you're not aiming to poison an opponent or making a Death Attack, it imposes a -4 penalty on saving throws; your Bard and Beguiler will LOVE you, and they might help you further (Crushing Despair, for example?).

If you're only gonna focus on Versatile Combatant (and thus hand crossbows), Hand Crossbow Focus is great. It's basically Weapon Focus (hand crossbow) and Rapid Reload in a single feat. If you're aiming to use other crossbows, then keep Rapid Reload.

As for the Elven Thinblade: how much in love you are with that weapon? It's basically a rapier, but one that deals 1d8 instead of 1d6. That's mostly a +1 boost to damage for the cost of a feat: Weapon Specialization (rapier) adds more damage, and it's still not the best feat. That helps by dropping a feat; otherwise, you might want to consider Improved Weapon Familiarity instead of Exotic Weapon Proficiency, as drow are still considered elves. Ask your DM if he helps you replace the feat; that way, you can get the elven lightblade, thinblade and courtblade for the cost of one feat. You'll need to wait for it later on. Another thing to point out: Elven Thinblade already allows you to apply Dex to attack rolls with the Weapon Finesse feat; that's not necessarily a houserule. If for some fortune you get access to Eberron books, Improved Weapon Familiarity nets you the Drow Long Knife and the Drow Scorpion Chain, which are amazing weapons. Keep an eye on them.

As for potential feats: ignore the Shot on the Run feat, and also Mobility. You'll hardly have any feats to fit them up. Which reminds me: have you considered dipping 1 level of Fighter and apply the Drow Fighter substitution level? That nets you +2 to initiative and the ability to add your Dex modifier to damage rolls when attacking flat-footed opponents. This applies to all attacks, including those from hand crossbow shots. Otherwise, you'd have to spend THREE feats for Martial Study (any Shadow Hand maneuver, but most likely Child of Shadow or perhaps Shadow Jaunt), Shadow Blade (to add Dex to finessable weapons) and Crossbow Sniper (from Player's Handbook II, to add half your Dex modifier to damage rolls). Also: any particular reason why to apply Maiming Strike? It's only 1 point of Charisma damage per strike; you need about 2-3 rounds and multiple successful attacks to allow enough Charisma damage to disable an opponent (which is the only reason I believe you'd use the feat in any case).

Item-wise: you're lacking an item for your hands, so might as well consider Gloves of the Balanced Hand. That grants you TWF for free; if you already have TWF, it becomes Improved TWF. While it might not work for Versatile Combatant, if you get an Eternal Wand of Heroics, you can temporarily get TWF and get the Gloves to temporarily grant you ITWF instead. In that way, you can drop two hand crossbows, two rapiers, or an elven thinblade and an off-hand weapon (shortsword, or if you get Imp. Weapon Familiarity to apply for elven lightblade/thinblade/courtblade, you can add an elven lightblade to the mix) and find a reason to exploit Maiming Strike with 4-5 attacks. It might be somewhat redundant, but that covers virtually ALL aspects. I mention an Eternal Wand because it lasts for a long time (even though it only applies for 2 times per day), and you don't need UMD to use it as Heroics is a Sorc/Wiz spell, and hence an arcane spell; Eternal Wands can be used by anyone casting arcane spells, which the Assassin does.

Otherwise...pretty nice build. It really exploits the Drow of the Underdark book, and makes clever use of various abilities: Penetrating Strike for pesky creatures, Craven to further boost your damage, Bracers of Murder for even more potent Death Attacks, Least Crystal of Return for Quick Draw with each weapon... It seems like you researched the build carefully, or had support of a knowledgeable friend. Aside from the feats, it's quite complete.

[Gwendol]

HiPS is so very useful though. But it's possible to get it through the dark template too, without having to take class levels.

[ZethVorador]

IMO, the Ambush feats in Drow of the Underdark are incredibly good. Sickening Strike is an awesome debuff that requires no save, and Venomous Strike makes poisons harder to resist. Mix that with Aleval School (a Weapon Style feat that reduces any save by 2), and you can impose a -4 penalty on saves. With a Con-damaging poison, apply the penalty from Aleval School to Fortitude, and the target will have a -4 penalty to Fortitude saves against a poison with a DC 2 points higher. If you make a Death Attack, you can take advantage of "order of operations" and apply the penalty from Sickening Strike first, then the one from Aleval School, then apply the poison for the Con damage, and THEN the Death Attack. Even if you're not aiming to poison an opponent or making a Death Attack, it imposes a -4 penalty on saving throws.
Sickening Strike looks amazing it'll definitely be next up on my list! If I hit twice a round with SA damage could I stack sickening strike, Venemous Strike and Aleval school for a -6?


If you're only gonna focus on Versatile Combatant (and thus hand crossbows), Hand Crossbow Focus is great. It's basically Weapon Focus (hand crossbow) and Rapid Reload in a single feat. If you're aiming to use other crossbows, then keep Rapid Reload.
Didn't even see this feat and it solves a dilemma I was already having!


As for the Elven Thinblade: how much in love you are with that weapon? It's basically a rapier, but one that deals 1d8 instead of 1d6. That's mostly a +1 boost to damage for the cost of a feat: Weapon Specialization (rapier) adds more damage, and it's still not the best feat. That helps by dropping a feat; otherwise, you might want to consider Improved Weapon Familiarity instead of Exotic Weapon Proficiency, as drow are still considered elves. Ask your DM if he helps you replace the feat; that way, you can get the elven lightblade, thinblade and courtblade for the cost of one feat. You'll need to wait for it later on. Another thing to point out: Elven Thinblade already allows you to apply Dex to attack rolls with the Weapon Finesse feat; that's not necessarily a houserule. If for some fortune you get access to Eberron books, Improved Weapon Familiarity nets you the Drow Long Knife and the Drow Scorpion Chain, which are amazing weapons. Keep an eye on them. I do like the Elven Thinblade if not for it's super effectiveness as for it general effectiveness. Even if a lot of my bonus are defeated I still at least have a 1D8 weapon. If you're a drow and? an elf and wouldn't improved weapon familiarity net me the three elven blades and the drow long knife and chain?


As for potential feats: ignore the Shot on the Run feat, and also Mobility. You'll hardly have any feats to fit them up. Which reminds me: have you considered dipping 1 level of Fighter and apply the Drow Fighter substitution level? That nets you +2 to initiative and the ability to add your Dex modifier to damage rolls when attacking flat-footed opponents. This applies to all attacks, including those from hand crossbow shots. Otherwise, you'd have to spend THREE feats for Martial Study (any Shadow Hand maneuver, but most likely Child of Shadow or perhaps Shadow Jaunt), Shadow Blade (to add Dex to finessable weapons) and Crossbow Sniper (from Player's Handbook II, to add half your Dex modifier to damage rolls). Also: any particular reason why to apply Maiming Strike? It's only 1 point of Charisma damage per strike; you need about 2-3 rounds and multiple successful attacks to allow enough Charisma damage to disable an opponent (which is the only reason I believe you'd use the feat in any case). I will have to look into that RSL for fighter for sure. Maiming strike was more of a filler or option. I hadn't fully dedicated to it yet.


Item-wise: you're lacking an item for your hands, so might as well consider Gloves of the Balanced Hand. That grants you TWF for free; if you already have TWF, it becomes Improved TWF. While it might not work for Versatile Combatant, if you get an Eternal Wand of Heroics, you can temporarily get TWF and get the Gloves to temporarily grant you ITWF instead. In that way, you can drop two hand crossbows, two rapiers, or an elven thinblade and an off-hand weapon (shortsword, or if you get Imp. Weapon Familiarity to apply for elven lightblade/thinblade/courtblade, you can add an elven lightblade to the mix) and find a reason to exploit Maiming Strike with 4-5 attacks. It might be somewhat redundant, but that covers virtually ALL aspects. I mention an Eternal Wand because it lasts for a long time (even though it only applies for 2 times per day), and you don't need UMD to use it as Heroics is a Sorc/Wiz spell, and hence an arcane spell; Eternal Wands can be used by anyone casting arcane spells, which the Assassin does.
TwF should be my bread and butter I know, well I like the gloves idea that's generally handy overall and I think Versatile combatant states you treat the hand crossbow as having TwF so the gloves would give me ITWF which is just a joy.

Overall thanks for the help it definitely gave me the direction I was looking for with some amazing options I hadn't noticed already!

Any Advice for what to do for classes after 15? 5/rogue 10/Assassin then what?

[Gwendol]

I'd pick an INT based casting class. Not sure which this late in the game though.

An alternative could be swasbuckler and go daring outlaw. You have a lot of damage through insightful strike.

[Seharvepernfan]

Looks good to me. What skills are you going to choose?

[ZethVorador]

I'd pick an INT based casting class.

Any suggestions? Psion maybe?

Also just noticed that weapon familiarity moves them from exotic to martial thus still keeping them out of my characters usage sadly.

[Grayson01]

Take Hand Crossbow focus (DOTU) same book as Versatile Fighter it gives you weapon focus with the Hand Cross Bow and Rapid Reload with it for one feat. This way you don't have to take just Rapid Reload. Also DarkSTalker is a Must for any Stealth Charcater. Also look into Telling Blow from the PHB2 you add Sneak Attack Damage on a Crit. So if you Crit while flaking you Deal twice your Sneak Attack.

Edit: Gloves of Murder also from (DOTU) adds Profain Damge to your Sneak attacks and increases your Death Attack DC.

[Fouredged Sword]

Filler for the end of the build should be trapsmith 5. It offers some GREAT casting over 5 levels.

Abjurant Champion 5 may also be an interesting option.

Also, you could go into spellthief for some more spell levels with master spellthief as a feat. It makes your spellthief and assassin levels stack for th caster level of both classes.

[T.G. Oskar]

Sickening Strike looks amazing it'll definitely be next up on my list! If I hit twice a round with SA damage could I stack sickening strike, Venemous Strike and Aleval school for a -6?

Only once per round, but you can apply all at once.

In detail: Sickening Strike adds the sicken condition, so sickening a character twice doesn't stack. Venomous Strike applies only once to a poisoned weapon, and the Aleval School only applies once per round.

That said: you can reduce your SA dice by 3d6 at once to apply all three abilities on the same attack. While you can only apply Aleval School once, Sickening Strike applies to all attacks done during the round.


Also just noticed that weapon familiarity moves them from exotic to martial thus still keeping them out of my characters usage sadly.

If you dip one level of Fighter, you gain proficiency with all martial weapons, so that's not an issue; it only applies later than usual. I was actually worrying about Shadow Blade, as it doesn't apply to all weapons.


If you're a drow and? an elf and wouldn't improved weapon familiarity net me the three elven blades and the drow long knife and chain?

Of course, but the thing is as follows: the drow long knife and the drow scorpion chain are from Eberron, and the choice of deities and surname suggests Faerun. Most DMs might cringe on applying stuff from one campaign setting to another, so it depends on your DM whether it allows them or not.


Any Advice for what to do for classes after 15? 5/rogue 10/Assassin then what?

I insist on the dip on Fighter, in order to gain an extra feat. Also, if you have the chance of somehow getting the Track feat for free, you might consider qualifying for the Dark Hunter PrC and just go Rogue 5/Fighter 1/Assassin 9/Dark Hunter 5. That way, you get an increased DC for Death Attack (you count as if you had 14 levels of Assassin instead of 10, as it's basically the same ability, even if it doesn't explicitly mention how the abilities stack), an extra SA dice, enhanced darkvision and a camouflage-esque ability, alongside full BAB. Finally, instead of Foe Hunter, you can choose to get Uncanny Trickster and advance Assassin, to boost your saving throws against poison, your death attack DC and gain more SA dice (in this case, you can go Rogue 5/Assassin 3/Fighter 2/Assassin +8/Uncanny Trickster 3).

[Saintheart]

If you're serious about using the Death Attack feature of the Assassin, then the ambush feats out of DoTU combined with poisons make for amazing results, because Death Attack kicks in after Sickening/Terrifying/etc Strike debuffs the enemy's saves, and Death Attack only allows a Fort save against it. If you've already used poisons, etc, to knock down a target's Fort save...

Death Attack has the drawback of 3 rounds of study time, of course, which is why you should consider trying to get your hands on a half-used-up Wand of Deathsight (Complete Mage) to cut the expense down. Fourth level spell, but it's on your spell list as an assassin, so you don't even need to UMD it if it's in a Wand. Deathsight allows you to make the death attack without 3 rounds of study (still costs a standard action to do).

[Immabozo]

My group uses rule that for each ability on the weapon there must be a +1 (Is this right? a +1 bonus for each ability?) Some home rules are applied here and there and custom things done.

If it's a house rule, then that's the way it's gonna be. But no, this is not per the D&D rules. Per the rules, the item must be masterwork to be magically enhanced, then +1 before enchantments can be added onto it.

So BAW is a flat +1.

But you cannot have more than an effective +5 and/or a +5 bonus, without the item becoming an epic item.

EDIT:


AC: 20 (10+4 Armor+0 Shield+5 Dex+0 Size+0 Natural+1 Misc (Deflection))

Get a +1 Animated Heavy shield (+3 or 4 equivalent). That's another 4 AC, I think, and it doesn't stop you from using the arm for 2 handed weapon or another weapon.

[Feint's End]

But you cannot have more than an effective +5 and/or a +5 bonus, without the item becoming an epic item.

Get a +1 Animated Heavy shield (+3 or 4 equivalent). That's another 4 AC, I think, and it doesn't stop you from using the arm for 2 handed weapon or another weapon.

The effective bonus can be +10 ... the enhancement bonus can't be higher than +5.

As for the shield -> Say what? No profiency means penalty to hit (except for the times you use a mithralshiel what you probably should do but again ... shieldwielding on an Assassin is unflavourful as ****

[Nightraiderx]

I forget if drow have exoctic weapon prof. but if they do. I do believe there is a clause in Complete warrior that'll allow you switch out one racial weapon proficiency for another. I would say don't bother going all of assassin 10, drop out at level 8/9 and do both the Abjurrant champ and dip into spell thief for the master spellthief feat option.

Finishing out your build with 5 rogue/8 assassin/1spellthief/5 Abjurrant Champ/1 of any other good one dip prestiege class.

Your caster level will be your BAB+Assasin Spell level+Abjurrant Champion level+ spell thf. Which should easily be 20 + for this build.
Also high int means you will be able to get Fairie Mystery Initiate:Passions Feat and add your Int modifier to your HP instead of your Con. I don't know the book where it's from though.

Magic Blooded Template +0 and I'm pretty sure drow have SLA's look into that.

AND ALSO SKILL TRICKS FROM COMPLETE SCOUNDREL. some could prove useful for you.

Given your skill ranks and Int score I also suggest getting Knowledge Devotion so you can get nice bonuses to attack and damage to your attacks against a specific target (being an assassin makes this very thematically appropriate Knowledge(local) works on humanoids)

[ericp65]

All I can say is that this looks like a fantastic character, with much potential...and looks better than my own Assassin Drow character!

What are his backstory and personality?

[Feint's End]

Your caster level will be your BAB+Assasin Spell level+Abjurrant Champion level+ spell thf. Which should easily be 20 + for this build.

How? The Abjurrant Champion cap doesn't increase your casterlevel instead it merely replaces it if your BAB is higher than your caster level.

[ZethVorador]

Only once per round, but you can apply all at once.

In detail: Sickening Strike adds the sicken condition, so sickening a character twice doesn't stack. Venomous Strike applies only once to a poisoned weapon, and the Aleval School only applies once per round.

That said: you can reduce your SA dice by 3d6 at once to apply all three abilities on the same attack. While you can only apply Aleval School once, Sickening Strike applies to all attacks done during the round.



If you dip one level of Fighter, you gain proficiency with all martial weapons, so that's not an issue; it only applies later than usual. I was actually worrying about Shadow Blade, as it doesn't apply to all weapons.



Of course, but the thing is as follows: the drow long knife and the drow scorpion chain are from Eberron, and the choice of deities and surname suggests Faerun. Most DMs might cringe on applying stuff from one campaign setting to another, so it depends on your DM whether it allows them or not.



I insist on the dip on Fighter, in order to gain an extra feat. Also, if you have the chance of somehow getting the Track feat for free, you might consider qualifying for the Dark Hunter PrC and just go Rogue 5/Fighter 1/Assassin 9/Dark Hunter 5. That way, you get an increased DC for Death Attack (you count as if you had 14 levels of Assassin instead of 10, as it's basically the same ability, even if it doesn't explicitly mention how the abilities stack), an extra SA dice, enhanced darkvision and a camouflage-esque ability, alongside full BAB. Finally, instead of Foe Hunter, you can choose to get Uncanny Trickster and advance Assassin, to boost your saving throws against poison, your death attack DC and gain more SA dice (in this case, you can go Rogue 5/Assassin 3/Fighter 2/Assassin +8/Uncanny Trickster 3).

Ahh I see where you are going with this now. Unfortunately due to some players going overboard in the past the ToB has been taking out of our current campaign so most of those options/maneuvers/stances are out the window for me. I'll likely leave the weapons to the elven ones since if I mention wanting both I may get left with just the Drow weapons as a choice. As for Dark Hunter I like the stat's for it but as a story class it wouldn't make make sense story wise or fit too well with my play style for this character. I don't know for sure about the Uncanny trickster either, both are good classes but I don't think they feel 'Clean cut' enough for where I want this character to go. I guess seeing them now I think I am looking for a class that would play well to my characters strengths like Dex and Int (IE accurate, fast, smooth talking and smart). I would likely be more interested in going with a good stealth class or maybe even a caster class that would benefit from a high Int.


If you're serious about using the Death Attack feature of the Assassin, then the ambush feats out of DoTU combined with poisons make for amazing results, because Death Attack kicks in after Sickening/Terrifying/etc Strike debuffs the enemy's saves, and Death Attack only allows a Fort save against it. If you've already used poisons, etc, to knock down a target's Fort save...

Death Attack has the drawback of 3 rounds of study time, of course, which is why you should consider trying to get your hands on a half-used-up Wand of Deathsight (Complete Mage) to cut the expense down. Fourth level spell, but it's on your spell list as an assassin, so you don't even need to UMD it if it's in a Wand. Deathsight allows you to make the death attack without 3 rounds of study (still costs a standard action to do).

Thank's for the advice on stacking their negatives to my positives. Deathsight is amazing I totally missed it altogether and had I continued to miss it that would've been sad.


All I can say is that this looks like a fantastic character, with much potential...and looks better than my own Assassin Drow character!

What are his backstory and personality?

The long version is unnecessarily long lol so we'll do the short. Baenre is actually a pre existing last name from The War of the Spider Queen books which as a Drow fan I've read repeatedly (Not a huge fan of Drizzt). So my character in our world is one of the lords of House Baenre (under females of course), his current goal is to set up more permanent outposts for the Drow on the the surface with which they can execute more continuous and lucrative slave raids further increasing the power of Menzoberranzan. He does so using these groups called 'Adventuring parties' as a means to travel the land and while doing so eliminate specific targets that would hinder house Baenre's expansion efforts should their lives continue. He kinda runs his own story outside the group (one or two solo adventures) that will potentially put me at odds with the group towards the end. The characters don't know of course and what group doesn't love having a skillmonkey who appears amiable?

For personality he's actually quite likeable socially, I play him as more of a happy (albeit slightly cocky) character. He has a lot of the Drow personality traits like he's still taken aback by men not bowing to women, Thinks Drow are superior to all other races, major dislike of Elves. Doesn't leave much to chance, demands a plan, likes showing off when he knows he won't fail. A little pickpocketing here, some small thefts when able that sort of thing. He started off a little awkward but for backstory and personality I am really enjoying the direction he's going in.



Thanks so much to everyone who is replying and helping. This site is amazing as are you guys and I greatly appreciate all of your feedback and suggestions!

[T.G. Oskar]

Ahh I see where you are going with this now. Unfortunately due to some players going overboard in the past the ToB has been taking out of our current campaign so most of those options/maneuvers/stances are out the window for me. I'll likely leave the weapons to the elven ones since if I mention wanting both I may get left with just the Drow weapons as a choice. As for Dark Hunter I like the stat's for it but as a story class it wouldn't make make sense story wise or fit too well with my play style for this character. I don't know for sure about the Uncanny trickster either, both are good classes but I don't think they feel 'Clean cut' enough for where I want this character to go. I guess seeing them now I think I am looking for a class that would play well to my characters strengths like Dex and Int (IE accurate, fast, smooth talking and smart). I would likely be more interested in going with a good stealth class or maybe even a caster class that would benefit from a high Int.

Uncanny Trickster works just fine. Basically, UT has no stringent fluff requirements: you just like to do loads of skill tricks, and this allows you to do so. You already have four skill tricks, so you enter easily. You get three more skill tricks, you get a trick you can use more than once, and you advance Assassin; just refluff it as "getting more levels in Assassin without geting actual levels in Assassin".

Trapsmith is pretty nice, as it nets you loads of spells extremely early on (Haste, for example), but focuses more on the placement (and subsequent disarming) of traps, rather than finishing targets easily and definitely. It might surely work to take out opponents without involving directly.

I can't seem to understand why Dark Hunter wouldn't suit your needs. It thrives on underground places; recall that you'll probably end up in the Underdark once or twice because it's the home of the Drow. Likewise, Stone's Hue is pretty brutal when coupled with your high Hide bonus and Hide on Plain Sight, not to mention that you complement HiPS with another method of easy hiding.

As for Shadow Blade: it's a bit of a shame, but there's no trouble with it, because you'd need three feats (or dipping in Swordsage) to take the feat and it wouldn't work on your Elven Lightblade, so it's a hassle to gain for little to no benefit. You can still attempt for Crossbow Sniper to add some of your Dex to hand crossbow damage (something you'll need if you want your hand crossbows to work), particularly as you can qualify by means of Hand Crossbow Focus.

[Nightraiderx]

How? The Abjurrant Champion cap doesn't increase your casterlevel instead it merely replaces it if your BAB is higher than your caster level.

It's the Master Spellthief feat that would do the heavy lifting after you start with the Base bab. It's because your spellthief and arcane caster levels also stack when determining the level of spells.

So it should be. 1. Abjurrant Champion uses it's BAB to have a spellcaster level = BAB. Then master spell thief applies and adds the spellthief-assassin and abjurrant champion arcane levels on top of it. Although if the benefit of Abjurrant champ applies after Master SpellTheif, then there's no point in doing that, but I may be misunderstanding how the master spelltheif feat would interact with Abjurrant champion's capstone

Either way stealing 8th level spells with your SA is pretty nice.


It's a shame he couldn't take something like daggerspell mage, I like that prestiege it would've mixed well with assassin if they didn't have a non-evil requirement

[Piggy Knowles]

A note about Maiming Strike: it is by far the best ambush feat at higher levels, especially if you have any damage multipliers available.

It's not 1 point of Cha damage, it's one point per +2d6 you sacrifice. That'll be 4 or 5 points per swing by the time you're done, which is quite good. Better yet, because it is flat damage rather than variable damage, it will get multiplied on a crit or with other damage multipliers (and you seem pretty into high crit chance weapons). At high levels, HP will begin to outstrip what your sneak attack can keep up with, but Charisma of enemies stays fairly static in comparison.

Consider a wyrm black dragon (CR 20). 459 HP, but only 18 Cha. You will have a far easier time chipping away at that Cha than at his HP. Plus, doing it that way acts as a nice little debuff, too.

At lower levels? Eh, it's nice to have but you've got to build around it to make it really more effective than standard SA + Craven. But if you drop it, consider picking it up again at high levels.

[ZethVorador]

Ok so after much thought and contemplation I think I do want to dip this character into casting classes outside of Assassin. But since my knowledge base resides primarily with stealth or social classes spellcasting is a little out of my usual area. The thinking behind this is adding another layer of danger essentially. The Assassin spell casting while great (In my opinion I am sure opinions vary) works well but I want to have him cover all areas as much as possible. I spent a decent portion of time reviewing suggested Stealth/Casting classes and now I just want to get the list narrowed down.

Shadowcaster (I have played one or two of these but the campaigns never really went far enough for me to judge full blown effectiveness)

Psion (I have played a fair bit of these guys and really enjoyed them, With no definite choice as of yet this class would likely be my first choice)

Arcane Trickster, Unseen Seer, Abjurent Champion, Duskblade and Duelist (I don't think I have ever played or played with any of these so I don't have much to go off of. The Duelist isn't casting but I guess I am curious what you guys think it would do with my current choices. Thanks for any help in advance.

[Ketiara]

Looks cool! Think I'll send an assassin like this after my players!

Just a small thing I noticed, and I reckon it's a typo. Craven feat is -2 penalty on fear effects not +2 bonus
http://dndtools.eu/feats/champions-of-ruin--27/craven--484/

[ZethVorador]

Looks cool! Think I'll send an assassin like this after my players!

Just a small thing I noticed, and I reckon it's a typo. Craven feat is -2 penalty on fear effects not +2 bonus
http://dndtools.eu/feats/champions-of-ruin--27/craven--484/

Thank You! I think hearing your character will be used to test other players is a pretty high compliment in my opinion so I appreciate it! That's a pretty important note actually thank you!

[gorfnab]

One Assassin build I like is Rogue 3 (Penetrating Strike ACF)/ Monk 2 (Cobra Strike ACF, Invisible Fist ACF)/ Assassin 9/ Telflammar Shadowlord 6

For Shadowcaster look in my sig.

For Unseen Seer and Arcane Trickster look here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1240)

For Duelist, I came up with this awhile ago.


Human or Strongheart Halfling
1. Cobra Strike (UA) Deceptive Strike (PHBII) Monk - Camendine Monk, Combat Expertise, B: Dodge
2. Cobra Strike (UA) Monk - B: Mobility
3. Swashbuckler - Deadly Defense, B: Weapon Finesse
4. Swashbuckler
5. Swashbuckler
6. Thief Acrobat - Combat Reflexes
7. Thief Acrobat
8. Thief Acrobat
9. Thief Acrobat - Einhander
10. Thief Acrobat
11. Warblade
12. Warblade or Duelist - Ironheart Aura
13. Duelist
14. Duelist
15. Duelist - Robilar's Gambit
16. Duelist
17. Duelist
18. Duelist - Stormgaurd Warrior
19. Duelist
20. Duelist

Levels 10 through 12 can be rearranged depending on your needs. The current setup gives you Improved Evasion and Uncanny Dodge at these levels. However if you don't need Improved Evasion take one less level of Thief Acrobat and move the first level of Warblade to level 10. If you don't need Uncanny Dodge don't take the 2nd level of Warblade and instead go into Duelist a level early. If you don't need either abilities take Warblade at level 10 and enter Duelist at level 11.

If flaws are available pick up EWP: Broadblade Shortsword (pre-errata version if possible) or Versatile Unarmed Strike and Snap Kick (may need to rearrange later feats). If traits are available pick up Cautious.

The Monk and Swashbuckler levels (levels 1 through 5) can be switched around to taste. I personally like Swash 1/ Monk 2/ Swash 2


For Duskblade look here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=525.0)

[Nightraiderx]

Teflammar shadowlord is pretty awesome although feat intensive, you can progress/stack your Assassin death attack, you get another quick casting progression and after 4th I believe you can full attack while teleporting. A single dip of swordsage as your final level and I'm pretty sure you can grab both the move action and standard action 50 ft teleports from Shadow hand, but then again you said TOB was banned right?

[ZethVorador]

Teflammar shadowlord is pretty awesome although feat intensive, you can progress/stack your Assassin death attack, you get another quick casting progression and after 4th I believe you can full attack while teleporting. A single dip of swordsage as your final level and I'm pretty sure you can grab both the move action and standard action 50 ft teleports from Shadow hand, but then again you said TOB was banned right?
I very much doubt this is an option for me. So many things would need to be changed. It's a great class but too feat intensive and the stories don't mesh at all. Yeah ToB is out sadly.

[ZethVorador]

Some other interesting classes for which I know little about are Demonbinder, Ebon Saint, Incarnum Blade, Master of Masks and lurk

[Nightraiderx]

Incarnum Blade is lackluster, not sure about the others.
I wonder if you would get anything out of the elf prestiege Bladesinger

[Fouredged Sword]

Lurk is bad. Master of masks is a dip for a mask you want, then done.

[Grayson01]

In order for him to take Elf Bladeslinger he would have to ether, A: give up the Thinblade or B: talk his DM into let him change the preReq's to Thinblade. He would also have to stop fighting with two-weapons so he would ether be giving up Vers. Fighter or wasting that feat. It is a pretty good idea though I never thought about combing Assassin and Bladesinger I might have to look into that myself.


Incarnum Blade is lackluster, not sure about the others.
I wonder if you would get anything out of the elf prestiege Bladesinger

[ZethVorador]

In order for him to take Elf Bladeslinger he would have to ether, A: give up the Thinblade or B: talk his DM into let him change the preReq's to Thinblade. He would also have to stop fighting with two-weapons so he would ether be giving up Vers. Fighter or wasting that feat. It is a pretty good idea though I never thought about combing Assassin and Bladesinger I might have to look into that myself.

Yeah it feels like I'd be trading a little to much of the current character for Bladesinger but I do agree that Assassin/Bladesinger would be cool