Arcane Preperation and Ultimate Magus

[Erik Vale]

A thought [I'm not sure if new or not] about the above class and feat.

Arcane Preperation allows spontainous casters [such as sorcerers] to prepare spells ahead of time.

To qualify for Ultimate Magus, you must have a class that prepares spells ahead of time [check, using said feat I prepare spells ahead of time], and have a class that casts spontainously [I leave slots open, and cast using those slots spontaneously, because I'm a sorcerer]. Using said logic [see brackets], you should be able to advance your sorcerer casting twice some levels, by the end of the 10 levels assuming access as soon as you can [level 4], this means by level 14 you can cast as a level 21 Sorcerer [Epic pre-epic]. Given the lack of class features outside of casting for sorcerers, their ability to trade spells in for new spells at higher level meaning getting two identicle spells known being non-useless, I can't think of a single wasted feature.

So, have I read this right, does this work RAW?
If so, maniacal laughter. Not that a player could ever pull this on a sentient DM.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Reread the requirements of ultimate magus.

It requires a caster that prepares from a spellbook on one side (locking you into wizard, wu-jen, or a work-around that mimics one or the other) and a spontaneous caster on the other.

[Zanos]

This does work as a Wizard with Alacritous Cogitation, however.

[Erik Vale]

So instead of Level 21 casting at level 14 with a CL of 25, you get Level 18 casting at level 11 with CL 22...
I'll put that into the 'when I wan't to break a game' and 'not-quite Tippy optimisation level game' folders... Wizards really can do things better than anybody else. Except paladins.

Edit: Further lol... That comes from within the same book. Excuse me while I laugh for a while.

[Chronos]

Advance your sorcerer casting once. Now, double-check what it is that the class gave you: "+1 to your prepared arcane class": Check, you advanced your prepared class. "+1 to your spontaneous arcane class": Check, you advanced your spontaneous class. OK, you've applied everything the PrC told you to, you don't need to do anything more.

[Fouredged Sword]

Yes, as a DM I would allow this, but I would follow the notion that they don't stack. It is class features for a sorcerer and allows you to apply metamagic to your spells with other spell slots (really cool actually, Persistomancy here we come!), but not fast advancement.

[Nightraiderx]

Magical Training + Arcane Preparation.

Now you have all your bases covered since now you have a lvl 1 wizard spellbook you can buy spells for it and you can use that book in your Arcane preparation spots.

Works well with Sorc/Beguiler or any other spontaneous casting arcane class.

[Emperor Tippy]

This does work as a Wizard with Alacritous Cogitation, however.

No, it doesn't. It doesn't work with any feats because feats do not add class features and do not change what a class is, for that you need alternate class features.


Advance your sorcerer casting once. Now, double-check what it is that the class gave you: "+1 to your prepared arcane class": Check, you advanced your prepared class. "+1 to your spontaneous arcane class": Check, you advanced your spontaneous class. OK, you've applied everything the PrC told you to, you don't need to do anything more.

Different features. The reason that it doesn't work though is that Sorcerer never becomes a prepared arcane casting class.

The only thing this works with is a Spontaneous Divination wizard as Spontaneous Divination is an alternate class feature and thus makes Wizard both a spontaneous and a prepared casting class and thus it gets the double advancement. Now just find a DM that will allow it.

[Nightraiderx]

Fair enough, although with the feats I suggested he can still meet the pre-reqs to enter the class, how would the "+1 spell level to lower spellcasting class" interact with a single classed sorc/spontaneous caster that used the feats to enter the prestiege?

Edit: The feat Magical Training has a clause that says "you can cast these cantrips as a level 1 wizard." Would this clause be influenced by the +1 caster level to prepared arcane class" and if it would how would it interact with the feat?

[Emperor Tippy]

Fair enough, although with the feats I suggested he can still meet the pre-reqs to enter the class, how would the "+1 spell level to lower spellcasting class" interact with a single classed sorc/spontaneous caster that used the feats to enter the prestiege?

Normal advancement. So 10/10.

[Zanos]

Is there RAW for feats not letting you qualify? The spellcasting requirements for UM are:

Spellcasting: Able to spontaneously cast 1st-level arcane
spells, able to prepare and cast 2nd-level arcane spells
from a spellbook.

The text for Alacritous Cogitation says that "You can leave a prepared spell slot open to spontaneously cast a spell." I don't see how this doesn't qualify.

[Waker]

The text for Alacritous Cogitation says that "You can leave a prepared spell slot open to spontaneously cast a spell." I don't see how this doesn't qualify.
I may be misunderstanding, but I don't think he's saying you can't use it to qualify. Rather it's the progression in the table, which specifies "Prepared Arcane Casting Class & Spontaneous Arcane Casting Class". Feats may allow you to spontaneously cast a spell or prepare one, but it doesn't change your class to being a Prepared Arcane Casting class.

[Zanos]

I may be misunderstanding, but I don't think he's saying you can't use it to qualify. Rather it's the progression in the table, which specifies "Prepared Arcane Casting Class & Spontaneous Arcane Casting Class". Feats may allow you to spontaneously cast a spell or prepare one, but it doesn't change your class to being a Prepared Arcane Casting class.
Ah, I see. Reading the progression table/text now I suppose that would just make you a Wizard with gimped casting. Shame.

[Chronos]

Well, it wouldn't gimp your casting, since wizard is still your arcane class with the lowest level. It just wouldn't help all that much (though you'd still get Arcane Spell Power and the metamagic thing).

[Emperor Tippy]

Well, it wouldn't gimp your casting, since wizard is still your arcane class with the lowest level. It just wouldn't help all that much (though you'd still get Arcane Spell Power and the metamagic thing).

Exactly.

It's better than straight wizard but, well, any full casting PrC is pretty much always better than straight wizard.