And if you define death as our spirit being trapped in the afterlife

[Kornaki]

If Belkar had voted not to blow up this gate, V probably wouldn't be chilling in hell right now.

(I make this thread in jest, as I don't believe the oracle was actually making a statement about V's death)

[Cavenskull]

If Belkar had voted not to blow up this gate, V probably wouldn't be chilling in hell right now.

(I make this thread in jest, as I don't believe the oracle was actually making a statement about V's death)
I know you said the thread was made in jest, but I'll toss this out anyway:

Even if Vaarsuvius' current situation counts as "death", it's still way too late to have anything to do with the Oracle's claims that the prophecy had already been fulfilled--unless the Oracle's idea of the past includes events that haven't happened yet.

[DaggerPen]

Ha! I actually thought of that when the comic first came out, and have a feeling that the Oracle would have said just that - while he was mostly listing events that had already happened, this explanation is in line with his other rather lacking explanations, and the Oracle can see the future. Plus, why else would it have been cut off, if it weren't a spoiler for something that was to happen? :P

[Lossoth]

I was thinking about this during an archive binge and it seems that in the Oracle's convoluted reasoning, Belkar caused V to make the deal with the fiends in the first place.

Belkar decided to multiclass to barbarian. Nale spotted Belkar at the barbarian guild while picking up Thog and was alerted to their presence in town. Nale came up with the idea to distract the OOTS by kidnapping the blacksmith and sending them looking for starmetal. Starmetal>young dragon>Ancient Black Dragon>IFCC.

It's quite a stretch, but no more so than the stretch for Miko or Windstriker. The only problem is that Belkar asked "Will I cause...", and he'd already done his part.

[Sunken Valley]

Belkar already killed V. V's death will likely be a result of atoning for the deal and subsequent mass murder. Which wouldn't have happened if Belkar had not split from the party with Haley and Roy's corpse. V's attempts to find the halfling lead him down that path. To his demise.

[King of Nowhere]

Well, I already subscribed to the theory that belkar would end up "causing the death" of all his targets in some convoluted way. That may as well be it

[137beth]

Okay, does that mean we can stop seeing predictions about V's death? Phew:smalltongue:

[Kish]

So optimistic.

[ti'esar]

I concur with the above posts. This may be a joke, but it still makes far more sense in relation to the Oracle's increasingly-shaky definitions of "cause" and "death" then any of the people arguing Belkar will cause the literal death of Vaarsuvius ever will.

[rodneyAnonymous]

No, it doesn't make sense, for a similar reason:


Even if Vaarsuvius' current situation counts as "death", it's still way too late to have anything to do with the Oracle's claims that the prophecy had already been fulfilled--unless the Oracle's idea of the past includes events that haven't happened yet. (emphasis added)

"Your prophecy has already been fulfilled." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html)

All the Oracle's other lame interpretations of "caused the death of" were about things that had already happened. He was trying to get out of (or cause?) being stabbed by Belkar. We have no idea what the Oracle was going to say about Belkar having caused the death of Vaarsuvius, except that it'd probably have been even more far-fetched than the Windstriker (who didn't even die!) explanation. It was worth a shot.

[Holy_Knight]

I still think it was: "and as for the elf, he'll actually cause your death!" or some variation thereof.

[137beth]

No, it doesn't make sense, for a similar reason:



"Your prophecy has already been fulfilled." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html)

All the Oracle's other lame interpretations of "caused the death of" were about things that had already happened. He was trying to get out of (or cause?) being stabbed by Belkar. We have no idea what the Oracle was going to say about Belkar having caused the death of Vaarsuvius, except that it'd probably have been even more far-fetched than the Windstriker (who didn't even die!) explanation. It was worth a shot.
Nope, Belkar had already done his part in causing V's death:smalltongue:


I was thinking about this during an archive binge and it seems that in the Oracle's convoluted reasoning, Belkar caused V to make the deal with the fiends in the first place.

Belkar decided to multiclass to barbarian. Nale spotted Belkar at the barbarian guild while picking up Thog and was alerted to their presence in town. Nale came up with the idea to distract the OOTS by kidnapping the blacksmith and sending them looking for starmetal. Starmetal>young dragon>Ancient Black Dragon>IFCC.

It's quite a stretch, but no more so than the stretch for Miko or Windstriker. The only problem is that Belkar asked "Will I cause...", and he'd already done his part.

[ti'esar]

No, it doesn't make sense, for a similar reason:



"Your prophecy has already been fulfilled." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html)

All the Oracle's other lame interpretations of "caused the death of" were about things that had already happened. He was trying to get out of (or cause?) being stabbed by Belkar. We have no idea what the Oracle was going to say about Belkar having caused the death of Vaarsuvius, except that it'd probably have been even more far-fetched than the Windstriker (who didn't even die!) explanation. It was worth a shot.

As 137ben and Lossoth demonstrate, there's lots of possibilities for arguing that Belkar "caused" V's current situation (me, I'd have gone with him cooking the animal messengers). They're all ridiculous, of course, but the Oracle was already well past that point.

[rodneyAnonymous]

He cooked the animal messengers after he stabbed the Oracle. It would have to be something he does after the prophesy is made, but before the uses the kobold as a temporary dagger repository.

[137beth]

Oooh, how about Belkar "caused" the IFCC deal when
He killed that monk in OtootPCs...
otherwise, he wouldn't have been in the Order, they would have had a non-evil monk as their sixth person, so there would not have been a Mark of Justice, so Haley would have been able to retrieve Roy's body on her own, so she would have been able to move faster (since she has a higher move rate than Belkar), so Haley would have gotten Roy's body back to the boat in time, so Roy would have been raised quickly and V would never have needed to try to beat the cloister, and so V would never have felt he/she needed more arcane power in the first place! Plus he/she wouldn't have separated from the order, so the dragon wouldn't have attacked! So really, the whole thing happened because Belkar had to come along with Haley to get Roy's body:smalltongue:

[ti'esar]

He cooked the animal messengers after he stabbed the Oracle. It would have to be something he does after the prophesy is made, but before the uses the kobold as a temporary dagger repository.

Actually, it was just before. The animal messengers were cooked in 563 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0563.html). The Oracle met his brief demise in 567 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html).

[Sir_Leorik]

I was thinking about this during an archive binge and it seems that in the Oracle's convoluted reasoning, Belkar caused V to make the deal with the fiends in the first place.

Belkar decided to multiclass to barbarian. Nale spotted Belkar at the barbarian guild while picking up Thog and was alerted to their presence in town. Nale came up with the idea to distract the OOTS by kidnapping the blacksmith and sending them looking for starmetal. Starmetal>young dragon>Ancient Black Dragon>IFCC.

It's quite a stretch, but no more so than the stretch for Miko or Windstriker. The only problem is that Belkar asked "Will I cause...", and he'd already done his part.

Wow. And I thought my theory, that Belkar cooking the three birds V was using for "Vaarsuvius' Improved Animal Messenger" spell leading V to lose her patience and abandon the Azurite Fleet, was what the Oracle was referring to, was a stretch! Well down Lossoth! :smallcool:

[Sir_Leorik]

Oooh, how about Belkar "caused" the IFCC deal when
He killed that monk in OtootPCs...
otherwise, he wouldn't have been in the Order, they would have had a non-evil monk as their sixth person, so there would not have been a Mark of Justice, so Haley would have been able to retrieve Roy's body on her own, so she would have been able to move faster (since she has a higher move rate than Belkar), so Haley would have gotten Roy's body back to the boat in time, so Roy would have been raised quickly and V would never have needed to try to beat the cloister, and so V would never have felt he/she needed more arcane power in the first place! Plus he/she wouldn't have separated from the order, so the dragon wouldn't have attacked! So really, the whole thing happened because Belkar had to come along with Haley to get Roy's body:smalltongue:

Two major flaws in that theory: 1) Belkar didn't kill the monk, he drove him to tears; 2) How exactly would Haley have rescued both Roy's body and O-Chul from the MitD by herself? Especially without Belkar to cook the stew? :smalltongue:

[137beth]

Two major flaws in that theory: 1) Belkar didn't kill the monk, he drove him to tears; 2) How exactly would Haley have rescued both Roy's body and O-Chul from the MitD by herself? Especially without Belkar to cook the stew? :smalltongue:

1)Okay, but he still wouldn't be in the order
2)Well, she could try sneaking around (since the MitD might have a horrible spot check), put Roy in the bag of holding, and either carry O-Chul, or end up leaving him if she couldn't carry him...
also, she might be able to out-bluff the MitD regardless of stew.
I mean, it's at least a slightly more likely theory than Belkar actually killing V, so the bar is pretty low:smalltongue:

[Sir_Leorik]

1)Okay, but he still wouldn't be in the order
2)Well, she could try sneaking around (since the MitD might have a horrible spot check), put Roy in the bag of holding, and either carry O-Chul, or end up leaving him if she couldn't carry him...
also, she might be able to out-bluff the MitD regardless of stew.
I mean, it's at least a slightly more likely theory than Belkar actually killing V, so the bar is pretty low:smalltongue:

By that train of (il)logic, Belkar caused all of the deaths by joining the OotS in place of the monk. That event is too indirect, even by the standards the Oracle was employing.