Making power rangers awesome?

[grom the mighty]

So my brother keeps forcing me to watch the new power rangers with him, and they're terrible. Now that i'm older I see just how damn cheesy, nonsensical and generally terrible they are. Every time I watch an episode, or even a fight scene I start laughing thinking about how the show should have been done differently.

And then I thought about it some more, and power rangers could not be cool. Not as they are now anyway.....

Keep the format of the show pretty much the same, but if the power rangers themselves were completely re-imagined as something new and badass?

For instance, instead of 5 teenagers in spandex suits, make them ninjas or samurai or something- maybe even a mixture of famous warriors.

Make the fight scenes really over the top yet well choreographed, and go really over the top in a much darker way.

Whenever the monsters get hit they spray sparks everywhere- change it to blood (i'm thinking kill bill levels of gore here).
Make the setting less child friendly, no silly slapstick humour, just pure awesome.
TL:DR:
overpowered warriors fighting evil monsters and giant robots in the darkest and most badass way possible = an EXCELLENT tv show.

Do people agree with me, or is it just me who thinks this stuff?
(more importantly, am I the only one who sits trying to reboot power rangers in my head? :smallfrown: )

[Tiki Snakes]

I think going darker and edgier would just cement it more firmly as a juvenile show, really. However, it might be worth trying out the show they use to create power rangers, as it is my suspicion that the Japanese originals are just all round better in many ways.

Super Sentai something or other? I forget. But from what I do recall, if we compare the very original power rangers season, the characters were actually ancient heroes returning to the modern world or something like that, rather than teenagers with attitude.

[grom the mighty]

That's what I'm thinking, just having more adult themes, and serious choreography ^

[Tiki Snakes]

I don't know about the choreography or how much more adult the themes are.
But the simple fact that the footage is all made for the show, rather than having been cobbled together from another show should leave the Japanese show in a much better place.

[Morph Bark]

It's mostly in the acting, I'd say, that there is a big difference between Super Sentai and Power Rangers. In Power Rangers, the actors often start with a similar idea as you "oh, Power Rangers, that's what I used to think was cool", which causes them to act differently from actors who jump into it with enthusiasm, or who have done it for a while and keep returning because they enjoy it. Super Sentai also appears to have a slightly older target audience, so it's definitely a cultural difference as well in no small part.

[LaZodiac]

So basically you want it like the original Power Rangers, just with less comedy and more blood. I can kind of relate, but there's an odd charm to the Power Rangers, that innocence to them.

I'm not sure if has blood or anything, but I think you REALLY want to chec out Kamen Rider stuff. It's like a single player power ranger with much darker tone. Also a dude who rides a motorcycle and jumps off it to deliver a drop kick AND THIS IS HIS BASIC ATTACK.

[dehro]

it's easy to make the power rangers better..
punt them in the ocean by way of a human cannon and replace them with the Ronin Warriors.
but that's an anime, I hear you say, and not live action.

doesn't matter. it's still better than the power rangers.

[AstralFire]

Replacing people in spandex with ninjas and samurais is an obvious and inherent way to increase the maturity of a thing.

[tensai_oni]

Making a show grimdark - "more blood! More vioooooleeeence!" does not make it better. Better writing and production qualities do.

You realize Super Sentai are a thing, right? There were even samurai and ninja themed teams. The shows are still aimed at younger audiences, looks like you want to look for Garo or something.

[Jerthanis]

I think step one to making a more interesting Power Rangers show is to differentiate the characters more and spend more time out of the suits. I've not really watched Power Rangers since the Original Run/Turbo/IN SPAAAAAACE era, so I'm not really sure what the show has been like in the ~10 years since then.

In my experience, most people who watched the original series most closely identified with Billy. Billy was the only one who really sucked at fighting when out of his suit, and was introverted and nerdy. His growth as he learned martial arts and confidence over the course of the first season was interesting to watch because the character had some degree of texture. Most of the rest of the group was largely interchangable by comparison. This translated to enjoying the blue ranger on screen when the superhero action would break out.

So I would try rather than to change how we see the action play out, or emphasize gratuitous levels of gore, you make characters with really meaty characters, and you write plots that really push those characters to make weighty decisions.

[jseah]

Build up the setting and characters more. I recall watching power rangers when I was younger. Don't remember much, or perhaps there wasn't enough to remember lol.

But do not just have monster of the week where the power rangers continue to defeat random monsters. Have the alien invaders significantly ramp up their invasion efforts each time they fail. Have the power rangers do stuff to keep on top of the ever growing threat.

Have the rest of the "normals" play some part. Maybe one ranger is a mechanic type and can design new weapons for the team and helpers. Diversify the rangers into different power sets instead of having differently coloured beams. Let the rangers do something useful when there are no monsters to fight to prepare for the next alien move.

As the show goes on, the power rangers go from new arisen nobodies fighting a random monster out to squish them before people can notice to having multi-national military and logistics support leading armies against a full fledged alien invasion.

[LaZodiac]

Build up the setting and characters more. I recall watching power rangers when I was younger. Don't remember much, or perhaps there wasn't enough to remember lol.

But do not just have monster of the week where the power rangers continue to defeat random monsters. Have the alien invaders significantly ramp up their invasion efforts each time they fail. Have the power rangers do stuff to keep on top of the ever growing threat.

Have the rest of the "normals" play some part. Maybe one ranger is a mechanic type and can design new weapons for the team and helpers. Diversify the rangers into different power sets instead of having differently coloured beams. Let the rangers do something useful when there are no monsters to fight to prepare for the next alien move.

As the show goes on, the power rangers go from new arisen nobodies fighting a random monster out to squish them before people can notice to having multi-national military and logistics support leading armies against a full fledged alien invasion.

That's....how the Power Rangers are now, honestly. Or atleast it was to some degree.

[jseah]

That's....how the Power Rangers are now, honestly. Or atleast it was to some degree.
Oh? Then they must really have changed alot since my childhood. =D

[LaZodiac]

Oh? Then they must really have changed alot since my childhood. =D

They have. If you wanna see a good idea of how the series has evolved, check out History of Power Rangers by Linkara. It's approaching every series with an adult eye, it's pretty cool.

[jseah]

Hrm. I'll check out the History sequence later, but just skimming through wikipedia and various individual series plot outlines, it doesn't seem like the power rangers have changed all that much.

They don't seem to have gained a plot anyway.

[Hopeless]

Have you watched Power Rangers RPM?

Admittedly the Green Power Ranger was my favourite and having him change colours over the years doesn't change that, so have you watched the Japanese version of the Pirate Power Rangers?

Okay just watch the start now that I'd like to see the Saban version try to pull off, I really don't expect that to work and I recommend you check youtube for that video and then tell me you didn't like that!:smalltongue:

Okay I meant the start before they introduce the pirate power rangers...

[Wolf_Haley]

They already did this it's called In Space, Lost Galaxy, Lightspeed Rescue, Time Force, RPM, and SPD. That's without getting into Kamen Rider, Sentai, and Garo.

[Hawriel]

Sorry man I just can not come up with a way to make Power Rangers cool.

All I can think of is how stupid the actual show has always been. To bad, a live action Vultron would have been cool for my 10 year old self to watch.

[Rater202]

Dude, it based on a Show from Japan.

The Spandex suits-Stock Footage

If you do not like it do not watch it.

Also, the making them ninja or samarai? Thats been done, both of them, ninjas Twice.

Darker and Edgeiar? Watch in Space

[darkblade]

They already did this it's called In Space, Lost Galaxy, Lightspeed Rescue, Time Force, RPM, and SPD. That's without getting into Kamen Rider, Sentai, and Garo.

Garo is pretty much exactly the "Power Rangers with darker themes and blood" thing that the thread has been making fun of the original poster for, only with more pointless tits. Not even fanservice or squick breasts, they are just there on victims and monsters alike, neither enticing nor disgusting. It has some good filler episodes but the plot is pretty much the same predictable series of tropes that the toku hero genre is based on just painted black and splattered with blood.

[Jayngfet]

I'd say the biggest share of blame currently lies at the feet of Saban. Their managing of the show has been awful, especially casting and direction, and it shows rather obviously.

Sentai was never great but it's been better for at least a few years due to Toei obviously putting in a bit of effort with casting and direction. Not all that much if we're going to be honest, but they're still doing way more than Saban has.

Changing concepts in a Sentai show is effectively meaningless given that concepts change so quickly anyway. You need to manage it in the background to get anything actually good. Complaining about just spandex is superficial and laughable all things considered.

[grom the mighty]

I think I could have been clearer with what I originally meant :smalltongue:

There would be no point in just switching out sparks for blood, obviously. That would just make a crappy show lose it's key demographic.

I mean to try and make it stylish and adult the same way films like Kill Bill are. Almost like an over the top anime version of the show, just on T.V.

On top of this, obviously the acting and writing would have to improve drastically as well as production value and costume design to stop it feeling like the cheesy show it is at the moment but it could be done^


Dude, it based on a Show from Japan.

The Spandex suits-Stock Footage

I know it was based on a Japanese show as well and that a lot of it is stock footage, but I mean completely reinvent the show. The only similarities with the show as it is would be parts of the format (team of warriors fight monsters every episode) and the name (if even the name).


Also, the making them ninja or samarai? Thats been done, both of them, ninjas Twice.

I know it has, the samurai one's airing now. And it's the worst example i've seen yet :smallfrown:

[Rater202]

I think I could have been clearer with what I originally meant :smalltongue:

There would be no point in just switching out sparks for blood, obviously. That would just make a crappy show lose it's key demographic.

I mean to try and make it stylish and adult the same way films like Kill Bill are. Almost like an over the top anime version of the show, just on T.V.

On top of this, obviously the acting and writing would have to improve drastically as well as production value and costume design to stop it feeling like the cheesy show it is at the moment but it could be done^

I know it was based on a Japanese show as well and that a lot of it is stock footage, but I mean completely reinvent the show. The only similarities with the show as it is would be parts of the format (team of warriors fight monsters every episode) and the name (if even the name).

I know it has, the samurai one's airing now. And it's the worst example i've seen yet :smallfrown:
no, Samurai was last season.


and it is a Sentai show, The spandex is grandfathered in, though similar costumes made of leather or latex are als permissible.

[Jerthanis]

I mean to try and make it stylish and adult the same way films like Kill Bill are. Almost like an over the top anime version of the show, just on T.V.

On top of this, obviously the acting and writing would have to improve drastically as well as production value and costume design to stop it feeling like the cheesy show it is at the moment but it could be done^

It seems to me like you're essentially saying, "If they made it with my tastes in mind, I'd like it better and if they made it better, more people would like it."

It's true... but also bordering Tautological.

[jseah]

Watched one and a half of Linkara's history videos. I'd say it just needs to have more thought put into it. The action has to mean something.

When a monster is defeated, the villians have to feel its loss in a tangible fashion beyond "oh noes". The heroes and villians actively work towards each other's downfall and are smart and proactive in doing so.

That does not just mean attacking head-on in a war of attrition until one side runs out of monsters or finally gets backstabbed by untrustworthy lieutenants. Think of it like the power rangers are a D&D 3.5 party that is proactive and think about the kinds of things they would do.

They attack each other with planning and goals that make sense, it reduces enemy capability or forces them to react in some way or just plain causes damage. It also becomes possible for the heroes to lose battles and objectives without losing everything. As in, actually lose, instead of just suffering a setback which they overcome and acheive their objective anyway.
eg. we lost the battle, half the town got destroyed, some people hate us now.

Furthermore, the action can scale up as time goes on. By scaling up, I don't mean giant figurines. I mean, it involves more people and more of the world. As viewers get introduced to the setting over the show, more elements of it are pulled into the conflict.
eg. the local town raises a militia defence force; the alien commander is replaced for his incompetence and a bigger cheese takes his place in charge of the earth invasion force, mook count is now an army; earth military gets involved, the power rangers get an experimental hypersonic LEO aircraft/spacecraft to send them anywhere on the planet, also, airstrikes; aliens interfere in earth politics and incite civil war...

Basically, make the conflict more incremental and strategic, less "plot device X".

Also, better fight choreography and more special effects.

[Jayngfet]

I think I could have been clearer with what I originally meant :smalltongue:

There would be no point in just switching out sparks for blood, obviously. That would just make a crappy show lose it's key demographic.

I mean to try and make it stylish and adult the same way films like Kill Bill are. Almost like an over the top anime version of the show, just on T.V.

On top of this, obviously the acting and writing would have to improve drastically as well as production value and costume design to stop it feeling like the cheesy show it is at the moment but it could be done^

I know it was based on a Japanese show as well and that a lot of it is stock footage, but I mean completely reinvent the show. The only similarities with the show as it is would be parts of the format (team of warriors fight monsters every episode) and the name (if even the name).

I know it has, the samurai one's airing now. And it's the worst example i've seen yet :smallfrown:

...so even still, you're basically just making a whole new show given what you want. There's not a whole bunch that your concept has in common with the original.

[AstralFire]

You would have to seriously divorce it from its Tokusatsu roots for Power Rangers to be something that could be taken seriously. A team of five young gifted people with color-coded uniforms doing flashy martial arts is literally the premise of the genre. Out of that, the only salvageable bits are "team" and "five".

Better to go with something childish but enjoyably childish, like most of the Marvel movies. Which is pretty much what the Japanese originals are going for *anyway*.

I find the Saban mismanagement view amusing in light of there being cheering around the internet when Saban got hold of the rights again. I have no opinion, I don't watch Tokusatsu/Super Sentai/Power Rangers and haven't, aside from five-minute glimpses, since Zeo.

[grom the mighty]

You would have to seriously divorce it from its Tokusatsu roots for Power Rangers to be something that could be taken seriously. A team of five young gifted people with color-coded uniforms doing flashy martial arts is literally the premise of the genre. Out of that, the only salvageable bits are "team" and "five".

They're the only bits that SHOULD be savalged in my opinion. Although I could take the uniforms if the acting was taken seriously....


no, Samurai was last season.

Not on the terrestrial UK channels it isn't ^

It seems to me like you're essentially saying, "If they made it with my tastes in mind, I'd like it better and if they made it better, more people would like it.".

Erm..... yeah I guess so :smalltongue:

Also, Jseah gets it. You should probably ignore all of my posts and read his/hers instead :smallwink:

[grom the mighty]

...so even still, you're basically just making a whole new show given what you want. There's not a whole bunch that your concept has in common with the original.

I guess that's what I think it would take to make the show into something great :smalltongue:

Obviously not many people agree with what I'm saying so much, so what would everyone else change?

Would you go with a full reinvention or just change the uniforms? :smallconfused:

[Starbuck_II]

They done Ninja, Samurai, Wizards, Space, Dinosaurs (besides originals), Aliens, Time, Cars, Robots, Mutants, and Lost.

They have left western (guns, sombreros, etc) I guess.

My favorites were Ninja, Wizards, Lost, Robots, and Dinosaurs (Tommy returns as their mentor).

[Rater202]

They're the only bits that SHOULD be savalged in my opinion. Although I could take the uniforms if the acting was taken seriously....



Not on the terrestrial UK channels it isn't ^
:
Well, wait for Megaforce, which you will get in 1 or 2 seasons. Fans of the Show generally say that it is a major improvement over Samurai and some of the later Disney seasons, though personally I am waiting for them to adapt Gokaiger(Pirates, who also copy the powers of previous teams)


And Again, the Costumes are part of the genre, though the Non stock footage costumes could be of better quality (watch Turbo, compare seens when Justin, the blue ranger, is in costume fightin to when he is in costume with the hell mate off as one example.)

But generally, you are just not the target audience. It is a Superhero show for boys 6-16, and out of that demographic, it is pretty much a niche genre

[Silver Swift]

A team of five young gifted people with color-coded uniforms doing flashy martial arts is literally the premise of the genre. Out of that, the only salvageable bits are "team" and "five".

I disagree, "martial arts" and "people" are also quite salvageable :smalltongue:

More seriously, the big problem with power rangers was never the presentation, but more the structure of the plot. Maybe this has gotten better over time, but when I watched it every episode was basically:

- Monster causes personal problem for the rangers
- Rangers solve personal problem and learn important lesson
- Rangers beat monster
- Monster grows to Godzilla size
- Rangers summon giant robot and beat monster

Almost every episode was just ticking of each of these steps and barring the occasional bit of character growth or weapon upgrades there were no consequences that stretched beyond the episode (not that this formula is unique to the power rangers, but somehow it always bothered me more there than in other shows).

Instead focus a bit more on the consequences of the ongoing war between good and evil going on in the setting as well as the personal effect it has on the rangers. You can still have them learn their important lessons and experience character growth, just slow it down and make it a little more believable and have the effects last beyond episodes. Also give both sides some more strategic sense.

Whether such a show would still be power rangers is debatable, but you can still have "A team of five young gifted people with color-coded uniforms doing flashy martial arts" as (part of) your premise, the same way animorphs can have "A team of five young gifted people with alien shapeshifting powers kicking ass in animal form" as part of it's premise.

[Rater202]

They done Ninja, Samurai, Wizards, Space, Dinosaurs (besides originals), Aliens, Time, Cars, Robots, Mutants, and Lost.

They have left western (guns, sombreros, etc) I guess.

My favorites were Ninja, Wizards, Lost, Robots, and Dinosaurs (Tommy returns as their mentor).

the did not do insects, Spies, and they are doing pirates next season.

[AstralFire]

I disagree, "martial arts" and "people" are also quite salvageable :smalltongue:

More seriously, the big problem with power rangers was never the presentation, but more the structure of the plot. Maybe this has gotten better over time, but when I watched it every episode was basically:

- Monster causes personal problem for the rangers
- Rangers solve personal problem and learn important lesson
- Rangers beat monster
- Monster grows to Godzilla size
- Rangers summon giant robot and beat monster

Almost every episode was just ticking of each of these steps and barring the occasional bit of character growth or weapon upgrades there were no consequences that stretched beyond the episode (not that this formula is unique to the power rangers, but somehow it always bothered me more there than in other shows).

Instead focus a bit more on the consequences of the ongoing war between good and evil going on in the setting as well as the personal effect it has on the rangers. You can still have them learn their important lessons and experience character growth, just slow it down and make it a little more believable and have the effects last beyond episodes. Also give both sides some more strategic sense.

Whether such a show would still be power rangers is debatable, but you can still have "A team of five young gifted people with color-coded uniforms doing flashy martial arts" as (part of) your premise, the same way animorphs can have "A team of five young gifted people with alien shapeshifting powers kicking ass in animal form" as part of it's premise.

That's kind of what I meant when I said


Better to go with something childish but enjoyably childish, like most of the Marvel movies. Which is pretty much what the Japanese originals are going for *anyway*.

Also, the formula probably bothered you more in Power Rangers because they almost never deviated or attempted to obscure you from the formula in any way. My 2c.

[grom the mighty]

But generally, you are just not the target audience. It is a Superhero show for boys 6-16, and out of that demographic, it is pretty much a niche genre
That's exactly the problem! :smalltongue:
Why isn't there a show like power rangers aimed at people in their late teens/early twenties?
It's like there's a huge hole in the market!

And since you're so excited about pirates (I am too, pirates are great) then make one of the team a pirate!

A smart mouth swashbuckling anti-hero!

[Rater202]

That's exactly the problem! :smalltongue:
Why isn't there a show like power rangers aimed at people in their late teens/early twenties?
It's like there's a huge hole in the market!

And since you're so excited about pirates (I am too, pirates are great) then make one of the team a pirate!

A smart mouth swashbuckling anti-hero!

Try watching the original Sentai, it is more like what you are looking for.

If you can find it, try Goranger, the original Super Sentai

They usually destroyed the monster by shooting it in the back when running away.

And the villain, the Black Cross Fuehrer, is a Legitimate Eldridge Abomination.


35 five Seasons later, the Plot of the Gokaiger/Goseiger Cross over movie is Black Cross Fuehrer, who has redubbed himself Black Cross King, Escaping from hell.
Watch it Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hcrl5WrnPU)

Gokaiger, the one with the pirates, was the 35 season anniversary, so they have the previous sentai's powers as well.

[Mando Knight]

Here's part of the solution to making the ultimate Power Rangers update:

Let Masaaki Endoh do the theme song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVEMCFjPvzY).

[AstralFire]

Woah. Now THAT'S what I call a cover.

[grom the mighty]

Gentleman......
We have a theme song :smallamused:

[AstralFire]

That is the second best cover I've heard in the last week.

Tay Zonday's Dragonborn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnlUfPlLjKs) still bests it, though.

[Mando Knight]

Well, never let it be said that Endoh is lacking when it comes to JAM (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Music/JAMProject)ming with MANLY SPIRIT! (That could pierce the heavens (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNFm7-UgobE))

...Let's just say that if you're looking for the perfect voice for the theme song to a giant robot show, Masaaki Endoh's one of the guys you should Gao (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NysDKXqVhjY) go for.

[AstralFire]

Eh. It's alright, but I never really cared for that theme song to begin with.

[Rater202]

Personally, when it comes to remixes, i like it when the original musican rerecords the song with better equipment and better instrumentals.

Compare the original theme. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wt6XlVob_E)


To the version from Power Rangers Redux (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHDLFk5WUJE).

you can tell It's the same guy, but you can also tell that he has improved over twenty years.

[AstralFire]

I'm not sure that's necessarily "musician improved" so much as "he wasn't stuffed in a closet for 30 minutes and told to come up with something for $1000." (IIRC, this is not much of an exaggeration for how he came up with both the MMPR and the X-Men themes.)

[Rater202]

I'm not sure that's necessarily "musician improved" so much as "he wasn't stuffed in a closet for 30 minutes and told to come up with something for $1000." (IIRC, this is not much of an exaggeration for how he came up with both the MMPR and the X-Men themes.)

Well, it is still an improvement over the original version, Which personally I think was good in the first place.

[AstralFire]

It's alright, it's catchy, but if I was being completely honest with myself - catchy's about the extent of it. I found myself getting mentally fatigued of the harmonies by the 2/3 mark on both the Masaaki Endoh cover and Ron Wasserman's redux of his own theme. It's worse as I pick through the rest of the album. The fact that simple and catchy jingles were the heart of his work on the series becomes evident in these stretched out versions.

[Man on Fire]

Make the setting less child friendly, no silly slapstick humour, just pure awesome.

Did you ever heard of Power Rangers Time Force or Power Rangers RPM?

[dehro]

I'm just surprised that the show has survived for this long. I used to scoff at the show back in my school days..and those seem a lifetime ago

[Silver Swift]

That's kind of what I meant when I said


Better to go with something childish but enjoyably childish, like most of the Marvel movies. Which is pretty much what the Japanese originals are going for *anyway*.


If that is what you meant with childish then I wholeheartedly agree, though I wouldn't consider most of the marvel movies to be particularly childish. Light entertainment, certainly, but not really childish.


Also, the formula probably bothered you more in Power Rangers because they almost never deviated or attempted to obscure you from the formula in any way. My 2c.

That is probably spot on.

[grom the mighty]

Did you ever heard of Power Rangers Time Force or Power Rangers RPM?
I know they have darker elements to them, but they're still obviously a children's show- painfully so :smalleek:
And there's still silly slapstick humor in all of them

[Prime32]

That's exactly the problem! :smalltongue:
Why isn't there a show like power rangers aimed at people in their late teens/early twenties?
It's like there's a huge hole in the market!There's plenty.

First of all there's Super Sentai (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Franchise/SuperSentai) itself.
Kamen Rider (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KamenRider) is Super Sentai's older brother from the same creators, with a single protagonist (or sometimes multiple protagonists who fight each other) rather than a team, and generally aimed at a slightly older demographic. Kabuto (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/KamenRiderKabuto), Double (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/KamenRiderDouble) and OOO (http://www.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/KamenRiderOOO) are good entry points, each with a different tone.
Precure (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Anime/PrettyCure) likewise is Sentai's little sister, aimed at both young girls and adult men. If you can look past all the heart/music-based weapons the format is pretty much the same with two exceptions: there's more focus on character development, and its nature as an animated series means they can go wild with the fight scenes (albeit some seasons ran into censorship issues). Heartcatch (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Anime/HeartcatchPrettyCure) is generally considered the best season.
GARO (tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/Garo) is basically a Darker and Edgier Kamen Rider with a higher budget.
Unofficial Sentai Akibaranger (tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/HikoninSentaiAkibaranger) is a side-entry in the Super Sentai Series, aimed at people who grew up watching sentai (though most of it works for PR fans too) and anime geeks in general. The group that fansubbed it has notes on their website explaining some of the more obscure references. It does a pretty great job of parodying and homaging sentai tropes, though the second season is kind of meh.


I'm just surprised that the show has survived for this long. I used to scoff at the show back in my school days..and those seem a lifetime agoNow just think: they only started adapting Sentai into Power Rangers from the 16th series on - it and Kamen Rider started in the 70s.

[Rater202]

I'm just surprised that the show has survived for this long. I used to scoff at the show back in my school days..and those seem a lifetime ago

you know, it got cancelled and revived a five times.

It was originally supposed to be one season, but it was so polar that they started adapting other Sentai

Turbo bombed, so in space was to be the last season, but In Space did well enough to get uncancelled.

It was supposed to get cancelled after time force due to financial trouble, but Disney bought it and kept going.

money problems Struck again, and it would have gotten cancelled if Disney had not moved production to New Zealand.

then Disney decided they hated the franchise and screwed its time slots so it could be cancelled, but Saban bought it back from Disney.

Its like the theme song said. " No one can ever take them down".:smalltongue:

[Man on Fire]

I know they have darker elements to them, but they're still obviously a children's show- painfully so :smalleek:
And there's still silly slapstick humor in all of them

I haven't watched RPM but I heard it actually averts slapstick humor in favor of other kinds of humor - it relies on comically seriosu characters and meta humor.

You can have dark kids show with no problem really. Many good cartoons for kids have their share of seriosu and even dark, not to mention nightmarish, things.

As for Kamen Rider, I disagree that it's "Darker Super Sentai/Power Rangers" that's a bul. It's more violent at times, but that's it. It's a franciche and different series may vary in tone just like Power Rangers. And some start light and comedic and then go darker. From what I gathered around (I'm Kamen-Rider-curious, attempting to watch some series in future) the darker Kamen Rider series are Amazon, Black (don't confuse with lighter sequel Black RX), Faiz, Blade and Kuuga. There is also Shin kamen Rider which just reimagines the concept as something out of a horror movie.

Okay, how about this. There is a manga, it even had few anime (2005 adaptation was the best in my opinion) that was done by toku fan and has many elements of it, but is really dark and brutal, with main character brutally murdering his enemies. It's called Guyver: The Bio-Booster Armor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMy0-SKaDN8). It has live-action movie adaptations, but the first one (with Mark Hammil) is horribly silly. Guyver 2: The Dark Hero o nthe other hand is regarded as true to the tone of the series.

Speaking of mangas you might also want to try: Devilman and Zetman. But use some elements of toku genre, combining them with straight horror and, in latter's case, deconstruction of superhero genre as well as elements from Batman (author is a big fan).Devilman has few good ovas (especially Amon: The Darkside of Devilman) and spinoffs (AMON, Strange Days) but movie adaptation is horrible. Zetman's anime adaptation is an abomination

[dehro]

Its like the theme song said. " No one can ever take them down".:smalltongue:

somebody should :smallamused:

[Rater202]

somebody should :smallamused:

http://i.qkme.me/368qg0.jpg:smalltongue:


So yeah stuff.

[Jayngfet]

As for Kamen Rider, I disagree that it's "Darker Super Sentai/Power Rangers" that's a bul. It's more violent at times, but that's it. It's a franciche and different series may vary in tone just like Power Rangers. And some start light and comedic and then go darker. From what I gathered around (I'm Kamen-Rider-curious, attempting to watch some series in future) the darker Kamen Rider series are Amazon, Black (don't confuse with lighter sequel Black RX), Faiz, Blade and Kuuga. There is also Shin kamen Rider which just reimagines the concept as something out of a horror movie.


I'd say it's more accurate to say that Kamen Rider is it's own thing with it's own lineage that split off from Sentai decades ago, after being formed on wildly different thoughts(Sentai being based around groups of people coming together, Riders around the idea that large organizations are out to get you), both mostly being formed by Shotaro Ishinomori, who later went on to train Go Nagai in the early days(who used ideas similar to Ishinomori Tokusatsu to pioneer the Super Robot genre among other things).

It's it's own thing, but Kamen Rider is also undeniably darker than the Sentai that plays opposite to it most years. People do die more often and the threat of death is mFoade a bit more apparent regularly. A more serious sentai like Shinkenger is way lighter than Kabuto, which had way more death and paranoia in it. Lighter rider stuff like Den-O is still slightly more heavy than Kyoryuger, since even if lives aren't always at stake the emotional issues are slightly heavier.

A REALLY good example of this was the scene involving what Gremlin is and does in the current rider series. It's a chilling scene when you see everyone figure out what this guy is actually after, an it's not terribly out of place considering what previous villains have done in past rider shows. It would stick out like a sore thumb in Sentai stuff by comparison, mainly because Super Sentai, and by extension Power Rangers, works under a whole different set of rules and cliches.

I don't actually think one is better than the other, but Kamen Rider undeniably has a darker tone. Not because it's an adult show, since it airs on the same TV block on saturday/sunday mornings, but because it's a whole different animal unto itself.

[Hawriel]

More seriously, the big problem with power rangers was never the presentation, but more the structure of the plot. Maybe this has gotten better over time, but when I watched it every episode was basically:

- Monster causes personal problem for the rangers
- Rangers solve personal problem and learn important lesson
- Rangers beat monster
- Monster grows to Godzilla size
- Zordon tells the bad guy's whole plan to the power rangers out of no were with no way of investigating himself.
- Rangers summon giant robot and beat monster

Almost every episode was just ticking of each of these steps and barring the occasional bit of character growth or weapon upgrades there were no consequences that stretched beyond the episode (not that this formula is unique to the power rangers, but somehow it always bothered me more there than in other shows).


For got a step.

[TheThan]

OK well to “fix” power rangers I would do the following:

1: Write a well thought out plot in which there are consequences for the character’s actions. When the villains sends down a giant monster, it should be a big deal.

2: write interesting and well fleshed out characters; make us care about the people in the costumes. explore what makes them qualified to wear the costume. and explore what its like to fight in this war of good vs evil.

3: darken the mood of the show slightly; you can do this by using more subdued colors in the world and on the costumes. I’m not talking about darker & edger, nor am I talking Grimdark, but I do want it have some grit to it. This should also help create suspension of disbelief.

4: make the villains effective and dangerous. They shouldn’t walk all over the power rangers mind you, but they should be a threat. Make it feel like there is a war going on.

5: Ditch the stock combat footage in favor of better choreographed and more interesting action. It would be neat to see each power ranger use a different style of martial arts. Allow the combatants to suffer injury and maybe show a little blood here and there (once again I’m not talking about gratuitous amounts of gore here).

[Jayngfet]

OK well to “fix” power rangers I would do the following:

1: Write a well thought out plot in which there are consequences for the character’s actions. When the villains sends down a giant monster, it should be a big deal.



The problem is that one of the few things that always gets carried over, with no arguments, is that a robot fight has to happen literally every week. It's something demanded to sell toys and it's used to sell half the toyline, so it's not something you can realistically "tone down" without changing how things work at every level.



2: write interesting and well fleshed out characters; make us care about the people in the costumes. explore what makes them qualified to wear the costume. and explore what its like to fight in this war of good vs evil.


The good series already do this. The bad ones pay lip service to it if nothing else. I don't think there's any ranger series where the guys go "oh hey, random people with no skill or qualification, or even likable personalities, have morphers and go nuts."



3: darken the mood of the show slightly; you can do this by using more subdued colors in the world and on the costumes. I’m not talking about darker & edger, nor am I talking Grimdark, but I do want it have some grit to it. This should also help create suspension of disbelief.


This is entirely my personal opinion, but I'm going to have to give you some firm opposition here. Changing colors has become overly trendy and often hurts more than it helps. Hell, the very last Sentai did this and it had record low ratings and sales. The entire franchise is on the line just because someone in Toei had this bright idea. If "changing the thing at the core concept of the series" is one of your first ideas, it's time to go back to the drawing board.



4: make the villains effective and dangerous. They shouldn’t walk all over the power rangers mind you, but they should be a threat. Make it feel like there is a war going on.


This is already done by a regular series if it's not already terribly written.



5: Ditch the stock combat footage in favor of better choreographed and more interesting action. It would be neat to see each power ranger use a different style of martial arts. Allow the combatants to suffer injury and maybe show a little blood here and there (once again I’m not talking about gratuitous amounts of gore here).

Already happens.


So your entire plan is to ...do everything they've already been doing, except to do it in a way that will almost certainly kill the franchise?

[Man on Fire]

The problem is that one of the few things that always gets carried over, with no arguments, is that a robot fight has to happen literally every week. It's something demanded to sell toys and it's used to sell half the toyline, so it's not something you can realistically "tone down" without changing how things work at every level.

RPM did, it almost always, from what I heard, automatically going for robot's finisher moments after summoning megazord.

[Jayngfet]

RPM did, it almost always, from what I heard, automatically going for robot's finisher moments after summoning megazord.

It's been a while since I watched RPM but it was the series oddball by intention. I mean it's a post apocalyptic story where Power Rangers protect the last human city using suits and robots with big goofy anime eyes. It's a mostly serious story that takes it's fight scenes from a comedy series and changes the tone by adding a bunch of engine revving noises.

Even then though, there was still a robot fight every week. It was questioned WHY they needed a robot fight every week, in universe, but the person asking was supposed to be stupid and wasn't taken seriously. It doesn't matter that it was tongue in cheek about it, the thing is they still did it as I said.

[Wolf_Haley]

Do we really need to make another lighthearted series gritty?

[Scowling Dragon]

Do we really need to make another lighthearted series gritty?

Of course we do man! Everything needs too be Dark and gritty, make you feel like **** for watching it, and have at least 50% of each episode devoted too burning children in a church. Whilst their mothers watch them burn. Whilst being dipped in acid. All overlooked by the rest of the family thats being eaten alive by locust.

Because everything needs too be BEWDASS! And its not like we can appreciate something for what it is.

[Kitten Champion]

Steampunk Power Rangers.

[Rater202]

Steampunk Power Rangers.

... how would that even work?

The Megazord would probably break the first time a monster hit it.

That's why we don't use steam power and clockwork to build weapons and vehicles anymore.


(Technically nclear power is steam power, but not the way steam punk uses it.)

[Kitten Champion]

... how would that even work?

The Megazord would probably break the first time a monster hit it.

That's why we don't use steam power and clockwork to build weapons and vehicles anymore.


(Technically nclear power is steam power, but not the way steam punk uses it.)

Are you objecting to Steampunk Power Rangers on the basis of scientific inaccuracy?

[Jayngfet]

Are you objecting to Steampunk Power Rangers on the basis of scientific inaccuracy?

That's like the last possible reason to object to any kin of Sentai project. Nobody gives two craps about scientific accuracy in a world of truck monsters and dinosaur men.

Provided at least one ranger has a gigantic and well maintained mustache and they don't have a bunch of random useless gears over everything I'd fully support a steampunk ranger project. I can practically see the main mech right now, being some kind of steam train thing.

Oh! The extra mech can be a zepplin where the balloon becomes a cloak!

[Rater202]

Are you objecting to Steampunk Power Rangers on the basis of scientific inaccuracy?

No problem with a steam punk theme, but actuall steampunk tech would not end well

[jseah]

Getting back to this again.

I am coming to the conclusion that it's not the "skin" of the show that has a problem. Coloured suits and martial arts are, well, only skin-deep. The whole thing about giant robos and sparks on enemies can in fact, be overlooked.
And no matter how you change those, it won't change the show into something awesome.

They could be young pilots in experimental space fighters defending humans from aliens in an interstellar war, and if the show does the exact same formula of "new alien spaceship this week", it *still* wouldn't be good.

The problem is the format. You cannot have a "giant robot battle every week" and cookie-cutter "monster of the week" format and have a show that doesn't feel ridiculously cheesy, regardless of how good your special effects are. They could have Industrial Light and Magic do the effects and it still wouldn't be good.

Sketch of changes:
Differentiate the power rangers
Have one or two be Point, they have frontline duty in combat and are generally the combat aces. Their powers/capabilities are offensive oriented and they're there to chew up enemies and spit out the pieces.

Have two or three be wingmen, they defend the team and hinder the enemies. Can hold their own but easily overwhelmed if alone. Invaluable in harder missions as force multipliers.

Have one or two as support. Useless in a fight but have technical or intel abilities that gain strategic advantage for the team. Natural place to put the leader due to the perspective they have.

Plot/Pacing
The enemies have a well-defined goal that the team opposes. This goal should be made obvious by episode 2 or 3.
eg. The aliens are out to conquer the earth!

The enemies have limited assets and this must also be made clear early, certainly before the plot thickens.
eg. We only have a small invasion fleet. "No worries, my good lieutenant, we have ten special class bio-weapons and over ten thousand troops! We'll base ourselves in Africa and they'll never find us!"

The enemies have sub-objectives and goals that lead to their victory that the team must prevent them from gaining too many.
eg. Seventy nodes across the world must be secured by the enemy to enforce their mind-control program over the world's population

But these goals must grant incremental advantage when held.
eg. Controlling three nodes allows the enemy to mind-control everyone inside the triangle. If more than half the world's population is controlled, the battle will certainly be lost.

Similarly, the heroes also have their own set of goals.
eg. These same nodes allow the heroes to use certain abilities tied to them. Getting people to believe in them makes nearby nodes (if controlled) grant one/some of the rangers a new special ability.

Work out a strategic plan for the heroes and the aliens.
eg. Phase 1, the heroes work out the aliens have arrived, maybe a survivor of a previously conquered alien race arrives on earth to look for defenders
Phase 2, the heroes secure territory, they manage to control a few nearby nodes, the aliens get wind of them and attack
Phase 3, the threat grows as the aliens have secured many nodes, the heroes conduct offensive operations for the first time, gain first of many powerups
Phase 4, the heroes kill a major alien asset (eg. one of the ten monsters) the world becomes aware of the alien threat and a division between the alien-controlled territory and the rest is clear, the rangers have to deal with civilians and mundane military power to get their cooperation
- aliens begin to treat the heroes seriously, sending multiple monsters together as well as deliberately baiting the heroes so they can strike somewhere the heroes aren't
Phase 5, open war, the heroes strike at multiple places and the aliens lose more assets, the heroes also lose ground in places, general stalemate with lots of opportunities for pyhrric victories and noble sacrifices on either side (from side characters obviously =P)
- If a Lensman's arms race is to happen, it happens in phase 4 and 5, obvious characters to be responsible is having one of the support rangers be a super-science type
Phase 6, the heroes turn the tide by exploiting a weakness of the aliens to strike a devastating blow, the aliens lose a majority of their advantage and are in retreat
Phase 7, the heroes win the last few mop-up battles with overwhelming advantage and begin to count their losses / rebuild.


Add variety to taste.
eg. don't just have one type of goal like the mind-control nodes
The problem with doing this, of course, is that you end up with something that can't really be called power rangers except for the skin.

Which brings me to my point that the problem with power rangers is that it is power rangers... =/

[Hopeless]

I'm waiting for the series where the Rangers discover they're working for the bad guys and the so-called villain introduced in the first episode is the original hero who the new ranger team nearly kills.

I'd have the first season end with the revelation of who is the actual villain and the team ends up being villified and stripped of their powers only to be granted new powers by their former nemesis who is killed saving their lives as part of the climatic last episode so it ends up they're still alive with new powers and abilities but yet to have learned how to use them and the bad guys are pretty much ready to seize control...

[Lea Plath]

I think probably the best series was RPM. And it was awesome.

It was darker. The stakes were higher. It had an onscreen death. The characters were more intresting. They had to protect the city, but ocassionally they would be pro-active, rescuing humans from a camp or blowing up an enemy super weapon.

Also, as I understand it, Power Rangers Megaforce is using some stock footage from the Pirate version and the trading card version.

[Man on Fire]

Of course we do man! Everything needs too be Dark and gritty, make you feel like **** for watching it, and have at least 50% of each episode devoted too burning children in a church. Whilst their mothers watch them burn. Whilst being dipped in acid. All overlooked by the rest of the family thats being eaten alive by locust.

Because everything needs too be BEWDASS! And its not like we can appreciate something for what it is.

Dark (I'm not syaing gritty because honestly, gritty is in the eyes of the beholder) is a vaild direction to take a story, that can be used for good caracter development and as a storytellin device. The problem is that Dark isn't just "killing characters to show how serious we are" or throwing random rape/gore. Many good stories came from taking previously estabilished title into darker direction (Grant Morrison did this with Animal Man and Doom Patrol, Craig kyle and Christ Yost did it with New X-Men). Sure, when done badly we get flaming pile of turd like Avengers Arena, but being dark doesn't immiediatelly mean the story is gonna be bad, just as being lighthearded and funny doesn't mean the story is gonna be good (as Runaways fans how they feel about Runaways vol.3, which attempted to be more happy and optimistic and still is seen as manure by the fans, with sole exception of issue #10).

Stipping Power Rangers from all camp elements and trying to make it less requiring on willing suspension of disbelief is interesting thought experiment that doesn't do anybody any harm. Stop acting like the sole idea i inherently bad.

[Jayngfet]

Stipping Power Rangers from all camp elements and trying to make it less requiring on willing suspension of disbelief is interesting thought experiment that doesn't do anybody any harm. Stop acting like the sole idea i inherently bad.

The only problem is we don't need a thought experiment, because we can already see it happen in real time: To get that dark ranger stuff you need a dark Sentai that takes itself more seriously. Only we got that, and it was so reviled by general audiences for doing that exact thing it pretty much brought the franchise to it's knees and put it from "most at risk in the programming block" to "two steps away from the guillotine", and was saved more or less only by jettisoning at least half the dark elements.

We don't know how the PR adaptation will fare, but what we DO know is given how the relationship between the two works, just attempting it can literally destroy the entire franchise.

[Man on Fire]

The only problem is we don't need a thought experiment, because we can already see it happen in real time: To get that dark ranger stuff you need a dark Sentai that takes itself more seriously. Only we got that, and it was so reviled by general audiences for doing that exact thing it pretty much brought the franchise to it's knees and put it from "most at risk in the programming block" to "two steps away from the guillotine", and was saved more or less only by jettisoning at least half the dark elements.

We don't know how the PR adaptation will fare, but what we DO know is given how the relationship between the two works, just attempting it can literally destroy the entire franchise.

First of all, audiences in Japan and USA can have completelydifferent tastes, second, that doesn't change the fact we can have fun thinking how we would do it.

[Scowling Dragon]

My issue of the thought process:

"How do we make Rangers more awesome?"

"By making it Dark of course!"

Which is just terrible. Majorly dark things are often just a miserable experience too watch, and get boring much faster then goofy fun stuff.

EVERYBODY IS DOING DARK. I walked out of Pacific rim Feeling "Wow. I didn't feel TIRED after watching the movie. What a unique concept!"

Superman must be a Sociopathic killer, The Expendables (And the Expendables 2) was dark and miserable despite gathering together so many fun goofy action stars.

Dark isn't awesome. Its tiring and miserable. You can make it "Darker in name only", and that would work well.

Make a Power rangers thats just as lighthearted and goofy, yet based off a Metalica cover.

Thats something newer, yet not "ERMERGEWD MAKE IT DARK!"

[Man on Fire]

My issue of the thought process:

"How do we make Rangers more awesome?"

"By making it Dark of course!"

Which is just terrible. Majorly dark things are often just a miserable experience too watch, and get boring much faster then goofy fun stuff.

EVERYBODY IS DOING DARK. I walked out of Pacific rim Feeling "Wow. I didn't feel TIRED after watching the movie. What a unique concept!"

Superman must be a Sociopathic killer, The Expendables (And the Expendables 2) was dark and miserable despite gathering together so many fun goofy action stars.

Dark isn't awesome. Its tiring and miserable. You can make it "Darker in name only", and that would work well.

Make a Power rangers thats just as lighthearted and goofy, yet based off a Metalica cover.

Thats something newer, yet not "ERMERGEWD MAKE IT DARK!"

Stop trying to present your personal taste as objective facts. You may dislike dark stories, btu that doesn't mean everybody else do and acting like this you are just offensive to people who preffer that kind of stories.

[Scowling Dragon]

Check out my signature. Maybe I should make it larger and bold.

[Rater202]

I agree with Scowling, Dark is not better, especially when people go full trottle.

Blood and cussing go a long way on just a little bit. A litle bit of bleeding and one or two instances of the word Damn, is really all you need to reach the level of "Dark and Gritty" that is considered good.

Really, i would give the Storyline a Bigger focus on over arching plots, while keeping the monster of the week scenario.

While a Giant monster is attacking the city, the Big bad is personally stealing something he needs for his plans, but the rangers do not now it yet.

This goes on for about half the season, until the sixth ranger shows up, and then during the monster attack, 6 goes to stop the big bad, while the rest fight them monster. when big bad either steals the Macguffin or retreats, 6 pulls his personal megazord, and joins the others to finish the monster.

[Wolf_Haley]

Yo real talk MEssogog was dat dude, he never really fought much but he was still extremely menacing and they got across how evil and bloodthirsty he was extremely well.

[Rater202]

Yo real talk MEssogog was dat dude, he never really fought much but he was still extremely menacing and they got across how evil and bloodthirsty he was extremely well.

the only reason he did not fight much, was because he kept shifting back and forth between Messogog and Anton.

Now have someone like him,but genre savvy and not afraid to get his hands dirty, and a overarching storyline like what they had from in space.

Also, no civilian powers. that was Bull, and they never even try to justifie not using them in costume (Ninja storm gets a pass, cause ninjas, and they used come of the same costumed techniques in civilian fights.)

[Man on Fire]

While a Giant monster is attacking the city, the Big bad is personally stealing something he needs for his plans, but the rangers do not now it yet.

Already done that in Power Rangers SPD and Power Ranger RPM.

[Prime32]

StuffQuite a few of these elements show up in seinen (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Seinen)-aimed magical girl warrior (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicalGirlWarrior) series (and Precure, which aims for both the seinen and shojo (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Shojo) demographics at once), which have a lot in common with Sentai/PR...


Differentiate the power rangers
Have one or two be Point, they have frontline duty in combat and are generally the combat aces. Their powers/capabilities are offensive oriented and they're there to chew up enemies and spit out the pieces.

Have two or three be wingmen, they defend the team and hinder the enemies. Can hold their own but easily overwhelmed if alone. Invaluable in harder missions as force multipliers.

Have one or two as support. Useless in a fight but have technical or intel abilities that gain strategic advantage for the team. Natural place to put the leader due to the perspective they have....and this is one of the things I'm talking about. Looking at the current season of Precure, the protagonists each have a different special move - a powerful but slow energy blast, a freezing wave, a continuous barrage of projectiles and a shield respectively - and make use of combination tactics. Then there's the characters who don't have Precure powers but still accompany them in the field - a guy who provides a base of operations and has just enough combat ability to draw some aggro away from the team, and the shield girl's butler who gathers intelligence and helps with damage control.

It's not even the strongest example - there's plenty of sentai-esque shows out there where one character uses only forcefields, one uses only ranged attacks, one uses a sword, etc.


Plot/Pacing
The enemies have a well-defined goal that the team opposes. This goal should be made obvious by episode 2 or 3.
eg. The aliens are out to conquer the earth!Pretty common.


The enemies have limited assets and this must also be made clear early, certainly before the plot thickens.
eg. We only have a small invasion fleet. "No worries, my good lieutenant, we have ten special class bio-weapons and over ten thousand troops! We'll base ourselves in Africa and they'll never find us!"Pretty rare, I guess to keep the enemies threatening.

The Monsters of the Week in Power Rangers Time Force (and presumably Mirai Sentai Timeranger) were convicts from a prison the villain had taken over and brought back in time - eventually he runs out of convicts and there's nothing in the present that can stand up to the Rangers. I think Kamen Rider Ryuki and Juuken Sentai Gekiranger might also come close, but I've never seen them.


The enemies have sub-objectives and goals that lead to their victory that the team must prevent them from gaining too many.
eg. Seventy nodes across the world must be secured by the enemy to enforce their mind-control program over the world's population

But these goals must grant incremental advantage when held.
eg. Controlling three nodes allows the enemy to mind-control everyone inside the triangle. If more than half the world's population is controlled, the battle will certainly be lost.

Similarly, the heroes also have their own set of goals.
eg. These same nodes allow the heroes to use certain abilities tied to them. Getting people to believe in them makes nearby nodes (if controlled) grant one/some of the rangers a new special ability.Kamen Rider OOO (tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/KamenRiderOOO) fits this (and the previous item as well, come to think of it). The villains are the Greeed, homunculi made out of magic coins. 9 "Core Medals" form their body, and arbitrary numbers of "Cell Medals" provide energy. At the start of the series a Greeed who's lost most of his Medals teams up with the protagonist for their mutual benefit, making him a Kamen Rider and giving him some Core Medals he stole from the others.

All the Greeed (including the "heroic" one) want to gather lots of Cells to replenish their energy, and gather all their Cores to restore their bodies (having godlike power when complete). The protagonist can also use Core Medals to transform into various forms with different powers, and Cell Medals to power some of his weapons. The villains can create Monsters of the Week that generate Cell Medals within their bodies, but they must expend Cell Medals to do so, and run the risk of the protagonist destroying them and taking the Cells for himself.

I guess Gokaiger (tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/KaizokuSentaiGokaiger) fits too.

EDIT:
Already done that in Power Rangers SPD and Power Ranger RPM.And Go-Busters (tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/TokumeiSentaiGobusters) made the human-sized monsters separate from the giant ones, meaning the team might have to fight them in reverse order, or both at once in different places.

[Jayngfet]

First of all, audiences in Japan and USA can have completelydifferent tastes, second, that doesn't change the fact we can have fun thinking how we would do it.

It doesn't change the fact that it almost died anyway. Power Rangers certainly would have died. American audiences haven't gotten that far yet so we can't judge them as of today.

But we need to recognize that in order to "do it" you need to recognize that there's an order to adhere to. Saying "I would do it this way" while ignoring every constraint that stops them from actually doing that is shallow and self congratulatory. It's essentially saying "If I was free from all the hard constraints and all the executive decisions and had infinity resources and didn't have to depend on another series, I would be SO MUCH BETTER, because I'm that awesome!", which is insulting to the two hundred or so people that put sweat and blood into these shows every day.

You can make a mental exercise out of it. But if you're going to take out all the resistance then it's hardly exercising your mind at that point.


Check out my signature. Maybe I should make it larger and bold.

This is just MY opinion here, but please don't. It's kind of distracting at that size.

If Man on Fire wants to make a statement, he could probably stand to read the bright red text directly following the thing he's replying to that's there every time that would prove the statement wrong.

[TheThan]

So your entire plan is to ...do everything they've already been doing, except to do it in a way that will almost certainly kill the franchise?

So let me explain what I mean. I do not want Power Rangers to be a silly Sentai Saturday morning children’s action show. I want to give it the Batman: the animated series, treatment. That show was a serious show that war FAR removed from the 60’s camp show of previous generations. Guess what, children watched it, parents watched it and most people consider it good, if not the best version of Batman to date. The team that made the show treated it as a serious piece of entertainment, and it worked brilliantly. In fact, it worked so well that other shows took the hint and treated their shows (including later batman titles) with a similar amount of care and respect and those shows went on to be successful.

That’s what I’d do with Power Rangers, re-build the show into a serious action/drama show. I’m talking about a show that adults can watch with their kids and not feel stupid for doing so. Now some people might say “but that’s not Power Rangers”, and they might very well be right, it’s impossible to say without actually creating the show and seeing for ourselves. But i would want to give it a try and see what happens. In essence I want to break it out of the “super sentai” mold and do something else with the franchise.

[Rater202]

I do not want Power Rangers to be a silly Sentai Saturday morning children’s action show

Well for one at that point it's not power rangers, because power rangers is a Sentai show.

And they have to use Super Sentai Footage, it's part of the contract.

at that point, it would be easier for you to make your own show, because that's what you would be doing anyway, because what you described is not power rangers.

[Scowling Dragon]

So let me explain what I mean. I do not want Power Rangers to be a silly Sentai Saturday morning children’s action show.

And I want Batman: The Animated Series to be a TGIF sitcom about a Baseball player that lives with his mom.

[Jayngfet]

So let me explain what I mean. I do not want Power Rangers to be a silly Sentai Saturday morning children’s action show. I want to give it the Batman: the animated series, treatment. That show was a serious show that war FAR removed from the 60’s camp show of previous generations. Guess what, children watched it, parents watched it and most people consider it good, if not the best version of Batman to date. The team that made the show treated it as a serious piece of entertainment, and it worked brilliantly. In fact, it worked so well that other shows took the hint and treated their shows (including later batman titles) with a similar amount of care and respect and those shows went on to be successful.


Yeah, and again, that's been tried. It arguably worked with In Space during the 90's. But then when they tried it with RPM it still would have the series cancelled anyway if Saban didn't step in. Saban's mediocre series still do double the ratings of RPM anyway. Those had silly visuals at times, but that's mostly because of the Sentai.

I don't like harping on this, but I feel I kind of need to get this message across: Serious visuals almost killed sentai. The writers and designers trusted the audience with slightly more muted colors, less toyetic equipment, and more serious storylines. The Children and Otaku both reacted almost violently, and it created a string of record breaking failures. TV ratings hit all time lows, the toy sales shriveled and died, the movie box office was only noteworthy because those rangers were the last thing advertised or focused on in a giant crossover piece. Unless those same visuals come over next year and sell millions more than Samurai or Megaforce using a similarly dark tone, there's no way power rangers could ever have it. Because right now all you will ever get, from this day forward for YEARS, is brightly colored antics with rangers jumping around acting silly. That's a certainty, because right now Toei is in survival mode and the only thing that isn't driving people away is brightly colored suits, boisterous characters, and several truckloads of camp.



That’s what I’d do with Power Rangers, re-build the show into a serious action/drama show. I’m talking about a show that adults can watch with their kids and not feel stupid for doing so. Now some people might say “but that’s not Power Rangers”, and they might very well be right, it’s impossible to say without actually creating the show and seeing for ourselves. But i would want to give it a try and see what happens. In essence I want to break it out of the “super sentai” mold and do something else with the franchise.

I'd argue that you're better off saying "screw Power Rangers" and making your own Tokusatsu program. Because given all the circumstances and everything you'd have to change it's plain not worth the effort.

I mean, for one thing, you can't break out of the Sentai mold. Because that's the only mold there is, and it's the only unifying thing about the franchise once you get down to it.

[Man on Fire]

And I want Batman: The Animated Series to be a TGIF sitcom about a Baseball player that lives with his mom.

Good for you. Why should we be offended by it? You have the right to reimagine batman like this and unless you're making money out of it, nobody should be mad about it.


at that point, it would be easier for you to make your own show, because that's what you would be doing anyway, because what you described is not power rangers.

And your point is...?

A lot of good works have been made by applying the line of thinking "I would make X thing differently if I had a chance". Warren Ellis didn't liked Star Trek Voyager, so he made great comics Switchblade Honey to show how he would make Star Trek show.


But we need to recognize that in order to "do it" you need to recognize that there's an order to adhere to. Saying "I would do it this way" while ignoring every constraint that stops them from actually doing that is shallow and self congratulatory. It's essentially saying "If I was free from all the hard constraints and all the executive decisions and had infinity resources and didn't have to depend on another series, I would be SO MUCH BETTER, because I'm that awesome!", which is insulting to the two hundred or so people that put sweat and blood into these shows every day.

Yeah, there is a problem in that line of thinking. We aren't those people, we aren't under those restraints. We don't need to limit your creativity. When your line of thinking about a project starts with what you cannot do and not what you want to do, then you aren't fit to work on the project, you're the "no" guy. Nobody needs "no" guy.


You can make a mental exercise out of it. But if you're going to take out all the resistance then it's hardly exercising your mind at that point.

The only resistance I need is "would it make a good story?". That's all.


If Man on Fire wants to make a statement, he could probably stand to read the bright red text directly following the thing he's replying to that's there every time that would prove the statement wrong.

I'm never reading people's signatures. And you know what? Even if it's his opinion ,stating it like he did, like he demands everybody to comform to it...It's still offensive.

[Rater202]

Good for you. Why should we be offended by it? You have the right to reimagine batman like this and unless you're making money out of it, nobody should be mad about it.



And your point is...?

A lot of good works have been made by applying the line of thinking "I would make X thing differently if I had a chance". Warren Ellis didn't liked Star Trek Voyager, so he made great comics Switchblade Honey to show how he would make Star Trek show.



Yeah, there is a problem in that line of thinking. We aren't those people, we aren't under those restraints. We don't need to limit your creativity. When your line of thinking about a project starts with what you cannot do and not what you want to do, then you aren't fit to work on the project, you're the "no" guy. Nobody needs "no" guy.



The only resistance I need is "would it make a good story?". That's all.



I'm never reading people's signatures. And you know what? Even if it's his opinion ,stating it like he did, like he demands everybody to comform to it...It's still offensive.

And ignored.

[Scowling Dragon]

I'm never reading people's signatures. And you know what? Even if it's his opinion ,stating it like he did, like he demands everybody to comform to it...It's still offensive.

Then grow thicker skin. Im not apologizing about being tired of the trend that thinking that making something dark makes it better.

I don't even LIKE the Power Rangers. But Watching Linkaras videos showed me how much passion and love there is for the series.

Im not out to offend, anybody. Im not targeting anybody.

You should be saying "I am offended by your statement." because your also generalizing and saying that everybody does.

Good comic (http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2164) about that.

[Man on Fire]

Then grow thicker skin. Im not apologizing about being tired of the trend that thinking that making something dark makes it better.

And I'm tired of that thrend that making everything lighter makes it better and that everything should be light and it's somehow considered mature to throw childlish insults at people who disagree with that line of thinking (I'm looking at you, Grant Morrison).

And seriously, grow thicker skin? It's you who visits a thread about doing what you don't like as fun thought process and goes to derail the thread, complaining about how he hates it. I'm just saying but your skin isn't very thick itelf. Kettle calling the pot black or how the sigil that saying went.


I don't even LIKE the Power Rangers. But Watching Linkaras videos showed me how much passion and love there is for the series.

I love this series. But you know what? OP isn't exactly Saban executive, who can just make his fanthasies reality, it's enteirly harmful that we will play with this idea around here. It won't make Power Rangers as they really are completely dissapear to be replaced by our hypothetical dark show.

[Jayngfet]

And I'm tired of that thrend that making everything lighter makes it better and that everything should be light and it's somehow considered mature to throw childlish insults at people who disagree with that line of thinking (I'm looking at you, Grant Morrison).


That isn't the prevailing opinion. Most Superhero movies strive to at least partially "darken things up" for good or ill. Things are ridiculously dark now compared to even the 90's, once you judge the entire medium.



And seriously, grow thicker skin? It's you who visits a thread about doing what you don't like as fun thought process and goes to derail the thread, complaining about how he hates it. I'm just saying but your skin isn't very thick itelf. Kettle calling the pot black or how the sigil that saying went.


I'm gonna repeat what he said: Grow thicker skin.

You are the one who retaliated the way you did, without reading the bright red letters he puts after every post. You aren't a victim here. You're someone who rushed in without looking at the whole thing and took lumps for it. I'm not about to coddle you for that and obviously neither is he, nor is that guy up there who's decided to plain ignore you.

It's incredibly thin skinned to launch into an attack the moment someone with a conflicting opinion says so. I'm guilty of this more than I'd like to be and I'll own up to that, but I'm capable of recognizing the behavior in myself and others.



I love this series. But you know what? OP isn't exactly Saban executive, who can just make his fanthasies reality, it's enteirly harmful that we will play with this idea around here. It won't make Power Rangers as they really are completely dissapear to be replaced by our hypothetical dark show.

No, but to ignore everything that goes into it and why it was popular anyway isn't exactly a good plan in and of itself.

[Man on Fire]

That isn't the prevailing opinion. Most Superhero movies strive to at least partially "darken things up" for good or ill. Things are ridiculously dark now compared to even the 90's, once you judge the entire medium.

It is prevaling thrend enough that you cannod enjoy a dark thing of actual quality (sticking to superheroes, say Irredeemable or Black Summer, or even The Authority) without some jerk yelling at you that you re wrong for enjoying it. It is prevaling enough for you to see well-written, thought provoking comics throwing away all good stuff it did to call you 13-years old for not enjoying silver age stories.

And a bit of dark isn't bad. Hell, you have a character from not really that lighthearded show in your avatar. I mean, with episode 8 and it's fallout, several episodes of third part and all the deaths in the finale...


It's incredibly thin skinned to launch into an attack the moment someone with a conflicting opinion says so.

You mean like he did when he found this thread?



No, but to ignore everything that goes into it and why it was popular anyway isn't exactly a good plan in and of itself.

Sure it is, we get a new product this way, of new quality, a thing that can stand and speak for itself.

[Wolf_Haley]

Dudes ignorant about the series keep acting like we haven't gotten serious and not campy stories in Power Rangers and Sentai. Hell In Space and Lost Galaxy were both pretty damn serious, hell one of the Rangers actually died, sentai wise look at Jetman. If you don't shed a tear for Black Condor's death int eh end you don't have a soul.

[Rater202]

It is prevaling thrend enough that you cannod enjoy a dark thing of actual quality (sticking to superheroes, say Irredeemable or Black Summer, or even The Authority) without some jerk yelling at you that you re wrong for enjoying it. It is prevaling enough for you to see well-written, thought provoking comics throwing away all good stuff it did to call you 13-years old for not enjoying silver age stories.

And a bit of dark isn't bad. Hell, you have a character from not really that lighthearded show in your avatar. I mean, with episode 8 and it's fallout, several episodes of third part and all the deaths in the finale...



You mean like he did when he found this thread?




Sure it is, we get a new product this way, of new quality, a thing that can stand and speak for itself.

That's not what he said. he said that making a light hearted show dark does not automatically make it better. you are putting words in his mouth, which makes you an ass.

You are also ignoring Logical argument in order to argue your own point, and that makes you a troll.

Combining an ass with a troll makes a hater.

Now, I spend most of my time here on Giantitp in ponythread.

You know what we do to haters in pony thread?
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/230/6/3/orbital_friendship_cannon_by_sandman_ivan-d472fnr.png


I hope that referanceing an other light hearted show pisses you off, because you deserve it.

Have an nice day:smallbiggrin:

[Man on Fire]

Dudes ignorant about the series keep acting like we haven't gotten serious and not campy stories in Power Rangers and Sentai. Hell In Space and Lost Galaxy were both pretty damn serious, hell one of the Rangers actually died, sentai wise look at Jetman. If you don't shed a tear for Black Condor's death int eh end you don't have a soul.

Doesn't mean we cannot do more. What's the harm to it?

And no offense to you guys, reall sorry if any of you will find it offensive, but seriously, why the people who are supposedly pro fun are allways playing roles of killjoys in threads like this?

[Wolf_Haley]

Because what you want already exist. Yeah the current Power Rangers series sucks, but the older ones struck a nice balance between fun an dserious for the most part and same with the sentai series. And like I said if you want something similiar with a more serious theme there are the various Ultraman and Kamen Rider shows.

[Jayngfet]

Dudes ignorant about the series keep acting like we haven't gotten serious and not campy stories in Power Rangers and Sentai. Hell In Space and Lost Galaxy were both pretty damn serious, hell one of the Rangers actually died, sentai wise look at Jetman. If you don't shed a tear for Black Condor's death int eh end you don't have a soul.

The problem is that there's stuff like Jetman, which was a damn fine series. Then there's stuff like the OP wants, where the OP hasn't seen most of the good examples and is just throw out generic examples of "serious" things that he thinks would be cool.

There's also the fact that the entire subjet, in relation to Power Rangers specifically, is a bit of a high tension subject. Samurai beat RPM in ratings, and the last series to have a ranger die did terribly. Between that and the general trends of the last few years, there's more than a little tension.


It is prevaling thrend enough that you cannod enjoy a dark thing of actual quality (sticking to superheroes, say Irredeemable or Black Summer, or even The Authority) without some jerk yelling at you that you re wrong for enjoying it. It is prevaling enough for you to see well-written, thought provoking comics throwing away all good stuff it did to call you 13-years old for not enjoying silver age stories.


I've never actually encountered this, and I go around some rather volatile forums and boards. Can you provide any actual examples, on this forum or elsewhere?



And a bit of dark isn't bad. Hell, you have a character from not really that lighthearded show in your avatar. I mean, with episode 8 and it's fallout, several episodes of third part and all the deaths in the finale...


Dude, spoilers. I haven't seen it yet.:smallyuk:

In all seriousness it's less that and the context of this threads OP. You know, the guy who went "I haven't actually WATCHED anything here in like a decade but what if we took out everything and made them ninjas and stuff?"




You mean like he did when he found this thread?



Dude, seriously? Like, really? Two wrongs don't make a right. I shouldn't have to explain this to you, because that's something you get taught in day care. ScowlingDragon isn't entirely innocent, I'll agree on that.

YOU however went in half cocked and played the victim card when called in on it. That's not easily forgivable and it's not something I'm just going to dismiss out of hand. That's not even a moral stance, that's just bad arguing.

[Man on Fire]

Because what you want already exist. Yeah the current Power Rangers series sucks, but the older ones struck a nice balance between fun an dserious for the most part and same with the sentai series. And like I said if you want something similiar with a more serious theme there are the various Ultraman and Kamen Rider shows.

Consider I'm the guy who posted suggestions for Guyver Zetman, Devilman and Shin Kamen Rider in this thread. I know that. But it doesn't change the fact I cannot have fun inventing another one.

Rater202 - you come into a thread to complain how much you dislike it's entire purpose. I say that's a hater behavior and I know because I'm doing this in ponythreads. The one being hater here is you.


he said that making a light hearted show dark does not automatically make it better.

And I said the opposite is also true.

[Scowling Dragon]

And no offense to you guys, reall sorry if any of you will find it offensive, but seriously, why the people who are supposedly pro fun are allways playing roles of killjoys in threads like this?

Because this thread isn't titled "Power Rangers: What if it was more Dark?"

Its Titled "Making power rangers awesome?" suggesting that the original power rangers where not awesome, and suggesting that it could be made "Awesome" with gritty darkness and death"

My first post was a satire on the idea. Then my second post was an explanation about my disdain for that kind of thought.

Not that Dark=Can be Good.

But that Dark= Good.

And how most Hollywood media has adapted to that idea.

Nothing more.

[Rater202]

Rater202 - you come into a thread to complain how much you dislike it's entire purpose. I say that's a hater behavior and I know because I'm doing this in ponythreads. The one being hater here is you.


You will note, that I have mentioned my own Idea for fixing the show's issues. I am not disagreeing with making it more awesome, I am disagreeing with You saying it needs to be Grimmdark, and Pointing out that you are ignoring peoples counter arguments.

Also, you just admitted to hating in an other thread, and a hater in one thread is a hater every were, it is not specific to just one thread.

[jseah]

Quite a few of these elements show up in seinen (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Seinen)-aimed magical girl warrior (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicalGirlWarrior) series (and Precure, which aims for both the seinen and shojo (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Shojo) demographics at once), which have a lot in common with Sentai/PR...

...and this is one of the things I'm talking about. Looking at the current season of Precure, the protagonists each have a different special move - a powerful but slow energy blast, a freezing wave, a continuous barrage of projectiles and a shield respectively - and make use of combination tactics. Then there's the characters who don't have Precure powers but still accompany them in the field - a guy who provides a base of operations and has just enough combat ability to draw some aggro away from the team, and the shield girl's butler who gathers intelligence and helps with damage control.
That wasn't quite what I was talking about. Something like the one below.


It's not even the strongest example - there's plenty of sentai-esque shows out there where one character uses only forcefields, one uses only ranged attacks, one uses a sword, etc.
This is more like what I was thinking. Perhaps not so hardline differentiated but definitely more like this.

It would be better if all of them ran off different systems. Eg. One point character throws fireballs and summons stone walls. The other shoots light beams and flies around on a broomstick/flying skateboard?. Support characters do something like healing + sheilds, illusions + detection? or maybe general telekinesis.
It makes the team far more versatile and therefore possess interesting combinations and potential tactics. It also allows you to have more different toys to sell, but that's just a side-effect, lol.

It is also very important that characters are not one-trick ponies and that their abilites are very low level and basic to allow for flexibility and intelligent use. Fireball man could summon anything from a small spark to a building sized inferno and throw it around, his wall summoning is more like big-heavy-stone summoning and it can be shaped/used like a spear or as simple as a doorjam.

I dislike "special attacks" but well, you're probably not going to get away without having one. If you must have one, follow the rule of low level and basic.


Pretty rare, I guess to keep the enemies threatening.
The point is to have the enemies not be "oh, well, we lost X monster, we'll be back next week with another one!". But to have what the heroes do actually make sense and have impact.

When the heroes finally do kill a monster, it should feel like an achievement and have real effects. The aliens should pull back, get cautious, go "wait a minute, these guys are not pushovers" or "better not waste the other monsters, we only have 9 left" and perhaps even "oh crap, now we're going to lose those other areas because we don't have enough monsters to defend them".


Kamen Rider OOO (tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/KamenRiderOOO) fits this (and the previous item as well, come to think of it). The villains are the Greeed, homunculi made out of magic coins. 9 "Core Medals" form their body, and arbitrary numbers of "Cell Medals" provide energy. At the start of the series a Greeed who's lost most of his Medals teams up with the protagonist for their mutual benefit, making him a Kamen Rider and giving him some Core Medals he stole from the others.

All the Greeed (including the "heroic" one) want to gather lots of Cells to replenish their energy, and gather all their Cores to restore their bodies (having godlike power when complete). The protagonist can also use Core Medals to transform into various forms with different powers, and Cell Medals to power some of his weapons. The villains can create Monsters of the Week that generate Cell Medals within their bodies, but they must expend Cell Medals to do so, and run the risk of the protagonist destroying them and taking the Cells for himself.

I guess Gokaiger (tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/KaizokuSentaiGokaiger) fits too.
While this fits the deal for incremental improvement and objectives, I prefer objectives that aren't moveable and can't be easily concentrated into one location/body.

The point was to have both a progress/power counter for both sides, as well as present targets and goals that aren't "find those other guys and beat them up".

Better still if the goals present perverse incentives to have alignment conflict.
Eg. Every time the sentai take over a control node, they get a one-use powerup item that supercharges one attack. Except that if they recapture the point, they get another one! So the optimal strategy is to capture the node then abandon it to the enemy so you can capture it again to farm items. (the enemy doesn't get repeated advantages and the heroes know this) Obviously this is bad for the people living there.
I do actually watch the more seinen stuff. eg. Madoka, Nanoha, MaoYuu, SAO, Railgun... Currently following Fate/Kaleid for probably all the wrong reasons.
Um... well, most aren't exactly qualified as sentai or magical girl since well, I tend not to watch those for the obvious reasons. There is also a dislike for big mechs, so I don't watch those too.

I also watched Heartcatch Precure because the anime society at my uni showed it. That wasn't very good either.

[Man on Fire]

I am not disagreeing with making it more awesome, I am disagreeing with You saying it needs to be Grimmdark

Something I did not said.


Also, you just admitted to hating in an other thread, and a hater in one thread is a hater every were, it is not specific to just one thread.

Bull sitting on a toilet. Just because I hate My Little Pony doesn't mean I hate everything, that's a fallancy if I ever saw one.


Because this thread isn't titled "Power Rangers: What if it was more Dark?"

Its Titled "Making power rangers awesome?" suggesting that the original power rangers where not awesome, and suggesting that it could be made "Awesome" with gritty darkness and death"

Awesome is a subjective word that everybody have their own definition of, your awesome doesn't equal my awesome.
OP's thread, OP's right to define "awesome" according to his own principles.


My first post was a satire on the idea. Then my second post was an explanation about my disdain for that kind of thought.

You know, people cannt say whatever they feel like call it satire when somebody gets mad. You came out as a guy who demands us to comfort to his definitions of things and that isn't good.


Not that Dark=Can be Good.

But that Dark= Good.

Or rather you went and said "Dark = ALWAYS Bad". Which is not true.


And how most Hollywood media has adapted to that idea.

Most of Holywood movies, if we exclude thigns dark by definition like horror movies, aren't really dark.

Which brings me to Jaygfnet's argument - superhero movies? Okay, with exception to those based on actually dark comics - Batman, Hellboy, Punisher, Watchmen - what movies are dark? Captain America I have't seen but few scenes suggest it's campy like @#$%, Iron Man 1 and 2 aren't anything I would ever call dark, Thor neither, Avengers was just fun action movie, Hulk was a bit darker than most of things but not really that dark, Spider-Man trilogy was emoing but not dark and I heard Amazing is cracking jokes (and there is that scene with cranes). man of Steel I haven't seen but apparently he's fighting Kamen Rider in this one, I doubt it's that dark either.


I've never actually encountered this, and I go around some rather volatile forums and boards. Can you provide any actual examples, on this forum or elsewhere?

On 4chan several times, on tvtropes (articles and examples written in passive-agressive tone mocking fans of darker things) and in comics themselves (Flex Mentallo).


Dude, spoilers. I haven't seen it yet.

Prepare to shed a lot of manly tears then.


In all seriousness it's less that and the context of this threads OP. You know, the guy who went "I haven't actually WATCHED anything here in like a decade but what if we took out everything and made them ninjas and stuff?"

And there's harm in this how?

[Scowling Dragon]

I...Im just going too ignore you now.

As for making Power Rangers awesomer, I don't know.

[Sir_Leorik]

Have you watched Power Rangers RPM?


I second that recommendation for RPM.

I was never part of the core demographic for Saban's original "Mighty Morphin'" series; I'd graduated high school before the first season aired, and watched a few episodes in college. I was not impressed; even when Lord Zedd was introduced, he went from terrifying to goofy in a terrifying rapid number of episodes.

A few years later I would pop in and see if the show was still on, and continued to not be impressed... until I saw "Power Rangers: Time Force". IMO "Time Force" was the first Saban series to interest me. The plot was different, the characters were not two-dimensional, the villains (esp. Ransik) had motivations other than "I'm evil!" for being criminals, and the Power Rangers clashed among themselves. The Red Ranger had no experience at the show's beginning, having been tapped to lead the team only because his DNA could unlock the team's tech, and this clearly grated on the competent and experienced Pink Ranger. And like other shows where time travel is involved, the Rangers had to worry about accidental changes to the timestream, caused by Ransik's mutants and robots or by the Rangers' own mistakes. These Power Rangers weren't perfect high school kids given high tech toys by a god-like alien; they were cops, cops who could make mistakes but whose hearts were in the right place.

"Power Rangers: RPM" takes many of those concepts, as well as ones from "Power Rangers in SPACE!" and gives them a new twist. "RPM" takes place "after the end". The villain, Venjix, has all but won. Earth lies in ruins, Venjix's robots and cyborgs haven't wipes out 99.999% of mankind, except the city of Corinth, which is protected by this world's Power Rangers. Each of these Rangers is strongly fleshed out, and given great backstories. They range from an Air Force pilot who is the only survivor of his squadron, and whose father commands Corinth's millitary; a spoiled debutante who spurns her family after realizing saving lives means more than riches in a post-apocalyptic world; a humble mechanic and paramedic from Scotland, who dreamed of being a superhero when he was a boy -- not to have powers, but to help people; a thief with a heart-of-gold, on the run from Corinth's crime syndicates; and an amnesiac with cybernetic implants, who wandered into town from the radiation scorched desert.

The show still has all the trappings of a Sentai show: spandex suits, stock footage of giant robots and monsters fighting in the middle of a city, "morphing" sequences, and illogically designed "Zords". But the writers made this really silly stuff work, even lampshading it in one episode. One of the reason it works is that Corinth is not a paradise; the city is under siege from Venjix's robots and cyborgs, crime is rampant, food and medicine are in short supply, people hoard food or break curfew, etc. Nevertheless the Power Rangers fight against impossible odds and seek to instill hope in the city's populace.

I sort of like "Power Rangers in SPACE!", but I think you really need to be emotionally invested in the previous seasons ("Mighty Morphin'", "Zeo" and "Turbo") to enjoy the payoff. I think that Astronoma was the best villain on the show up to that point, but Ransik from "Time Force" has a better backstory and Tenaya 7 took Astronoma's backstory and made it even more heartbreaking and painful. Still "In SPACE!" was a well made show, and light years ahead of the previous series (pardon the pun).

I've heard good things about "Power Rangers: SPD", where the Rangers are a police force, just like in "Time Force", but I haven't seen it.

[Sir_Leorik]

It is prevaling thrend enough that you cannod enjoy a dark thing of actual quality (sticking to superheroes, say Irredeemable or Black Summer, or even The Authority) without some jerk yelling at you that you re wrong for enjoying it. It is prevaling enough for you to see well-written, thought provoking comics throwing away all good stuff it did to call you 13-years old for not enjoying silver age stories.

And a bit of dark isn't bad.

Let's get a few things out of the way:

Dark =/= Good

Dark =/= Bad

Silly and lighthearted =/= Good

Silly and lighthearted =/= Bad

Dark =/= Serious and thoughtful


Dudes ignorant about the series keep acting like we haven't gotten serious and not campy stories in Power Rangers and Sentai. Hell In Space and Lost Galaxy were both pretty damn serious, hell one of the Rangers actually died, sentai wise look at Jetman. If you don't shed a tear for Black Condor's death int eh end you don't have a soul.

"Power Rangers: Lost Galaxy" is a serious show, but it isn't really "dark". The Pink Galaxy Ranger's death was a result of actress Valerie Vernon being diagnosed with leukemia and the character needed to be written out of the show; otherwise the show was pretty much a standard space opera that takes itself seriously (a little too seriously at times). By comparison "Power Rangers in SPACE!" took itself a little less seriously, but the plots were much darker.

The villainous Astronema is revealed to be Karone, the sister of Andros, the Red Ranger. Karone was kidnapped as a child by Dark Spektor's forces and raised by Ecliptor. The Psycho Rangers were also much darker than the sort of mooks seen previously on the show, and in the end the Rangers make a last stand with the people of Angel Grove, as Zordon sacrifices himself to destroy Dark Spector and purge the evil from many of the show's villains.


Because this thread isn't titled "Power Rangers: What if it was more Dark?"

Its Titled "Making power rangers awesome?" suggesting that the original power rangers where not awesome, and suggesting that it could be made "Awesome" with gritty darkness and death"

I hate to break it to you, but I personally was not a fan of the original "Power Rangers" seasons. The protagonists were too perfect, the town they lived in was devoid of crime, poverty or any form of human misery worse than bullies and not having enough extracurricular activities, and the first villain, Queen Rita Repulsa, was horrible. I liked Lord Zedd; he has a very good design for a villain, with the visor, the exposed muscles and exoskeleton, the boa constrictor that transforms into his staff (two nice Biblical allusions!) and he was willing to fight the Rangers personally, especially Tommy. But his plots were dictated by the Sentai footage, not by the show's writers, which was a real shame. Whenever Lord Zedd is not handcuffed to a Sentai based plot (especially in "Power Rangers: Zeo") he is a magnificent villain. Even when he marries Rita, has to put up with her brother and loses his HQ, he is a force to be reckoned with. But only so long as he's not making pachinko machine kaiju or mooks that are easily defeated. When he fought the White Ranger, or sabotaged the Machine Empire, he was magnificient villain, but that was the exception, not the rule. Compared to Venjix (who drove humanity to the brink of extinction), Astronema (who was a ruthless adversary of the Rangers), Ransik (a criminal bent on making mankind pay for actions they haven't done to him yet), Lord Zedd falls short. And when a hero is as bland as the first Power Rangers were, they needed better villains on the show. (At least he wasn't as bad as Divatox. Yeesh.)

[Rater202]

Let's get a few things out of the way:

Dark =/= Good

Dark =/= Bad

Silly and lighthearted =/= Good

Silly and lighthearted =/= Bad

Dark =/= Serious and thoughtful



"Power Rangers: Lost Galaxy" is a serious show, but it isn't really "dark". The Pink Galaxy Ranger's death was a result of actress Valerie Vernon being diagnosed with leukemia and the character needed to be written out of the show; otherwise the show was pretty much a standard space opera that takes itself seriously (a little too seriously at times). By comparison "Power Rangers in SPACE!" took itself a little less seriously, but the plots were much darker.

The villainous Astronema is revealed to be Karone, the sister of Andros, the Red Ranger. Karone was kidnapped as a child by Dark Spektor's forces and raised by Ecliptor. The Psycho Rangers were also much darker than the sort of mooks seen previously on the show, and in the end the Rangers make a last stand with the people of Angel Grove, as Zordon sacrifices himself to destroy Dark Spector and purge the evil from many of the show's villains.



I hate to break it to you, but I personally was not a fan of the original "Power Rangers" seasons. The protagonists were too perfect, the town they lived in was devoid of crime, poverty or any form of human misery worse than bullies and not having enough extracurricular activities, and the first villain, Queen Rita Repulsa, was horrible. I liked Lord Zedd; he has a very good design for a villain, with the visor, the exposed muscles and exoskeleton, the boa constrictor that transforms into his staff (two nice Biblical allusions!) and he was willing to fight the Rangers personally, especially Tommy. But his plots were dictated by the Sentai footage, not by the show's writers, which was a real shame. Whenever Lord Zedd is not handcuffed to a Sentai based plot (especially in "Power Rangers: Zeo") he is a magnificent villain. Even when he marries Rita, has to put up with her brother and loses his HQ, he is a force to be reckoned with. But only so long as he's not making pachinko machine kaiju or mooks that are easily defeated. When he fought the White Ranger, or sabotaged the Machine Empire, he was magnificient villain, but that was the exception, not the rule. Compared to Venjix (who drove humanity to the brink of extinction), Astronema (who was a ruthless adversary of the Rangers), Ransik (a criminal bent on making mankind pay for actions they haven't done to him yet), Lord Zedd falls short. And when a hero is as bland as the first Power Rangers were, they needed better villains on the show. (At least he wasn't as bad as Divatox. Yeesh.)
did anyone notice that soccer mom aproved family friendly married lord zedd was a much more competent villain than original scary lord zedd?

Scary Zedd damaged a set of Zords bad enough that they had to be reformated.

Family friendly Zedd destroyed two sets of ranger powers, detsroyed tree sets of Zords(Thunder, Ninja, Shogun). assaninated two of his major rivals, and generally kicked ass.

And he was one of the few Villains who survived the Z-Wave, specifically because he was married. (Even though the marriage started with a love potion Zedd came to genuinely love Rita, and she returned his Feelings. because they felt genuine love, there was enough goo in them for them to survive having all of their evil extracted and destroyed. Rita eventually became a patron of Good magic(In Mystic Force "I know first hand that good magic is more powerful than evil) though Zedd's location at the time is unknown.)

All of that makes him a more interesting Character than his Original Generic Scary Overlord Personality.

Of course that's just my opinion.

[Sir_Leorik]

did anyone notice that soccer mom aproved family friendly married lord zedd was a much more competent villain than original scary lord zedd?

Scary Zedd damaged a set of Zords bad enough that they had to be reformated.

Family friendly Zedd destroyed two sets of ranger powers, detsroyed tree sets of Zords(Thunder, Ninja, Shogun). assaninated two of his major rivals, and generally kicked ass.

And he was one of the few Villains who survived the Z-Wave, specifically because he was married. (Even though the marriage started with a love potion Zedd came to genuinely love Rita, and she returned his Feelings. because they felt genuine love, there was enough goo in them for them to survive having all of their evil extracted and destroyed. Rita eventually became a patron of Good magic(In Mystic Force "I know first hand that good magic is more powerful than evil) though Zedd's location at the time is unknown.)

All of that makes him a more interesting Character than his Original Generic Scary Overlord Personality.

Of course that's just my opinion.

Like I said, I was not a fan of Rita. She was a horrible, incompetent villain. Zedd had this wierd career shaped liked a parabola: at first he's dark, scary and uber-competent. So much so that he scared the wits out of the Moral Guardians and the Fox Kids network, who lobbied to have him toned down. But that's not what led to him becoming an ineffective villain: the way the Sentai footage was incorporated did all that to him without a single letter from a parent.

Take the pachinko machine kaiju I mentioned in a previous post: the writers of the show were stuck with stock footage of a ludicrous monster for the Rangers to fight. They needed to find a way to justify Zedd creating something so stupid, and their solution: Ernie installs a pachinko machine in his juice bar and Lord Zedd doesn't like it! Seriously? That's the best you can come up with?!?:smallannoyed: I get that the writers need to explain to the kids at home what pachinko is, but why not have Zedd reveal that pachinko is actually an ancient game played by dragons, or that the Devil lost a pachinko game to the Monkey King and cursed all pachinko machines with dark power; something better than Zedd wanting to ruin the Rangers' day!

By the time Rita tricked Zedd into marrying her, the writing staff seems to have gotten the hang of how to shoehorn Sentai monsters and vehicles into the show. And I personally don't care that Zedd was bewitched into marrying Rita; it was the first time she was shown to be competent. Earlier Zedd kidnapped Kimberley in order to make her his bride; Zedd dressed Kimberly ina sexier version of Rita's costume, showing that Lord Zedd had something of a Rita fetish. The marriage worked on screen, and Zedd became a more fleshed out character. I don't mind the marriage, since it was well written. I even said as much: he usually was a force to be reckoned with, until the filler episodes of early season two started coming out and Zedd starts to look like an incompetent buffoon, because of lousy scripts and Sentai footage that should have been left on the cutting room floor.

[Rater202]

Like I said, I was not a fan of Rita. She was a horrible, incompetent villain. Zedd had this wierd career shaped liked a parabola: at first he's dark, scary and uber-competent. So much so that he scared the wits out of the Moral Guardians and the Fox Kids network, who lobbied to have him toned down. But that's not what led to him becoming an ineffective villain: the way the Sentai footage was incorporated did all that to him without a single letter from a parent.

Take the pachinko machine kaiju I mentioned in a previous post: the writers of the show were stuck with stock footage of a ludicrous monster for the Rangers to fight. They needed to find a way to justify Zedd creating something so stupid, and their solution: Ernie installs a pachinko machine in his juice bar and Lord Zedd doesn't like it! Seriously? That's the best you can come up with?!?:smallannoyed: I get that the writers need to explain to the kids at home what pachinko is, but why not have Zedd reveal that pachinko is actually an ancient game played by dragons, or that the Devil lost a pachinko game to the Monkey King and cursed all pachinko machines with dark power; something better than Zedd wanting to ruin the Rangers' day!

By the time Rita tricked Zedd into marrying her, the writing staff seems to have gotten the hang of how to shoehorn Sentai monsters and vehicles into the show. And I personally don't care that Zedd was bewitched into marrying Rita; it was the first time she was shown to be competent. Earlier Zedd kidnapped Kimberley in order to make her his bride; Zedd dressed Kimberly ina sexier version of Rita's costume, showing that Lord Zedd had something of a Rita fetish. The marriage worked on screen, and Zedd became a more fleshed out character. I don't mind the marriage, since it was well written. I even said as much: he usually was a force to be reckoned with, until the filler episodes of early season two started coming out and Zedd starts to look like an incompetent buffoon, because of lousy scripts and Sentai footage that should have been left on the cutting room floor.

Just saying, he was originally consieved as a generic evil overlord that would last one season before getting replaced. After the morale gaurdians made him get toned down, that planted the seeds for a Dynamic character to be born.

[Jayngfet]

Awesome is a subjective word that everybody have their own definition of, your awesome doesn't equal my awesome.
OP's thread, OP's right to define "awesome" according to his own principles.


It's everyone else's right to challange the OP's assertions as well as yours.



You know, people cannt say whatever they feel like call it satire when somebody gets mad. You came out as a guy who demands us to comfort to his definitions of things and that isn't good.


His post as pretty blatantly satire to me. You seem like literally the only person who didn't get it.





Which brings me to Jaygfnet's argument - superhero movies? Okay, with exception to those based on actually dark comics - Batman, Hellboy, Punisher, Watchmen - what movies are dark? Captain America I have't seen but few scenes suggest it's campy like @#$%, Iron Man 1 and 2 aren't anything I would ever call dark, Thor neither, Avengers was just fun action movie, Hulk was a bit darker than most of things but not really that dark, Spider-Man trilogy was emoing but not dark and I heard Amazing is cracking jokes (and there is that scene with cranes). man of Steel I haven't seen but apparently he's fighting Kamen Rider in this one, I doubt it's that dark either.


All of those are notably darker than the source material.




On 4chan several times, on tvtropes (articles and examples written in passive-agressive tone mocking fans of darker things) and in comics themselves (Flex Mentallo).


I don't go to TvTropes. You must go to far different parts of 4chan than I if you see people complaining about dark constantly.



Prepare to shed a lot of manly tears then.


Another joke that you obviously haven't got.



And there's harm in this how?

Because it's a stupid way to do things. I'm under no obligation to respect someone who has no idea what they're talking about and goes in half cocked. When your statements on the material itself are half cocked and wrong, when your ideas are half formed and contradictory, and when your plans all clash with the actual situation, I'm not going to pretend I support your statements.

[TheThan]

Your clearly assuming this show MUST stay a sentai series. I don’t believe it must stay in that mold. No matter how “good” you make the show if it sticks to that format, then a lot of people are still going to dismiss it as “just for kids”. I believe that the sentai format can be a huge speed bump for a show.

By breaking out of that mold, the series can potentially be something that people may not immediately dismiss, and may actually watch. I’ve already stated that making such sweeping changes may turn Power Rangers into something that “isn’t Power Rangers” (which is a completely subjective point of view), but I am personally OK with that idea, some may not be.

[Jayngfet]

Your clearly assuming this show MUST stay a sentai series. I don’t believe it must stay in that mold. No matter how “good” you make the show if it sticks to that format, then a lot of people are still going to dismiss it as “just for kids”. I believe that the sentai format can be a huge speed bump for a show.

By breaking out of that mold, the series can potentially be something that people may not immediately dismiss, and may actually watch. I’ve already stated that making such sweeping changes may turn Power Rangers into something that “isn’t Power Rangers” (which is a completely subjective point of view), but I am personally OK with that idea, some may not be.

Again, that's because Sentai is the only common thing the franchise has. It's literally the origin point for pretty much every connecting element and it's a base assumption built into the franchise. It MUST stay a Sentai series to be Power Rangers.

You can try to make your own thing, but it won't be Power Rangers and referring to it as such won't make anybody happy.

[Sir_Leorik]

Most of Holywood movies, if we exclude thigns dark by definition like horror movies, aren't really dark.

Which brings me to Jaygfnet's argument - superhero movies? Okay, with exception to those based on actually dark comics - Batman, Hellboy, Punisher, Watchmen - what movies are dark? Captain America I have't seen but few scenes suggest it's campy like @#$%, Iron Man 1 and 2 aren't anything I would ever call dark, Thor neither, Avengers was just fun action movie, Hulk was a bit darker than most of things but not really that dark, Spider-Man trilogy was emoing but not dark and I heard Amazing is cracking jokes (and there is that scene with cranes). man of Steel I haven't seen but apparently he's fighting Kamen Rider in this one, I doubt it's that dark either.



All of those are notably darker than the source material.

The direct inspiration for the Marvel Cinematic Universe isn't only the Silver Age Marvel comics, it is also the Modern Marvel comics, in particular the Ultimates/Ultimate Avengers comics. By that standard, "Iron Man 1-3", "Captain America: the First Avenger", "Thor" and "Marvel's The Avengers" are not nearly as dark as anything in Mark Millar's "Ultimates" or Jeph Loeb's "Ultimate Avengers". (The scene where the Blob bites the Wasp's head off is just sickening. :smallyuk:)

Basically the creators of the Marvel Cinematic Universe took the design aesthetics and the cinematic artwork of the "Ultimates" and adapted it to the Modern Marvel Universe versions of the "Avengers", "Captain America", "the Incredible Hulk", "the Mighty Thor" and "Iron Man". In the mainstream Marvel Comics, Captain America is a man out of time; in "The Ultimates" Cap is a racist (because apparently everyone in New York in the 1930's and '40's belonged to the Bund :smallannoyed:). In the mainstream Marvel U, Tony Stark discovered he was an alcoholic after losing his company; as a result he joined AA and makes being sober a priority. In "The Ultimates" Stark can't go two panels without drinking a vodka martini. In a single story from the early 1980's, Yellowjacket (aka Dr. Henry Pym), overcome by a nervous breakdown, slapped his wife Janet (the Wasp). He immediately regretted it, but was expelled from the Avengers for this and other misdeeds until he sought psychiatric counseling. Even years later he is atoning for that by opening shelters for abused women, using money from his patents. "Ultimate" Giant Man is a serial spousal abuser who tries to murder Janet with roach spray. In the mainstream Marvel U., Bruce Banner has come to accept that the Hulk is a part of him, and over the years his personality has been able to control the Hulk, and the Hulk can sometimes access Banner's memories and intellect for limited times. I can not even begin to describe the bizarre nature of the Hulk from "the Ultimates". The less said about the incestuous nature of Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch's relationship in "The Ultimates" the better.

tl;dr "The Ultimates" comic is a darker and grittier version of the regular "Avengers" comic; the "Avengers" movie is a lighter and sweeter version of "The Ultimates" comic.

[Rater202]

Your clearly assuming this show MUST stay a sentai series. I don’t believe it must stay in that mold. No matter how “good” you make the show if it sticks to that format, then a lot of people are still going to dismiss it as “just for kids”. I believe that the sentai format can be a huge speed bump for a show.

By breaking out of that mold, the series can potentially be something that people may not immediately dismiss, and may actually watch. I’ve already stated that making such sweeping changes may turn Power Rangers into something that “isn’t Power Rangers” (which is a completely subjective point of view), but I am personally OK with that idea, some may not be.

but by making it not a sentai series, you are making it not power rangers. Power Rangers is a Sentai Series.

and No mater How Awesome any Show gets, there will always be people who will didmiss it for any reason, so that argument does not fit.

and it has to stay in the Sentai mold regardless because Saban sighned a Contract with toei.

They Have to use sentai footage for Power Rangers, and they can not skip a sentai season. (That's why they used the Goseiger Footage for Megaforce, when the Gokaiger Footage would have worked better for the 20th Anniversary.)

So even if you could fix Power Rangers by removing the Sentai Mold, and keep it power Rangers, you still could not do that because you have to use Sentai Footage.

So it would be Easier to Make a New Show with your Ideas, than to Change Power Rangers to fit.

Also, not every Sentai Hero Show is Childish, Hikonin Sentai Akibaranger (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/HikoninSentaiAkibaranger?from=Main.HikoninSentaiAk ibaranger) has a warning before each episode telling children not to watch it.

I apoligize if I sound rude, but your arguments do not work for making power rangers Awesome. Maybe you should rethink them.

[Sir_Leorik]

but by making it not a sentai series, you are making it not power rangers. Power Rangers is a Sentai Series.

and No mater How Awesome any Show gets, there will always be people who will didmiss it for any reason, so that argument does not fit.

and it has to stay in the Sentai mold regardless because Saban sighned a Contract with toei.

They Have to use sentai footage for Power Rangers, and they can not skip a sentai season. (That's why they used the Goseiger Footage for Megaforce, when the Gokaiger Footage would have worked better for the 20th Anniversary.)

So even if you could fix Power Rangers by removing the Sentai Mold, and keep it power Rangers, you still could not do that because you have to use Sentai Footage.

So it would be Easier to Make a New Show with your Ideas, than to Change Power Rangers to fit.

Also, not every Sentai Hero Show is Childish, Hikonin Sentai Akibaranger (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/HikoninSentaiAkibaranger?from=Main.HikoninSentaiAk ibaranger) has a warning before each episode telling children not to watch it.

I apoligize if I sound rude, but your arguments do not work for making power rangers Awesome. Maybe you should rethink them.

Power Rangers doesn't need to stop being a Sentai show, but I think they need to either film more original footage or find better ways to integrate the stock footage into the plot of the American series. Like I said earlier, I found that "Time Force" and "RPM" did extraordinary work in reworking the stock Sentai footage into something new and exciting. The writers at Saban need to review all the episodes of a Sentai series before deciding how to work into into a new "Power Rangers" series. "RPM"'s "post-apocalyptic" setting, "Time Force"'s fish-out-of-water time travellers, "Lost Galaxy"'s colony ship and space opera elements, "SPD"'s space cops, "Lightspeed Rescue"'s search and rescue worker theme and even "In Space"'s pseudo-"Star Trek" elements, are all good examples, whereas "Mystic Force", "Ninja Force" and "Dino Thunder" were not.

[Drascin]

The direct inspiration for the Marvel Cinematic Universe isn't only the Silver Age Marvel comics, it is also the Modern Marvel comics, in particular the Ultimates/Ultimate Avengers comics.

The movies actually have some characters that are not horrendous wastes of oxygen. This makes it clear that the Ultimate universe is not a strong influence :smalltongue:

[Jayngfet]

Power Rangers doesn't need to stop being a Sentai show, but I think they need to either film more original footage or find better ways to integrate the stock footage into the plot of the American series. Like I said earlier, I found that "Time Force" and "RPM" did extraordinary work in reworking the stock Sentai footage into something new and exciting. The writers at Saban need to review all the episodes of a Sentai series before deciding how to work into into a new "Power Rangers" series. "RPM"'s "post-apocalyptic" setting, "Time Force"'s fish-out-of-water time travellers, "Lost Galaxy"'s colony ship and space opera elements, "SPD"'s space cops, "Lightspeed Rescue"'s search and rescue worker theme and even "In Space"'s pseudo-"Star Trek" elements, are all good examples, whereas "Mystic Force", "Ninja Force" and "Dino Thunder" were not.

The problem is, reviewing episodes beforehand was something they could only hope to do around Samurai. Before that it was impossible to do so, Saban and Disney pretty much had to wing it if they wanted to get things out on time. I think they ARE looking at everything now, but they just don't care.

[Man on Fire]

It's everyone else's right to challange the OP's assertions as well as yours.

But it's not in my right to challenge their challenge?


His post as pretty blatantly satire to me. You seem like literally the only person who didn't get it.

Different sense of humor.



All of those are notably darker than the source material.

You don't read many comics with those characters, do you? I could name loads of comics of every one of those characters who are darker than the movies and from maisntream continuity only.

Punisher movies have nothing on Garth Ennis' Punisher MAX, especially the Slavers, arc so depressing and horrifing even writer himself almost slipepd into depression - it's about Frank tracking people who sell human slaves.

Batman - please, Nolan isn't even close to the levels of messed up that are brian Azzazello's Joker, Venom, Arkham Asylum: Serious House on Seriosu Earth, Arkham Asylum: Living Hell and many more.

Captain America - Ed Brubaker's run for the starters. Or that time he abbandonned his duty after finding out president of United State is corrupted and evil.

Iron Man - Extremis by Warren Ellis, Demon in the Bottle, that one arc that end with Stark slowly dying and almost getting beaten to death by Norman Osborn.

Hulk - Planet Hulk and Wolrd War Hulk tops everything movies did, then there is entire Bruce Johns' run and Tempus Fugit and that's only more fresh stuff.

Thor - there is literally comics in which he visits New Orlean and is grieving he wasn't there to save it from hurricane.

Spider-man had a comics about Harry Osborn's becomign drug addict and since then he had doznes of darker stories - Shrieking, Kraven's Last Hunt, Grim Hunt, Joe Straczynski's run had him facing problems like homeless children or school shootings and in the Other he got his eye ripped out and eaten.

Superman - movie ain't got nothing on Lex Luthor: The Man of Steel, that's a dark superman story if there is one.

Avengers - current New Avengers, previous New Avengers after Civil War, especially during Dark Reign.

Movies aren't darker than source material, not in the slightest.


I don't go to TvTropes. You must go to far different parts of 4chan than I if you see people complaining about dark constantly.

I've been caled names for liking X-23 comics on 4chan once. On /co/, dunno what boards you visit.

[Prime32]

And he was one of the few Villains who survived the Z-Wave, specifically because he was married. (Even though the marriage started with a love potion Zedd came to genuinely love Rita, and she returned his Feelings. because they felt genuine love, there was enough goo in them for them to survive having all of their evil extracted and destroyed. Rita eventually became a patron of Good magic(In Mystic Force "I know first hand that good magic is more powerful than evil) though Zedd's location at the time is unknown.)The most popular theory seems to be that he turned evil again and became Mystic Force's final Big Bad. Who was probably one of the most terrifying villains in the franchise.

[Jayngfet]

But it's not in my right to challenge their challenge?


It is. But you do so badly, so I challenge your challenge.






You don't read many comics with those characters, do you? I could name loads of comics of every one of those characters who are darker than the movies and from maisntream continuity only.

Punisher movies have nothing on Garth Ennis' Punisher MAX, especially the Slavers, arc so depressing and horrifing even writer himself almost slipepd into depression - it's about Frank tracking people who sell human slaves.

Batman - please, Nolan isn't even close to the levels of messed up that are brian Azzazello's Joker, Venom, Arkham Asylum: Serious House on Seriosu Earth, Arkham Asylum: Living Hell and many more.

Captain America - Ed Brubaker's run for the starters. Or that time he abbandonned his duty after finding out president of United State is corrupted and evil.

Iron Man - Extremis by Warren Ellis, Demon in the Bottle, that one arc that end with Stark slowly dying and almost getting beaten to death by Norman Osborn.

Hulk - Planet Hulk and Wolrd War Hulk tops everything movies did, then there is entire Bruce Johns' run and Tempus Fugit and that's only more fresh stuff.

Thor - there is literally comics in which he visits New Orlean and is grieving he wasn't there to save it from hurricane.

Spider-man had a comics about Harry Osborn's becomign drug addict and since then he had doznes of darker stories - Shrieking, Kraven's Last Hunt, Grim Hunt, Joe Straczynski's run had him facing problems like homeless children or school shootings and in the Other he got his eye ripped out and eaten.

Superman - movie ain't got nothing on Lex Luthor: The Man of Steel, that's a dark superman story if there is one.

Avengers - current New Avengers, previous New Avengers after Civil War, especially during Dark Reign.

Movies aren't darker than source material, not in the slightest.


That was a flippant and badly thought out set of remarks. I take full responsibility for them.


However, they all do lean closer to the darker comics than lighter ones, that's undeniable. The only one I'd say is undeniably lighter or at least on par is Punisher, who was notably softer in his movie.




I've been caled names for liking X-23 comics on 4chan once. On /co/, dunno what boards you visit.

Huh. I've never encountered that kind of behavior specifically. I mean I've been called a bunch of unkind names for a bunch of stupid things, and admittedly quite often I earn my insults, though not always; I'm honestly sure I've been insulted with racial slurs that don't even exist. Outside blatant trolling I've been attacked on pretty much everything EXCEPT story tone.

Though I'd say you're making a rather big deal out of it. I mean it's a one off disposable anonymous comment. I mean that must've either been pretty nasty to stick out in your mind or you don't get insulted as much as everybody else.

[Sir_Leorik]

The movies actually have some characters that are not horrendous wastes of oxygen. This makes it clear that the Ultimate universe is not a strong influence :smalltongue:

Bryan Hitch's artwork is a major influence on the MCU. From Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury, to Captain America's WWII-era and modern era costumes, to the way Thor's costume blends influences from Kirby, Simonson and Hitch, the visual influences from "Ultimates" are definitely there. But in terms of plot and character development the writers decided that borrowing from Mark Millar was not a good idea. Only the Chitauri got recycled into the "Avengers"; everything else was adapted from the mainstream Marvel U. It's like Warren Ellis and Stuart Immonen famously said: "Mark Millar licks goats." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nextwave_issue_11.jpeg) :smalltongue:

[Wolf_Haley]

Man all this talk of PR reminds me of how annoyed I am Ecliptor was killed at the end of In Space.

[Rater202]

Man all this talk of PR reminds me of how annoyed I am Ecliptor was killed at the end of In Space.

The only ones who survived the z-wave were the ones with enough good to survive having their evil half destroyed.

Ecliptor's only good traits were his loyalty, and that he genuinely cared about Astronema.

Seeing how at that point he thought that Astronama was dead, his good Probably died with her.

Also, the Sentai Character he was based on was killed off, and everything in that part of the ship was stock footage, save for Zordon's Energy tube, which was crudely Pasted over an enegine or power source of some kind.

[Sir_Leorik]

Man all this talk of PR reminds me of how annoyed I am Ecliptor was killed at the end of In Space.


The only ones who survived the z-wave were the ones with enough good to survive having their evil half destroyed.

Ecliptor's only good traits were his loyalty, and that he genuinely cared about Astronema.

Seeing how at that point he thought that Astronama was dead, his good Probably died with her.

Also, the Sentai Character he was based on was killed off, and everything in that part of the ship was stock footage, save for Zordon's Energy tube, which was crudely Pasted over an enegine or power source of some kind.

I think that's the real explanation for why certain characters (Rita, Lord Zedd, Divatox) were purified by the Z-Wave and other characters were obliterated by it: characters that were based mostly or entirely on stock footage were destroyed, while characters who had actors on set got to be redeemed. Divatox is a good example: she was an original character, played by a Western actress. Rito wasn't purified because the costume Saban was using had fallen to pieces and couldn't be used, so the character didn't show up after "Zeo". In many cases on "Power Rangers", especially the early Saban seasons, the plot was necessitated by what was in the Sentai footage or what Saban's meager budget could afford for new footage. Considering the number of extras they used in the finale to "In Space", the fight choreography and the FX, they probably decided to shoot a few simple scenes using Rita and Zedd (the oldest villains in the show's canon) and Divatox (who was an actress without extensive makeup/prosthetics), rather than come up with multiple scenes of villains being redeemed. Which is a shame, because several of Zedd's lieutenants and minions (Goldar, Finster, Squatt, Babboo) weren't really iredeemably evil. Finster was a punch-clock villain, creating monsters for Rita for a paycheck; Goldar was an honorable soldier, with an almost samurai-like code of conduct; and Squatt and Babboo never actually did anything evil. Maybe they were redeemed off-screen, who knows?

[Rater202]

I think that's the real explanation for why certain characters (Rita, Lord Zedd, Divatox) were purified by the Z-Wave and other characters were obliterated by it: characters that were based mostly or entirely on stock footage were destroyed, while characters who had actors on set got to be redeemed. Divatox is a good example: she was an original character, played by a Western actress. Rito wasn't purified because the costume Saban was using had fallen to pieces and couldn't be used, so the character didn't show up after "Zeo". In many cases on "Power Rangers", especially the early Saban seasons, the plot was necessitated by what was in the Sentai footage or what Saban's meager budget could afford for new footage. Considering the number of extras they used in the finale to "In Space", the fight choreography and the FX, they probably decided to shoot a few simple scenes using Rita and Zedd (the oldest villains in the show's canon) and Divatox (who was an actress without extensive makeup/prosthetics), rather than come up with multiple scenes of villains being redeemed. Which is a shame, because several of Zedd's lieutenants and minions (Goldar, Finster, Squatt, Babboo) weren't really iredeemably evil. Finster was a punch-clock villain, creating monsters for Rita for a paycheck; Goldar was an honorable soldier, with an almost samurai-like code of conduct; and Squatt and Babboo never actually did anything evil. Maybe they were redeemed off-screen, who knows?

You will note, that Finster was not present during the final battle, so we have know clue if he died or not.

[Sir_Leorik]

You will note, that Finster was not present during the final battle, so we have know clue if he died or not.

That's what I meant, we don't know what happened to the four of them, one way or the other. The Z-Wave supposedly affected "the entire universe" or a large chunk of it, but many minor characters' fates were not revealed, probably due to insufficient time and money.

[Rater202]

That's what I meant, we don't know what happened to the four of them, one way or the other. The Z-Wave supposedly affected "the entire universe" or a large chunk of it, but many minor characters' fates were not revealed, probably due to insufficient time and money.

I belive the Exact explination was that it destroyed all of the Evil that was in the Milky Way Galaxy at that specific point in time, save for beings that were somehow shielded from Zordon's Energy, or that were more powerful than Zordon.(The Demons from Lightspeed rescue, were technically traped in an other dimension for example)

Finster Squat and Boo Boo, were not present, but Goldar was, as well as what looked like a crude Rito Costume, and they were both Dusted, Which meens that Good Zedd was Probably still somewhat of a bad guy, even without being evil(literaly dancing on his hated Brother in law's remains anyone?)

[Starbuck_II]

whereas "Mystic Force", "Ninja Force" and "Dino Thunder" were not.

But those were some of my favorites of the series.
They were cool because without transforming they had powers.
Ninjas were Ninjas
The Dino team had Dino powers.
And Mystic Force had wands.

[Sir_Leorik]

But those were some of my favorites of the series.
They were cool because without transforming they had powers.
Ninjas were Ninjas
The Dino team had Dino powers.
And Mystic Force had wands.

Which begs the question: if the writers can give the characters new abilities, which requires shooting new footage and an increased FX budget, why can't the writers find creative ways to integrate the Japanese Sentai footage seamlessly into the new footage?

[ChaosLord29]

But those were some of my favorites of the series.
They were cool because without transforming they had powers.
Ninjas were Ninjas
The Dino team had Dino powers.
And Mystic Force had wands.

I thought that was a nifty element to add, and having a core team of three would actually make more sense to me, except that inevitably, the focus seems to be on the Red Ranger, because he's the effing Red Ranger (whatever else he is; SPD really bothered me with that).

Perhaps relevant, but starting with Ninja Storm is where I really thought the theme songs began to fall off . . . I mean, the Mystic Force theme song is just terrible.

[Silver Swift]

Someone just pointed out to me that Pacific Rim is basically the "Giant monster vs Zord" part of power rangers, only more awesome.

Don't know where I'm going with this, just wanted to mention it.

[Tengu_temp]

Someone just pointed out to me that Pacific Rim is basically the "Giant monster vs Zord" part of power rangers, only more awesome.

Don't know where I'm going with this, just wanted to mention it.

Pacific Rim was directly inspired by kaiju movies like Godzilla, and a lot of mecha anime. It seems similar to Power Rangers only because that's the only live action show with giant robots most people in the western world know.

[Silver Swift]

Pacific Rim was directly inspired by kaiju movies like Godzilla, and a lot of mecha anime. It seems similar to Power Rangers only because that's the only live action show with giant robots most people in the western world know.

Oh, I know, Gundams vs Godzillas is the way I usually describe the movie to other people.

But the combination of giant monsters fighting giant robots seemed atypical enough to warrant the comparison to power rangers. Granted, if Pacific Rim counts I have watched a grand total of 1 kaiju movie, so it is quite possible I am completely wrong on that part.

[Rater202]

Oh, I know, Gundams vs Godzillas is the way I usually describe the movie to other people.

But the combination of giant monsters fighting giant robots seemed atypical enough to warrant the comparison to power rangers. Granted, if Pacific Rim counts I have watched a grand total of 1 kaiju movie, so it is quite possible I am completely wrong on that part.

Very, tthe govenment building giant robots to fight Kaiju is a staple of long running Kaiju series

[Prime32]

Oh, I know, Gundams vs Godzillas is the way I usually describe the movie to other people.

But the combination of giant monsters fighting giant robots seemed atypical enough to warrant the comparison to power rangers. Granted, if Pacific Rim counts I have watched a grand total of 1 kaiju movie, so it is quite possible I am completely wrong on that part.Giant monsters are the default things for giant robots to fight. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Robeast) :smallconfused: Gundam was conceived as Giant Robots meet Space Opera meet World War 2.

[Silver Swift]

Very, tthe govenment building giant robots to fight Kaiju is a staple of long running Kaiju series


Giant monsters are the default things for giant robots to fight. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Robeast) :smallconfused: Gundam was conceived as Giant Robots meet Space Opera meet World War 2.

I stand corrected, though I think that tvtropes pages is for monster shaped giant robots.

I thought the default thing for giant robots to fight were other giant robots :smallsmile: . Though my experience with that genre is limited to various Gundam series, Code Geas and the armoured core games. So if giant robots as weapons of war was Gundams thing (and code Geas and AC are copying that) then it makes sense.

[zenoisy]

it is awesome

[Aidan305]

Perhaps relevant, but starting with Ninja Storm is where I really thought the theme songs began to fall off . . . I mean, the Mystic Force theme song is just terrible.

The Mystic Force theme song suffered from executive interference. Here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VclgxwWO474) what it was originally going to be.

[Sean Mirrsen]

/me skims through the thread...


<snip>
Now, I spend most of my time here on Giantitp in ponythread.

You know what we do to haters in pony thread?
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/230/6/3/orbital_friendship_cannon_by_sandman_ivan-d472fnr.png
<snip>
Given the nature of this thread, I beg to differ.

It would be more appropriate to do this:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4152380/MLPMegazord_LookOnYourFace.png

[/shameless plug] :smallbiggrin:

[Jayngfet]

I thought the default thing for giant robots to fight were other giant robots :smallsmile: . Though my experience with that genre is limited to various Gundam series, Code Geas and the armoured core games. So if giant robots as weapons of war was Gundams thing (and code Geas and AC are copying that) then it makes sense.

It's one of those grey areas. The genre grandaddies tended to fight robotic monsters, or else giant cyborgs usually. Straight up fleshy Kaiju are probably something of a minority, but for all intents and purposes other enemies tend to be independent, monstrous, and built more like an animal than a tank. So for all intents and purposes, they were pretty much giant monsters.