Help me make an arcane warrior

[Gwazi Magnum]

Basically I'm looking at making an arcane warrior sort of character.

One who is competent in melee combat (high BAB preferred), so he can get in a fray with little issue.

But can also cast arcane spells fine, spontaneously is preferred.
I'd like to be able to cast up to level 9 but I know when also looking to be a competent melee combatant that it's unlikely.

Though I would like access to some ranged damage spells and not close range damage spells so I have some range capacity without having to focus on enchanting both a sword and a bow.

Currently I'm looking at Duskblade, it seems nice. But the lower spell cap and the limited spells known where I can't find much for range damage are a bit of a turn off.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Battle Sorcerer 5 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVariantBattleS orcerer)/Paladin 2/Abjurant Champion 5/???

Sorcerer/Paladin/Spellsword is another classic, although you lose more caster levels that way.

(Paladin in for proficiencies and Cha synergy-- adding your casting stat to saves can only be a good thing)

[fishyfishyfishy]

Actually it's relatively easy to get 9th level arcane spells and a high base attack in a build. Something like Wizard4/Fighter2/Spellsword1/Abjurant Champion5/Eldritch Knight8 gets you 9ths plus a BAB of 18. Make sure you take the feats Arcane Strike and Power Attack and be sure Wraithstrike us one of you're spells known. This is just general advice for a gish build, not particularly optimized. I'm sure there's a handbook on the subject. I would link it but I'm on my phone, try a google search.

[Karnith]

I generally like Sorcadin builds for gishes - something like Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8, which gets you 9th-level spells and BAB +16 at level 20.

EDIT: I know of some Gish handbooks here (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868042/Character_Build_Spotlight:_Gish) and here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8786).

[fishyfishyfishy]

I generally like Sorcadin builds for gishes - something like Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8, which gets you 9th-level spells and BAB +16 at level 20.

Sacred Exorcist is a good one. I forgot that you can use it to advance any spellcasting class. This would do exactly what you are trying to accomplish.

[Big Fau]

Or you can just be a pure Wizard, and abuse Alter Self, False Life, Displacement, Mage Armor, Shield, and other buffs and use natural weapons to act like a Fighter.

It's fairly easy to get an AC of 25-30 at level 3, and then you can buff your attack rolls just as effortlessly (or you can ask the party's Cleric to buff you, which would be more efficient as they have a wide array of buffs that can affect the entire party, and if you have a Bard you can double-dip buffs).

[Elycium]

Or you can just be a pure Wizard, and abuse Alter Self, False Life, Displacement, Mage Armor, Shield, and other buffs and use natural weapons to act like a Fighter.

It's fairly easy to get an AC of 25-30 at level 3, and then you can buff your attack rolls just as effortlessly (or you can ask the party's Cleric to buff you, which would be more efficient as they have a wide array of buffs that can affect the entire party, and if you have a Bard you can double-dip buffs).

And so, you can make a wizard that attempts to be a Barbarian :D

[Randomguy]

Or you can just be a pure Wizard, and abuse Alter Self, False Life, Displacement, Mage Armor, Shield, and other buffs and use natural weapons to act like a Fighter.

It's fairly easy to get an AC of 25-30 at level 3, and then you can buff your attack rolls just as effortlessly (or you can ask the party's Cleric to buff you, which would be more efficient as they have a wide array of buffs that can affect the entire party, and if you have a Bard you can double-dip buffs).

The best way to do this would probably be Wizard/Incantatrix with Arcane Disciple (war domain) and Persistent Divine Power.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

And so, you can make a wizard that attempts to be a Barbarian :D

He'll do a better job of it than the Barbarian who thought he was a Wizard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195049).

[Slipperychicken]

He'll do a better job of it than the Barbarian who thought he was a Wizard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195049).

Just be a Wizard who runs around dressed like Conan, constantly greases his muscles, speaks in a low dull voice, refers to himself in the third person, carries around a club, is named something like "Kruzz Clan Ironhork", wears a bunch of severed monster-parts, and uses common monosyllabic words wherever possible.

Everyone will try to target your Will save and it'll be hilarious.

[Waker]

Since the requisite Sorcadin builds have already been suggested, how about
Spellthief 1/Sorcerer 5/Daggerspell Mage X/Swiftblade X
Of course you would grab Master Spellthief at lvl 6 and Arcane Strike, along with the required feats for PrC entry. You could run into battle, stab some enemies possibly stealing some spells in the process, which you would then burn with Arcane Strike to get extra hit/damage. You might also consider sneaking a few levels of Abjurant Champion in, since everyone loves that PrC for Gishes.

[ArqArturo]

Alternatively, the Bear of the North (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2919.50;wap2) build is pretty good, since you can do pretty much anything you please.

[Gwazi Magnum]

This looks nice, but I'm worried about losing BAB from too many wizard levels or losing too many caster levels from Fighter or certain prestige classes.

Is there a way to give the Wizard a higher BAB or a way to give another base class the wizards spell list?

[Big Fau]

You'd probably want to go with a Dragonwrought Kobold Battle Sorcerer base then. You could use the Greater Rite of Passage to speed up the Sorcerer's casting, and get a better BAB.

However, a +18 at 20th level is sufficient for most enemies (only a rare few will be able to ignore than, and those few are vulnerable to Touch spells). All you really need to worry about is getting that 17th level of Wizard.

[getme0]

I've tried one of these before.

Try hexblade 6/ bard 5/ fighter 2.

You can wear armor, cast spells, heal, get some bonus feats, and do a good deal of damage.






http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/21.jpg (http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm)

[Big Fau]

I've tried one of these before.

Try hexblade 6/ bard 5/ fighter 2.

You can wear armor, cast spells, heal, get some bonus feats, and do a good deal of damage.

First and foremost, could you put that image in your signature if you are going to use it as such?

Secondly, the build you recommended would be better off with pure Bard, focusing on the Snowflake Wardance feat. You've got next to no caster level for either of your spellcasting classes, 6 levels in a class that only gets 1st level spells for that investment, and could have 3rd/4th level Bard spells and could have taken levels in Sublime Chord by now to get higher level spells.

And the damage output of that build isn't going to be spectacular outside of Power Attack.

[DMVerdandi]

This looks nice, but I'm worried about losing BAB from too many wizard levels or losing too many caster levels from Fighter or certain prestige classes.

Is there a way to give the Wizard a higher BAB or a way to give another base class the wizards spell list?

Only homebrew.

If your concern is bab and such, you COULD play as a generic spellcaster.
They have cleric,druid,and wizard spells all on one list. Play it as a sorcerer, and pick up divine power. Problem solved.

Or, if you don't want to do that, pick up the leadership feat, have a generic spellcaster as your cohort, and have him make scrolls of all of the divine spells you want as arcane spells.

Play as a straight wizard and copy those spells over.
Try and get the Eidetic spellcaster ACF for wizard, as spellbooks are too much of a hassle.
The less of an opportunity you give your DM to screw you over, the better.
Go even further and pick up spontaneous divination.


From there, just buff with an eternal wand of divine power, pick some weapon-like spells, and go to town.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

This looks nice, but I'm worried about losing BAB from too many wizard levels or losing too many caster levels from Fighter or certain prestige classes.

Is there a way to give the Wizard a higher BAB or a way to give another base class the wizards spell list?

The standard metric for a Gish (Warrior/Mage character) is at least 16 BAB and 9th level spells (typically 17 levels in a prepared class, or 18 for a spontaneous caster (+1 spellcaster level PrCs count for this)). That is enough to get all your iterative attacks and top spells - you don't really need more BAB at that point since your total Attack Bonus will be increased by items and buffs.

There are several solid Gish builds in this thread, but if you tell us more about what you're looking to get, we'll be able to help you work out something more specific.

[Vaz]

Wu Jen/Incantatrix/Archmage/Spellguard of Silverymoon with Arcane Disciple (Competition) and Magic of the Land.

[gorfnab]

Is there a way to give the Wizard a higher BAB or a way to give another base class the wizards spell list?
Bard 8/ Paladin of Freedom 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 3 - 4th through 9th level spells from Sublime Chord can come from the Bard or Sorc/Wiz spell list.

[Gwazi Magnum]

I took another look at all the classes and possible combinations and I'm currently thinking of this.

Wizard 5/Fighter 1/Eldritch Knight 2

^This is how I'd start since the character would be level 8.

After that I'd probably take all 5 levels of Abjurant Champion.
After that I'm unsure if I should just finish with more Eldritch Knight or take a 2 level dip into Arcane Archer so I can use damaging spells through a weapon and at greater range.

My general goal with this character is to be a competent and capable arcane caster like a wizard can be. But I want to be able to fight in melee without dying easily and being competent.

I also want some kind of ranged combat for when getting close wouldn't work and either bow or ranged spells could fill that.

I also plan to take advantage of Knowledge Devotion.

[Karnith]

Do note that a level in Fighter and a level in Spellsword are basically better than two levels of Eldritch Knight. Fighter 2 is a bit of a wash compared to Eldritch Knight 1, but Spellsword gets you better HD, better saves, and a class feature. Eldritch Knight is what you take when you really just don't have anything else.

I think that Wizard 4/Fighter 2/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 1 would be a better 8th-level build than Wizard 5/Fighter 1/Eldritch Knight 2, though in the long run the latter is a better choice.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Do note that a level in Spellsword is basically strictly better than the second level of Eldritch Knight (I don't know if you need a feat or something off of the first level of Eldritch Knight). Spellsword gets you better HD, better saves, and a class feature. Eldritch Knight is what you take when you really just don't have anything else.

I think that Wizard 4/Fighter 2/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 1 would be a better 8th-level build than Wizard 5/Fighter 1/Eldritch Knight 2.

Yea, but the arcane failure reduction is pointless unless if I go warforged because I plan to go abjurant champion with mage armor and shield on all day long. I understand the 1st level is still better though saves and HD wise though.

My concern with the suggest build too though is the extra level of fighter is taking away a caster level. Plus wizard 5 gives me a bonus feat as well.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

I took another look at all the classes and possible combinations and I'm currently thinking of this.

Wizard 5/Fighter 1/Eldritch Knight 2

^This is how I'd start since the character would be level 8.

After that I'd probably take all 5 levels of Abjurant Champion.
After that I'm unsure if I should just finish with more Eldritch Knight or take a 2 level dip into Arcane Archer so I can use damaging spells through a weapon and at greater range.

My general goal with this character is to be a competent and capable arcane caster like a wizard can be. But I want to be able to fight in melee without dying easily and being competent.

I also want some kind of ranged combat for when getting close wouldn't work and either bow or ranged spells could fill that.

I also plan to take advantage of Knowledge Devotion.

Generally speaking, Archery is something that, to do even competently, you need to focus a fair amount of resources on. On top of that, Arcane Archer doesn't advance casting - taking more than one level, on top of your current build, would deny you access to 9th level spells before getting to epic levels, and that's generally something a Gish wants to avoid. So I'd recommend you stick to spells for ranged combat.

Taking all five levels of Abjurant Champion will definitely help you with both casting and combat. Finishing out with Eldritch Knight won't hurt you, nor would hitting one level of Spellsword. Your build thus far, including Abjurant Champion 5, has a BAB of 10 at level 13, so you can afford to lose 1 point of BAB in your last 7 levels and still get 16. If you finish off with EK (or EK and a one level dip into Spellsword) you'll get 17 BAB and CL 18, which sounds like it would suit your desires.

So something like Wizard 5/Fighter 1/EK 2/AC 5/EK 3-9 or Wizard 5/Fighter 1/EK 2/AC 5/Spellsword 1/EK 3-8 should work. I'd recommend the latter, since you get better hit die and saves, even if you're not going to wear armor.

Edit:

Plus wizard 5 gives me a bonus feat as well.

And if you take this ACF (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard) it can be a Fighter feat.

[Karnith]

Yea, but the arcane failure reduction is pointless unless if I go warforged because I plan to go abjurant champion with mage armor and shield on all day long. I understand the 1st level is still better though saves and HD wise though.
I edited my post to be clearer (at 8th level, one build is better than the other, but if you expect to finish out Abjurant Champion before the campaign is over, then the other becomes a better choice), but Eldritch Knight 2 has worse HD, worse saves, and worse skills than Spellsword 1. Even if you never end up using the Ignore Spell Failure ability, the level is just stronger. Later taking EK is fine, to be clear, because it advances spellcasting and BAB, but Spellsword is so easy to get into and the first level is so good that there's basically no reason not to take it on a gish.

[shadow_archmagi]

Basically I'm looking at making an arcane warrior sort of character.

Currently I'm looking at Duskblade, it seems nice. But the lower spell cap and the limited spells known where I can't find much for range damage are a bit of a turn off.

What about the Ardent? Psionics isn't quite the same as arcane, but flavorwise, it's pretty close, and the Ardent gets 3/4ths BAB and a power list that goes up to 9th, although he doesn't get as many spells per day as he might. One of my favorite characters of all time was an Ardent/Incarnate/Soulmind, and he functioned pretty well both as a melee and as a mage. You get a very limited spell selection though.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Generally speaking, Archery is something that, to do even competently, you need to focus a fair amount of resources on. On top of that, Arcane Archer doesn't advance casting - taking more than one level, on top of your current build, would deny you access to 9th level spells before getting to epic levels, and that's generally something a Gish wants to avoid. So I'd recommend you stick to spells for ranged combat.

Taking all five levels of Abjurant Champion will definitely help you with both casting and combat. Finishing out with Eldritch Knight won't hurt you, nor would hitting one level of Spellsword. Your build thus far, including Abjurant Champion 5, has a BAB of 10 at level 13, so you can afford to lose 1 point of BAB in your last 7 levels and still get 16. If you finish off with EK (or EK and a one level dip into Spellsword) you'll get 17 BAB and CL 18, which sounds like it would suit your desires.

So something like Wizard 5/Fighter 1/EK 2/AC 5/EK 3-9 or Wizard 5/Fighter 1/EK 2/AC 5/Spellsword 1/EK 3-8 should work. I'd recommend the latter, since you get better hit die and saves, even if you're not going to wear armor.

Edit:


And if you take this ACF (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard) it can be a Fighter feat.

I think I'm going to go with the latter, thanks. :)


I edited my post to be clearer (at 8th level, one build is better than the other, but if you expect to finish out Abjurant Champion before the campaign is over, then the other becomes a better choice), but Eldritch Knight 2 has worse HD, worse saves, and worse skills than Spellsword 1. Even if you never end up using the Ignore Spell Failure ability, the level is just stronger. Later taking EK is fine, to be clear, because it advances spellcasting and BAB, but Spellsword is so easy to get into and the first level is so good that there's basically no reason not to take it on a gish.

I get the benefit of spellsword, though the concern is still the 2nd level of fighter taking away more caster levels than needed.


What about the Ardent? Psionics isn't quite the same as arcane, but flavorwise, it's pretty close, and the Ardent gets 3/4ths BAB and a power list that goes up to 9th, although he doesn't get as many spells per day as he might. One of my favorite characters of all time was an Ardent/Incarnate/Soulmind, and he functioned pretty well both as a melee and as a mage. You get a very limited spell selection though.

It's the fact 3/4 BAB is still sub-par and the fact it's spells are so limited.

[Karnith]

I get the benefit of spellsword, though the concern is still the 2nd level of fighter taking away more caster levels than needed.
The second level of Fighter was supposed to be a separate point, sorry. Going off of your build, I was trying to say that Wizard 5/Fighter 1/Eldritch Knight 1/Spellsword 1 is better than Wizard 5/Fighter 1/Eldritch Knight 2.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Ok, currently now I'm working on the feats and ability scores.

My current set-up is:

Race: Human
STR 8, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 20 (18 Base + 2 Levels), WIS 8, CHA 8
Flaws: Poor Reflexes and Inattentive
Feats: Knowledge Devotion, Cardemine Monk (DM said I can use this the monk belt without gaining a level in monk)

Lost on the other feats and I'm debating swapping DEX and STR since I'll be in melee a decent amount. But I'm also worried on my reflex and AC and I know with weapon finesse I can make DEX cover the accuracy.



The second level of Fighter was supposed to be a separate point, sorry. Going off of your build, I was trying to say that Wizard 5/Fighter 1/Eldritch Knight 1/Spellsword 1 is better than Wizard 5/Fighter 1/Eldritch Knight 2.

Alright.

I'll be taking the spell sword level for the bonuses.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Not sure what you mean with the Cardemine Monk stuff, but you might drop some of the Int focus to bump your Strength up. You can compensate some with Weapon Finesse and spells, but it'll suck not being able to take Power Attack-- especially when you can throw out wraithstrike and true strike

[Gwazi Magnum]

Not sure what you mean with the Cardemine Monk stuff, but you might drop some of the Int focus to bump your Strength up. You can compensate some with Weapon Finesse and spells, but it'll suck not being able to take Power Attack-- especially when you can throw out wraithstrike and true strike

Concern with that is the skill points.

With INT 16 starting I gain 2 + 3 + 1 (Human) = 6 Skill points per level.

That's just enough to cover all 6 knowledge types for Knowledge devotion, but leaves concentration and spell craft completely ignored.

[fishyfishyfishy]

Concern with that is the skill points.

With INT 16 starting I gain 2 + 3 + 1 (Human) = 6 Skill points per level.

That's just enough to cover all 6 knowledge types for Knowledge devotion, but leaves concentration and spell craft completely ignored.

If you're concerned about skills, consider taking Able Learner as one of your feats at first level; especially since you will be multi-classing/prestige classing so much.

I wouldn't worry too much about maxing out all of the Knowledge skills tied to creatures. I'm not sure about your experiences, but in most games I have been involved in featured few creatures that could be identified with Dungeoneering. You can get by with spreading out your ranks in the knowledge skills until you have a higher Int mod.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

If you're using Carmendine Monk you'll be getting Int to AC, so you probably won't need so much Dex. Things that force a Ref save are things your buffs protect against, generally speaking. As far as knowledges for Knowledge Devotion go, you won't have to keep them all maxed out at every level, and you can get items to help shore them up, so starting with 16 Int isn't such a loss. Able Learner can help too. With 8 Str you'll really struggle to do damage, since you don't have sneak attack or suchlike to boost your output.

[shadow_archmagi]

It's the fact 3/4 BAB is still sub-par and the fact it's spells are so limited.

3/4ths BAB won't actually put you far behind, since building the same concept via multiclassing means losing a lot of BAB to caster levels (wizard 3/fighter 5, for example, is going on +6 to hit, and is thus basically 3/4ths BAB.)

And while it's true that you get a small list of spells known, they are, at least, good spells, with plenty of wizard-grade save or sucks and utility spells around. It shouldn't be too hard to get a list of spells that are powerful and versatile enough that the shortness of the list doesn't hurt too much.

EDIT: What level does the campaign start at? What level is it expected to end at? These are good things for us to know too.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Ok, so I found that most of my spells were Transmutation so I'm going for Transmutation Specialization. But I'm looking for the kind that has three prohibited schools instead of two, where would I find that again?

+I just compared my wizards current spells know to a sorcerer, the wizard is barely ahead. How much does a wizards expanded spell list depend on other spell books? Or are there other ways to learn spells I'm missing?

I did the basic all 0 level spells with 3 + Int Mod at level 1.
And the +2 spells each level up.


If you're concerned about skills, consider taking Able Learner as one of your feats at first level; especially since you will be multi-classing/prestige classing so much.

I wouldn't worry too much about maxing out all of the Knowledge skills tied to creatures. I'm not sure about your experiences, but in most games I have been involved in featured few creatures that could be identified with Dungeoneering. You can get by with spreading out your ranks in the knowledge skills until you have a higher Int mod.

I ended up just taking the feat Education so they'd always be class skills.


If you're using Carmendine Monk you'll be getting Int to AC, so you probably won't need so much Dex. Things that force a Ref save are things your buffs protect against, generally speaking. As far as knowledges for Knowledge Devotion go, you won't have to keep them all maxed out at every level, and you can get items to help shore them up, so starting with 16 Int isn't such a loss. Able Learner can help too. With 8 Str you'll really struggle to do damage, since you don't have sneak attack or suchlike to boost your output.

Thanks for highlighting this, I swapped it so it's STR 14, DEX 8, INT 20.


3/4ths BAB won't actually put you far behind, since building the same concept via multiclassing means losing a lot of BAB to caster levels (wizard 3/fighter 5, for example, is going on +6 to hit, and is thus basically 3/4ths BAB.)

And while it's true that you get a small list of spells known, they are, at least, good spells, with plenty of wizard-grade save or sucks and utility spells around. It shouldn't be too hard to get a list of spells that are powerful and versatile enough that the shortness of the list doesn't hurt too much.

EDIT: What level does the campaign start at? What level is it expected to end at? These are good things for us to know too.

I get how it's solid, but I personally before going the wizard route.

The campaign started at level 5, I have no idea when it's expected to end.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Ok, so I found that most of my spells were Transmutation so I'm going for Transmutation Specialization. But I'm looking for the kind that has three prohibited schools instead of two, where would I find that again?

Would that be Focused Specialist, from Complete Mage (I think)?



I ended up just taking the feat Education so they'd always be class skills.


In this case I'd recommend Able Learner over Education - it effectively does the same thing as Education, and then more besides. But if the character is already in play I get that retraining may not be an option at your table.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Would that be Focused Specialist, from Complete Mage (I think)?

In this case I'd recommend Able Learner over Education - it effectively does the same thing as Education, and then more besides. But if the character is already in play I get that retraining may not be an option at your table.

That was it, thanks. :)

It's not in play yet, but able learner only cuts the cost in half. I can't increase it to a class skills maximum with a class it's not a class skill for.

I want the knowledge skills maxed.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

That was it, thanks. :)

It's not in play yet, but able learner only cuts the cost in half. I can't increase it to a class skills maximum with a class it's not a class skill for.

I want the knowledge skills maxed.

Class skills remain class skills when you multiclass - they just cost as non-class skills when the class you're advancing doesn't have them on its list. Therefore, since your Wizard levels have them as class skills, their maxima remain HD+3. That's how Able Learner gets the same effect as Education, and more besides.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Ok, this the build I ended up getting. Please tell me what you guys think.
I know it's not well optimized, I'm a bit lost in how to effectively merge casting and front line fighting.

Wizard 5/Fighter 1/Eldritch Knight 1/Spell Sword 1
Future Levels: Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight 7

Race: Human
Attributes: STR 14, DEX 8, CON 14, INT 20, WIS 8, CHA 8

Skills:
Knowledge (Arcana, Dungeoneering, Nature, Religion, Planes, Local) 11 ranks
Concentration 11 ranks
Spellcraft 1 rank

Variants:
-Spontaneous Divination
-Wizard get's Fighter feats
-Transmutation Specialist
-Immediate Magic
-Focused Specialist

Banned Schools: Evocation, Necromancy, Enchantment

Flaws: Poor Reflexes & Inattentive
Feats:
(Flaw) Knowledge Devotion
(Flaw) Carmendine Monk
(Human) Able Learner
(Wizard 1) Power Attack
(Level 1) Improved Initiative
(Level 3) Extend Spell
(Fighter 1) Weapon Focus [Greatsword]
(Level 6) Arcane Mastery
(Eldritch Knight 1) Improved Toughness
(Planned for level 9) Arcane Strike

Gear:
-Monks Belt
-Greatsword +2
-Headband of Intellect +2
-Spell Component Pouch
-Clothing

Spells:
-Level 1: Shield, Mage armour, Orb of Acid Lesser, Identify, Magic Weapon, True Strike, Disguise Self, Jump (Synergy with Thri-Keen party member who has around +30 to Jump), Speed Swim (Sailing based campaign)
-Level 2: Alter Self, Invisibility, Bears Endurance, Bulls Strength
-Level 3: Fly, Spiderskin, Magic Weapon Greater, Water Breathing

[Gwazi Magnum]

Class skills remain class skills when you multiclass - they just cost as non-class skills when the class you're advancing doesn't have them on its list. Therefore, since your Wizard levels have them as class skills, their maxima remain HD+3. That's how Able Learner gets the same effect as Education, and more besides.

Huh, didn't relize it worked that way. Thanks. :)

[Endarire]

Have you seriously considered being a Druid instead? (See the Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=940.0).) You fight well with a lot of natural attacks, never need to lose a caster level, have a permanent, replaceable pet from level 1 (Animal Companion), can heal yourself, and generally do awesome things. And if you go Planar Shepherd (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871574/The_Planar_Shepherd_Handbook), things get even more powerful. (Just don't abuse this power to get infinite wishes, 10x as many turns as your enemies, or, debatably, the ability to cast spells from other class lists because you turn into creatures. And please don't turn this thread into a discussion/debate about whether Wild Shape or shapechange grants casting!)

[Wings of Peace]

What is your starting level? The most optimal setup is going to be something involving Wizard, Abjurant Champion, and Spelldancer but you'll need ten or twelve levels to get that up and running.

[Big Fau]

Ok, so I found that most of my spells were Transmutation so I'm going for Transmutation Specialization. But I'm looking for the kind that has three prohibited schools instead of two, where would I find that again?

An alternative to the Focused Specialist would be the Changeling Wizard substitution levels in Races of Eberron (specifically, the 1st level which lets you specialize in both Transmutation and Illusion, in a method identical to Focused Specialist).

[Gwazi Magnum]

Have you seriously considered being a Druid instead? (See the Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=940.0).) You fight well with a lot of natural attacks, never need to lose a caster level, have a permanent, replaceable pet from level 1 (Animal Companion), can heal yourself, and generally do awesome things. And if you go Planar Shepherd (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871574/The_Planar_Shepherd_Handbook), things get even more powerful. (Just don't abuse this power to get infinite wishes, 10x as many turns as your enemies, or, debatably, the ability to cast spells from other class lists because you turn into creatures. And please don't turn this thread into a discussion/debate about whether Wild Shape or shapechange grants casting!)

I never got why people love Planar Shepard so much?
I can see it lets you build on Druids good stuff, but it's bonuses don't look that special.


What is your starting level? The most optimal setup is going to be something involving Wizard, Abjurant Champion, and Spelldancer but you'll need ten or twelve levels to get that up and running.

Level 8


An alternative to the Focused Specialist would be the Changeling Wizard substitution levels in Races of Eberron (specifically, the 1st level which lets you specialize in both Transmutation and Illusion, in a method identical to Focused Specialist).

I'm mostly limited to core, tome of battle and the completes in terms of races so Changeling wouldn't be an option.

[Karnith]

I never got why people love Planar Shepard so much?
I can see it lets you build on Druids good stuff, but it's bonuses don't look that special.
First, the class advances all of your relevant Druid features, so there is virtually no downside to taking levels in the class.

At Planar Shepherd level 5, you get the Planar Bubble ability, which lets you create an area around yourself that mimics the traits of your attuned plane. Choose a plane with accelerated time such as Dal Quor, and your party can enjoy taking 10 rounds worth of actions to every one of your opponent.

At 9th level, you can wild shape into elementals or outsiders attuned to your chosen plane. This wild shape gives you all of the creature's Extraordinary, Supernatural, and Spell-like abilities. This is, naturally, hilariously broken. For example, if you are attuned to the Elemental Plane of Fire, you can get your party an Efreeti's wish-granting ability every time you Wild Shape.

[Gwazi Magnum]

First, the class advances all of your relevant Druid features, so there is virtually no downside to taking levels in the class.

At Planar Shepherd level 5th, you get the Planar Bubble ability, which lets you create an area around yourself that mimics the traits of your attuned plane. Choose a plane with accelerated time such as Dal Quor, and your party can enjoy taking 10 rounds worth of actions to every one of your opponent.

At 9th level, you can wild shape into elementals or outsiders attuned to your chosen plane. This wild shape gives you all of the creature's Extraordinary, Supernatural, and Spell-like abilities. This is, naturally, hilariously broken. For example, if you are attuned to the Elemental Plane of Fire, you can get your party an Efreeti's wish-granting ability every time you Wild Shape.

Do those abilities have much use though when used non cheese like?

[shadow_archmagi]

Do those abilities have much use though when used non cheese like?

Well, sure. You can maintain the bubble for hours at a time, so there are lots of possibilities outside of cheesy "attack 10 times per their 1." Use the acceleration bubble in a library that the rest of the party can conduct a week's worth of research in a day! (or get a 9 hour rest in one hour) Channel the positive energy plane to heal the entire party to full (and, while you're at it, invite the entire village to hop into the circle for a moment and fix up any injuries they might have). Channel a plane with no natural gravity for a poor man's Flight spell! This is perhaps the most literal version of the old cliche about spellcasters bending the laws of physics: You actually get to import physics from somewhere else!

Plus, even without getting free Wishes, there are tons of great Outsiders.

[Karnith]

Do those abilities have much use though when used non cheese like?
Well, it depends what you mean by "cheese." If you're attuned to a plane with some sort of enhanced magic, Planar Bubble can get your party free metamagic on their spells. If you're attuned to a positive-dominant plane, free fast healing. If you're attuned to a plane with subjective gravity, free flight (albeit limited flight). And so on.

And as for the elemental/outsider wild shape, there are so many relevant forms that it's insane. Virtually every medium-to-high-HD outsider gets a ton of SLAs for free, many of them at-will. You can Wild Shape into elemental/outsider forms with abilities like pounce (on a humanoid form), all forms of movement modes, change shape (for laughs), summon abilities, immunities to all sorts of things, regeneration, constant true seeing, at-will greater teleport, natural invisibility, at-will divination, at-will wall of force, at-will astral projection and etherealness, at-will holy word, at-will polymorph; the list goes on and on. And those are all abilities that you can just get from outsiders and elementals in the Monster Manual. You actively need to limit yourself when selecting forms if you don't want to rock the boat, since you've got an improved Shapechange (which is a spell that's already broken).

Oh, and you can get templated forms, which is just dumb.

Again, all of this is on top of normal druid class abilities (wild shape, animal companion, and spellcasting). It's kinda silly.