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Tormsskull
2006-12-08, 09:10 AM
Demonic Pact [Metamagic]
Requirements: Caster level 3, Knowledge (The Planes) 6 ranks.

Demonic Pact is a metamagic feat that can be applied to other metamagic feats. When using a metamagic feat that raises the spell level, the caster can instead invoke the power of his Demonic Pact, paying part of his life force to a demonic sponsor in lieu of raising the level of the spell. For each level increase negated the caster suffers 5 + the total enhanced level of the metamagicked spell in damage and must make a concentration check. If the check fails the Hit Points & the spell slot are still lost, but the spell fizzles out.

Example: If Alcorvas casts a quickened magic missle (normally a level 5 spell slot) and uses Demonic Pact to reduce it to a level 1 slot (a 4 level decrease), Alcorvas suffers 10 points of damage (5 + 5) and must make a concentration check of 20 in order to successfully complete the spell.

Thoughts/suggestions/comments?

icke
2006-12-08, 09:35 AM
Great idea, a little overpowered, but great. Let it be a concentration check of 10+damage+spell level, the same amount a caster would get for 5 points of damage from any other source.

Also, this feat would only be applicable to arcane casters, since divine casters already get their power from Greater Beings, who have an interest in keeping the caster alive.
Also, this feat can only be balanced if it is applied to d4 hit die casters, since 5 points of damage don't bother anyone else.

I think the feat would be less powerfull if You'd make it 5+original spell level damage, otherwise a 17th-level wizard could zap a maximized meteor swarm at anyone for 15 points of damage without having even to do a concentration check.

Also, one would have to roleplay the pact... :)

magic8BALL
2006-12-10, 11:26 PM
There are epic feats that reduce the severitly of the cost of metamagic feats by one spell level, and you're equating that to 5 points of damage? ...make it (caster level) x (spell level to be increased) points of damage, and then you have somthing to think about before you cast Maximised Meteor Swarm: 51 points of damage, massive damage. (CL 17 x +3 spell level = 51)

This would also stop stacking metamagic feats to the max...

Pyro, the level 20 sorcceror:
"I'll empower a maximised, quickend fireball thanks... *rolls 5d6, adds 60* now I'll empower another maximised fireball... *rolls 5d6, adds 60*"

Origional cost: 70 points of damage

My way: 280 poinst of damage

sure, the origional way will probly take out poor ol' Pyro anyway, but 70hp and two third level slots is no trade off for 10d6+120 points of damage inn one round is it?

icke
2006-12-11, 05:55 AM
magic8BALL:
You should not use the caster level to determine the effect, because most spells have a cap somewhere. Also, the damages You want to are way to high, the caster still has to succeed on a concentration check...


Here's another way to do it: the damage is 5+(spell level the fully of the metamagicked spell), that would be 5+12+17 for maximized meteor swarm. In combination with the concentration check for the spell level the spell is actually cast on(DC:10+17+9=36) this will be enough to make it stale for almost every caster.

What does a caster need to be able to cast this without great risk?

1) Over-average constitution score, for the hit points. A real munchkin wizard of level 20 can get a constitution of 20, no problem. this gives him as many as 152 hit points.
(However, the above average wizard/sorcerer will have a score of 12-16, for an average of 92 hit points at CON 14. I will include th calculations for CON 14 in brackets.)

2) Maximized skill ranks in concentration: 23. Total modifier 28(25), still a 35(50)% chance of the spell to go foul.

3) Feats : at least 3 metamagic feats(to be able to use this one effectively), Demonic Pact, Skill Focus(Concentration)(to bring the failure chance down to 20(35)%)

So if the wizard wants to burn a few feats for the chance that his metamagic spells MIGHT be cast in lower-level spell slots, with failure chance and still substantial hit point loss, I'm fine with that.

Tormsskull
2006-12-11, 06:55 AM
Great idea, a little overpowered, but great. Let it be a concentration check of 10+damage+spell level, the same amount a caster would get for 5 points of damage from any other source.


That's a good idea. I hadn't taken the concentration check into effect.


There are epic feats that reduce the severitly of the cost of metamagic feats by one spell level, and you're equating that to 5 points of damage?

Sorry, I don't play Epic so I didn't know that. The way I am looking at it, a low level spellcaster has, on an approximate average, the following HP (wizard/sorceror):

1 - 4
2 - 7
3 - 10
4 - 13
5 - 16

So for the low levels, using this feat is going to be very dangerous for our casters. In the higher levels, it would be more unbalanced, I suppose. I think maybe it would make more sense to use icke's suggestion about the damage dealt, and then throw in a prereq for the feat since low-level casters aren't going to want to use it anyway.

icke
2006-12-11, 09:55 AM
... and then throw in a prereq for the feat since low-level casters aren't going to want to use it anyway.

If low-level casters will not take it, why do You want to forbid it to them? "Not enough hit points to survive" already is a pretty harsh prerequisite...

I'd still like to know what You have in mind for divine casters, since their higher hit points and different magic source are incompatible with this feat...