A Question about the Belkster?

[F.Harr]

We all know that Belkar is chaotic evil. That's cannon. In the Giant's discription of the off-page fight between Miko and the order, he mentions that Belkar has an abysmal will save. Not that Belkar is pliable by any means, but he is directable. By threats, lies and force of personality, sure, but still directable. Is that will save why? Is Belkar, just a little, week willed and does that explain his hedonism?

[Math_Mage]

We all know that Belkar is chaotic evil. That's cannon. In the Giant's discription of the off-page fight between Miko and the order, he mentions that Belkar has an abysmal will save. Not that Belkar is pliable by any means, but he is directable. By threats, lies and force of personality, sure, but still directable. Is that will save why? Is Belkar, just a little, week willed and does that explain his hedonism?
No. Hedonism is the basis of his intitial character; the will save is at best an explanatory afterthought. Put it this way: it's not that Belkar is Belkar because he has a weak Will save; rather, Belkar has a weak Will save because he's Belkar.

[Kish]

We all know that Belkar is chaotic evil. That's cannon. In the Giant's discription of the off-page fight between Miko and the order, he mentions that Belkar has an abysmal will save. Not that Belkar is pliable by any means, but he is directable. By threats, lies and force of personality, sure, but still directable. Is that will save why? Is Belkar, just a little, week willed and does that explain his hedonism?
Sort of. In that low Wisdom=Will save penalties.

[Sir_Leorik]

We all know that Belkar is chaotic evil. That's cannon.

No it isn't. It is canonical. Canon refers to a body of work; a cannon is a weapon.


In the Giant's discription of the off-page fight between Miko and the order, he mentions that Belkar has an abysmal will save. Not that Belkar is pliable by any means, but he is directable. By threats, lies and force of personality, sure, but still directable. Is that will save why? Is Belkar, just a little, week willed and does that explain his hedonism?

Rangers and Barbarians have poor Base Will Saves; Belkar also has a Wisdom low enough to give him a penalty to his Will Saves. That is offset by his +1 racial bonus to all Saving Throws from being a Halfling, his +2 morale bonus to saving throws against fear from being a halfling, and the +2 morale bonus to Will Saves while Belkar is raging. (The latter does not stack with his +2 morale bonus vs. fear saves.)

What all this boils down to is that Belkar is easy prey to mind-affecting spells that don't invoke fear effects. It says nothing about his personality. It has literally nothing to do with Belkar being easy to fool (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/senseMotive.htm), pliable (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/diplomacy.htm), or susceptible to threats. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/intimidate.htm)

Belkar's hedonism might be a result of his low Wisdom score, but it could easily be an indicator of his Chaotic Evil Alignment. All appearances to the contrary, Belkar has an appreciation for the finer things in life, as he revealed to Haley when they encountered the heavily-templated snail in the Dragon Magazine strip referred to here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0475.html) But Belkar goes beyond an appreciation of good food, drink, art and other things :smallredface:, to the point where he is a glutton who seeks to indulge in what he likes, while taking no account of the needs and desires of those around him.

[F.Harr]

O.K. but it just seems like a way to model a person who's not very savvy, easy to distract and occasionally able to be threatened into not killing Elan.

[Sir_Leorik]

O.K. but it just seems like a way to model a person who's not very savvy, easy to distract and occasionally able to be threatened into not killing Elan.

You would be better off making a character with a low Intelligence and Wisdom and Charisma scores, (stupid, dense, impulsive and lacking empathy) and zero ranks in the Listen, Spot or Sense Motive skills. Roy finds it easy to Intimidate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/intimidate.htm) Belkar because Roy has ranks in Intimidate (Haley has zero ranks, though she gets a +2 synergy bonus to Intimidate from her ranks in Bluff) and Roy gets a +4 bonus for being one size category larger than Belkar.

[KillianHawkeye]

Roy gets a +4 bonus for being one size category larger than Belkar.

Just felt the need to point out that Haley gets that same bonus on account of also being Medium-sized.

[AstralFire]

Roy may get a circumstance bonus (or Haley a circumstance penalty) because Belkar knows that Roy is more prone to commit violence as a solution to a problem, and is capable of doing it upfront rather than having to wait for an opportunity.

[Sylthia]

As stated before, he's multiclassed into 2 classes that both have poor Will saves accompanied by crummy Wis. It also happens to make sense in-character for him to have a poor Will save.

Actually, of the remaining order, only V probably has that great of a Will save.

Roy: Decent Wis, but at this level can't redeem a Fighter's poor Will save progression.
Haley: Average Wisdom accompanied by poor Will save progression
Elan: Good Will save progression for his bard levels and who knows for his Dashing Swordsman levels and poor wisdom, so probably the second best out of the group.
V: Good Will progression, but only average at best Wisdom

[AstralFire]

I actually suspect Elan has a decent Wisdom, just not a high one, and that his personality owes more to low intelligence and an extremely odd world-view. Even in the things in which Elan is specialized (storytelling) he doesn't betray a strong analytical mind, but he DOES have a strong intuitive sense about them. That's partially Charisma, but it's also partially Wisdom.