Help with rogue/beguiler build

[Blane]

Hi guys

So I would love to play a sneaky caster type and it would be great if you could help me with the optimization and fluffing out of the build.

To start the roles I wish to fulfill are twofold: I want to do battlefield control (debuffing etc.) and I want to eliminate opponents with my sneak attack damage (melee not ranged, it's a personal preference)

Basically how do I get 9th level spells and full sneak attack progression as quick as possible using beguiler? Can it be done?

Also I was thinking 1 level cloistered cleric dip with knowledge devotion, is this a good idea?

All thoughts welcome

[Urpriest]

You'd be better off taking Knowledge Devotion as a feat than dipping Cloistered Cleric, since you don't want to lose too many caster levels.

The standard build something like the following:

Rogue 1/Beguiler 4/Unseen Seer X/Other X

Where Unseen Seer is from Complete Mage and Other should be something that gives full casting and either improves your sneak attack (Arcane Trickster) or your BAB (Abjurant Champion).

Note that Beguiler lacks a lot of the nicer buff spells that make you able to survive sneak attacking in melee as a fragile caster. Strongly consider doing this build with Wizard instead of Beguiler: you'll have more range of spells, the same debuff options, and lots of buffs to help you avoid getting hit while in melee.

[Waker]

Where Unseen Seer is from Complete Mage and Other should be something that gives full casting and either improves your sneak attack (Arcane Trickster) or your BAB (Abjurant Champion).
Arcane Trickster would be good, but Beguiler doesn't have Mage Hand on their spell list. Daggerspell Mage is a decentish PrC but you wouldn't get much use out of it since Beguiler spells wouldn't mesh well with the class's channeling ability. Same with Spellwarp Sniper.

[Grod_The_Giant]

The simple answer would be Rogue 3/Beguiler 6/Arcane Trickster 10/Beguiler 1. Though that would lose enough caster levels to not get 9's... you could use Martial Stance to get Assassin's Stance for the 2d6 sneak attack, but that requires IL 5, meaning you couldn't take it until 12th level... maybe Swordsage 2/Beguiler 7 (Martial Stance at character level 9)/Arcane Trickster 10/Beguiler 1.

EDIT: you might be able to use a Hand of the Mage to get the mage hand requirement, or talk your DM into letting you borrow the Eclectic Learning ACF from the Warmage.

If you want light armor casting, you could also try the Battle Sorcerer variant from Unearthed Arcana. -1 spell known/level hurts, but it gets medium BAB and light armor casting.

[Blane]

I do agree, Urpriest, that a wizard might be a better option. However I did think that because the beguiler can wear light armor, it would be better for a melee rogue, especially at lower levels. If I took eclectic learning (houserule) in stead of advanced learning will I be able to get some of those aforementioned buff spells?

As a side note, I am not an experienced player so feel free to point out flaws in my reasoning.

[Urpriest]

I do agree, Urpriest, that a wizard might be a better option. However I did think that because the beguiler can wear light armor, it would be better for a melee rogue, especially at lower levels. If I took eclectic learning (houserule) in stead of advanced learning will I be able to get some of those aforementioned buff spells?

As a side note, I am not an experienced player so feel free to point out flaws in my reasoning.

At lower levels, the Wizard can cast Mage Armor, which is as good as any non-magical light armor. So it's a bit of a wash in that respect. If you really like casting in light armor, if you swapped the Rogue level for Spellthief the Master Spellthief feat from Complete Scoundrel lets you cast in light armor while also increasing your caster level, which you will find useful because Unseen Seer penalizes non-Divination spells (the other way around that is the Practiced Spellcaster feat).

As for Eclectic Learning, it depends on how you do it. By the book, you get it as a class feature, so you wouldn't get it while taking Unseen Seer levels. That means you'd only be adding one or two spells to your list, which leaves out a lot.

In terms of getting in to Arcane Trickster, there is a feat that gives Mage Hand (Spell Hand, Complete Mage) if you want to go that route. But other sneak attacking spellcaster PrCs could be of use. By the way, here is a handbook on the subject, if nobody has linked it yet. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1240)

[Gem]

If you're using Eclectic Learning, can't you just pick up Mage Hand that way? Seems like it'd be easiest.

Depending on your caster progression, I'd also look into a level of Shadow Adept, which gives you some delightful bonus feats. Mostly Caster Level checks to detect you via divination, which, when you're stealthing, can be priceless.

[nedz]

Beguilers can cast in Light Armour, and get Mage Armour anyway.

Beguiler isn't really a combat class, but if you want to do battle field control then you won't have time to do that and fight. It's about action economy.

Now you could grab some useful spells with Arcane Disciple: Glory or Strength domains are cool, for example.

I second the Spellthief 1 / Beguiler 4 / Unseen Seer 10 route, but all of the Beguiler stuff is tricksy not smashy.