Jotunbrud qualify me for knockback?

[Snig]

just wondering if this would work? I'm planning out a 2handed dungeon crashing dwarf. i'd like to take Jotunbrud at 1st lvl to qualify for knockback.

[Barsoom]

No. Jotunbrud is only two-thirds of Powerful Build.

Whenever you receive a modifier based on your size on an opposed roll (such as during grapple and bull rush attempts), you are treated as Large if that's advantageous to you. You are also considered to be Large when determining whether a monster's special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) affect you.
The actual Powerful Build also adds "can wield weapons one size larger"

[Snig]

ok just rolled my stats for a dwarf fighter / dungeoncrasher. Need help distributing them, heres what I got.

17
16
12
14
11
12

[StreamOfTheSky]

No. Jotunbrud is only two-thirds of Powerful Build.

The actual Powerful Build also adds "can wield weapons one size larger"

So what if you combined the feat with the Strongarm Bracers from MIC, which are "the wield larger weapons part of Powerful Build, but nothing else." To the extent that it explicitly doesn't stack with powerful build for weapon size. Then you would have all "3/3" of powerful build, just not all from a single source.

[Cog]

It still doesn't matter, because only Goliaths can qualify with Powerful Build; everybody else needs actual Large size.

[Slipperychicken]

Half-Giant, or Half-Minotaur should bump you up to Large size IIRC. You also get some nasty stat boosts in there.

Maybe you could talk to your DM about just letting Jotunbrud work? I mean, if you have giant's blood anyway and are treated as one size bigger for everything, that would logically make it work.

[Barsoom]

So what if you combined the feat with the Strongarm Bracers from MIC, which are "the wield larger weapons part of Powerful Build, but nothing else." To the extent that it explicitly doesn't stack with powerful build for weapon size. Then you would have all "3/3" of powerful build, just not all from a single source.

Interesting question. I believe not. Even though you actually have all three abilities, you don't have the ability called Powerful Build.

Just like if you had some special ability that gave you a +2 bonus to Will saves, you still can't qualify for feats that require "Iron Will", even though the effects are identical.

But, you know what, as a DM I'd let it slide.

[shadow_archmagi]

By RAW, no. You do not have Powerful Build, and the feat says that only Large, or Powerful Build will work.

That said, unless your DM is the king of pedantic town, he should let Jotunbrud qualify, since it's pretty clearly in the same vein as powerful build. If your DM is the king of pedantic town, tell him to let my people go.

[Perseus]

Half-Minotaur Dragonborn Dwarf would be one hell of a beast at LA +1... Buy that off as soon as you can and you will be rocking it.

(As a DM I allow 1 LA to any class that is tier 4 or under)

Size = Large
Speed = 30 Feet
Fly Speed = 30 Feet

Put on some Stone Plate and go to town. I think the Dwarven ability to not be encumbered stays active when you go dragon born... But I may be wrong about that.

Might as well take Mage Slayer and Pierce Magical Concealment.

And look into Shock Trooper, Leap Attack, and the Valorous Weapon enhancement if you want to charge.

There is a feat ... Forget what book but it allows a dwarf to ignore difficult terrain when they charge. It is the same feat for warforged.

[Zombulian]

It still doesn't matter, because only Goliaths can qualify with Powerful Build; everybody else needs actual Large size.

Half Giants have powerful build :smallfrown: THEY CAME FIRST GOSH DARNIT

[Darth Stabber]

I think the Dwarven ability to not be encumbered stays active when you go dragon born... But I may be wrong about that.

Nope, you lose it, but it's worth it for the fly speed.

[INoKnowNames]

I'm going to bump this thread, rather than make a new one over a similar subject: are Goliaths the only thing that can qualify for Knock Back without actually being large?

Are there any substitutes (that don't have a limit on use) that are usable by a medium sized character human?

[Zombulian]

I'm going to bump this thread, rather than make a new one over a similar subject: are Goliaths the only thing that can qualify for Knock Back without actually being large?

Are there any substitutes (that don't have a limit on use) that are usable by a medium sized character?

WHAT DID I FREAKING SAY

[INoKnowNames]

WHAT DID I FREAKING SAY

Pardon me, I'm sorry to not specify. I meant on a Human. My bad for not sharing that.

[Zombulian]

Pardon me, I'm sorry to not specify. I meant on a Human. My bad for not sharing that.

Ohhhh. Okay yeah. No I don't think Powerful Build is something one can get from templates/feats.

[INoKnowNames]

Ohhhh. Okay yeah. No I don't think Powerful Build is something one can get from templates/feats.

It doesn't have to be Powerful Build. It just has to be the ability to push a foe back from you (enough to be able to charge them) during an Attack Roll.

Specifically, during White Raven Hammer, if that helps provide any more context.

[Zombulian]

It doesn't have to be Powerful Build. It just has to be the ability to push a foe back from you (enough to be able to charge them) during an Attack Roll.

Specifically, during White Raven Hammer, if that helps provide any more context.

...So I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. Though there is a Monk PrC in Dragon Compendium that lets you bull rush without actually moving on your own.

[INoKnowNames]

...So I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. Though there is a Monk PrC in Dragon Compendium that lets you bull rush without actually moving on your own.

I'm asking (and this part I thought I had made clear): If there's no way for a Human to qualify for Knock Back without changing Races, is there another feat, spell, (non-single use) magic item, or weapon enhancement, that would achieve a similar effect?

[Karnith]

If there's no way for a Human to qualify for Knock Back without changing Races
Permanencied Enlarge Person?

[INoKnowNames]

Permanencied Enlarge Person?

How does Enlarge Person push enemies back without you moving?

[Karnith]

How does Enlarge Person push enemies back without you moving?
It qualifies you for Knockback while still being human, sorry for being unclear (I've edited my post). Was that not the goal? Or do you additionally not want to be Large?

[INoKnowNames]

It qualifies you for Knockback while still being human, sorry for being unclear (I've edited my post). Was that not the goal?

Wow. How did I not figure out that was what you meant.

I would have preferred the character to remain Medium Sized, if possible, but a workable answer is better than no answer. Does Enlarge Person have to be made permanent? Or could Knock Back simply apply when Enlarge Person is in use? (Why does that feat have to have a size requirement anyway... stupid size requirement)

[Karnith]

I would have preferred the character to remain Medium Sized, if possible, but a workable answer is better than no answer. Does Enlarge Person have to be made permanent? Or could Knock Back simply apply when Enlarge Person is in use? (Why does that feat have to have a size requirement anyway... stupid size requirement)
To the best of my knowledge, if you were Large when you were able to select the feat, you would keep the feat even if you ceased to be Large, and it would effectively turn on/off depending on your size. See e.g. here in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#prerequisites).

Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite.

A character can’t use a feat if he or she has lost a prerequisite.(Emphasis mine)

After you have selected a feat, you lose the ability to use it if you no longer meet the prereqs, but you still retain the feat, and you will be able to use the feat if you are able to meet the prerequisites again.

So, if you got Enlarge Person permanencied until you leveled up, and then had it dispelled or dismissed or whatever after you selected the Knockback feat, you would get Knockback whenever an effect made you Large. Alternately, you could Chaos Shuffle/Psychic Reformation a feat into Knockback while under the effects of an Enlarge Person spell.