Its a Trap!

[slithas]

Hi there all,

I'm DMing a 3.5 campaign and I'm having some trouble thinking around an upcoming event. The party pissed off an entire country a while back by 'accidently' sacrificing the son of the most powerful man alive, and this man sent nine of his best men to kill them. Thus far they've managed to avoid any big confrontations, dealing with only three or four at any one time, but they're going to step into a killbox soon, and even though they'll be fully aware it's a trap, they're going to go in anyway.

A while back the party cleric got a wristband attatched to her by one of the men trying to kill them; at this time they encountered one another away from everyone else and had a nice little chat before he put it on her. Of course he's using it to track her location and see when she's with the rest of the party, and will simply request they go meet him at a certain location, and even though he's an enemy and trying to kill them, they'll still walk blindly in.

My problem with this one over the other times they've fought is that this time the party is walking into their territory instead of fighting in their own or neutral territory. The persuers will have set up as foilproof a plan as possible, working off their previous encounters with the group. They know the group likes to teleport out of trouble so they'd use a Dimensional Anchor on the Cleric, cast Light on the Shadowdancer (or just use Sovereign Glue to stick on something with Light cast upon it), and disarm the fighter as quickly as possible, and try to keep people between the members so they can't heal or flank/sneak attack. The party would be in way over their heads and killed very quickly.

The party consists of four level 13 characters; a Cleric who focuses on ranged attacks, a Rogue/Shadowdancer, and a Sorcerer/Dragon Deciple/Fighter who is the normal party tank, and a Ranger Warforged they hired controlled by me. The nine they'd be going up against are all level 12 bar one who is a level 16 rogue/assassin. Luckily for the party, and unbeknownst to anyone, the rogue/assassin is actually trying to keep the party alive for personal reasons, but he can't let the others know that.

The scenario itself would follow as such; They'd be called to an old abandoned dungeon, and once they're in the first main room they'd be hit quickly with the Dimensional Anchor and Light, and the gate out would be closed by a lever elsewhere, with one of the chaser's tanks blocking the path just incase. The remaining members of the chasers, along with a few meatshields under their charge, would confront the party, offer them a quick death, and then fight it out with them until one side is defeated (highly likely the party).

Normally I'd try to avoid scenarios like this, but they've managed to garner the rather undivided attention of the father of the man they killed who has a whole army at his disposal, and have pretty much handed the enemy a way to track and locate them. From a story-based perspective (and the game is very heavily story-based now) it wouldn't make sense not to make use of the resources at their disposal and do this.

tl;dr:
I run a party of idiots who are going to get themselves killed by walking into a trap they know is a trap. I know this becuase they've done it before. Three times.

Any suggestions on what I could do or offer the party so it doesn't end up as a TPK? I'm happy to give any more information that may be of use to you.

Thanks in advance.

[Perseus]

If they know it is a trap and they walk in there... TPK is NOT your fault.

Do it but have the lvl 16 guy have a few scrolls of raise dead. Raise them and leave a note for them to lay low... Their new benefactor needs them alive.

[slithas]

Alright, cheers, that gives me some ideas on how it can play out thereafter :)

[Kornaki]

Remember, DnD is all about toeing the fine line of TPK. And I don't mean the party using their wits and magics to execute daring dungeon raids, I mean that the players will try to find the line of stupidity which they can nudge up to without you deciding to kill them off and try to sit on it. So if you feel they crossed your line you can either kill them or watch them do the same thing forever and ever.

Having the rogue raise dead them gives the double benefit of punishing them with a lost level and forcing them to advance the plot

[Darth Stabber]

Somethings have to be learned the hard way. I echo the above sentiments, let a fool die a fool's death. If they believe that they are above death, they will start acting like it, and you DO NOT want that. Have their new patron bail them out if you want, but ensure it is impressed upon them (either in or out of character) that they may not be so lucky in the future.

[Killer Angel]

Overconfidence is a very bad adventure's companion.



tl;dr:
I run a party of idiots who are going to get themselves killed by walking into a trap they know is a trap. I know this becuase they've done it before. Three times.


Be prepared: in case of death, your players will probably accuse you of being unfair... :smallsigh:

[Perseus]

Overconfidence is a very bad adventure's companion.



Be prepared: in case of death, your players will probably accuse you of being unfair... :smallsigh:

My group did that to the DM once, I was the only one on the side of the DM.

The party of level 10's decided that attacking the Druid Lich was a good idea. Even after I said to leave me out of their plans. Hell the much up to that point was being helpful and was generally a decent NPC, somewhat like a Malack. He curbstomped my party and while my character and him had tea the rest of the party was being reincarnated by his druid cohort.

1 monk 1 wizard and a cleric (each lvl 10) vs. 1 level 20 druid lich...

Called the DM unfair and said I was a traitor for not helping. I was a level 8 Druid... I'm sure I would have made a difference.:smallsigh:

Hell they caught him in the lich's fricken training room for heaven's sake! So many traps... Haha

[slithas]

Overconfidence is a very bad adventure's companion.


tl;dr:
I run a party of idiots who are going to get themselves killed by walking into a trap they know is a trap. I know this becuase they've done it before. Three times.

Be prepared: in case of death, your players will probably accuse you of being unfair... :smallsigh:

I wouldn't call them overconfident, they're well aware that they're not the best out of there and they're always digging the hole deeper for themselves, but they just keep on digging and I don't think they even know why.

And I don't think they'd blame me, they are an understanding bunch. They're aware it's a trap and the number of times I've saved their asses I'm sure they can understand when they've burnt all their bridges :)


Thanks all for your opinions on me killing them :P

[Perseus]

I wouldn't call them overconfident, they're well aware that they're not the best out of there and they're always digging the hole deeper for themselves, but they just keep on digging and I don't think they even know why.

And I don't think they'd blame me, they are an understanding bunch. They're aware it's a trap and the number of times I've saved their asses I'm sure they can understand when they've burnt all their bridges :)


Thanks all for your opinions on me killing them :P

I think I see a problem. You bailed them out to much and the expect it.

Remember not every story of the heroes turns out happily ever after, look at Greek mythology! Perseus is about the only hero to have a happy ending :p

[ILetGoOfTheRope]

Personally I would have the party hunting them capture them alive and return them to the powerful man so he can watch them torture and die (not uncommon for ppl who want revenge to be able to witness it.) This also gives the party a way out it can lead to a jail break / escape encounter which can be very entertaining. If your worried about teleport use some sort of dimensional anchoring shackles of some kind and make them get soo far away to have the time to properly remove them or have them have a lingering effect. This will also give your party the feeling that they escaped on their own.

P.S. if you do kill them logic would dictate that any winning force would not only loot any and all items of value (the party would) but also be required to bring back a trophy of some sort most likely their heads to collect the reward.

[slithas]

I think I see a problem. You bailed them out to much and the expect it.

Remember not every story of the heroes turns out happily ever after, look at Greek mythology! Perseus is about the only hero to have a happy ending :p

I have let them die and such in the past, I've just avoided a TPK or helped them figure a way for the last one standing to get out of there, but in those scenarios they were normally up against only one or two people so it was more feasable then. They have given up before when they realised the odds were against them in a fight. I'm certain the Fighter will whip out his Rod of Wonder and hope he rolls something good as a last ditch effort.


Personally I would have the party hunting them capture them alive and return them to the powerful man so he can watch them torture and die (not uncommon for ppl who want revenge to be able to witness it.) This also gives the party a way out it can lead to a jail break / escape encounter which can be very entertaining. If your worried about teleport use some sort of dimensional anchoring shackles of some kind and make them get soo far away to have the time to properly remove them or have them have a lingering effect. This will also give your party the feeling that they escaped on their own.

P.S. if you do kill them logic would dictate that any winning force would not only loot any and all items of value (the party would) but also be required to bring back a trophy of some sort most likely their heads to collect the reward.

Aye, I thought of that too. Grab a resurrection for each and a finger or something from their bodies and bring them back after they've been taken back. They'd loose all of their items with them but they do have backups elsewhere, and eventually they'd turn to trying to find or catch their own chasers to get back their old loot they may be using.

If they are given the option to surrender and they'll be taken back to be tourtured and killed, I think they may take that in the hopes of breaking out along the way. On the same note, I don't think the chasing characters would want to keep them alive in fear that would happen unless it was an explicit order from the man who wants them, or they were certain they couldn't make a break for it at some point. It is another thing to think about though, thanks.

[Fouredged Sword]

I agree with the assassin taking a finger off of each of them to resurrect later. It makes for an easy way to keep them "alive" without having to betray his alliance.

Also, have an animal messenger get to them a day before they fall into the trap. It tells them they are walking into a trap and to avoid it. This saves the assassin a lot of trouble if they listen. If not, he is prepared to kill anyone taken alive to keep them from talking until he can revive them.

[TheTinyMan]

I'd also let them die, if they do indeed die, and have the villain Raise Dead to torture them, if he's that kind of vengeful. Maybe their stuff is sitting in a wizard's tower for identification, or it's been identified and their guards are using it. I'd suggest trying to take them alive, but enemies that are that strong are probably smart enough to realize just how risky that really is.

"Mysterious happenings" during the battle might not be remiss, either - how badly does this assassin want them alive? Would he place traps that his own side would fall into, or sabotage gear, or hide a cache of powerful potions and scrolls where the party will find it? For that matter, he could potentially sabotage the gate, or set up beneficial traps that could be triggered innocuously.

The animal messenger is a great idea. The messenger could also bring detailed plans regarding the enemy's strategy. For that matter, some kind of crazed seer could stop them in the streets - "You smell of death and prophecy! If you don't heed my words, you're all going to die tomorrow!" and give an uncannily accurate picture of the opposition's tactical preparations.

There might also be additional enemies-of-my-enemy that get wind of what's going on, and move in to help, even if that help consists only of helping them escape...and expect quite a bit in return.

On the other hand, you say that they've done this several times before. At a certain point, the party *does* need to meet with clear failure. Depending on your players that could mean anything from being routed (which sounds like it wouldn't be a punishment for this group), to a near-total TPK (still doesn't seem like it would faze them), to waking up in a prison with their stuff dispersed to the winds (ouch!), or even a full TPK.

[slithas]

Thanks for all your ideas!

The assassin wants them alive very much, as he belives they are a vital part of a prophecy leading to him getting his ultimate goal in life.

Thinking this through and how the chaser's would try to capture them alive, I came to the conclusion that they'd have a bunch of Flesh to Stone spells/scrolls ready to use against them, and turning them into statues to allow safer transportation back to the villain, where they could be Stone to Flesh'ed in the safety of a jail cell, but they'd still have all of their items on them if that happened. Anti-magic zone should help them there, preparedly chain them up and pull them down to the block for an execution by the villain himself.

[denthor]

A quick question when they sacrificed the nobles son. Did alignments start to change?

Do they know they are no longer good but verging on Chaoctic and most likely evil.

If not then rather than a TPK once they are in the trap have the other side give them a choice fight or take an attonement for all of your misdeeds.

Then if they choose to fight there grave has been dug by themselves

[slithas]

A quick question when they sacrificed the nobles son. Did alignments start to change?

Do they know they are no longer good but verging on Chaoctic and most likely evil.

If not then rather than a TPK once they are in the trap have the other side give them a choice fight or take an attonement for all of your misdeeds.

Then if they choose to fight there grave has been dug by themselves

It was the Cleric who performed the deed mostly, and as she sacrificed to a Devil she ended up Lawful Evil. However, since that time (when they were level 8) she has done everything she can to try and redeem herself to the point now where she can worship Heironious again. The party's alignment has caused some confusion amongst their persuers as she went from Lawful Evil toward Lawful Good, the Rogue/Shadowdancer is wholly Chaotic Evil, and the Fighter is Chaotic Good. Yes, it's a very strange mix to have all opposite corners covered by a party, but they work well together (well, better then when alone) and story-wise they know they're rather bound to keep fighting together.

However the villain is Lawful Evil and unwilling to forgive them under any circumstance, even if members of the chasers had doubts (which some do) they know he is far too powerful to stand up against.

Thanks for your reply! :)

[Zubrowka74]

If I was part of the party myself I'd suggest getting Simulacrums (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/simulacrum) cast (or its lesser version, but this is risky) and sending them to be slaughtered. Can the homing device be transfered ?

[Killer Angel]

Hell they caught him in the lich's fricken training room for heaven's sake! So many traps... Haha

At least, for the Lich was an unexpected distraction... :smallbiggrin:

[Scow2]

The party might be able to dissuade the guys from killing them, if they point out that the employerguy is nobody without an army.

If the party knows they're going into a trap, they need to plan for that and make sure they have contingencies to get out and have countermeasures for what they expect to be used against them.

[Andvare]

Flashback to Knight of the Dinner Table.

Or the old "stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?"

[137beth]

Yea, I'm gonna toss another vote for "let them be killed." They might find a way out if they prepare before going in (which doesn't seem likely, though), but they deserve at least to lose a level and gear from the assassin bringing them back to life.

[denthor]

It was the Cleric who performed the deed mostly, and as she sacrificed to a Devil she ended up Lawful Evil. However, since that time (when they were level 8) she has done everything she can to try and redeem herself to the point now where she can worship Heironious again. The party's alignment has caused some confusion amongst their persuers as she went from Lawful Evil toward Lawful Good, the Rogue/Shadowdancer is wholly Chaotic Evil, and the Fighter is Chaotic Good. Yes, it's a very strange mix to have all opposite corners covered by a party, but they work well together (well, better then when alone) and story-wise they know they're rather bound to keep fighting together.

However the villain is Lawful Evil and unwilling to forgive them under any circumstance, even if members of the chasers had doubts (which some do) they know he is far too powerful to stand up against.Thanks for your reply! :)


It took me a while to come up with this solution.


Have the devil that accepted the sacrifice make them another offer.

He will grant them power/fight with them/remove the tracking device all they have to do is... More of them become evil they accept a quest to retrive an item.

Futher them down the path they willing chose.

[Greasy]

Thanks for all your ideas!

The assassin wants them alive very much, as he belives they are a vital part of a prophecy leading to him getting his ultimate goal in life.

Thinking this through and how the chaser's would try to capture them alive, I came to the conclusion that they'd have a bunch of Flesh to Stone spells/scrolls ready to use against them, and turning them into statues to allow safer transportation back to the villain, where they could be Stone to Flesh'ed in the safety of a jail cell, but they'd still have all of their items on them if that happened. Anti-magic zone should help them there, preparedly chain them up and pull them down to the block for an execution by the villain himself.

Careful, playing with Prophecy can be difficult. You may find yourself working more with DM magic than game magic, and your PC's could become frustrated with that. Instead of Prophecy, you could make it so that he is to capture them somehow, until he can get a Cleric there to verify it is truly them. Allow the Cleric to be the vessel of whatever god you choose, and that god wants something, sort of like prophecy, without you writing everything in stone.

Sorry for suggesting a straight forward path, but I believe my suggestion opens up a lot more ways of freedom for both you and the party for on the fly improv.

[kreenlover]

Careful, playing with Prophecy can be difficult. You may find yourself working more with DM magic than game magic, and your PC's could become frustrated with that

Assassin THINKS they are the prophecy. Not at all means that they are. He still wants to keep them alive in case.

I agree with most people. Let them die, have them resurrected at the villains base minus one hand or finger or small piece, and everyone goes WTF? so, the villain tortures them, removes body parts 'To the Pain' style, then turns them lose minus everything. They also are Greater Bestow Curse-d so that magic cannot heal their wounds, cannot re-grow their lost limbs.
Have the assassin approach them, make him offer them a deal: he kills and resurrects them in exchange for performing quest, for this that, for yadda yadda whatever.
Also, agree with the animal messenger.

and finally, because I couldn't resist, and because it is the reason I came here any ways:
This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA) :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[slithas]

Thanks again all for your input!

It certainly seems like "Kill 'em" is the favoured route :P


Thanks for your reply! :)


It took me a while to come up with this solution.


Have the devil that accepted the sacrifice make them another offer.

He will grant them power/fight with them/remove the tracking device all they have to do is... More of them become evil they accept a quest to retrive an item.

Futher them down the path they willing chose.

Sounds good, the Devil would have some inkling of what's going on anyway and very much desires their souls.



Careful, playing with Prophecy can be difficult. You may find yourself working more with DM magic than game magic, and your PC's could become frustrated with that.
Assassin THINKS they are the prophecy. Not at all means that they are. He still wants to keep them alive in case.

I agree with most people. Let them die, have them resurrected at the villains base minus one hand or finger or small piece, and everyone goes WTF? so, the villain tortures them, removes body parts 'To the Pain' style, then turns them lose minus everything. They also are Greater Bestow Curse-d so that magic cannot heal their wounds, cannot re-grow their lost limbs.
Have the assassin approach them, make him offer them a deal: he kills and resurrects them in exchange for performing quest, for this that, for yadda yadda whatever.
Also, agree with the animal messenger.

Yeah, he's kept an eye on them long enough to think they're the ones involved, but it's very Macbeth in such that prophetic riddles that make little sense or seem impossible make him feel secure in his choices when he shouldn't be.

The Curse is a good idea too, would also make them highly cautious if they do get out and it still afflicts them if they can't remove it immediately.


and finally, because I couldn't resist, and because it is the reason I came here any ways:
This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA) :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

That's what I was aiming for ;)


"Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?"

That's definately the party's motto.

[137beth]

Well, tell us what ends up happening!

[slithas]

Well, tell us what ends up happening!

Sure thing! :)

It'll be a little while before it happens, we've got a break while some party members are away on holiday, it'll likely be some time next week :)