Continual Flame on a Rope

[Drachasor]

I've never seen this discussed anywhere.

If you cast Continual Flame on a rope, does the whole rope have flame coming from it or does just a tiny bit of the rope have flame coming from it?

I don't believe the spell is remotely clear on how it handles large objects. A tree or enormous statue raises the same questions.

[Flickerdart]

It says that the flame springs forth from an object, which sounds like it is localized to the spot you touched rather than engulfing the entire thing.

[Thurbane]

It says it brings forth a flame like that of a torch, so I think entirely reasonable to restrict it to a roughly torch-flame sized area of the rope.

RAW, I believe you would cast this spell on a Colossal statue and the whole thing would glow.

[Valthonis]

If I was to make a ruling, I would agree with the above responses...though if I wanted to be a little silly I would say that the entire object would glow; however, the total brightness would be equivalent to that of a single torch.

EDIT: I would even consider saying that multiple castings on a large object would increase the brightness! But I also heavily favor strange use of spells that may or may not bend the rules a little.

[supermonkeyjoe]

Seeing as the spell says


A flame, equivalent in brightness to a torch, springs forth from an object that you touch.

I would say the burning area would be about the same size as a torch flame

[Drachasor]

To play Devil's Advocate, I would point out the a flame covering the whole object would still be a flame. By the brightness rules if it was as bright as a torch than that means torch-equivalent light would come from any square it was in. Since multiple light sources don't stack, it wouldn't be any brighter than a torch as far as the game is concerned.

[Valthonis]

To play Devil's Advocate, I would point out the a flame covering the whole object would still be a flame. By the brightness rules if it was as bright as a torch than that means torch-equivalent light would come from any square it was in. Since multiple light sources don't stack, it wouldn't be any brighter than a torch as far as the game is concerned.

Oh I completely agree! I was just offering an alternative, rule-bendy response :)

[Fouredged Sword]

Yes, but if you say the whole object glows, some idiot will cast it on the ground and suddenly the whole plane is glowing.

Then NOBODY gets any sleep.

Someone would have done it long ago, and the plane isn't glowing, so it doesn't work that way.

[Drachasor]

Yes, but if you say the whole object glows, some idiot will cast it on the ground and suddenly the whole plane is glowing.

Then NOBODY gets any sleep.

Someone would have done it long ago, and the plane isn't glowing, so it doesn't work that way.

This does not seem to be how floors work (or planes for that matter).

Though, this does bring up the point that what exactly a single object is can be rather ill-defined.

[Tvtyrant]

Yes, but if you say the whole object glows, some idiot will cast it on the ground and suddenly the whole plane is glowing.

Then NOBODY gets any sleep.

Someone would have done it long ago, and the plane isn't glowing, so it doesn't work that way.

Or someone just dispels it each time.

[Flickerdart]

The simple solution is that any plane that has ground is actually a giant turtle.

[Drachasor]

The simple solution is that any plane that has ground is actually a giant turtle.

Hmm, flying giant turtles...

[CaladanMoonblad]

some uses for a continual flame rope...


wrap it up under your carriage, to give it "neon lights" effect

wrap it around a sign so everyone who enters the village of "Thorndale" know it, even at night

use the rope as a hangman's noose, for an extra special theatrical effect when carrying out a murderer's death

now you can night climb in safety!

with enough rope, you can spell out words to goad any local dragons doing night flying

similar to the carriage idea, tack the rope behind areas in a church to make the architecture "pop" to the visual eye

[Crasical]

Someone would have done it long ago, and the plane isn't glowing, so it doesn't work that way.

This seems like a fallacy to me.

[Valthonis]

The simple solution is that any plane that has ground is actually a giant turtle.

Colour of Magic reference? :D

[nedz]

Colour of Magic reference? :D

It's Turtles all the way down.

The meme is much older than Pratchet.

[Valthonis]

It's Turtles all the way down.

The meme is much older than Pratchet.

Failsauce on my part... @_@ Well at least I learned something today?

[Big Fau]

This does not seem to be how floors work (or planes for that matter).

Though, this does bring up the point that what exactly a single object is can be rather ill-defined.

I think it was addressed that for certain things (IIRC, anything larger than Colossal) each 5ft space that makes it up is considered a separate object. I want to say the rules regarding Atropus involved it, but it may have been printed in the RC.

[CaladanMoonblad]

I think it was addressed that for certain things (IIRC, anything larger than Colossal) each 5ft space that makes it up is considered a separate object. I want to say the rules regarding Atropus involved it, but it may have been printed in the RC.

Ships (Stormwrack) and walls (Stronghold Builder's Guide) are broken up into sections.

[Drachasor]

Ships (Stormwrack) and walls (Stronghold Builder's Guide) are broken up into sections.

Walls in the DMG are broken into 10'x10' sections for damage...though how thickness factors in is less clear. Is solid rock broken into 10' cubes for damage? Or 10'x10'x5' rectangular prisms?

Beyond that, just because it is broken up that way for damage doesn't mean it is or isn't one object, I don't believe. And how this might apply to a very large statue or something is less than clear. For instance, if you want to drill a hole in something, it's pretty clear that you might need to be able to do damage (technically speaking), but you aren't damaging a whole section at once.

[Slipperychicken]

Ships (Stormwrack) and walls (Stronghold Builder's Guide) are broken up into sections.

If one could cast Continual Flame on 10x10 wall segments, that could get pretty baller. Like if you placed custom-made stencils over the wall segment, you could display messages and create all kinds of cool effects.

[nedz]

If one could cast Continual Flame on 10x10 wall segments, that could get pretty baller. Like if you placed custom-made stencils over the wall segment, you could display messages and create all kinds of cool effects.

Put your Continual Flame in a box, with a stencil on one side and project your message onto an opposing wall.

[Drachasor]

I will say that part of the reason I ask is because I'm not sure how I'd handle this as a DM.

I do think the "just a little torch of light where you touched" is really lame. I'd be more inclined to limit its effect to a certain footage. Though if it was 5ft, then spending 500gp for 50ft of lighted rope is ridiculous. Heck, even 500gp for 100ft of lighted rope seems notably overpriced to me.

[Jack_Simth]

I will say that part of the reason I ask is because I'm not sure how I'd handle this as a DM.

I do think the "just a little torch of light where you touched" is really lame. I'd be more inclined to limit its effect to a certain footage. Though if it was 5ft, then spending 500gp for 50ft of lighted rope is ridiculous. Heck, even 500gp for 100ft of lighted rope seems notable overpriced to me.
And therein lies the problem. Although you can cheat your way out of the components with Shadow Evocation.

[Vedhin]

I will say that part of the reason I ask is because I'm not sure how I'd handle this as a DM.

I do think the "just a little torch of light where you touched" is really lame. I'd be more inclined to limit its effect to a certain footage. Though if it was 5ft, then spending 500gp for 50ft of lighted rope is ridiculous. Heck, even 500gp for 100ft of lighted rope seems notable overpriced to me.

Summon Monster IV can summon a Lantern Archon, which has Continual Flame as an at-will spell like ability; this bypasses both cost and casting time.

[Jack_Simth]

Summon Monster IV can summon a Lantern Archon, which has Continual Flame as an at-will spell like ability; this bypasses both cost and casting time.

A common thought, but the Summoning Subschool (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#summoning) puts a nix to that:

Summoning

A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower. It is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can’t be summoned again.

When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have, and it refuses to cast any spells that would cost it XP, or to use any spell-like abilities that would cost XP if they were spells. (emphasis added)

As Continual Flame is Permanent, rather than Instant, this doesn't work. Lesser Planar Ally or Lesser Planar Binding can do what you want, though.

[Vedhin]

Well color me surprised. I knew about the XP thing, but I apparently never noticed the "expires when summoning ends" bit.

[TuggyNE]

Well color me surprised. I knew about the XP thing, but I apparently never noticed the "expires when summoning ends" bit.

For what it's worth, it's not entirely clear that SLAs qualify as spells for that. I've waffled on the issue myself. (It would probably be more sensible if they did, of course.)

[Jack_Simth]

For what it's worth, it's not entirely clear that SLAs qualify as spells for that. I've waffled on the issue myself. (It would probably be more sensible if they did, of course.)
That's answered as part of The Definition of spell-like abilities (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spellLikeAbilities):
Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A few spell-like abilities are unique; these are explained in the text where they are described.

A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus or have an XP cost. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability’s use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.

A spell-like ability takes the same amount of time to complete as the spell that it mimics (usually 1 standard action) unless otherwise stated. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell:
(emphasis added)

There's no exception for the end-of-summon expiration issue, so the effects of spell-like abilities inherit the clause from spells.

[Ashtagon]

Let's say you have a rope with continual light on its entire length. Let's suppose you are dumb enough to actually climb it at night.

a) You just broadcast your location to every critter for miles. They'll be attracted like moths to a flame.
b) You just scrrewed up your night-time vision. What you've done is essentially equivalent to staring directly at a burning torch for the entire duration of your climb. It'll take a minute or two (barring dark/low-light vision tricks) to adjust enough to see much of anything at night after that.

So, encounter with level-inappropriate flying monsters mid-way up a climb (I'm assuming you can't fly) while half-blind. Having fun yet?

[Jack_Simth]

Let's say you have a rope with continual light on its entire length. Let's suppose you are dumb enough to actually climb it at night.

a) You just broadcast your location to every critter for miles. They'll be attracted like moths to a flame.
b) You just scrrewed up your night-time vision. What you've done is essentially equivalent to staring directly at a burning torch for the entire duration of your climb. It'll take a minute or two (barring dark/low-light vision tricks) to adjust enough to see much of anything at night after that.

So, encounter with level-inappropriate flying monsters mid-way up a climb (I'm assuming you can't fly) while half-blind. Having fun yet?
Yeah, putting it on a rope is silly (I'm much more inclined to put it on the blade of a masterwork dagger - sheath it when you don't want light, draw it when you do), but do note that:
(a) only applies in highly hostile areas filled with rapidly-moving opponents. There are a lot of times where this really won't be an issue.
(b) is not reflected in the rules as written, so it's a house rule / table rule.

[Ashtagon]

Yeah, putting it on a rope is silly (I'm much more inclined to put it on the blade of a masterwork dagger - sheath it when you don't want light, draw it when you do), but do note that:
(a) only applies in highly hostile areas filled with rapidly-moving opponents. There are a lot of times where this really won't be an issue.
(b) is not reflected in the rules as written, so it's a house rule / table rule.

a) A flying creature at, say, 300 feet has a horizon 21 miles away (compare with 3 miles for a human on the ground). More importantly, a rope whose entire length is blazing like a torch will be a visible beacon for any creature within 23 miles (thanks to the way horizons work, you add the height-over-sea-level for each object individually). Note that at night away from cities there will likely not be many other light sources -- certainly not any taking that particular form. Any creature within travelling range and a little curiosity will surely take time to find out what it is, since it is either food or scaring away food. If we have an intelligent flier, the glowing rope is almost certainly magical treasure, and worth a look just for that.

b) What can I say? In my game worlds, observable real-world results also apply in the game world except where specifically contradicted by rules.

[Jack_Simth]

a) A flying creature at, say, 300 feet has a horizon 21 miles away (compare with 3 miles for a human on the ground). More importantly, a rope whose entire length is blazing like a torch will be a visible beacon for any creature within 23 miles (thanks to the way horizons work, you add the height-over-sea-level for each object individually). Note that at night away from cities there will likely not be many other light sources -- certainly not any taking that particular form. Any creature within travelling range and a little curiosity will surely take time to find out what it is, since it is either food or scaring away food. If we have an intelligent flier, the glowing rope is almost certainly magical treasure, and worth a look just for that.

Let's put this another way:
You have a number of necessary assumptions to your conclusion:
1) The baddies have line-of-sight to the climbers (in general, this is only going to be true when climbing outside). In, say, a Dungeon (which, in a game called Dungeons and Dragons, ought to be pretty common) this is really only going to be a problem if the enemy is already in the same room as you - in which case, you'll usually know about the baddies, and if any reinforcements are to be had, they'd be called by the baddies anyway (and will not generally be automatically notified, unless they're in the same room anyway).
2) The baddies aren't making DC 22/23 Spellcraft checks to "Identify a spell that’s already in place and in effect." - a rather lot of the critters that could be a problem will recognize that it's not overly valuable of itself (and if they aren't making the check, well, the same problem applies to *any* light source).
3) That you're not done climbing and have the rope away by the time the baddies arrive. Per the Climb Skill (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/climb.htm), the climbers will generally be going at 1/4 speed. For a halfling (base move 20), that's five feet. Ten move actions to go all the way along a fifty foot rope. One minute if they're not hustling, thirty seconds if they are. That Great Wyrm White Dragon (a rare beast, and very fast), at a full run, travels 1,000 feet per round. Which means he mostly needs to be within five to ten thousand feet, irrespective of where the horizon is located (unless he teleports, of course, but then he's burning a spell slot for idle curiosity).
4) That a baddie a long ways off, seeing a light, instantly recognizes "ooh, magic rope!" despite the massive penalties to Spot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/spot.htm) due to distance. If they're going after it just because it is a light source... well, then the same problem would apply to any light source at all (including a 1 cp torch). Gee, I hope nobody ever needs to do much of anything outside at night in your campaign - they all die due to level-inappropriate swarming.

So... while yes, there are circumstances under which it's a bad idea... most of those are circumstances under which carrying any light is a bad idea.



b) What can I say? In my game worlds, observable real-world results also apply in the game world except where specifically contradicted by rules.

And you're going to need to make up timeframes, realize that it's a rather variable effect in real life, make decisions on exactly how to map this to the game world, and quite a few other things that will be highly inconsistent between DM's.

There's nothing wrong with doing it per se, but what's written is the only common ground we really have for having these discussions, and while your table rules are fine for your table, they're not very useful in a discussion with people who are not at your table (unless the discussion is specifically about house rules, of course).

[Perseus]

I was just in Walmart and saw a dog leash that looked like a climbing rope. At night you can push a button or something and the entire length glows really fricken bright...

D&D imitating life or life imitating D&D? It was a bit odd to run into the product after reading this thread lol

[Deophaun]

a) A flying creature at, say, 300 feet has a horizon 21 miles away (compare with 3 miles for a human on the ground).
That's great. But even in complete darkness, you won't be able to see the torch light from more than 800 feet away (Rules Compendium, page 79).

[JaronK]

Note that the whole "a planet is an object!" thing becomes a much bigger issue when combined with the Rockburst spell, which could blow up the whole planet if cast on the ground if that were so.

But the sectional idea makes sense and has RAW backing.

JaronK

[Perseus]

Note that the whole "a planet is an object!" thing becomes a much bigger issue when combined with the Rockburst spell, which could blow up the whole planet if cast on the ground if that were so.

But the sectional idea makes sense and has RAW backing.

JaronK

I think there is a way to destroy all the planet's water using the same principal.

[Deophaun]

I think there is a way to destroy all the planet's water using the same principal.
If it's the trick I'm thinking of, it's actually a different principle, as it involves using an ocean as a material component. Rockburst is more direct (pick object -> make it explode)

Rockburst is rather weird though. You might, by poorly written RAW, be able to cause the entire planet to explode, but it will only deal a scant bit of damage to a few slobs standing in a small circle. Everyone else is unaffected by the Oerth-shattering kaboom (aside from no longer having a place to stand)

[Jormengand]

This does not seem to be how floors work (or planes for that matter).

Though, this does bring up the point that what exactly a single object is can be rather ill-defined.

Radiation domain. Anyone within 5 feet of... the material plane needs to fort or be sickened.