[3.5] Tell me your tips and tricks to increase Leadership scores!

[Phelix-Mu]

Hi, this is what it sounds like. I want any and all methods to increase Leadership scores that you all have found. Links or handbooks are helpful, too.

Thanks in advance.:smallsmile:

[Karnith]

They don't increase your Leadership score per se, but the Extra Followers and Improved Cohort feats (from Heroes of Battle) both improve the benefits you get from Leadership, the first by doubling the number of followers you get and the latter by increasing the level cap of your cohort. They, and the other two Leader feats in that book, also boost your Leadership by 1 when you take them.

[Vaz]

There's a book dedicated to it; Power of Faerun.

Essentially, depending on your status in the Government/Courts, Military, Merchants, Frontier Land Ownership, and Church, you get benefits.

The problem with Leadership is that it caps too easily at 25; I'm playing in an Rokugan Campaign as a Gestalt Crane Clan Courtier at the moment (which gains Charisma boosts every 3 levels or so, as well as a +3 to Leadership scores); with my placement in court, and my Intelligence score as well, I have a ton of knowledge and social skills, which places me as a general, as well as having a fortress of my own on the Crane/Lion Border, along with several decisive victories. As an Iaijutsu Master Samurai Marshal Tattooed Monk on the other side of the build, I am capable in combat, with notable rewards for valour in battle and skill in defeating enemies in combat. As a 17th level character, I am reaching a leadership score of around 60.

A 10th Level Character with 20 Charisma has a Leadership Score of 15.

Bear in mind as well that the Admirals Bicorne declares that Leadership Scores are a Charisma Check. It's shady wording, and like much of what Wizards wrote, they don't actually have a scooby, if you apply that backwards, ever more options increase for you.

[Silva Stormrage]

Well {Link to copyrighted material scrubbed} might-makes-right--1942/[/url] always is good.

Leadership feats all boost your leadership score by 1. Extra Followers and improved cohort are probably the best ones.

The landlord feat gives you a stronghold/base which can give you the bonus to leadership from having a base.

There is a hat called the Admiral Bicorne in Stormwrack which adds 5 to your leadership score.

Though it is really easy to hit that 25 cap with all this stuff.

Edit: Annnddd swordsaged...

[Nettlekid]

The Admiral's Bicorne from Stormwrack gives you a clean +5 bonus to Leadership. And in the line of Karnith's advice, the special ability from the Court of Thieves in CS doubles your Cha bonus when trying to recruit Bards and Rogues with Leadership (so you could have the normal number of followers of any class as designated by Level+Cha, but then have extra followers equal to those you'd get from Level+2*Cha minus the ones you already have, provided the extras are Bards and Rogues. I guess that would also apply to the maximum level of Cohort you had, if your Cohort had a level in Bard or Rogue.)

EDIT: Double Swordsaged!

[BowStreetRunner]

Leadership score = Character Level + Charisma Modifier + Reputation + 1 per Leader Feat
Reputation: Great Renown +2, Fairness and Generosity +1, Special Power +1, Base of Operations +2 (for followers only)
If using Commander rating (HoB p75) it can be used in place of Charisma modifier
Leader Feats: Extra Followers, Improved Cohort, Inspirational Leadership, Practiced Cohort
Rod of Leadership (+2)

[Karnith]

Well [Might Makes Right] always is good.
So, Cancer Mage + Might Makes Right + Leadership, then? Because one broken trick deserves another?

[Friv]

Okay, what I would do... (well, I don't know that I would do this. Fair warning.)

1) Play a star elf sorcerer or a wilder.
2) Start the game at Charisma 18 (20 after modifiers).
3) Get a Cloak of Charisma +4 as early as possible, taking your Charisma bonus up to +7.
4) Spend six levels acting fair and generous, and make a reputation for yourself as having weird innate powers. Don't be a jerk and don't goof up much. Finally, make sure that you have a base of operations for your group that you spend a lot of time working on improving. Convince everyone in the party to help you by pointing out that they'll get the spoils of your Feat choice. This will net you a +4 modifier (2 for stronghold, 1 each for Fairness and Special Power). Great Renown is nice, but requires the DM to also be playing along.
5) Buy Leadership at Level 6.

With just those three steps, a Level 6 character has a Leadership score of 17, which gives you guys up to level 4 plus your cohort.

By Level 8, with a Cloak of Charisma +6, you're up to a Leadership score of 21, so you only need to put a few more resources to hit the Leadership 25 cap. Picking up Might Makes Right is a cost-effective way of getting a couple of points, or you could go with Spiritual Leader if you want Wisdom to be the way to go. (And in that case, you could go Cleric instead!)

Then get a Tome of Charisma as soon as possible. Your Level 8 character has a Charisma of 22, so if you can find a +3 Tome, you qualify for Epic Leadership. (Or a +2 Tome once you're Level 12). This will give you hundreds of followers.

*EDIT* I have a better plan. Note that this better plan is really, really dumb. And it requires 12 levels of prep to get everything together. But jesus god does it work.

Level 1: Star Elf Sorcerer, with Charisma primary and Wisdom secondary. Charisma should be 18+race, for 20. Wisdom should be at least 14.
Levels 2-3: Advance sorcerer.
Level 4: Advance sorcerer, +1 Charisma (to Charisma 21)
Level 5: More sorcerer. Get a +2 cloak of charisma and a +2 Wisdom booster.
Level 6: More sorcerer. Buy Leadership. (Leadership 16).
Level 7: 1-level Fighter dip. Buy Spiritual Leader. (Leadership 20)
Level 8: Back to Sorcerer. +1 Charisma (to Charisma 22) (Leadership 22)
Level 9: Sorcerer. Buy Vow of Poverty. Gain +2 Charisma (to Charisma 24). Give all of your previous things to the poor - your followers. You lose your +2 bonuses to Charisma and Wisdom, but that's okay. (Leadership 22-24, depending on if you have a reputation yet)
Level 10: More Sorcerer. (Leadership now 23-25.)
Level 11: Increase your Charisma to +4, and your Wisdom to +2 (to Charisma 26, Wisdom 16). (Leadership technically now 25-27.)
Level 12: Buy Epic Leadership. You have a Leadership rating of 26-28, giving you potentially over two hundred followers.

(You can alternately buy Vow of Poverty at Level 3, but this results in several levels of lower Leadership scores.)

[Stegyre]

Then get a Tome of Charisma as soon as possible. Your Level 8 character has a Charisma of 22, so if you can find a +3 Tome, you qualify for Epic Leadership. (Or a +2 Tome once you're Level 12). This will give you hundreds of followers.

*EDIT* I have a better plan. Note that this better plan is really, really dumb. And it requires 12 levels of prep to get everything together. But jesus god does it work.

* * *

Level 12: Buy Epic Leadership. You have a Leadership rating of 26-28, giving you potentially over two hundred followers.
I'm pretty sure that epic feats require character level 21+:

Acquiring Epic Feats

Characters gain epic feats in the following ways:

At 21st level, and every three levels thereafter, the character may select an epic feat in place of a nonepic feat.

[Karnith]

I'm pretty sure that epic feats require character level 21+:
They do (normally), but if you tweak the build to be a Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold, it can work.

[MilesTiden]

Orcish Warlord, Might Makes Right, and Extra Followers gets you a pretty hefty horde. :smalltongue:

[Gavinfoxx]

Here you go:

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8817
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3065

[Phelix-Mu]

Aha, see that Stormwrack item is exactly what I was thinking was hidden out there somewhere, narrowly dodging any quality-control that WotC might have engaged in. *poorly stifled laughter*

My character is already epic, and I already have Epic Leadership, so I'm looking for all bonuses, I can get. My score is already up to 40, but I want to get it north of there without the DMG modifiers, which are easily plot dependent and subject to changing.

Without devoting feats to Cha-optimization, I think I've done everything my character can do on that front. 15 start, +3 age, +5 inherent, +1 level up, +12 enhancement bonus item. I think that covers it. Short of changing my race (probably wouldn't work for plot reasons), or a psionic mythal of some kind granting some other kind of bonuses to Cha (that's on the menu once I get the cohort).

I am aware of the feats out there, but this is already eating a couple of feats in a feat-starved build as it is, so that probably won't work until we get to higher level. Something to consider though.

So, yeah...*purchases bicorn*

Thanks everyone. I will follow those links, too, when I have more time.

[Phelix-Mu]

Leadership score = Character Level + Charisma Modifier + Reputation + 1 per Leader Feat
Reputation: Great Renown +2, Fairness and Generosity +1, Special Power +1, Base of Operations +2 (for followers only)
If using Commander rating (HoB p75) it can be used in place of Charisma modifier
Leader Feats: Extra Followers, Improved Cohort, Inspirational Leadership, Practiced Cohort
Rod of Leadership (+2)

Can I get a source on the Rod of Leadership? I'll go ahead and check HoB....:smallsmile:

EDIT: Can I swordsage myself?:smallcool:

In any case, found it. Thanks BowStreetRunner.

[Jeff the Green]

Ecclesiarch (ECS) requires being a cleric, but gives you Gather Information and Knowledge (local) as class skills as well as +2 to your Leadership score.

A Martial Monk (Dragon something or other) can pick up Epic Leadership prior to level 21 as well.

[Samalpetey]

Ecclesiarch (ECS) requires being a cleric, but gives you Gather Information and Knowledge (local) as class skills as well as +2 to your Leadership score.

A Martial Monk (Dragon something or other) can pick up Epic Leadership prior to level 21 as well.

Is Epic Leadership a fighter bonus feat?

[Karnith]

Is Epic Leadership a fighter bonus feat?
It is a feat on the Epic Fighter's bonus feat list (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/classProgressions.htm#epicFighter).

[Phelix-Mu]

It is a feat on the Epic Fighter's bonus feat list (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/classProgressions.htm#epicFighter).

Though, didn't the 3.5 formatting get rid of "the list" and just start using the [Fighter] tag? Or was that introduced in a splatbook?

*rolls eyes in frustration*

In other news, ELH also says that psionic varieties of all the magic-related feats exist, allowing silliness like Multipower, Automatic Quickened Power, and Power Stowaway.

[Karnith]

I know you said that you're pretty feat-starved already, but Dragon Magazine #346 has a number of feats that boost your Leadership score and that grant some other bonus (more high-level followers, a higher-level cohort, ignoring penalties for getting followers killed, etc.).

[Phelix-Mu]

I know you said that you're pretty feat-starved already, but Dragon Magazine #346 has a number of feats that boost your Leadership score and that grant some other bonus (more high-level followers, a higher-level cohort, ignoring penalties for getting followers killed, etc.).

I've already cranked my Epic Leadership score up so high that the cohort's level = character level. But the rest of that sounds interesting. I read some of that at some point, but I should go back and check again in light of this current character.

Thanks.:smallwink:

[asnys]

There's a feat in the 3.5 update of Oriental Adventures, called Great Diplomat, that gives you +2 to Diplomacy, a +2 to Leadership score, and at level 6 you get a cohort as if you had leadership. Which is nothing special by itself, although the extra bennies are decent if you don't care about followers. But if I recall correctly - and it's been a while so I may be misremembering - by rules as written, there's nothing keeping you from taking both Great Diplomat and Leadership and getting two cohorts. (Although even if that technically works it still has to pass the rule zero test.)

Edit to Add: I double-checked and it says "as though you had taken the Leadership feat", so that probably won't work after all.

[Khatoblepas]

It is a feat on the Epic Fighter's bonus feat list (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/classProgressions.htm#epicFighter).

Epic Fighter Bonus Feats != Fighter Bonus Feats, even if the reverse is true.

You cannot take Epic Fighter Bonus Feats with Martial Monk.

[Vaz]

Yes you can.

Welcome to Dragon Magazine editing.

[Spuddles]

It is a feat on the Epic Fighter's bonus feat list (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/classProgressions.htm#epicFighter).

So you can nab it with Feat Monk 1 or dragonwrought kobold.

Hahaha, D&D rules.

[Khatoblepas]

Yes you can.

Welcome to Dragon Magazine editing.

I've already debunked (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15524542&postcount=23) this.

A short version: Please note that the Epic Fighter Bonus feats are never called out as being Fighter Bonus feats. The fighter bonus feat list is added to the Epic fighter bonus feat list, but it doesn't work backwards.

Martial Monks get Fighter Bonus Feats. None of the other feats on the Epic Fighter Bonus Feat list are marked as fighter bonus feats, which is necessary for Martial Monk to be able to take them. They are simply feats an Epic Fighter can take.

It's not THAT badly written that you get a whole unrelated bonus feat list. Have you even read the Dragon Magazine article?

Dragonwrought Kobold works, though, as true dragons get their own rules for selecting epic feats.