Is there a socially-accepted limits on engagement?

[Cikomyr]

Hi there. I know I want to spend my life with my current girlfriend, and as far as I know, she does to. We plan to move in together when I get back in Canada (we did long-distance for 1 year, and we actually held it together) (but to be honest, we've been good friends for 13 years) and have a family together.

She isn't exactly a big fan of "marriage", as far as I know. Can't blame her; the stress, the expenses, and since we aren't exactly the smoothest people in a large party, the idea of a family/friend gathering where we are the centre of attention is not what gives us the biggest of desires.

However.. I still want to ask her. I don't know, it's just something I've always wanted to. I was thinking of just being engaged until we actually want to do it.

Is it something that can be done? I mean, I know very well there is no law/restriction on that sort of thing. But is there some social convention that says we should actually plan to marry when we are engaged? Like.. avoid being a tease, or something like that?

[MikelaC1]

There was a couple in my family tree that were engaged for over 40 years. If you plan to top that mark, do expect some sort of joking comments by the MC on your wedding day.

[cavalieredraghi]

to be honest with you it is up to the both of you. there is nothing saying you can't be engaged for as long as you want. you are with her you love her and she loves you that is what matters. in my opinion, Marriage is just a social convention that is proving more and more these days to be outdated. you should do what you feel is right of course there is no point is regretting a decision you made. Enjoy life as much as you can, and if it brings you more happiness being with her then be with her.

[OverdrivePrime]

Hi there. I know I want to spend my life with my current girlfriend, and as far as I know, she does to. We plan to move in together when I get back in Canada (we did long-distance for 1 year, and we actually held it together) (but to be honest, we've been good friends for 13 years) and have a family together.

She isn't exactly a big fan of "marriage", as far as I know. Can't blame her; the stress, the expenses, and since we aren't exactly the smoothest people in a large party, the idea of a family/friend gathering where we are the centre of attention is not what gives us the biggest of desires.

However.. I still want to ask her. I don't know, it's just something I've always wanted to. I was thinking of just being engaged until we actually want to do it.

Is it something that can be done? I mean, I know very well there is no law/restriction on that sort of thing. But is there some social convention that says we should actually plan to marry when we are engaged? Like.. avoid being a tease, or something like that?

The nice thing about it being you and your partner's engagement/wedding, is that it's your engagement/wedding. As long as the two of your are completely comfortable with what you're doing, the rest of the world gets to politely butt out.

Or at least that's how it should be if humans were more sensible creatures.

You'll get plenty of questions from other people about when the wedding will be (mostly from aunts and grandparents, I expect), and people who shouldn't will definitely inform you that you can't just be engaged indefinitely.

Well, tough cookies, rude relatives of the world - you totally can. Your engagement lasts as long as you and your partner want it to, not one minute less, not one minute more.

Furthermore if you don't want a big crowd - once again, it's your wedding. Don't have one. My wedding was enormous - 350 people. I'm strongly extroverted, and even I found it overwhelming. My sister's wedding was smallish - 85 people, and she found it a little overwhelming. Some friends of mine got married in the city courthouse with just their parents and siblings, and they both thought it was perfect.

It's your love, your relationship, and the two of you get to do whatever you want with it. If relatives and friends think differently, that's their cross to bear, not yours.

Congratulations, by the way! Engagements are exciting. :)

[The Rose Dragon]

There is no limit, no. But you want to rephrase The Question™ from "will you marry me" to "will you be engaged to get married to me", because if she has issues with marriage, the answer might be no, and that no can lead to a series of events that will spell the end of your relationship, even if you don't break up immediately (not speaking from personal experience, but I've seen it happen, and it's not pretty). As an anti-marriage person, however, I know I would only think about getting married if children were involved or if I really needed the legal benefits. I don't really consider marriage or being engaged as "special". So if you are fine with not getting married, I suggest not pushing the issue until you are both ready.

((Fun fact: being engaged to be married is a legal status in my country. It doesn't give you any benefits, but if the engagement is broken off for any reason, it can be brought up in a court of law, especially where exchange of material goods during the engagement is involved.))

[Anarion]

You might want to check up on the rules for common law marriage in your jurisdiction. If you live with someone long enough and act like you're married, you can end up that way for real.

[Cikomyr]

You might want to check up on the rules for common law marriage in your jurisdiction. If you live with someone long enough and act like you're married, you can end up that way for real.

We have rules for that. "Conjoint de Fait" in Quebec.

I definetly have nothing against that :smallbiggrin: the only holdback against marriage is the price/pressure.

[Bavarian itP]

I just want to remind everyone that a marriage doesn't have to be a large party, doesn't have to be "the happiest day of your life" etc. That's just marketing crap by party services and other people who profit from large marriages.

[The Rose Dragon]

I just want to remind everyone that a marriage doesn't have to be a large party, doesn't have to be "the happiest day of your life" etc. That's just marketing crap by party services and other people who profit from large marriages.

Marriage is neither of those things. You are thinking of weddings.

[Cikomyr]

Marriage is neither of those things. You are thinking of weddings.

It's my francophone part coming out.

We don't want to do a WEDDING. But we don't want to get married without a true wedding.. I think my love thinks it would be.. cheap :smalltongue:

[Mando Knight]

We don't want to do a WEDDING. But we don't want to get married without a true wedding.. I think my love thinks it would be.. cheap :smalltongue:

Then just do a simple one with a few of your closest friends and family members. A wedding doesn't have to be a major headache unless you want it to be the ABSOLUTE PERFECT DAY rather than just a ceremony for officially declaring your marriage.

[Castaras]

You should probably talk to her about this rather than asking us. Only you and her can know whether getting engaged is a good idea or not.

[warty goblin]

Then just do a simple one with a few of your closest friends and family members. A wedding doesn't have to be a major headache unless you want it to be the ABSOLUTE PERFECT DAY rather than just a ceremony for officially declaring your marriage.

This is basically what my sister did, about a year after the actual legal marriage. It was absolutely lovely; we did the whole thing at a neighbor's house as a potluck with maybe eighty friends and family. Everybody wore nice clothes, but there were no wear-it-once dresses or anything like that. The homey setting make the whole thing seem really personal and intimate and more like celebrating a marriage instead of a big loud party with a DJ and too much alcohol and people humping in the restrooms to the romantic background of 'Baby got Back'.

And I think the whole thing, aside from plane tickets for various relatives, cost $3000 tops.




But if you/she doesn't want to do that either, just have a long engagement and write it off as a fondness for nineteenth century British literature if people ask.

[Knaight]

We don't want to do a WEDDING. But we don't want to get married without a true wedding.. I think my love thinks it would be.. cheap :smalltongue:

Marriage is essentially several different things, so you might want to look at each of these individually - as they can be mixed and matched:
1) The personal state of considering the relationship a marriage.
2) The bundled set of legal contracts connected to tax law, interactions with health care (e.g. end of life decisions), etc.
3) The state of having had a ceremony to denote that one is married.
4) The state of having your relationship acknowledged by some religious group.

If you actually are planning on starting a family together, definition 2 is probably a good idea, mostly because of implications regarding health care and children. Definitions 3 and/or 4 probably shouldn't be employed without first employing definition 1 (or employing definition 1 simultaneously). That said, they are still by no means all one big bundle.

[Cikomyr]

if I understand my SO well, she is the kind of person that wants to do something "fully", or not at all. Therefore, if we ever have a marriage, it would have to be at least 50 people as we invite friends and family.

Maybe one day, when we have the money and we feel comfortable...


As for the legal ramifications/contract/"In the eye of the State", that's something that will happen probably sooner than later. The crux is the actual ceremony and party, not the legal binding aspect.


I was just wondering if one should expect funny looks if we happened to be engaged for 10 years.

[Castaras]

Maybe, maybe not. There'll be some who'll be curious, but I'm sure most will see that money and time concerns are more important than getting married right off.

[thubby]

people won't bat an eye at over a year.
if you haven't started arrangements by 2 years people might think you're being a bit silly.

[GnomeFighter]

if I understand my SO well, she is the kind of person that wants to do something "fully", or not at all. Therefore, if we ever have a marriage, it would have to be at least 50 people as we invite friends and family.
...

The crux is the actual ceremony and party, not the legal binding aspect...


I see... The problem is she dose not want a big do, because of the cost, social stuff, etc. But dose because of the social forces telling her she should, so is avoiding it by not having a wedding at all.

That is not "fully" IMO. Fully is totally committing to the marriage and the legal and (if appropriate) religious bond. Fully is not having lots of people and a big dress. That is what the media has sold us, and too many people get married because they want the big dress and special day and not the important bits.

If you want to get married but don't want the showy bits talk to her about how you don't like that and that it detracts from the importance of the real bit, the commitment. It's not cheap. Its focusing on what matters. The public commitment to each other long term. Basically a marriage is saying formally "I want to stay with you for the rest of my life". I don't think it is outdated to be grown up enough to make this commitment.

What is silly is when people spend money they can't afford just to have a party they don't want.

To answer the question, not exactly. If it goes on form more than two years then people may think its a little strange. If you have an engagement party/wedding shower (I don't know if that is just a US thing or not being in the UK) then people might get upset. Otherwise do what you want.

[Cikomyr]

If you want to get married but don't want the showy bits talk to her about how you don't like that and that it detracts from the importance of the real bit, the commitment. It's not cheap. Its focusing on what matters.


We already discussed that part.

Like I said, the problem isn't the commitment part. We are. I just have a silly romantic aspect regarding ceremonial thing, and the idea of her having a ring on our fingers (engagement or otherwise) just means something to me.

The problem is simply our limits regarding the ceremony. This doesn't cheapen our relationship in anyway. I don't feel cheated just because we aren't married. I just feel like asking her, and she says yes. Even if we never actually do it.

Am I weird?

[thubby]

one of my cousins actually had a clever idea and got quietly married in court, then had multiple parties with different parts of their family.
now, my extended family is gigantic so the affairs ended up being large anyway, but you could still include everyone in the fun while maintaining the small ceremony feel.

[Karoht]

Let me start by saying, you are entirely correct about doing this on your time table. Do this when it is right for you and your intended, don't go on anyone else's time table.

My fiancee and I have been engaged for over 5 years. We have lived together for 9 years. We were considering waiting one more year to get married on our 10 year anniversary, but chose not to.
Part of the delay was saving up. We didn't want to be in debt because of our wedding, we wanted to pay cash, but still have a nice wedding. Shoestring budget weddings are easy if you know where to look.

For example, a Hotel has it's own catering, which is more of a help than you think. A Hotel + Hotel Catering works out around 3K-4K. Find a cheap DJ and a JP and you're good, easy to bring it in under 5K if you shop around. Paying for a community center and off-site catering CAN be cheap, but the costs for off-site catering can be prohibitive.

Is there a non-profit organization in your town that has a venue? IE-A Zoo or museum? I live in Calgary, and we checked out the Calgary Zoo. It's a non-profit organization, they have a gorgeous venue which is startlingly cheap to rent, has reasonably priced catering (on-site), includes parking, includes access to the rest of the zoo for guests (so they have something to do between ceremony and reception), includes access to the zoo for pictures and the like (they have extremely nice gardens, sadly ruined by the recent flood), they have a 50 thousand dollar sound system wired in so that one could DJ with little more than a laptop, maybe even just an iPhone. Total cost for 70 people? 4K, maybe more if we pick the expensive dinner menu.

For us, the location is perfect. We're doing a steampunk wedding with a heavy dose of nerdity, and we have a good budget remaining for the fun stuff like honeymoon and such.

The only downside? Non-profit locations typically have very controlled costs, but will also have more rules. For example, the Zoo won't let us bring in a remote controlled airship. When we looked at the Lougheed House (another non-prof historical location) they had really strict rules regarding noise levels and music. I've seen community halls which have restrictions on which caterers are allowed on the premises and which ones are not. So that is something you need to keep in mind.


If you dislike crowds of people overloading you with attention, make your wedding party do their job of running interferance. Delegation is key on any large scale event. Or, do a small party wedding. Community center, potluck the food, hire a JP (Justice of the Peace), and keep it small, short, and sweet. Blow what you would have spent on a bigger wedding on the honeymoon.

Best of luck!

[SiuiS]

Hi there. I know I want to spend my life with my current girlfriend, and as far as I know, she does to. We plan to move in together when I get back in Canada (we did long-distance for 1 year, and we actually held it together) (but to be honest, we've been good friends for 13 years) and have a family together.

She isn't exactly a big fan of "marriage", as far as I know. Can't blame her; the stress, the expenses, and since we aren't exactly the smoothest people in a large party, the idea of a family/friend gathering where we are the centre of attention is not what gives us the biggest of desires.

Marriage requires, in most cases, little more than consent, a witness, and signing paperwork at the appropriate government building. The big party, the flowers and pictures and ceremony, are because "you can only get married once, so so it big", except because the ceremony is completely separate from a cruel marriage, you don't even need to get married to have a marriage ceremony! Or you can have one after being married for years!

Don't sweat the costs, friend.

[Krazzman]

Since I am in the current state of choosing invitations and thinking up table orders and whatnot myself.

The day is yours. Or the two days are yours, however you want to do it.

Engagement lasts as long as you two still want to tackle it. But it is socially expected to "be certain of a wedding day after around 1 year". At least in germany I got this impression.

Since prices are a vast difference in cities, let alone other countries, I can't really let you know what it will cost.

Our Location isn't even in Germany as we live quite near the border and will use a location in the Netherlands for our wedding.
The day planned is signing papers with a small circle of people (our Parents, 1 pair of grandparents and our witnesses[and in one instance the partner of the witness]). Then Ceremonial in a Church, then "dinner" and party in the location in Netherlands. Estimated costs: around 5k to 6k Euros + the dress and smoking (exaggeratingly spoken thats around 8k to 10k USD).

This works for me. I would be fine with a simple trip to the government building and then inviting everyone to "party" but my special other would like to have more on this day.

Keep in mind those those things get more expensive the more people you two know and invite.
On a current wedding the bride didn't invite her father because he wasn't that nice and wanted a personal invitation and such stuff.

And as Karoth did:
wait till you can stem this from yourselves because it will be expensive if it should be good.

[Mando Knight]

because the ceremony is completely separate from a cruel marriage,

...I'd hope it is, or no one would want a wedding...

[Devils_Advocate]

I'm not entirely clear on the benefits of marriage (http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2139#comic). I mean, the main idea seems to be that two people become obligated to stay together even if they don't both want to, which seems like the sort of thing one would want to avoid. (Obligations in general strike me as things to avoid.) Maybe I'm missing something.


We don't want to do a WEDDING. But we don't want to get married without a true wedding..
So, you don't want to get married, then. But you do want to be engaged.

Yeah, that's pretty weird. Not that there's anything wrong with being weird. And if you don't want to seem weird, you could just not tell anyone else about it.

Have you considered eloping? Given that marrying in secret has been popular enough long enough to have its own word, it seems pretty traditional in its own way. Think how intimate and romantic your own private ceremony would be!

[Cikomyr]

So, you don't want to get married, then. But you do want to be engaged.

Yeah, that's pretty weird. Not that there's anything wrong with being weird. And if you don't want to seem weird, you could just not tell anyone else about it.

Have you considered eloping? Given that marrying in secret has been popular enough long enough to have its own word, it seems pretty traditional in its own way. Think how intimate and romantic your own private ceremony would be!

I did considered eloping, and for some reason she doesn't seem keen on the idea.

Ah, what the hell. I think I'll just propose, and then make it clear that we don't *actually* need to have a wedding, nor even to get married. I guess I'm weird that way :-P

[GAThraawn]

I did considered eloping, and for some reason she doesn't seem keen on the idea.

Ah, what the hell. I think I'll just propose, and then make it clear that we don't *actually* need to have a wedding, nor even to get married. I guess I'm weird that way :-P

For what it's worth, this is also the idea that my girlfriend favours, if we get to that point. Getting engaged and leaving it at that. She also has friends that did that, and have been engaged for six or seven years, so it's definitely something people do. Doesn't mean you won't get some odd looks and confused comments, but that's what relatives are for, right?

[Melayl]

We already discussed that part.

Like I said, the problem isn't the commitment part. We are. I just have a silly romantic aspect regarding ceremonial thing, and the idea of her having a ring on our fingers (engagement or otherwise) just means something to me.

The problem is simply our limits regarding the ceremony. This doesn't cheapen our relationship in anyway. I don't feel cheated just because we aren't married. I just feel like asking her, and she says yes. Even if we never actually do it.

Am I weird?

No, you aren't weird. So long as you and your significant other are both comfortable and in agreement with the situation, do whatever you want. Marry, remain indefinitely Engaged, live together, whatever. Nobody else's business.

I will echo what someone else said: discuss what you've posed to us with her. I think that will be a much more productive discussion for you.

And congratulations, whatever decision the two of you come to!

[Karoht]

You can get engaged and just not set a time limit on it. It's not weird at all. Not many people set a wedding date within the first year of their engagement.
Seriously, saying that you want to commit to something bigger (but not marriage, just yet) is exactly what engagement is. It's a promise that you will marry, a declaration of intent to make that lifelong commitment. It doesn't have to be immediately. And it is definitely not something to rush into.

[mangosta71]

*shrug* I know a couple that got engaged on their first date and were married six weeks later. I know couples that have lived together for years without discussing marriage. So don't sweat it - there might be a few that care, but most people won't (and it's none of their business either way).

[Karoht]

*shrug* I know a couple that got engaged on their first date and were married six weeks later. I know couples that have lived together for years without discussing marriage. So don't sweat it - there might be a few that care, but most people won't (and it's none of their business either way).
^
Seconded.
Do what is right for you and your lady.

[Seffbasilisk]

From personal experience, I'd strongly recommend not to get engaged until you're absolutely sure you want to be married within the next six months.

Long term engagements do not work. I've two ex-fiancees to my name, and was asked to be best man to a wedding party that just broke up.

I wish you and yours the best, but if you're going to ride the whirlwind, you've got to cross your fingers, clutch each other tight, and take a leap. Linger too long on the edge, and you'll overthink things.

On the count of two.

[RCgothic]

I'm not too bothered about marriage personally and neither is my SO, but I like the word fiancée. I would happily be afiancéed forever. :smallsmile:

[Jon_Dahl]

I would say that after three years it's more like "marriage in 2nd degree" and less "waiting to be married some day soon".

[Karoht]

From personal experience, I'd strongly recommend not to get engaged until you're absolutely sure you want to be married within the next six months.Why? Where does this near-stereotype come from exactly?


Long term engagements do not work.I've been engaged for 5 years, it will be 6 years when we actually get married due to a major delay caused by flooding.

That film, the 5 year engagement? Really not a big deal. Yet another hollywood film trying to tell us all what love is and how relationships work. With broken and faulty advice at best.


I wish you and yours the best, but if you're going to ride the whirlwind, you've got to cross your fingers, clutch each other tight, and take a leap. Linger too long on the edge, and you'll overthink things.If the commitment waivers because you were engaged too long, how would it survive years of marriage? A lifetime of marriage?

[Cikomyr]

Actually, I am starting to suspect she might be more receptive to the idea of marriage than she initially led me to believe.


Oh well. Doesn't change my plan. I will still ask her (after I get permission and blessings from her parents, I'm an old-fashioned guy that way :smallwink:) and we will set a date, which may be "in months" to "one day".

No pressure.

[Karoht]

Solid plan. Go for it.