OOTS #898 - The Discussion Thread [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

pendell

2013-07-09, 05:05 PM

Nooo don't tease me like this. I can't see 898. Link on the left side takes us to 897. Tried putting 898 directly into the address bar and no go. Went to the comic archive and the latest one is 897.

MUST HAVE THE PRECIOUSSS. GIVE US THE PRECIOUSSSS!!!!!!

Runs off wailing madly,

Brian P.

ETA: Oh thank God it's there now. Thanks to you, too Rich!

KRAKOOOOOM in 3...2...1 ...

-- BDP.

Gift Jeraff

2013-07-09, 05:05 PM

Does the rumbling involve the Gate breaking/pyramid collapsing? Are Xykon and Tarquin about to fight?! Nale and Malack?!? Will Nale finally find something rumbleworthy other than himself??

CoffeeIncluded

2013-07-09, 05:06 PM

And this...oh man, why did this comic have to be so short! I'm on the edge of my seat here!

Though right here at the end...What's Belkar's plan? Though it definitely says something that Roy, in that one moment, chooses to follow him.

Chessgeek

2013-07-09, 05:07 PM

I wonder what will happen when Team Evil arrives...

But hooray for Roy trusting Belkar! And the survival of Mr. Scruffy!

Syncrogti

2013-07-09, 05:07 PM

Wait, did Haley run in a different direction than what Belkar is suggesting? Does she know?

EDIT: saw her in the last panel, OK whew!

hamishspence

2013-07-09, 05:08 PM

Roy seems to be trusting Belkar at last here.

BroomGuys

2013-07-09, 05:09 PM

OK, should be fixed now.

Yep, fixed now. Thanks! :smallsmile:

Also, :smalleek:. What's Belkar's plan? Isn't Xykon presumably within 1,000 feet by now? What about the LG? What on earth is going to happen now? I can't even.

RustyVenture

2013-07-09, 05:09 PM

Very interested to see what Belkar's plan is. Perhaps something involving that flying carpet?

Good thing the fiends have V.

Morty

2013-07-09, 05:10 PM

I guess that answers the "does a normal-sized Gate explode if destroyed" question.

SoD spoiler:
Lirian's gate didn't, but I suppose each of them may work differently.

The Curt Jester

2013-07-09, 05:10 PM

More character development for Roy. He listened to Belkar again!

Psyren

2013-07-09, 05:10 PM

So that's the secret. Roy needs to grit his teeth to get the glow :smallwink:

Felhammer

2013-07-09, 05:10 PM

Roy listening to Belkar's suggestion!? Wow, talk about character growth! :smallbiggrin:

zimmerwald1915

2013-07-09, 05:10 PM

Though right here at the end...What's Belkar's plan? Though it definitely says something that Roy, in that one moment, chooses to follow him.
They look like they're in the room right below the Draketooths' former cafeteria and current morgue. What passages do we know about that lead from there?

Carl

2013-07-09, 05:11 PM

Ok i admit i've no idea what Belkar is planning either. But this is going to be interesting. Also have to wonder what tarquin, the LG and Xykon are all doing right now. Something big is about to happen but i have no idea what. The suspense is a killer.

Damm it.

JavaScribe

2013-07-09, 05:11 PM

Isn't Xykon presumably within 1,000 feet by now?
Assuming he wants to enter Girard's gate with full spell slots, no. The oracle said he would be within 1000 feet, but he never said the gate had to be in one piece!

Juggling Goth

2013-07-09, 05:13 PM

Oh maaaaaaaan Giant, you can't leave us wondering like this!

Henry the 57th

2013-07-09, 05:13 PM

Gah! Every comic makes me crave the next one to soothe the suspense I feel, but every new one only makes it more suspenseful! Curse your masterful writing, Giant! Curse it!

Squirrel_Token

2013-07-09, 05:13 PM

Woah it actually worked! I expected someone to stop them somehow...

VeliaRae

2013-07-09, 05:15 PM

Oh my gosh. The group splitting being threatened is freaking me out. I was worried about Mr. Scruffy and then everyone getting separated!

Bit of a theory:
Think Belkar would risk his own life (and lose it) for Mr. Scruffy? I'm not totally sure how familiars work so I don't know if Scruffy would be in enough permanent danger to warrant such an act. But it would be awfully heart wrenching to watch the rest of the party realize he died caring for another being.

eusticepious

2013-07-09, 05:16 PM

Thank you for a good action packed comic. I thought we would see Xykon / Redcloak appear before the gate got destroyed. Is it really destroyed though? Seems like, but can't say 100%

Cuthalion

2013-07-09, 05:17 PM

Xykon and Redcloak show up on top of ruins.

:redcloak: Well....

BroomGuys

2013-07-09, 05:18 PM

Assuming he wants to enter Girard's gate with full spell slots, no. The oracle said he would be within 1000 feet, but he never said the gate had to be in one piece!

The rift and the gate aren't the same thing, though. Once the gate explodes, the rift will still be there, but the gate will be gone. I'm pretty sure this means Xykon has to be within 1,000 feet before the gate explodes.

MelTorefas

2013-07-09, 05:19 PM

How desperate are they, trusting Belkar? Gotta love Roy's pause at the end there. XD

CoffeeIncluded

2013-07-09, 05:19 PM

It ain't destroyed until we hear the KRAKAKOOM!

Also, at the very end of #900:

:xykon:: ...Aw, nuts.

Purgatorius

2013-07-09, 05:19 PM

What is Belkar's idea?
We haven't seen the flying carpet since comic 849, have we?

RMS Oceanic

2013-07-09, 05:19 PM

For a moment I thought Belkar was talking about something Roy had threatened to do earlier. Like, say kill him (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0880.html). But that doesn't make much sense in my eyes.

Question remains, what could possibly be there that Belkar knows about that would allow them to escape?

EDIT: OH! Idea:

It's been established that Belkar can smell the Linear Guild. What if he plans to follow them and grab on as Z is teleporting?

TRH

2013-07-09, 05:20 PM

hamishspence

2013-07-09, 05:20 PM

The rift and the gate aren't the same thing, though. Once the gate explodes, the rift will still be there, but the gate will be gone. I'm pretty sure this means Xykon has to be within 1,000 feet before the gate explodes.
I could see a later strip, just before, or just after, the explosion, having Xykon and Redcloak watching it from a distance.

Daveheart

2013-07-09, 05:20 PM

Very interested to see what Belkar's plan is. Perhaps something involving that flying carpet?

Good thing the fiends have V.
Nope!

Bad thing they have his soul, not his body!

Also, maybe first page?

edit
Yeah, as if...

Deepbluediver

2013-07-09, 05:21 PM

Well, now stuff is starting to happen quickly. I hope V can still get out once the pyramid is collapsed on top of him.

Bedinsis

2013-07-09, 05:21 PM

I hope Vaarsuvius's* body is okay.

*Is this correct grammar?

hamishspence

2013-07-09, 05:22 PM

I hope Vaarsuvius's* body is okay.

*Is this correct grammar?

The fiends did promise it would be "shielded from all harm" while V's soul was with them:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0897.html

Commander672

2013-07-09, 05:22 PM

They better not be pulling a Tomb of Horrors on us. Also, greatest anti-allusion technique ever: LALALACAN'THEREYOU! :elan:

Meanwhile, with V.

"You wouldn't mind teleporting my body somewhere, would you"
"Uh, right. sorry"

*Edit*

So are we sure something bad will happen when all the gates are destroyed? The Rifts are bigger, sure, but that doesn't automatically mean the world's end. Maybe someone could rebuild the gates, and it'll just be harder this time? Although as a God I wouldn't want to take the chance. Plus no one's truly qualified this time around.

Xelbiuj

2013-07-09, 05:23 PM

Good effort for a real* last ditch defense. Much better than a double bluff.

Props to Roy for carrying Belkar and listening to him.

sparky9042

2013-07-09, 05:24 PM

Vaarsuvius is about to get sucked into the rift, isn't she :smalleek:

Gwynfrid

2013-07-09, 05:24 PM

The fiends did promise it would be "shielded from all harm" while V's soul was with them:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0897.html

Yes, exactly. For 20 minutes 35 seconds. After which time, a few million tons of rock on top of said body would be free to respond to gravity's pull.:smalleek:

Bedinsis

2013-07-09, 05:24 PM

The fiends did promise it would be "shielded from all harm" while V's soul was with them:

...
Hey everybody! Look! It's Bedinsis! The guy with the memory of a goldfish!

Thanks for your answer.

halfeye

2013-07-09, 05:24 PM

The rift and the gate aren't the same thing, though. Once the gate explodes, the rift will still be there, but the gate will be gone. I'm pretty sure this means Xykon has to be within 1,000 feet before the gate explodes.
Yeah, it would, but Roy got clever and said the location of the gate, not the gate itself, the location will still be there, just like the rift, after the gate is gone.

Fitzclowningham

2013-07-09, 05:24 PM

The fiends did promise it would be "shielded from all harm" while V's soul was with them:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0897.html

It's funny that I noticed the specificity of the fiends' language, and yet this turn of events still surprises me. I wonder if V will wind up trapped under the pyramid.

Needle

2013-07-09, 05:25 PM

Nuuuu, cliffhangers~

Now I'll be thinking all week until a new strip comes :smallredface:

JavaScribe

2013-07-09, 05:27 PM

Daveheart

2013-07-09, 05:27 PM

The fiends did promise it would be "shielded from all harm" while V's soul was with them:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0897.html

Yes, that's exactly what is worrying me.

We're talking about LE fiends, and they have to be taken literally. So, what do you think about a perfectly healthy elf buried alive under 200 meters of collapsed rocks?

And remember how Rich made him say he expended his last spell to move through stone? That very strange spell to have prepared? :smalleek:

edit
Passwall, it was. And, of course, ninja'd. Damn language gap. :smallannoyed:

Gift Jeraff

2013-07-09, 05:28 PM

I guess that answers the "does a normal-sized Gate explode if destroyed" question.

SoD spoiler:
Lirian's gate didn't, but I suppose each of them may work differently.

Yeah, I'm guessing the explosions were something the Gate guardians added themselves. Dorukan's explosion was yellow (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0120.html), like his magic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0196.html). Soon's was blue (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0463.html), like every Azurite divine caster's magic. Now Girard's explosion is purple, like his magic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0695.html).

And Lirian's Gate breaking completely lacked the whole "sphere of light" thing.

MReav

2013-07-09, 05:29 PM

Question remains, what could possibly be there that Belkar knows about that would allow them to escape?

EDIT: OH! Idea:

It's been established that Belkar can smell the Linear Guild. What if he plans to follow them and grab on as Z is teleporting?

I think he smells the pterodactyl mounts and how they're lacking escorts.

hamishspence

2013-07-09, 05:30 PM

Yes, that's exactly what is worrying me.

We're talking about LE fiends, and they have to be taken literally. So, what do you think about a perfectly healthy elf buried alive under 200 meters of collapsed rocks?

And remember how Rich made him say he expended his last spell to move through stone? That very strange spell to have prepared? :smalleek:

Wouldn't surprise me if they have a plan for that.

With two more to use V's time, I doubt they'd just let V die at this point.

Mike Havran

2013-07-09, 05:31 PM

Well...V under the rubble, Xykon not there ... it isn't the actual gate after all, is it?

halfeye

2013-07-09, 05:32 PM

Wouldn't surprise me if they have a plan for that.

With two more to use V's time, I doubt they'd just let V die at this point.
Blackwing though?

RCSparrow

2013-07-09, 05:32 PM

Oooo. Big explosion in two strips. My vote is that they are going to use Girard's coffin to slide down the pyramid. And props to Roy for listening to Belkar.

Now the question is whether or not the fiends decided to shield Blackwing's body, and how Nale and Co. will try to escape a collapsing pyramid.

Sky_Schemer

2013-07-09, 05:35 PM

There will still be bits and pieces of the gate lying around. It's not like they poof out of existence.

Yes, but at that point it is no longer a gate: it is debris.

Daveheart

2013-07-09, 05:35 PM

Wouldn't surprise me if they have a plan for that.

With two more to use V's time, I doubt they'd just let V die at this point.

I hope you're right, but I had a very bad feeling. See how much they did with him this time: they simply removed him from the scene.

If that is all they need, why not simply remove the problem? Still, I hope the Giant is saving him anyway.

Deus ex Machina, I choose you! (semi quote, throwing whatever round object I have next to me)

Mike Havran

2013-07-09, 05:35 PM

I think he smells the pterodactyl mounts and how they're lacking escorts.

Wouldn't be the mounts outside the pyramid? The rest was heading outside.

My guess is that he wants the Order to hide inside Girard's sacrophagus. Hey, it's big enough :smalltongue:

TRH

2013-07-09, 05:36 PM

Oh, and I take this strip as strong evidence for my new pet theory: Vaarsuvius isn't going to rejoin the Order. Ever. They'll just keep coming up with reasons to keep them apart, DSTP-style, but it'll last until the end of the story. And really, something like this could have started at the end of DSTP and very little would have changed about this past arc, so call it a "test", if you will. The Order is exactly the same without the elf, so now they'll openly operate without her.

AstralFire

2013-07-09, 05:38 PM

Why is Elan going "LA LA LA CAN'T HEAR YOU"? Is he afraid to get Mr. Scruffy?

halfeye

2013-07-09, 05:38 PM

pendell

2013-07-09, 05:39 PM

Huh. I was not expecting the Gate to be destroyed that anticlimactically. At the risk of embarrassing myself with my obstinacy, I wonder if this is another of Girard's tricks. The crystal did seem more-or-less intact when they left, and a Tomb of Horrors-style staged dungeon collapse makes for a better bluff then a thin strip of lead. On the other hand, I'd dearly like this arc over, so meh.

I don't think this is a tomb of horrors fakeout because I note the three fiends immobilized Vaarsuvius. I don't think they'd have done that for anything but the real gate. I suspect the three fiends have more information on the mortal plane than any of the players on the prime but they are limited in what they can do there. They don't seem to have the ability to freely move on the prime material plane but must be summoned.

That may not be the exact restriction. Details may vary. But they don't seem to have total freedom of action on Prime.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

hamishspence

2013-07-09, 05:39 PM

He's trying to make sure the illusion doesn't get him again (they're running past those runes).

Daveheart

2013-07-09, 05:39 PM

Why is Elan going "LA LA LA CAN'T HEAR YOU"? Is he afraid to get Mr. Scruffy?

He's passing under the illusion runes at that moment.

He's preventing their effect in his own, Elanish, way.

HanKhalifa

2013-07-09, 05:39 PM

Yes, exactly. For 20 minutes 35 seconds. After which time, a few million tons of rock on top of said body would be free to respond to gravity's pull.:smalleek:

That is something akin to what I was thinking. Even if the rocks manage to (incredibly luckily) form a new impromptu mini-cave around V, she will likely come to trapped under several tons of rock, which I believe would not be passable with her prepared spells and possibly not at all. At the very least, this should put her out of the game for another eight hours+, until the appropriate spell can be prepared. Not to mention re-splitting the party, or preventing it from being reunited, yet again.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/sm/custom/y/i/56c69e1f6c.jpg

Also, question for the rest of you. Did you interpret the last two panels as Roy hesitating, and then deciding to trust/follow Belkar, or simply stepping back to avoid the cracking floor, and then jumping over? That is, do you think he intended to follow Belkar the whole time, or momentarily was about to abandon him and go the other direction?

I'm kinda split on this one, but I'm leaning towards him having seriously considered leaving Belkar. Still, glad he decided to follow.

ETA: It comes to mind that it is possible the tunnels in which V is currently lying currently won't collapse. We can hope.

BroomGuys

2013-07-09, 05:39 PM

Yeah, it would, but Roy got clever and said the location of the gate, not the gate itself, the location will still be there, just like the rift, after the gate is gone.

The exact quote is If the lich sorcerer commonly referred to as "Xyon will ever be, at some future point in time, within a 1000-foot radius of one of these two magical gates, of which of those locations will he be within said radius first, chronologically (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html). He refers both to the gates themselves and their locations, which I think means Xykon must be within 1,000 feet of the location with the gate still in it in order to fulfill the prophecy.

AstralFire

2013-07-09, 05:40 PM

He's passing under the illusion runes at that moment.

He's preventing their effect in his own, Elanish, way.

He's trying to make sure the illusion doesn't get him again (they're running past those runes).

Ohhhhhh. Makes sense.

Bird

2013-07-09, 05:40 PM

1. I think it's the real gate. Hasn't the Giant all but confirmed that it in board comments?

I was briefly suspicious that the explosion is the color of Girard's dweomer, but then, the Azure City explosion was the color of Soon's.

2. I think it was very nice of Haley to go back for Mr. Scruffy, even though she was already several paces ahead of him when Belkar asked someone to help.

3. Is Belkar just pointing them towards the shoot that he rode down when he was fighting the hellhound? I'm sort of fuzzy on the pyramid's architecture, so I'm not sure whether that's an option, good or otherwise.

Eurthantian

2013-07-09, 05:40 PM

I wonder what will happen when Team Evil arrives...

But hooray for Roy trusting Belkar! And the survival of Mr. Scruffy!

That's the only way I'd trust Belkar!

DeadMG

2013-07-09, 05:40 PM

The thing is, whilst I'm with everyone else about how nice it would be if this arc were over, I'm going to be forced to agree that this is likely an illusion on Girard's part. Xykon hasn't even shown up, let alone been defeated by the Gate's defences like he was for the other Gates. The pillar is likely set to bring down the pyramid if destroyed, but the Gate would likely survive the explosion and now be buried in all the rock.

Sunken Valley

2013-07-09, 05:40 PM

Question:

How come Girard's Gate is taking so long to go boom, but yet Lirian's and Soon's went boom instantly when destroyed. Why? Dorukan's does not count because it was on a (presumably timed) self-destruct so it's less likely to be size. Does this also mean that K's Gate will go boom instantly due to being smaller.

hamishspence

2013-07-09, 05:41 PM

Because they destabilized it- so it's not destroyed yet, but will be very shortly.

Sky_Schemer

2013-07-09, 05:43 PM

How come Girard's Gate is taking so long to go boom, but yet Lirian's and Soon's went boom instantly when destroyed. Why? Dorukan's does not count because it was on a (presumably timed) self-destruct so it's less likely to be size. Does this also mean that K's Gate will go boom instantly due to being smaller.

Because Roy did not break the gate completely. He just cracked the crystal around it under the assumption that it would be weakened and unstable enough to start failing on its own. And then blow.

EDIT: Ninja'd!

SteveMB

2013-07-09, 05:43 PM

Yeah, it would, but Roy got clever and said the location of the gate, not the gate itself, the location will still be there, just like the rift, after the gate is gone.

The way Roy worded the question (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html) does refer to the "location". Oops. :smalleek:

Hurkle

2013-07-09, 05:44 PM

Each of the last few strips, I keep thinking there's no way the next one will leave me with this much apprehension and angst. But, yet again, I'm loudly dying inside with anticipation for the next comic. Damn you Giant!

Humble Master

2013-07-09, 05:44 PM

I find it interesting that Roy is following Belkar's suggestion.

Yay for character development.

Sutremaine

2013-07-09, 05:44 PM

Even if the rocks manage to (incredibly luckily) form a new impromptu mini-cave around V
If the elf dies here, this whole thing was a waste of time for the other two fiends. They need V alive to effectively use their allotted time.

CoffeeIncluded

2013-07-09, 05:46 PM

warmachine

2013-07-09, 05:48 PM

It's worth following Belkar's suggestion. He may be a sadistic bastard who'll hurt his teammates for a laugh but he is devious. I'd give his idea better odds than running up the stairs.

Anarion

2013-07-09, 05:48 PM

Hmm, well, I guess it's reasonable that they wouldn't know just how dangerous gate explosions might be, since the first one was a special self-destruct, the second was Miko and they never actually saw it go, and nobody in the Order saw Lirian's blow either, since it was before their time.

I'm happier that Belkar has an idea than I am that Roy is following it. Every since his reformation, he's actually been quite effective, and not even just in his twisted little way, but as a normal contributing party member.

Oh, and classic moment when Roy goes to put his eye right up to inspect the thing and then it starts to blow. :smallamused:

If the elf dies here, this whole thing was a waste of time for the other two fiends. They need V alive to effectively use their allotted time.

They just promised V that hir body will be unharmed after this, (s)he'll be fine.

HanKhalifa

2013-07-09, 05:48 PM

If the elf dies here, this whole thing was a waste of time for the other two fiends. They need V alive to effectively use their allotted time.

Right, which means that due to rules of drama the less-likely thing may actually prove to be more likely. Still, the part that I'm much more concerned about, is that we just went from thiiiis close to a reunion, to lacking a wizard once more. That puts, or rather leaves, the Order's effectiveness at "greatly diminished".

I also almost-instantly edited my post, because it came to mind that the tunnels underneath may manage to hold up.

Giggling Ghast

2013-07-09, 05:55 PM

But is it morally justified to, umm, flee a collapsing pyramid?

....

Yeah, I got nothing.

Good strip, Giant. :smallsmile:

Chad30

2013-07-09, 05:56 PM

I would love it if Xykong showed up and was like "I'm glad we're finally at the gate"

*gate explodes*

MITD: "Gate? What gate?"

Xykon: :smallfurious:

Surfing HalfOrc

2013-07-09, 05:57 PM

Aaaarg! Cliffhangers! What is Belkar's plan to escape a collapsing pyramid?

Defiant

2013-07-09, 05:57 PM

Allow me to say, I hate Girard. Now I don't know whether this is real or another illusion. I mean, they passed past the runes, they passed with no trace of the Linear Guild...

Jiggs

2013-07-09, 05:57 PM

Oh my Belkar is becoming a valued party member,... for more than just comic relief

Joseph_Lavode

2013-07-09, 05:57 PM

Moment of truth for Belkar....

Also, Mr Scruffy is always just adorable :smallbiggrin:

zimmerwald1915

2013-07-09, 05:57 PM

They need a wizard, or it isn't fantasy.
Says who? There's been plenty of fantasy written about non-wizard protagonists, and plenty of fantasy where the protagonists don't even have wizard hangers-on or advisers. There is some fantasy criticism that says that magic-use should be reserved for villains.

That said, I rather like TRH's theory about V's body (and, presumably, Blackwing's) getting sucked into the Rift as it expands.

ozmar

2013-07-09, 05:58 PM

What is it! What??!?!?!

:miko: Show me what it is or taste a thousand cuts from my righteous blade!

I hope it's something... rumble-worthy.

-Ozmar the Impatient

Torvaun

2013-07-09, 05:58 PM

I have two options. One, they're going to hide in the sarcophagus and make a Kingdom of the Crystal Skull reference. Two, Belkar is looking for Malach. Tarquin doesn't want Elan to die in a collapsing pyramid, and Malach doesn't want Durkon's allies to all end up dead.

Aadst1

2013-07-09, 06:00 PM

"Someone grab Mr. Scruffy!" :eek:

I love Belkar more and more each strip!

FlawedParadigm

2013-07-09, 06:00 PM

There's no possible way this could be true but...triple bluff? The explosion is an illusion set to go off at far less damage than is necessary to actually destroy the gate?

Nah.

Finn Solomon

2013-07-09, 06:01 PM

I wonder how much XP Roy gets for 'killing' the gate.

Daveheart

2013-07-09, 06:02 PM

I think I tracked where they are.

Comic 859 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0859.html) shows the same metal door of the 8th panel. The one that cut Malack off after the Holy Word, now out of its place and down on the floor.

Comic 853 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0853.html) shows the staircase of the 10th panel. The one that leads outside.
Same with 848 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0853.html)

Around that staircase the only useful object is the coffin, so I think that who said Belkar wants to slide down in it may be right.

Heck, the pun title may even involve Jamaica's bob team. :smallbiggrin:

Mutant Sheep

2013-07-09, 06:06 PM

Gogo "Why didn't they at least THINK of an escape route before doing this" rangers!:smallbiggrin:

henrykazuka

2013-07-09, 06:10 PM

Is Belkar going to be alright? I have a bad feeling about this.

Lemarc

2013-07-09, 06:11 PM

Chess435

2013-07-09, 06:11 PM

I wouldn't put it past Girard to pull a Tomb of Horrors, for those that get the reference.

CelestialStick

2013-07-09, 06:11 PM

Defiant

2013-07-09, 06:14 PM

Since you asked, and nobody else bothered to answer, when a word ends in 's' and you want to make it possessive, you add an apostrophe, but you don't add an extra 's'. So the correct grammar would be "I hope Vaarsuvius' body is okay." I know that's not how it's pronounced, it doesn't make sense to me either.

Both are OK when the word is singular and a name. Only an apostrophe is OK when the word is plural.

Mr. Jones' pet horse is OK.
Mr. Jones's pet horse is also OK.
The horses' apostrophes must not be followed by an additional "s".

I'm not an English major, but I remember researching it and then remembering it forever onwards.

Lemarc

2013-07-09, 06:14 PM

Wow, this is the first time in years that I happened to check for the comic on even the day it was posted, much less within an hour, but alas I can't figure out what happened in the last panels. It appears that Belkar (and Mr. Scruffy?) somehow vanished.

He's off panel. He's moving left in panel 10, you can see the edge of his cape in panel 11 as he moves out of sight, and in panel 12 he's somewhere to the left of the visible area.

Belril Duskwalk

2013-07-09, 06:14 PM

Wow, this is the first time in years that I happened to check for the comic on even the day it was posted, much less within an hour, but alas I can't figure out what happened in the last panels. It appears that Belkar (and Mr. Scruffy?) somehow vanished.

Belkar continued in the direction he was facing, taking him off-panel left. Roy, Elan and Haley followed. As Haley changed directions Mr. Scruffy streams out behind her, causing Mr. Scruffy to end up off-panel right.

Oko and Qailee

2013-07-09, 06:15 PM

I think this might be it for Belkar though.

Party is gonna get in sarcophagus. Explosion happens. Indian Jones Crystal Skull reference. Xykon is already there as is team Tarquin (with his buds). Belkar dies in ensuing fight, but Order escapes.

AstralFire

2013-07-09, 06:23 PM

Both are OK when the word is singular and a name. Only an apostrophe is OK when the word is plural.

Mr. Jones' pet horse is OK.
Mr. Jones's pet horse is also OK.
The horses' apostrophes must not be followed by an additional "s".

I'm not an English major, but I remember researching it and then remembering it forever onwards.

For clarity's sake:

OLD RULE: You must never have an apostrophe-and-s immediately following an s.
MODERN RULE: You may have an apostrophe-and-s immediately following an s when the word is singular.

I am randomly picky about certain things, so I still favor the old rule in this case.

Indian Jones Crystal Skull reference.

Those exist?

Lemarc

2013-07-09, 06:24 PM

Both are OK when the word is singular and a name. Only an apostrophe is OK when the word is plural.

Mr. Jones' pet horse is OK.
Mr. Jones's pet horse is also OK.
The horses' apostrophes must not be followed by an additional "s".

I'm not an English major, but I remember researching it and then remembering it forever onwards.

I've never seen this in a formal work. It may be an American thing. As long as you're consistent about which one you use I don't suppose it matters.

Defiant

2013-07-09, 06:24 PM

JSSheridan

2013-07-09, 06:27 PM

Thanks Giant!

MReav

2013-07-09, 06:27 PM

Wouldn't be the mounts outside the pyramid? The rest was heading outside.

Continuing with my theory, there's more than one entry (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0850.html). I'm guessing the Order might be going to the exit that's closest to the stairs, while Belkar's heading to a more distant exit, but one where the dinosaur mounts are. The Order is operating on the notion they have, I'm thinking, less than a minute, so every second not spent doing the GTFO is time where they get to be in the blast radius, hence their hesitation at going to the slightly more distant exit.

AstralFire

2013-07-09, 06:27 PM

Yeah, I learned the old rule in 2nd grade, then my 3rd grade teacher taught us the modern rule. We had a little tiff over it.

I was the most pedantic little child. (I still have my moments, but I try...)

Vespification

2013-07-09, 06:33 PM

Those exist?

I think he's referring to the scene where Indy survives a nuclear explosion by hiding inside a lead-lined refrigerator. Or maybe I misunderstood and you're just saying nobody would want to quote that film, in which case comment redacted. :smalltongue:

AstralFire

2013-07-09, 06:35 PM

I think he's referring to the scene where Indy survives a nuclear explosion by hiding inside a lead-lined refrigerator. Or maybe I misunderstood and you're just saying nobody would want to quote that film, in which case comment redacted. :smalltongue:

I meant the latter, pretty much. I have no problem with it, but I think that is the first time since about three months after it came out that I've seen someone drop a reference to it.

137beth

2013-07-09, 06:36 PM

So, I guess this settles the question of "will destroying the gate trigger an explosion (like in Azure city) or not (like with Lirian's gate)?"

pendell

2013-07-09, 06:38 PM

As unnerving as it is to see V in this position (and as much as V is one of my favorite characters, per avatar), I think the elf is going to come out of it all alive. Why?

Because Vaarsuvius has hit rock bottom. And now he needs to claw her way back up. We've seen the fall. Now we need to see the redemption.

Not necessarily.
When you hit rock bottom, you have three choices:

1) Get back out.
2 )Stay where you are and moan in self-pity.
3) Start digging. Double down on stupid.

You would be AMAZED at how many people, real-life, choose option 3.

Now I agree that I would prefer 1 as well myself -- atonement/redemption is my favorite story -- but it's not strictly necessary that the Giant put us on that path yet. Assuming it's the one he has in mind. But I think it does. For all his snark, he seems to be interested in having the good guys win in the end and have a happy ending. As opposed to other strips which are more than willing to let the characters' best hope and dreams fall apart and become a symphony of absurd meaninglessness. In that way OOTS is not postmodern in any way at all. There are heros , there are villains, and the heroes win.

I LIKE OOTS.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

AstralFire

2013-07-09, 06:39 PM

So, I guess this settles the question of "will destroying the gate trigger an explosion (like in Azure city) or not (like with Lirian's gate)?"

One might say that it closed the door on that discussion.

Aquillion

2013-07-09, 06:40 PM

Rogar Demonblud

2013-07-09, 06:42 PM

Belkar has a plan?

Yikes.

Kancsar

2013-07-09, 06:44 PM

I think he's referring to the scene where Indy survives a nuclear explosion by hiding inside a lead-lined refrigerator.

"nuke the fridge" has got to be the low point of all the Indiana Jones movies, so i look forward to seeing how Giant ridicules it.

ManuelSacha

2013-07-09, 06:46 PM

greatest anti-allusion technique ever: LALALACAN'THEREYOU! :elan:

Hahahaha!
So that's what he was doing?
That kid is a genius.

Amphiox

2013-07-09, 06:46 PM

Hmm....

Some thoughts:

What if the IFCC's plan at the moment is actually to get V's body sucked into the Rift, so that when they return the soul V will be on the world inside the Rift. So their protection of V's body is not really just to protect it from the gate explosion and the crumbling pyramid, but to protect it while it falls through the Rift? And this is why they chose to use one of their longer time intervals rather than the short one (which would have been enough if all they wanted was to let Roy destroy the Gate), so that they can keep V's body immobilized until it is sucked in?

Alternately, they'll get V trapped under tonnes of rubble at the moment they return the soul, and leverage that situation into trying to manipulate another deal out of V. (Though in that case V would have the option to go 'screw you, I choose to let myself die right here').

Perhaps Belkar is leading the Order back to where Durkon and Malack fought. Maybe he saw something in that vicinity while crawling back to the others?

And maybe Belkar is about to make is check-out-for-good heroic sacrifice?

Tock Zipporah

2013-07-09, 06:47 PM

Wouldn't be the mounts outside the pyramid? The rest was heading outside.

My guess is that he wants the Order to hide inside Girard's sacrophagus. Hey, it's big enough :smalltongue:

That's what I'm thinking. If you look back at

this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0841.html), panels 5 and 6, you see that the stairs the Order are emerging from in Panel 10 of Comic #898 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0898.html) are directly across from the sarcophagus.

Castamir

2013-07-09, 06:49 PM

What's the point in carrying Mr Scruffy? In D&D, his base speed is 30ft, in RL, it's faster than humans.

That's speed, and as for running the right way: even untrained RL animals know by instinct that if others run in a panic, they likely have an idea what the danger is and that you should follow -- in nature, that's a far better idea than any uninformed guess. And he's not your average wild animal but a D&D Animal Companion -- a creature with an unrealistically good skill at following orders.

jidasfire

2013-07-09, 06:52 PM

I'll put down money that this is not an illusion. The gate is about to be kaput, which was inevitable, but I am impressed that it was Roy who did it, since my money was on Nale or V to do the deed this time around. I quite liked that Roy finally trusts Belkar, and that the little bastard is becoming a truly valuable and useful team member.

The only thing we still need in this arc is a final showdown. Everyone's clamoring for Xykon, but I would be perfectly happy for the Order to have a halfway decent victory against the Linear Guild. Tarquin's a fascinating character, but I can't see him in this for the long game. Malack needs to be taken down, preferably by Roy and his new feat. It would be nice to see Belkar defeat a flying, fire-breathing kobold while he can't even fight. And really, I think at this point, Nale has sort of run his course. He's not even really proving that relevant in the current conflict after all. So yeah, however else it all goes down, I hope we get that much.

AstralFire

2013-07-09, 06:52 PM

What's the point in carrying Mr Scruffy? In D&D, his base speed is 30ft, in RL, it's faster than humans.

Rubble. Chasms. People acting irrationally when their domesticated pet is in danger and they have little time to think.

Tock Zipporah

2013-07-09, 06:57 PM

jidasfire

2013-07-09, 06:59 PM

Also, Haley now has boots of speed (though they are no longer lime green), so it stands to reason she could outpace a housecat, who, while he may be smarter than the average feline, probably still doesn't quite understand the whole Gate/Rift explosion thing.

Breccia

2013-07-09, 07:01 PM

Here is what I saw flitting through Roy's mind in the second-to-last panel:

Happy Birthday to you,
Happy Birthday to you,
Happy Birthday dear Belk OMG A THOUSAND TONS OF STONE ARE GOING TO CRUSH THE HALFLING I AM NOT GOING THAT WAY
...
Happy Birthday to you!

And here is what went through his mind in the last panel:

Oh wait, Belkar's been in the underbelly of the pyramid more than anyone else. Those pesky Knowledge ranks are telling me the little murderer might actually know what he's talking about.

Canisius

2013-07-09, 07:08 PM

Roy's sword glowed as if it were expressing its "plus to undead" bonus.

Porthos

2013-07-09, 07:10 PM

Roy's sword glowed as if it were expressing its "plus to undead" bonus.

It's done that before when he gets really emotional. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0349.html)

AstralFire

2013-07-09, 07:10 PM

Roy's sword glows at dramatically appropriate moments. It glowed when fighting Miko, for example. It may trigger against alignment rather than against merely undead, or it may just fire on crits, or it may fire in some way that only it understands, because magic swords are cooler when they aren't wholly understood.

gorocz

2013-07-09, 07:11 PM

The rift and the gate aren't the same thing, though. Once the gate explodes, the rift will still be there, but the gate will be gone. I'm pretty sure this means Xykon has to be within 1,000 feet before the gate explodes.

The question was:
"If the lich sorcerer commonly referred to as "Xykon" will ever be, at some future point in time, within a 1000-foot radius of one of these magical gates, of which of these locations will he be within said radius first, chronologically?"

Now, if he is ever going to be within 1000-foot radius of Kraagor's Gate, then the condition is met and if he appears in the said radius of the location of Girard's Gate first, the correct answer (by formal logic) is Girard's Gate...

Chessgeek

2013-07-09, 07:16 PM

They better not be pulling a Tomb of Horrors on us. Also, greatest anti-allusion technique ever: LALALACAN'THEREYOU! :elan:

Now we are just left to wonder why Elan is trying to avoid references...:smallconfused::smalltongue:

Paisley

2013-07-09, 07:18 PM

Ah, so that jagged thing was crystal? Thought it was a staircase, for some reason. I feel rather dense now.

Loved the strip, especially the last few panels. :smallsmile:

Canisius

2013-07-09, 07:18 PM

It's done that before when he gets really emotional. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0349.html)

It's been decades since I played D&D, so though I've read this entire comic through, I can't figure out whether visual effects are rooted in the gaming system or just creative license exercised by Rich.

The strip you linked to shows him up against bat-girl, a succubus, iirc (sorry, I'm not that OOTS-literate). Maybe not vs undead - vs Evil? I'd be grateful if someone could link to the strips explaining the glow.

<insert obligatory speculation that this will FINALLY result in Belkar's drawing his last breath, whatever that means.>

Grey Watcher

2013-07-09, 07:18 PM

The question was:
"If the lich sorcerer commonly referred to as "Xykon" will ever be, at some future point in time, within a 1000-foot radius of one of these magical gates, of which of these locations will he be within said radius first, chronologically?"

Now, if he is ever going to be within 1000-foot radius of Kraagor's Gate, then the condition is met and if he appears in the said radius of the location of Girard's Gate first, the correct answer (by formal logic) is Girard's Gate...

But Xykon being within 1000 feet of the Gate (not the site of the Gate) is specified as a condition, is it not? Nevermind, I see what you're saying now.

Personally, I think it'd be hilarious if he teleported in just in time to get an epic world-shattering explosion to the face. :smalltongue:

(Actually, that'd be quite a way for him to learn about the whole phylactery-switcheroo stuff that happened earlier.)

VeliaRae

2013-07-09, 07:19 PM

Hm. I'm surprised some people are tired of this arc; I have loved the whole pyramid adventure. To each their own I guess!

I'm also wondering how exactly V is going to survive, get out from under the pyramid, reunite with the Order, etc. Although...

If Xykon is still supposedly on his way, how much would it suck if a still spell-less V somehow crawled out of the rubble and came face to face with him? I'm pretty sure it would be a LONG time before he got back to the Order if that happened...

P.S.: Am I doing the spoiler tags right? :smallredface:

Flame of Anor

2013-07-09, 07:22 PM

For clarity's sake:

OLD RULE: You must never have an apostrophe-and-s immediately following an s.
MODERN RULE: You may have an apostrophe-and-s immediately following an s when the word is singular.

I am randomly picky about certain things, so I still favor the old rule in this case.

That's actually not the old rule. The classic rule, which is still standard, is as follows:

If the name ends in -s and the pronunciation is not terribly awkward, add -'s.

Robert Burns's poetry is difficult to understand.
Charles Dickens's novels contain an astonishing number of characters.

There are a few exceptions to this rule, of course. One common deviation is when only an apostrophe is added to proper nouns that end in -s: Jesus, Moses, and Greek names of more than one syllable ending in -es.

source (http://www.scribendi.com/advice/using_apostrophes.en.html)

AstralFire

2013-07-09, 07:22 PM

VeliaRae

2013-07-09, 07:28 PM

If you mean "are they functioning?" Yes.

I think people spoiler their theories to avoid the chance of tempting Mr. Burlew into doing something contrary (as I believe he's stated that reading theories gives him the urge to do just that). But I don't know. I never bothered to think about it before now.

Yeah that is why I was thinking I should be doing it. But I've also seen people not spoilering theories so I'm not sure if that's still a rule...

AstralFire

2013-07-09, 07:32 PM

Well, as far as I know, it's not a rule, it's a custom. But while I've been here a long time, I am only here intermittently.

Porthos

2013-07-09, 07:34 PM

It's been decades since I played D&D, so though I've read this entire comic through, I can't figure out whether visual effects are rooted in the gaming system or just creative license exercised by Rich.

The strip you linked to shows him up against bat-girl, a succubus, iirc (sorry, I'm not that OOTS-literate). Maybe not vs undead - vs Evil? I'd be grateful if someone could link to the strips explaining the glow.

It's never been explained. As AstralFire noted, it also glowed against Miko. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0408.html)

It's energy property is mentioned here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0297.html)

Aside from observation, that's all we really know about it.

Komodo

2013-07-09, 07:34 PM

I'm sure someone has said this already, but I'm not going to read through all the responses...

WHY! Did you have to end the strip right there?! You know it's just going to torment us! Belkar's accomplishing something that doesn't involve murder! What is it?!

In all seriousness, I really like what you've been doing with the Sexy Shoeless God of War in this arc. Obviously, this means that something bad's about to happen to him.:smalleek: Can't wait to see what happens next!

Chessgeek

2013-07-09, 07:42 PM

Well, as far as I know, it's not a rule, it's a custom. But while I've been here a long time, I am only here intermittently.

Rich used to want predictions "spoilered" because if he read a correct speculation he would be tempted to change the story so that the speculator would be wrong. At some point he decided he wouldn't be impacted by reading a speculation, correct or otherwise, so spoiling predictions has (mostly) fallen out of practice.

Incom

2013-07-09, 07:43 PM

So, to summarize: collapse-boxing speculation was a rule a long time ago; it is no longer required, but it's still done sometimes out of tradition.

Defiant

2013-07-09, 07:45 PM

Rich used to want predictions "spoilered" because if he read a correct speculation he would be tempted to change the story so that the speculator would be wrong. At some point he decided he wouldn't be impacted by reading a speculation, correct or otherwise, so spoiling predictions has (mostly) fallen out of practice.

Personally, I find it good manners for those of us that aren't interested in rampant deep speculation, some of which may be correct and ruin the surprise later on. (Though I'm not saying that the converse, abstaining from the use of spoilers, is bad manners)

MoonCat

2013-07-09, 08:00 PM

I've not checked the other pages, but why is Elan saying "La la la! I can't hear you!" on the seventh panel?

Tragak

2013-07-09, 08:01 PM

I've not checked the other pages, but why is Elan saying "La la la! I can't hear you!" on the seventh panel? He's ignoring the illusion runes. Elan's way :smallwink:

Rakoa

2013-07-09, 08:02 PM

I've not checked the other pages, but why is Elan saying "La la la! I can't hear you!" on the seventh panel?

It was because Elan is Chaotic Evil and wanted an excuse not to save the cat.

Actually, he was directing it at the enchanted mind runes he was running past. Hoping that by pretending not to be able to hear them, the group wouldn't get caught in them again. Or something like that.

MoonCat

2013-07-09, 08:04 PM

He's ignoring the illusion runes. Elan's way :smallwink:

It was because Elan is Chaotic Evil and wanted an excuse not to save the cat.

Actually, he was directing it at the enchanted mind runes he was running past. Hoping that by pretending not to be able to hear them, the group wouldn't get caught in them again. Or something like that.

Ah. How very... typically Elan. :smallbiggrin:

Thanks to both of you. :smallsmile:

AstralFire

2013-07-09, 08:06 PM

Don't feel bad, I had to ask the same question.

jere7my

2013-07-09, 08:11 PM

BroomGuys

2013-07-09, 08:13 PM

How do we know he's not?

Why, that's just my point! I think he is.

Amphiox

2013-07-09, 08:13 PM

ellindsey

2013-07-09, 08:14 PM

The question was:
"If the lich sorcerer commonly referred to as "Xykon" will ever be, at some future point in time, within a 1000-foot radius of one of these magical gates, of which of these locations will he be within said radius first, chronologically?"

Now, if he is ever going to be within 1000-foot radius of Kraagor's Gate, then the condition is met and if he appears in the said radius of the location of Girard's Gate first, the correct answer (by formal logic) is Girard's Gate...

That was my interpretation as well. The Oracle's prophecy is still accurate even if Xykon shows up at the (former) location of Girard's gate after it is destroyed, so long as he is within a 1000-foot radius of the still-intact Kraagor's gate at some later time. Roy really out-thought himself with that question.

TRH

2013-07-09, 08:17 PM

No one seems to have mentioned this (as far as I can see), but just as Haley is carrying Mr. Scruffy, Roy is carrying Belkar as they're fleeing!

In like 5 strips, without overt mention of it, Roy has had some impressive character development here....

That's one way to think about it. Another would be, "plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose":

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0005.html

RadagastTheBrow

2013-07-09, 08:30 PM

It's never been explained. As AstralFire noted, it also glowed against Miko. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0408.html)

It's energy property is mentioned here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0297.html)

Aside from observation, that's all we really know about it.

Fantastic. Because, you know, nothing can ever be just randomly positive. :roy:

I suspect this may be just it. I played a campaign once where, whenever the bard played his music, he had a 1 in 4 chance of his lute catching on magic fire. Could be something similar.

AstralFire

2013-07-09, 08:32 PM

I suspect this may be just it. I played a campaign once where, whenever the bard played his music, he had a 1 in 4 chance of his lute catching on magic fire. Could be something similar.

That's what I call phat lute. :smallcool:

dbsousa

2013-07-09, 08:39 PM

Hahahaha!
So that's what he was doing?
That kid is a genius.
I suggest that Elan is covering his ears and "la la la"-ing so he won't hear Haley say "I love you", because then one of them would have to die, per the rules of epic fiction.

t209

2013-07-09, 08:44 PM

Well, that was a downer ending. Thanh and Resistance are dead. Gate is destroyed and Durkon's dead. FUBAR, men.

SaintRidley

2013-07-09, 08:44 PM

Since you asked, and nobody else bothered to answer, when a word ends in 's' and you want to make it possessive, you add an apostrophe, but you don't add an extra 's'. So the correct grammar would be "I hope Vaarsuvius' body is okay." I know that's not how it's pronounced, it doesn't make sense to me either.

That's only if it's already plural. Vaarsuvius's is correct.

Flame of Anor is right about names like Jesus and Moses, though. Although in the case of Jesus, it's because we kind of went with the genitive form of the name for all other uses, too. Iesu became Iesus/Iesues in the genitive, but eventually Iesus/Jesus just became standard for everything else. Since the genitive is the only case we mark for anymore, we treat his name the same way we treat the genitive plural of nouns ending in s.

As for Moses, it's pretty much just because.

Gusion

2013-07-09, 08:45 PM

I think it is nice that Haley grabbed Mr. Scruffy.

Good to see that Roy is listening to Belkar for once. Good choice on his part.

DaggerPen

2013-07-09, 08:45 PM

Yeah, I'm guessing the explosions were something the Gate guardians added themselves. Dorukan's explosion was yellow (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0120.html), like his magic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0196.html). Soon's was blue (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0463.html), like every Azurite divine caster's magic. Now Girard's explosion is purple, like his magic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0695.html).

Oh man, I didn't even catch that. Since the Scribblers sealed the gates as a group, I doubt it was just their magic itself in the gates, so that explanation makes a lot of sense.

Also, yay for Mr. Scruffy being okay!

Chessgeek

2013-07-09, 08:48 PM

I suggest that Elan is covering his ears and "la la la"-ing so he won't hear Haley say "I love you", because then one of them would have to die, per the rules of epic fiction.

No, they were running past the runes that cast the dream spell (I forget the actual name) and Elan was "la la la"-ing so that the runes wouldn't activate again.

Anatares

2013-07-09, 08:58 PM

Is anyone else bothered by the fact that the Order has not expressed any amount of concern over Vaarsuvius' disappearance? Especially now with them fleeing a pyramid that's about to go boom. They haven't seen him/her in a while, and only have passive speculation as to where s/he's gotten to, with an attitude like "Meh. S/he'll turn up later." We know V's body is still inside, but they should reasonably be able to assume the same. Especially Haley. We saw V lose his/her mind trying to locate Haley for almost the entirety of the last book, but V disappears in a panic and she hasn't expressed anything about it. What gives Starshine?

To sum up, I'm worried about V :smalleek: I know s/he's technically invincible right now, but the clock's ticking on that.

Sky_Schemer

2013-07-09, 08:59 PM

Tannhaeuser

2013-07-09, 09:00 PM

Since you asked, and nobody else bothered to answer, when a word ends in ‘s’ and you want to make it possessive, you add an apostrophe, but you don’t add an extra ‘s’. So the correct grammar would be “I hope Vaarsuvius’ body is okay.” I know that’s not how it’s pronounced, it doesn’t make sense to me either.

Well, yes and no. Although the use of s’ alone is becoming increasingly accepted, historically s’s, in combinations such as “James’s”, is perfectly acceptable (as in T.S. Eliot’s couplet, “In all of St. James’s/The smartest of names is”, where the rhyme serves to indicate pronunciation). The apostrophe originally stood for an omitted i or y, which was used in archaic possessives in -is or -ys, (as in the Latin third declension), e.g., “As thei went talking be the way, The munke and Litull John, John toke the munkis horse be the hede, Ful sone and anon.”* [Robin Hood and the Monk, c. 1450.] Of course, early printers, with a fine disdain for consistency, would use or ignore the apostrophes in possessives just as their fancies wrought.

So “Vaarsuvius’s” is fine, and “Vaarsuvius’” is fine, “and all is right as right can be.”

By the way ― way to go, Belkar! Always a funny character, but now becoming increasingly interesting.

Aaarrrggghhh!!! I curse you, Luke and Laura and Forum Ninjas!

* “As they, the monk and Little John, went talking along the way, John suddenly took the monk’s horse by the head.” It doesn’t end well for the monk, by the way; the horse’s head is not the only one that John takes.

Sky_Schemer

2013-07-09, 09:00 PM

That was my interpretation as well. The Oracle's prophecy is still accurate even if Xykon shows up at the (former) location of Girard's gate after it is destroyed, so long as he is within a 1000-foot radius of the still-intact Kraagor's gate at some later time. Roy really out-thought himself with that question.

Nope. The Oracle's answer specifically said "within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate".

Oko and Qailee

2013-07-09, 09:02 PM

Is anyone else bothered by the fact that the Order has not expressed any amount of concern over Vaarsuvius' disappearance?

I mean Roy weny out to look for her. It's just there are more pressing matters. There's not really any time to look for V when the Linear Guild was right behind them.

137beth

2013-07-09, 09:02 PM

Belkar has a plan?

Yikes.
Any Roy only goes along with it because Elan told him to. Yikes:smallsmile:

zimmerwald1915

2013-07-09, 09:04 PM

Is anyone else bothered by the fact that the Order has not expressed any amount of concern over Vaarsuvius' disappearance?
Roy's already considered the problem, and has decided they have more important things to worry about (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0848.html). Even in strip 848, the most likely theories Roy could come up with were that V was outside hiding invisibly, on another plane, or dead, all of which would keep her fairly safe from the explosion.

EDIT: darned ninjas...

Sky_Schemer

2013-07-09, 09:07 PM

Is anyone else bothered by the fact that the Order has not expressed any amount of concern over Vaarsuvius' disappearance?

They expressed about as much concern as they could in 853 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0853.html) given the circumstances, and in 865 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0865.html) they still figured they had time to find him/her.

After that point, Durkon got vamped and the LG was hot on their trail. What, exactly, were they supposed to do?

M.A.D

2013-07-09, 09:07 PM

By the next strip, we'll be able to tell whether the Order destroyed the gate or not by auditory familiarity

ellindsey

2013-07-09, 09:16 PM

Nope. The Oracle's answer specifically said "within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate".

Specifically, Roy stated that there are two magical gates, Girard's and Kraagor's, and asked which gate's location Xykon will be within 1000 feet of. The Oracle replied (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html) "Of those two given locations, Xykon will be within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate first". This can be interpreted to mean that Xykon will be within 1000 feet of the (current) location of Girard's gate (after it is destroyed) first. You might not interpret it that way, but we have already seen that the Oracle is willing to apply unexpected yet technically correct interpretation to the questions he's asked and the answers given to them.

WolvesbaneIII

2013-07-09, 09:16 PM

I believe that the term "gate" or "rift" in terms of the oracles prophecy would be accurate.

Girards rift or girards gate I feel are almost synonymous.

But feel free to disagree.

DaggerPen

2013-07-09, 09:18 PM

Re: the V hunt: I figure that they think that V is either somewhere safe from the krackakoom or dead. Probably, once they're outside and the current crisis has died down, Haley will use that scroll of Sending (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0834.html) Durkon gave her to try to contact V. If V's soul time has expired by that point, and zie's still caught under the rubble, they'll come dig zir out if so necessary.

I'm not sure why Haley didn't try that Sending before they decided to blow the Gate, though. Guess she just forgot she had it or something.

Cynric

2013-07-09, 09:23 PM

Damn, this getting tense.
Also, I can't see why they're so surprised that they have to leg it. They've seen two gates destroyed, and both times it led to horizon altering explosions.

Eh, whatever. I just hope Belkar's newly acquired reliability doesn't get black balled by the universe.:smalleek:

DaggerPen

2013-07-09, 09:27 PM

Also, I have to say, Belkar's running surprisingly well. I guess adrenaline really helps make up for that Con loss.

zimmerwald1915

2013-07-09, 09:30 PM

Also, I have to say, Belkar's running surprisingly well. I guess adrenaline really helps make up for that Con loss.
So does being carried much of the way.

DaggerPen

2013-07-09, 09:32 PM

So does being carried much of the way.

...

......

*buries face in both hands and hides*

For some reason I thought he was running for more than just the "this way" panel and had just been initially carried away. Nevermind. :smallredface:

Lombard

2013-07-09, 09:34 PM

Fabulous strip, awesome kinetic feel with character development ala mode

give yourself a high five, Giant :thog:

CelestialStick

2013-07-09, 09:36 PM

He's off panel. He's moving left in panel 10, you can see the edge of his cape in panel 11 as he moves out of sight, and in panel 12 he's somewhere to the left of the visible area.

Belkar continued in the direction he was facing, taking him off-panel left. Roy, Elan and Haley followed. As Haley changed directions Mr. Scruffy streams out behind her, causing Mr. Scruffy to end up off-panel right.

I kind of thought what you were both saying, except that it sort of looks like they're moving in the oppose direction in the last panel, and that it seems like an odd way to end a strip if it doesn't signify anything more.

For clarity's sake:

OLD RULE: You must never have an apostrophe-and-s immediately following an s.
MODERN RULE: You may have an apostrophe-and-s immediately following an s when the word is singular.

I am randomly picky about certain things, so I still favor the old rule in this case.

Those exist?

I learned the old rule back in grammar school in the 1960s. Many years later I learned that it's acceptable to use an "s" after the apostrophe if you would actually pronounce the second "s." So you could write, "Jones's hat" if you really said "Jones's" as though it were spelled "Jonses" (gollum, gollum). :smallbiggrin:

Mido

2013-07-09, 09:37 PM

Panel 7 is priceless.

Title misled me. For a while there I thought it was a fight rumble, not a crumble rumble. Doesn't bode well for V's unoccupied body.

Loving the team mechanic going on with the remainder of the OOTS so far. They're hobbled but different people are stepping up and contributing where they just used to just be dead weight. I think this arc may be the one that solidifies them as a team (so far so good anyway). Belkar seems to have the largest leap in improvement on that regard.

So many interesting plot threads to be answered. Can't wait for the next one. :smallbiggrin:

Ivrytwr

2013-07-09, 09:38 PM

Hang on sports fans, it's about to get exciting.
Just like a Vin Diesel movie!

CelestialStick

2013-07-09, 09:38 PM

gorocz

2013-07-09, 09:39 PM

If you are going to be that pedantic about the question, then you need to be equally pedantic about the answer:

"Of those two given locations, Xykon will be within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate first".

He said "gate", specifically.

Check my signature ;-)

Epinephrine_Syn

2013-07-09, 09:42 PM

The exact quote is If the lich sorcerer commonly referred to as "Xyon will ever be, at some future point in time, within a 1000-foot radius of one of these two magical gates, of which of those locations will he be within said radius first, chronologically (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html). He refers both to the gates themselves and their locations, which I think means Xykon must be within 1,000 feet of the location with the gate still in it in order to fulfill the prophecy.

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but the way that this is worded leaves us with the option that Xykon will never come within 1000 ft of either location.

Don't know how likely this is, but food for thought.

Ghost Nappa

2013-07-09, 09:48 PM

Rubble. Chasms. People acting irrationally when their domesticated pet is in danger and they have little time to think.

Roleplaying.

Vespification

2013-07-09, 09:48 PM

Wild Mass Guessing:
If Belkar's plan really is for the party to hide in the sarcophagus, and assuming that it won't be completely destroyed by the collapsing lair, does that mean that it's going to fall into the expanding rift? The heroes would hear that the sounds outside have stopped, everything's calm, Roy shoves the coffin lid off of the group... and they all find themselves in Snarl-World.

Sky_Schemer

2013-07-09, 09:56 PM

You might not interpret it that way, but we have already seen that the Oracle is willing to apply unexpected yet technically correct interpretation to the questions he's asked and the answers given to them.

But he has not been technically incorrect, either. His answer uses very specific wording: "within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate first". Not Girard's rift, or a circle around the ruins where Girard's Gate once stood, but the gate specifically.

The "of those two locations" bit was put in there in order to exclude Soon's gate from the chronology, so that the statement "within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate first" becomes correct.

Sky_Schemer

2013-07-09, 09:57 PM

Check my signature ;-)

Yeah, I know. Arguments involving facts do not belong on the internets. :smallsmile:

IronMountaineer

2013-07-09, 09:58 PM

Gift Jeraff

2013-07-09, 09:58 PM

If they are going inside of Girard's crypt, I'm betting Belkar stays outside in order to seal it properly (by pressing whatever went "click!" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0846.html) in the boot). Complete with tearjerking yelling at Scruffy to stay inside.

gorocz

2013-07-09, 10:03 PM

Wouldn't the Orical say neither instead of specifying a gate if Xykon never comes withing 1000 ft of either location?

In logic, if you have an implication (if a then b), then if a is false, then the statement as a whole is true regardless of b so if Roy's premise (Xykon ever being in a 1000-foot radius from either of the gates) was incorrect, Oracle could say either of the gates or "neither" and be correct...

ellindsey

2013-07-09, 10:03 PM

But he has not been technically incorrect, either. His answer uses very specific wording: "within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate first". Not Girard's rift, or a circle around the ruins where Girard's Gate once stood, but the gate specifically.

The question had a very specific wording: "... of which of those locations will he be within said radius first".

The oracle replied specifically "Of those two given locations, Xykon will be within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate first".

This isn't incorrect even if the gate is destroyed before Xykon gets there. Xykon will be within 1000 feet of the (current as of the time the question was asked) location of Girard's gate first. Roy was asking which location Xykon would be near, not which gate, and the Oracle is required to answer the question asked, not the question that should have been asked.

CelestialStick

2013-07-09, 10:05 PM

Yeah, I know. Arguments involving facts do not belong on the internets. :smallsmile:

Is there more than one internet? :smallbiggrin:

Sky_Schemer

2013-07-09, 10:07 PM

The question had a very specific wording: "... of which of those locations will he be within said radius first".

The oracle replied specifically "Of those two given locations, Xykon will be within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate first".

This isn't incorrect even if the gate is destroyed before Xykon gets there. Xykon will be within 1000 feet of the (current as of the time the question was asked) location of Girard's gate first. Roy was asking which location Xykon would be near, not which gate, and the Oracle is required to answer the question asked, not the question that should have been asked.

It is the answer that matters more than the question. The wording of the answer is very, very specific: "within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate first."

The answer provides more specific information than was implied by the question. That is what is tripping you up here.

Sky_Schemer

2013-07-09, 10:08 PM

Is there more than one internet? :smallbiggrin:

I meant the intertubes. :smallwink:

ellindsey

2013-07-09, 10:12 PM

The answer provides more specific information than was asked for.

No, it doesn't. Look at the entire quote of the answer: "Of those two locations, Xykon will be within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate first.". Roy defined two locations in his question. The Oracle was asked which location that Xykon would be within 1000 feet of, and answered that question specifically. The answer is still accurate even if the gate isn't there anymore by the time Xykon arrives at the location.

Sky_Schemer

2013-07-09, 10:16 PM

No, it doesn't. Look at the entire quote of the answer: "Of those two locations, Xykon will be within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate first.". Roy defined two locations in his question. The Oracle was asked which location that Xykon would be within 1000 feet of, and answered that question specifically. The answer is still accurate even if the gate isn't there anymore by the time Xykon arrives at the location.

Again, you are focusing on the wrong details. The part about "of those two locations" is there to eliminate Soon's gate from the chronology. If the Oracle had just said:

"Xykon will be within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate first"

then the answer would have been wrong. Why? Because Xykon was within 1000 feet of Soon's gate first.

He has to qualify the answer to keep it technically correct while answering Roy's question. To qualify it, he must say "of the two locations [Roy has given]".

And, also again, it doesn't matter if he said "locations" in the first part of the sentance because the second part is so very, very specific. It is so specific that it supersedes the vagueness of the question. The second half of the answer is "Xykon will be within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate first".

That is very specific. He says gate. Very specifically. The word is "gate". Gate. Gate gate gate. There is no other way to interpret that correctly than to mean "the gate".

Inkling

2013-07-09, 10:17 PM

Oh dear. I just realized that even though V's body may be protected while he is with the 3, that doesn't mean that he won't be buried alive, or immediately crushed when he returns to it.

gorocz

2013-07-09, 10:24 PM

It is the answer that matters more than the question. The wording of the answer is very, very specific: "within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate first."

The answer provides more specific information than was implied by the question. That is what is tripping you up here.

Actually, I have just realised I can counter this argument too :smallbiggrin:

The exact answer is "Of those two given locations, Xykon will be within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate first."
If we take "within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate" as a descriptor defined at the moment of the prophecy, when the Gate was still there, the sphere that is defined by the radius around it will remain the same even after the destruction. And since we've estabilished before that the question asked for one "of those two given locations", it'd be incorrect to answer differently just because the gate's not there anymore. The descriptor remains the same while answering for the sake of better understanding and possibly not divulging any more of the future than is needed.

Menas

2013-07-09, 10:34 PM

And, also again, it doesn't matter if he said "locations" in the first part of the sentance because the second part is so very, very specific. It is so specific that it supersedes the vagueness of the question. The second half of the answer is "Xykon will be within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate first".

That is very specific. He says gate. Very specifically. The word is "gate". Gate. Gate gate gate. There is no other way to interpret that correctly than to mean "the gate".

This isn't taking into account the fact that the Oracle can see present and future tense at the same time. The Oracle could have chosen to provide the answer of "Xykon will be within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate first" based on the current status of the Gate (which was NOT destroyed at the time), knowing that it would be destroyed in the future before Xykon arrived. And he could have chosen to give that answer based on Roy's knowledge of where the gate was and what its status was at that point in time. Especially if he didn't want to tip anyone (namely Roy) off about the gate being destroyed in the future.

It's the same thing as saying 'Xykon will be within 1000 feet of where Girard's Gate currently stands first' and omitting the 'where' and 'currently stands' adjectives. It's not the Oracle's fault if the person receiving their message doesn't have enough knowledge at the time to interpret it correctly.

If you don't like my interpretation that's fine, I'm just bring up the point because I believe it's a valid interpretation of the events in question. Seems like a nonsensical debate to me really as the only way to know for sure what the Oracle meant in this case would be to actually ask the Oracle and hope that the Oracle is being honest with the answer (assuming an answer is provided), until enough information is gathered after the fact to know what really happened.

POST-SCRIPT: Dangit, ninja'ed by gorocz.

Quote

2013-07-09, 10:37 PM

Perhaps, foreshadowing.

And pardon if anyone else mentioned this.
Belkar is jumping as his movement rate..I cannot recall the last time this occurred.

A jump to save the "party" / that ring will come to do some good. As it did Roy......

tcrudisi

2013-07-09, 10:38 PM

Wow - I absolutely love this comic.

Belkar taking charge and Roy listening? It's beautiful. I think it really speaks a lot to their dynamics and Roy's leadership ability.

gorocz

2013-07-09, 10:42 PM

Halleflux

2013-07-09, 10:42 PM

Hmm.

An odd thought, probably irrelevant, and very unlikely, but just a bit of speculation: What if that wasn't the gate? What if it was more trickery? Just a red herring?

137beth

2013-07-09, 10:43 PM

Oh dear. I just realized that even though V's body may be protected while he is with the 3, that doesn't mean that he won't be buried alive, or immediately crushed when he returns to it.

Unlikely, given that it would prevent the other two IFCC members from being able to call in their debt later...

AstralFire

2013-07-09, 10:45 PM

Hmm.

An odd thought, probably irrelevant, and very unlikely, but just a bit of speculation: What if that wasn't the gate? What if it was more trickery? Just a red herring?

As a general rule, authors try not to pull the "Dallas" trick without giving the reader honest clues early on that it's not real. The longer an illusion or dream sequence continues and the more the audience gets invested in it, the more the audience dislikes it when the curtain's pulled back.

Forikroder

2013-07-09, 10:47 PM

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but the way that this is worded leaves us with the option that Xykon will never come within 1000 ft of either location.

Don't know how likely this is, but food for thought.

then the Oracle would ahve answered Neither, he said Girards Gate so that means that Xykon has arrived (or they blew up a fake gate/didnt blow it up as much as tehy thought)

Unlikely, given that it would prevent the other two IFCC members from being able to call in their debt later...

assuming they care about cashing in on the other 2

or maybe there going to chain cash it in

or maybe the Tunnel Vs in is sturdy enough to survive

WolvesbaneIII

2013-07-09, 10:56 PM

What if xykon flew over the temple before anyone found it by accident and it was within 1000 feet, therefore the prophecy has already been fulfilled.

What i mean it was still invisible before darth V killed everyone, xykon went for a flight "stroll" while everyone was still in azure city.

Flew around within 1000 feet by accident not noticing and flew away.

Forikroder

2013-07-09, 11:00 PM

What if xykon flew over the temple before anyone found it by accident and it was within 1000 feet, therefore the prophecy has already been fulfilled.

its possible, he does go on "unexplained" trips often enough he may have scouted out Girards Pyramid before alone from 1000 feet up so he can teleport there easier

i bet Belkars planning on pulling an Indiana jones and when there all inside the Tomb the skeleton turns to them and goes "i dont think weve been introduced"

Waspinator

2013-07-09, 11:17 PM

Given that this thing was designed by an illusionist, are we even sure it is really exploding?

JCAll

2013-07-09, 11:22 PM

I think Qarr will be the key to V's survival. He'll Plane Shift V's body to the IFCC headquarters before the ceiling collapses, then teleport out. The the IFCC will Plane Shift V back after reminding him he's their bitch.

Forikroder

2013-07-09, 11:28 PM

Given that this thing was designed by an illusionist, are we even sure it is really exploding?

what if there really wasnt a pyramid? what if that small tunnel they used had those runes on them and theyve been in an illusion ever since?

wiat waht if the Crystal Girard left didnt actually explode but spread crazy gas and the OoTS never left the desert?

wait what if Shojo and Girard were working together and Shojos story was jsut a distraction for Girard to trap the party?

wait what if Dorukons rune wasnt a kill rune but Girards rune and everyones been under an illusion the entire story?

Sky_Schemer

2013-07-09, 11:35 PM

Given that this thing was designed by an illusionist, are we even sure it is really exploding?

While certainly possible, this would be pretty bad storytelling.

Solara

2013-07-09, 11:36 PM

I may be probably am completely wrong here but my first guess was that Belkar's plan centers on him knowing a very fast way to get down the stairs. (ie: head first. It's one of those little things that works sooo much better on characters in a comic than in real life.) I mean if there's absolutely no time to go back up then going down might be the better bet, just looking at the way a pyramid's structured, the lower levels would be fairly safe in case of a collapse, and there's likely escape tunnels and such.

Whatever happens though, just gotta say, my respect level for Roy just went up like a hundred points. :smallsmile: The fact that he can put personal feelings and pride aside in a time like this just proves why he's a good leader and that last panel gave me some serious warm fuzzies.

I just keep hoping against hope this whole 'Belkar dies' thing is going to be a fake out though, because right after his quick thinking saves the party and all the other characters see him in a different light would be a depressingly obvious place to off him, from a storytelling standpoint. :frown:

Forikroder

2013-07-09, 11:38 PM

AstralFire

2013-07-09, 11:45 PM

If Belkar dies anytime soon, I would be very surprised if he doesn't remain a postmortem character.

Grey Watcher

2013-07-10, 12:32 AM

...

or maybe the Tunnel Vs in is sturdy enough to survive

I'm gonna go with this. It seems that he's literally at the very bottom of everything, and if, barring the listening holes, the rock above him is thick enough, that cone he's lying under is probably a pretty sturdy shape. Of course, I'm sure someone with a stronger physics or engineering background will come along and tell me that I'm totally wrong in this assessment. :smalltongue:

What if xykon flew over the temple before anyone found it by accident and it was within 1000 feet, therefore the prophecy has already been fulfilled.

What i mean it was still invisible before darth V killed everyone, xykon went for a flight "stroll" while everyone was still in azure city.

Flew around within 1000 feet by accident not noticing and flew away.

I was a fan of this theory (or a slight variant thereupon) before we learned of the death of the Draketooth Clan. I kind of gave up on it after we found out about the massacre, but it's still possible, I suppose.

Given that we don't know how much time passed between Niu fleeing Azure City, Niu sending to Hinjo, and Hinjo ordering a sending to the Order, and how much time Xykon needed to finish setting his Fortress-Tomb-Thingie's defenses, it's pretty difficult to tell where Team Evil should be right about now. Personally, I think they're in the Valley and will witness the pyramid collapsing/exploding. Now whether they withdraw immediately to pursue Kraagor's Gate or decide to investigate will play a big part in the rest of the plot.

Jay R

2013-07-10, 12:35 AM

OK, Tarquin, it's time. The protagonists have sweated and bled and died to overcome the many challenges inherent in finding the gate (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0821.html). If you antagonists intend to seize it from them at the last minute, I suggest that you hurry.

Good to see that Roy is listening to Belkar for once. Good choice on his part.

Everyone seems to be thinking that. We won't know if it was a good choice until we see Belkar's plan.

(Having said that, if the guy with only one hit point thinks he knows a safe place to go, I'm very likely to follow him.)

Question:

How come Girard's Gate is taking so long to go boom, but yet Lirian's and Soon's went boom instantly when destroyed. Why? Dorukan's does not count because it was on a (presumably timed) self-destruct so it's less likely to be size. Does this also mean that K's Gate will go boom instantly due to being smaller.

In the words of one of the great 20th century philosophers, "Not any time. Only when it was funny."

skim172

2013-07-10, 12:46 AM

Desperate heat of the moment and the fact that Roy seems mostly convinced they're dead if they just try to outrun it = willing to listen to the crazy guy with the crazy plan.

Someone mentioned that maybe Belkar's plan involves the flying carpet - that actually sounds really sensible and not that crazy.

(edit)
About the prophecy about Xykon being nearest to Girard's Gate - isn't it possible to interpret, "Of the two given locations, Xykon will be within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate first" as not that Xykon will be within 1000 ft of the actual Gate but of the location of the Gate? Meaning when this whole boondoggle is all done and over with, Xykon comes strolling over the desert, looks at the ruins and goes, "Huh, wasn't there supposed to be a Gate here?"

Of course, he might be waiting just outside the pyramid as well.

Forikroder

2013-07-10, 01:01 AM

OK, Tarquin, it's time. The protagonists have sweated and bled and died to overcome the many challenges inherent in finding the gate. If you antagonists intend to seize it from them at the last minute, I suggest that you hurry.

pretty sure that generally the Villain tries to seize it BEFORE the heros blow it up

About the prophecy about Xykon being nearest to Girard's Gate - isn't it possible to interpret, "Of the two given locations, Xykon will be within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate first" as not that Xykon will be within 1000 ft of the actual Gate but of the location of the Gate? Meaning when this whole boondoggle is all done and over with, Xykon comes strolling over the desert, looks at the ruins and goes, "Huh, wasn't there supposed to be a Gate here?"

Roy didnt ask "is Xykon going to be within 1000 feet of the spacial coordinates that are currently occupied by Girards gate" he asked if hes going to be near Girards gate which will no longer BE girards gate after it finishs going boom

jidasfire

2013-07-10, 01:12 AM

Well, that was a downer ending. Thanh and Resistance are dead. Gate is destroyed and Durkon's dead. FUBAR, men.

Well, it's not over yet, but things are pretty dire at this stage. I would say that if they can at least defeat the Linear Guild and Tarquin, they'll have accomplished something. And while it's not exactly the best way to win, this does mean Xykon and Team Evil are not going to stick around. A small victory perhaps, but it's something.

I think even in story, this is being acknowledged as the lowest point for the heroes. Roy, who's always been pretty steadfast, has lost his best friend and was about to give up. I'll admit, when Thanh died and then Durkon died, I felt that despair too. But the underlying message of the story seems to be that it's not time to give up yet. These are our heroes and the cavalry isn't coming, so somehow or other, they will find a way to pull it out.

I hope, anyway.

runeghost

2013-07-10, 01:20 AM

Gah! Every comic makes me crave the next one to soothe the suspense I feel, but every new one only makes it more suspenseful! Curse your masterful writing, Giant! Curse it!

I share your sentiment.:smallbiggrin:

gorocz

2013-07-10, 01:30 AM

pretty sure that generally the Villain tries to seize it BEFORE the heros blow it up

Roy didnt ask "is Xykon going to be within 1000 feet of the spacial coordinates that are currently occupied by Girards gate" he asked if hes going to be near Girards gate which will no longer BE girards gate after it finishs going boom

Actually, as we debated (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15586703&postcount=129) previously, he said location of, which is exactly that - "spacial coordinates that are currently occupied by..."

WoLong

2013-07-10, 01:32 AM

No one seems to have mentioned this (as far as I can see), but just as Haley is carrying Mr. Scruffy, Roy is carrying Belkar as they're fleeing!

In like 5 strips, without overt mention of it, Roy has had some impressive character development here....

Not leaving one under your command to die is well within the parameters of Roy's character.

rodneyAnonymous

2013-07-10, 01:45 AM

I hope Vaarsuvius's* body is okay.

*Is this correct grammar?

Since you asked, and nobody else bothered to answer, when a word ends in 's' and you want to make it possessive, you add an apostrophe, but you don't add an extra 's'. So the correct grammar would be "I hope Vaarsuvius' body is okay." I know that's not how it's pronounced, it doesn't make sense to me either.

It often gets stated that way, but it doesn't make sense because that's not true. (And the actual "rule" makes sense from a pronunciation standpoint.) It is not "when a word ends in s", it is when the word is plural (and ends with an s). Words that are singular but happen to end with the letter s get an apostrophe-s added when they are made possessive.

So wizards' school, but Vaarsuvius's class. Your grammar was correct.

No doubt this post will elicit a cavalcade of responses pointing out exceptions or even outright saying it's false, but they're wrong :P

Holy_Knight

2013-07-10, 02:11 AM

I'm guessing the next strip will be a cutaway to the Linear Guild. Not just to extend the cliffhanger with the Order, but because they have to have noticed the pyramid rumbling and it will be interesting to see their reactions.

Like a bunch of people have mentioned, I love Elan's "La la la la! I can't hear you!!!" moment. :smallbiggrin:

On another note, did anyone else think of the Adventure Game when seeing them fleeing the collapsing dungeon like this?

Steaditup

2013-07-10, 02:28 AM

Since the fiends went out of their way to point out that V's body is invulnerable in the last strip and he'll be returned to it in 20 minutes, my guess is that he'll end up through the rift and onto that planet inside while inert. He'll wake up there with Blackwing and then Send to the party afterwards. Revelations, intrigue, etc. Could be that the order of the scribble made up the snarl story to keep the hidden world a secret, which is reinforced by the fact that Roy tells Durkon not to ask Thor about it (so he couldn't tell them different).

factotum

2013-07-10, 02:28 AM

I'm sure somebody was saying at some point that Xykon had to be within 1000 feet of the intact Girard's Gate, not its ruins after Krakakoom...does this strip pretty much prove that wrong, or are we going to have Xykon teleporting in just in time to get an exploding Gate to the skull? :smallsmile:

Pendulous

2013-07-10, 02:40 AM

Remember, Belkar's not stupid. Well.....he is...but he isn't. In a situation like this, with him as sure of himself as he is, you just trust him. Roy knows this too. Something tells me V is gonna be ok. I'm just worried about how long each strip is (in minutes that is), so that V will be able to locate them.

JavaScribe

2013-07-10, 02:49 AM

If Xykon were to arrive after everyone else has already left, how long do you think he and Redcloak would spend to make sure the blown up ziggaraut isn't some sort of an elaborate trick?

BroomGuys

2013-07-10, 03:08 AM

Actually, as we debated (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15586703&postcount=129) previously, he said location of, which is exactly that - "spacial coordinates that are currently occupied by..."

Ok, let me post and unpack the entire sequence of dialogue so we're not missing anything:

:roy: There are two magical gates that Xykon might try to control next: Girard's Gate, on the western continent, or Kraagor's Gate, near the northern polar cap. If the lich sorcerer commonly referred to as "Xykon" will ever be, at some future point in time, within a 1000-foot radius of one of these two magical gates, of which of those locations will he be within said radius first, chronologically?
Oracle: Of those two given locations, Xykon will be within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate first.

Does this really sound like Rich is trying to craft a semantic distinction between where the location of a gate is and where the gate itself is? "Xykon will be within 1000 feet of Girard's Gate first" is not what you say when the gate won't actually be there when Xykon arrives, because it would only be accurate to say that Xykon is "where Girard's Gate used to be." Roy's question also quite specifically ties the locations to the gates that are there; "said radius" means "the radius he just said," which is "a 1000-foot radius of one of these two magical gates." To be within 1000 feet of a gate, the gate has to be there. I really just don't see a way to interpret Roy's question in a way that allows you to say that Xykon will show up at Girard's gate only after it's destroyed.

Throknor

2013-07-10, 03:27 AM

omnitricks

2013-07-10, 04:38 AM

Belkar? Idea? Uh oh... :P

Burner28

2013-07-10, 04:47 AM

Now this is a truly thrilling strip!

CelestialStick

2013-07-10, 04:53 AM

I meant the intertubes. :smallwink:

Are intertubes related to inner tubes? :smalltongue:

elros

2013-07-10, 05:04 AM

I really like how the Giant shows Belkar's development of a character. First he cares about Mr Scruffy, then he makes a decision that shows that he has some survival ability, and that being is ranger is more than just fighting with two weapons.

As for the plot, I really don't know what is going to happen from here. Obviously everyone will eventually head to the last gate, but there is probably going to have a whole lot happen before we get to that point.

Garwain

2013-07-10, 05:11 AM

So, who else do we know is buried under tons of rocks? From the evil oppposites?

CelestialStick

2013-07-10, 05:14 AM

what if there really wasnt a pyramid? what if that small tunnel they used had those runes on them and theyve been in an illusion ever since?

wiat waht if the Crystal Girard left didnt actually explode but spread crazy gas and the OoTS never left the desert?

wait what if Shojo and Girard were working together and Shojos story was jsut a distraction for Girard to trap the party?

wait what if Dorukons rune wasnt a kill rune but Girards rune and everyones been under an illusion the entire story?

What if they gave a gate, and nobody came? :smallbiggrin:

Holammer

2013-07-10, 05:15 AM

Can't help wonder if this will be Roy's "Spec Op: The line" moment. He's got no idea of the potential gravity of his choice to destroy the gate (sure, blame is shared across the party).
But he might have done something measured in meganazi.

b_jonas

2013-07-10, 05:20 AM

I was briefly suspicious that the explosion is the color of Girard's dweomer, but then, the Azure City explosion was the color of Soon's.

That doesn't count. The Azure City explosion was also the color of the sapphire that sealed the gate and around which the entire city was built. If anything, that means if this was the real Girard's gate, it would have to explode in white, because the gate is white.

Feruk

2013-07-10, 05:38 AM

That strip... was not what I was expecting based on the title. I really should learn to not take those titles literally!

Adeptus

2013-07-10, 05:48 AM

Oh dear, it worked! This exact thing has actually happend in a campaign I ran long ago, except it was a troll (Gloranthan) beating on a chaos crystal with a maul. It was about equally safe for all concerned.

Killer Angel

2013-07-10, 05:57 AM

Whatever happens though, just gotta say, my respect level for Roy just went up like a hundred points. :smallsmile: The fact that he can put personal feelings and pride aside in a time like this just proves why he's a good leader and that last panel gave me some serious warm fuzzies.

Well, it makes sense especially even more, if you consider personal feelings and preconcepts.
Is Belkar a little egocentric selfish halfling? then you can trust him on any problem related to immediate survival, that requires a quick escape.

Belril Duskwalk

2013-07-10, 05:58 AM

The location of my house is 123 Fake St. The oracle says Xykon will be within 1000 feet of the location of my house within the next year.

If my house burns down in six months, and Xykon comes strolling down Fake St in seven, does he fulfill the prophecy or not?

The 1000 foot radius' spherical center was defined by where the gate was when the question was asked. So depending how far down the gate was, and its not likely to be more than 1000' if they just ran up the stairs from it, Xykon can come by at any time to see the ruined temple and fulfill the prophesy.

It could be interpreted as being fulfilled. You define where your house currently is. Then you define a perimeter around your house's current location and ask the Oracle if Xykon will enter that perimeter. The presence or absence of your house within that perimeter by the time he gets there is largely irrelevant. You (and Roy) asked if Xykon would enter a perimeter around a given location, the status of the center of that location doesn't matter, because you established in your question that what matters is if Xykon will get within 1000 feet of where it currently is.

We're talking about a Kobold that argued that Belkar's presence as evidence that helped fuel Miko's breakdown led to Miko dying. And seconds later argued that by giving Roy a Ring of Jumping he caused Roy to die by falling off a zombie dragon because Roy couldn't have fallen off the dragon if he didn't have a way to get on it. I think trusting that there is only one possible interpretation of the truth, and that that interpretation is the most obvious, is patently ridiculous given our current evidence of how the Oracle operates.

hamishspence

2013-07-10, 06:00 AM

We're talking about a Kobold that argued that Belkar's presence as evidence that helped fuel Miko's breakdown led to Miko dying. And seconds later argued that by giving Roy a Ring of Jumping he caused Roy to die by falling off a zombie dragon because Roy couldn't have fallen off the dragon if he didn't have a way to get on it. I think trusting that there is only one possible interpretation of the truth, and that that interpretation is the most obvious, is patently ridiculous given our current evidence of how the Oracle operates.

and yet, despite his arguments, the actual fulfillment of the prophesy was straightforward (Don't Split The Party).

Same may apply here.

Gusion

2013-07-10, 06:00 AM

Unlikely, given that it would prevent the other two IFCC members from being able to call in their debt later...

We don't know this to be true. V originally thought he would only have to pay the debt AFTER his death, so he certainly thinks it is possible for the IFCC to claim their debt on his soul after death.

I doubt the IFCC would let V die this way; V alive is a better ROI.

And I don't think Giant wants V to die yet. He just needs to be out of the way because his presence would complicate things too much. We don't know V's full spell list, but presuming he returns to a physically safe body... Ethereal Jaunt will likely be enough to get him out of the rubble.

I think that Roy kinda feels the same way really... V ran away and while they really would like him to be around it doesn't help anything to spend time worrying about the most powerful member of the party when your own life is in danger.

luc258

2013-07-10, 06:36 AM

I don't see the problem with the prophecy. Xykon has already set out, as we know from the sending, and probably teleported somewhere close to the gate. So he is probably within 1000 yards of the gate, standing somewhere outside or he will arrive a split second before it goes boom (this is only a one in a million chance of course).

DeliaP

2013-07-10, 06:37 AM

and yet, despite his arguments, the actual fulfillment of the prophesy was straightforward (Don't Split The Party).

Same may apply here.

Well, I agree with you on the right interpretation of his answer to Belkar's question, but he did also answer "Where is Xykon?" with "In his throne room".

So, y'know, he has given the logically correct yet completely unhelpful answer when it suited him.

Still, my bets are added to the pile that says:
Xykon showing up in the last panel of #900, just in time to have seen the gate go all blown-uppy, and looking quite miffed.
with an side bet on
Tarquin's unseen activity involved actually getting in contact with Xykon, and when OotS make it out they run straight into the both of them! Eek!