Artificer's

[Greasy]

I'm allowing someone to play an Artificer in my non-eberron style, yet slightly borrowed ideas campaign.

I have never personally played an Artificer, and neither has he and I just have a quick question.

Is he really doing this?

[AuraTwilight]

Uh...what's the question, exactly?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Uh...what's the question, exactly?

I'll second this question.

Some general info on Artificers:

Getting the most bang for your class-level buck out of an artificer requires two things; a good amount of downtime (or a dedicated wright homonculous) and a metric crap-ton of book-keeping.

You could get away with just using a mess of scrolls and wands to mimic the casting ability of a sorcerer+ but that'd be selling the class well short of its potential. A sorcerer/ rogue/ arcane trickster with a rune-staff or two would be at about the same level of performance and wouldn't need to buy or craft anything beyond the normal adventuring gear.

Actually using the artificer's crafting ability to its fullest extent demands a solid grasp on what items exist and/or how the DM handles the custom item guidlines and several key infusions on the artificer list require the same (augment weapon and enhance armor lines).

It also requires that, like a wizard, you come up with a reliable means of determining what you'll need ahead of time, but moreso since a wizard can just leave slots open to prepare as needed.

Basically, the artificer has just about the greatest -potential- power and versatility of any class in the game but it also has just about the steepest learning curve to reach that potential.

[Greasy]

I'll second this question.

Some general info on Artificers:

Getting the most bang for your class-level buck out of an artificer requires two things; a good amount of downtime (or a dedicated wright homonculous) and a metric crap-ton of book-keeping.

You could get away with just using a mess of scrolls and wands to mimic the casting ability of a sorcerer+ but that'd be selling the class well short of its potential. A sorcerer/ rogue/ arcane trickster with a rune-staff or two would be at about the same level of performance and wouldn't need to buy or craft anything beyond the normal adventuring gear.

Actually using the artificer's crafting ability to its fullest extent demands a solid grasp on what items exist and/or how the DM handles the custom item guidlines and several key infusions on the artificer list require the same (augment weapon and enhance armor lines).

It also requires that, like a wizard, you come up with a reliable means of determining what you'll need ahead of time, but moreso since a wizard can just leave slots open to prepare as needed.

Basically, the artificer has just about the greatest -potential- power and versatility of any class in the game but it also has just about the steepest learning curve to reach that potential.

What I'm mostly concerned about is him knowing the majority of his spells and being able to imitate specific spells such as Vigor into any item capable of holding a spell. It just seems really really strong. Giving his weapon a bane ability at level, what, level Two? Free sneak attacks for a player without any of the pre-requisites of a sneak attack?

[Pandyman]

What I'm mostly concerned about is him knowing the majority of his spells and being able to imitate specific spells such as Vigor into any item capable of holding a spell. It just seems really really strong. Giving his weapon a bane ability at level, what, level Two? Free sneak attacks for a player without any of the pre-requisites of a sneak attack?

The artificer is just a very good class. It gets access to all spells from every class before those spells would normally be available to their respective class' list, but the biggest weakness is that an artificer needs more time to prepare than your average Wizard, Cleric, or Druid. An Artificer is also much more dependent on getting gold and/or magic items. A level 10 wizard that has gained 0 gold will greatly overpower a level 10 artificer with 0 gold, assuming they have similar optimization from the players.

It's pretty much just as Kelb said though. Artificer is a class that is on par with or greater than wizard, depending on how much the DM lets you get away with. The infusions are good, but minor when compared to the artificer's actual crafting ability. If he starts getting too powerful, you just need to give him less travel/preparation time, and possibly less gold.

It's a very manageable class though, since a DM can keep it from getting super powerful without modifying the class or any rules. It just requires you to keep an eye on the ability of the party, and adjust gold and rewards accordingly.

[Kelb_Panthera]

What I'm mostly concerned about is him knowing the majority of his spells and being able to imitate specific spells such as Vigor into any item capable of holding a spell. It just seems really really strong. Giving his weapon a bane ability at level, what, level Two? Free sneak attacks for a player without any of the pre-requisites of a sneak attack?

It's really not as strong as you're probably thinking. The hype surrounding the artificer gets a tad hyperbolic now and again.

Remember that -anything- an artificer can craft and use is available to -anyone- that's willing to invest in UMD and/or shell out the GP.

For the infusions, note the casting times. Virtually all of the unique effects (weapon and armor boosting, spell storing item, etc) require 1 minute or longer to cast and then only last 10 minutes per level.

Since all their infusion effects also have to be infused into an item (save when being used on a warforged or other construct) they're vulnerable to being sundered or stolen as well as retaining the normal vulnerability to dispelling.

[Alienist]

Recommended: use the magic item crafting rules from Pathfinder instead of the Eberron Artificer ones

Bane is a terrible choice if the DM mixes up the monsters.

E.g. instead of encounters with N x goblins, try adding some wargs to the mix.

Kobolds? Add some giant lizards to the mix.

Toss in some giant spiders and undead for a really retro feel.

One of the better things you can do offensively in combat is to cast heat/chill metal. Which is pretty universally regarded as 'meh'. If there's a Warblade or Barbarian in the party the enemy will die before the damage part of DoT can come online.

Defensively the Artificer has some really cool options. Lots of extra hit points if he knows how to dumpster dive.

Where the Artificer becomes a monster is that he gets to pretend to be a wizard two levels higher (when it comes to magic items). So it's entirely possible for the Artificer to pull out of his handy haversack exactly that one scroll to wreck your current encounter.

NB: scrolls have always had the ability to break your game, but generally nobody bothers.

NBNB: the crafting pool is a boat anchor cleverly disguised as a feature. (Hint - it's a trap!). The best thing about switching to Pathfinder magic item creation rules is that they don't require XP to make.

Really the only feature of any note that Artificers get is adding metamagic to scrolls and wands, and that's surprisingly feat intensive.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Recommended: use the magic item crafting rules from Pathfinder instead of the Eberron Artificer ones

Bane is a terrible choice if the DM mixes up the monsters.

E.g. instead of encounters with N x goblins, try adding some wargs to the mix.

Kobolds? Add some giant lizards to the mix.

Toss in some giant spiders and undead for a really retro feel.

One of the better things you can do offensively in combat is to cast heat/chill metal. Which is pretty universally regarded as 'meh'. If there's a Warblade or Barbarian in the party the enemy will die before the damage part of DoT can come online.

Defensively the Artificer has some really cool options. Lots of extra hit points if he knows how to dumpster dive.

Where the Artificer becomes a monster is that he gets to pretend to be a wizard two levels higher (when it comes to magic items). So it's entirely possible for the Artificer to pull out of his handy haversack exactly that one scroll to wreck your current encounter.

NB: scrolls have always had the ability to break your game, but generally nobody bothers.

NBNB: the crafting pool is a boat anchor cleverly disguised as a feature. (Hint - it's a trap!). The best thing about switching to Pathfinder magic item creation rules is that they don't require XP to make.

Really the only feature of any note that Artificers get is adding metamagic to scrolls and wands, and that's surprisingly feat intensive.

That's simply not true. The crafting pool serves two functions, it gives enough XP to craft one or two level appropriate items at each level without impeding your level advancement and (this is the big one) it acts as a receptacle when you use the retain essence feature; an absolutely fantastic feature for a crafter under the 3.X rules.

There's also the matter of experience being a river if it's being handled by the book.

Most crafting classes simply won't use up enough XP to actually fall a level behind for more than one or two encounters per level but should they actually burn off enough XP to fall a full level behind their party, they recieve around an extra 20% XP compared to their allies, ever after; more than enough to meet even an artificer's demanding needs unless he's in the habit of crafting items that produce spells with XP components.

A self-imposed +1 LA is more than a fair price for always having exactly the magic items you need/want at pretty much any given time and at half-price.