[3.5] Optimizing a 29th level psion(shaper) cohort.

[Phelix-Mu]

Hi Ho,

I have an idea in mind for build and feats and such, but I figure I can squeak a bit more mileage out of it by a bit of crowdsourcing. The DM sticks pretty close to official sources, so Hyperconscious is off the table *tears roll down face* and only 3.0 psionics from outside Psionic Handbook are allowable (as I ascribe to the conclusion of an earlier thread that EPH replaces all rules and mechanics presented in the 3.0 version of that book).

Current elements:
Human Shaper9/thrallherd1/constructor10/shaper6
...
As you can see, I'm missing a few levels here, and really don't know where to go. Thou shalt not lose ML is still applicable, but it's epic and the cheese flows like liquid velveeta, so missing a few ML is acceptable.

Desired Bits:
Epic Manifesting (DM approved and necessary to meet the op-level of the campaign)
Extend Power
Quicken Power
The pre-reqs to get Craft Psionic Construct
Psionic Tattoo feat
Psionic Tattoo Mastery (thanks to whomever it was in Tippy's Terrifically Terrible Trial that brought up that absolutely CRAZY 3.0 article on advanced psionic tattoos...a real gem of ambitious game design, there)

I'm using psychic chirurgery/psychic reformation shuffling via a telepath 17 thrall to avoid the need for Expanded Knowledge or the like. If there is a power out there, one of them learned it, shared it, and then shuffled the feats away. If there is a problem with this trick that any of you can see, let me know. The DM has converted all xp component costs to gp or additional power points, so that's not a factor.

So, tips? The money is flowing like water from the decanter of endless water, if you know what I mean, so consider that the best of everything will be acquired.

The real big question is those remaining class levels. What to do? So many choices.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Get Personal Construct (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a) at Psion 5, make Swift Action Astral Constructs.

Take fewer Psion levels, thanks to Practiced Manifester you can easily lose four ML without even worrying about it, more if you can take that multiple times. Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm) or Sanctified Mind (LoM) or Ectopic Adept or Anarchic Initiate would all be preferable to those Psion levels.

Keep a Psicrystal in a compartment on your person so opponents will never have line of sight/effect to it and cannot target it directly or hit it with area effects. Give it use-activated touch-range items to use on you. Keep Share Pain on it so you take half damage from all sources. Use Vigor and share it with it for a huge hp cushion.

Persistent Power appears in more than one (http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/msrd/ArcanaOccupationsandFeats.rtf) official source (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/msrd).

[Phelix-Mu]

Take fewer Psion levels, thanks to Practiced Manifester you can easily lose four ML without even worrying about it, more if you can take that multiple times. Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm) or Sanctified Mind (LoM) or Ectopic Adept or Anarchic Initiate would all be preferable to those Psion levels.

Keep a Psicrystal in a compartment on your person so opponents will never have line of sight/effect to it and cannot target it directly or hit it with area effects. Give it use-activated touch-range items to use on you. Keep Share Pain on it so you take half damage from all sources. Use Vigor and share it with it for a huge hp cushion.

Persistent Power appears in more than one (http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/msrd/ArcanaOccupationsandFeats.rtf) official source (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/msrd).

As always, some extremely solid advice. Let me address some points.

1.) Psion levels: The campaign goes up to 40. It's an epic cohort, clearly, so I was hoping to eventually cash in on psion levels in excess of 20 for the purposes of one bonus feat/3 levels, and the Psicrystal Power feat, which is quite nice. Plus, my build is eating a bunch of feats for things like Item Creation and the like, so loosing the standard psion bonus feats might be a problem. I pretty much need some source of these Item Creation feats, but maybe I can shift them to the thrall or another follower.... Normal campaign resources aren't available, as we are universe hopping, and pretty much need to be able to make stuff ourselves if I want it (our god-like Quartermaster npc was just disappeared by our enemies, so no more infinite items on demand and instant item improvement :smallfrown:)

But, in retrospect, I redesigned to start with more of the Constructor, and pushing off those bonus epic psion feats until later is totally diminishing returns.

So I will look up your references. Any idea on a constructor progression for epic constructors? That would be the "easy button" obviously.

2.) Psicrystal: I see that this is a useful strategy, but I already have a device via an epic psionic mythal that provides constant cover for my cohort if he needs it, via a cloud of invisible crystals (most very small via psionic shrink item), but a few large enough to block attacks without blocking LoS, all maneuvered telekinetically as a free action. I love the other tips.

I recall reading once some passing references to web-based stuff for making psicrystals better or tougher or the like. As 3.0 web content is on the table, I'm dredging up what I can, and psicrystal are clearly awesome fluff for shapers.

3.) Well, well, well. So the revenge of Persistent Power. Still seems to me that this is a d20 SRD, and the DM has so far limited it to D&D stuff. But we've branched out a bit, so maybe this will fly.

Anyway, thanks, this is good fodder.

[Rubik]

Get Personal Construct (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a) at Psion 5, make Swift Action Astral Constructs. Avoid personal construct and the 10th level of constructor. Take the Linked Power feat, from CPsi, instead, and for the cost of +1 pp and a few strategically chosen 1st level powers known, you can manifest astral constructs all day long as standard, move, swift, and immediate actions. They'll still show up next round, but that's not too bad, right?

Also, the chronocharm of the uncaring archmage allows you to manifest powers with a 1 round manifesting time as a standard action and have the effects occur immediately.

Also, you may consider metamind 10, since you're in epic. Infinite power points for 1 minute per day is pretty nice, and once your inherent manifester level is 20, losing ML isn't so bad, especially when a single Practiced Manifester can make up for most of it. Using PM for both psion and metamind allows you up to +8 ML, as well.

[Nettlekid]

Not to mention that with Metamind's capstone and Temporal Reiteration, you will have infinite power points forever until you miss 10 swift actions in a day.

Also, if you're that feat starved that you're using Epic Psion for feats, I suggest just doing something (less stupid than this example) like taking Fighter 4, Dark Chaos Feat Shuffling one of the three bonus feats you get into another Practiced Manifester to make up the ML loss, and DCFS the other two into whatever you want. Do the same with Feat Rogue. Also make use of the Magical Locations in Complete Scoundrel for a bunch of free feats that you can shuffle. And if he's evil, worship an Elder Evil for more. At Epic level, you basically never run out of feats to trade around.

[Phelix-Mu]

Not to mention that with Metamind's capstone and Temporal Reiteration, you will have infinite power points forever until you miss 10 swift actions in a day.

Also, if you're that feat starved that you're using Epic Psion for feats, I suggest just doing something (less stupid than this example) like taking Fighter 4, Dark Chaos Feat Shuffling one of the three bonus feats you get into another Practiced Manifester to make up the ML loss, and DCFS the other two into whatever you want. Do the same with Feat Rogue. Also make use of the Magical Locations in Complete Scoundrel for a bunch of free feats that you can shuffle. And if he's evil, worship an Elder Evil for more. At Epic level, you basically never run out of feats to trade around.

Actually, aside from the obvious alignment implications (it's a LN cohort of a LG character...I can't see DCFS being role play compliant), our setting may well rule out DCFS'ing, since we are currently outside the D&Dverse, and all of the relevant powers-that-be (and The Abyss itself) now work for our enemy, Tharizdun. I suppose I could have the DCFS happen back in the cohort's personal past, but then it's less useful.

DCFS is above my Personal Cheese Limit, as well. Right alongside the astral-seed enable suicide chaining to cherry pick monster traits and immunities.:smallwink:

More power points probably aren't worth class levels, but I'll look at Metamind anyway. Just buying ring of epic psionics ix gets the cohort 147pp for 810k gp, pretty affordable when the cohort has access to a psionic mythal that grants component-free, single round activation psionic true creation. If necessary, get multiple rings or add the effects of the ring to other items. Expensive, but only in a world where money is still a limiter.

EDIT: As for level 10 of constructor, does it conflict with Linked Power, which I was considering investing in anyway? I'll have to look at the exact wording, but I guess the point is that there is no real other benefit to the level aside from that ability (except that you pick up level 10 on the way to level 11-whatever in an epic progression, which often involves more bonus feats).

[Nettlekid]

DCFS is out of your cheese range, while infinite true creation is tolerable? Huh.

[Phelix-Mu]

DCFS is out of your cheese range, while infinite true creation is tolerable? Huh.

The DM said that mitigation of Epic Spellcasting (and by implication, Epic Manifesting) works that way. Epic Spellcasting as written is also beyond my personal cheese range, but it's not above the other party members (who are the ones with Epic Spellcasting), and so infinite money is already a thing.

DCFS is just psychic reformation on moonshine steroids, and is way too convenient to use without considering the alignment implications, which hold great sway for this particular character. On an evil or amoral character, sure, I might be talked into it, but I don't usually run in campaigns that are this high-op anyway (the other DM has less system mastery and early on established an "If it's RAW, let's go with it" rubric...something I would never do).

In short, DCFS is nice, but kind of undesirable. I can do as well without resorting to that particular brand of op (and I do believe that I can), and the whole point of my character concept in this campaign was to intentionally restrain myself from my optimal operational parameters (druids) and use a poorly optimized character and try to still operate up to the campaign's power level (hence my horrendous monk16/wiz1/abjchamp5/swordsage1/shadowsunninja1/crusader1/mastereastwind2/psion2...:smalltongue:). If I were an epic spellcasting druid/wiz/arcane hierophant, I probably would have personally derailed the DM's plot at this point, or at least giving him the kind of headaches he doesn't deserve considering what a good job he's doing plot-wise.

So, everyone's tips are helpful, but I might intentionally not use all of them, or use them to best effect. I hope you can forgive me.:smallwink:

[Rubik]

As far as alignment goes, remember that the Dark Chaos spells are Chaotic, not Evil. Your fluff may say that the character objects to anything having to do with anything to do with the lower planes, and so that works for this character, but not even a paladin will fall for making use of the DCFS, even if he's the one who manages to cast the spells on himself.

I would suggest shaper 5/constructor 9/metamind 10/totemist 2/soul manifester 3, continuing soul manifester for the next 7 levels, followed by more shaper.

Alternately, shaper 5/constructor 9/shaper 6/metamind 10, followed by more shaper.

Use the Primary Contact feat from Cityscape to qualify for constructor early. Retrain or PsyRef out at the earliest convenience. Use Practiced Manifester to make up for ML deficiencies.

[TuggyNE]

As far as alignment goes, remember that the Dark Chaos spells are Chaotic, not Evil. Your fluff may say that the character objects to anything having to do with anything to do with the lower planes, and so that works for this character, but not even a paladin will fall for making use of the DCFS, even if he's the one who manages to cast the spells on himself.

Not immediately, at least; they may eventually affect his alignment to the point he becomes NG, at which point Ex-Paladin kicks in.

[Rubik]

Not immediately, at least; they may eventually affect his alignment to the point he becomes NG, at which point Ex-Paladin kicks in.There's really no point at which that occurs in the rules, though. It's all DM fiat, unfortunately, since there's nothing inherently unLawful about the effects of the spells themselves, other than the descriptor in there. And even the Abyssal Heritor feats aren't really Chaotic, for the most part, again, other than the descriptor.

[Phelix-Mu]

Thanks for the replies. Anyone else got any suggestions? Or knowledge of 3.5 epic progressions for the psionic prc (constructor in particular...found the 3.0 epic progression, ofc...*rolls eyes*).

[Rubik]

Thanks for the replies. Anyone else got any suggestions? Or knowledge of 3.5 epic progressions for the psionic prc (constructor in particular...found the 3.0 epic progression, ofc...*rolls eyes*).There is no epic progression, far as I know. Though the only things you could really expect to get out of it are more manifester levels and Boost Construct iterations. And resistances against dispelling, of course, but those are pretty useless.

Perhaps consider taking a second manifesting class and then PrC it? Crystal master, maybe? That way you get more powers known and more power points, as well as abilities which can affect your primary class progression. Alternately, take illithid savant and start devouring brains for the psionic class and racial abilities you want. That's a pretty epic PrC right there.

[edit] You could also go for a cerebremancer/mind mage build. Add a caster class then advance both manifesting and spellcasting for epic win?

[Phelix-Mu]

So, if I can swing Multipower, how does that interact with quickened astral construct? Now I am thinking metamind, if only because, out-of-combat, this kind of character could activate astral construct a pretty obscenely large number of times, and then have them last almost an hour.....

Quicken twice per round, normal full round casting, each summons four constructs. That's twelve astral constructs per round, or 120 constructs for the one minute of unlimited power points. I guess the ML is still limited, so all of the constructs couldn't be fully augmented.

Hehe, seems pretty cool.

[Rubik]

Hehe, seems pretty cool.Don't forget Temporal Acceleration, Linked Power (along with swift, move, and standard action powers to Link constructs to), Linked Synchronicity, the ability to create multiple constructs via constructor, and a psicrystal with White Raven Tactics.

[Phelix-Mu]

Don't forget Temporal Acceleration, Linked Power (along with swift, move, and standard action powers to Link constructs to), Linked Synchronicity, the ability to create multiple constructs via constructor, and a psicrystal with White Raven Tactics.

Ah, right. This gets complicated in a hurry. A few questions:

1.) Does Metamind improve psicrystals? Many prc explicitly name psicrystals as not advancing via additional manifester levels, but Metamind didn't say this.

2.) Psicrystal feats key off the master's total HD, or just HD in psionic classes?

3.) As the cohort is heavily crystal-themed, any other ways to pick up more/better psicrystals?

And, on a different tangent:
- Suppose this character also picked up ardent. The ardent ML for ardent powers known would be separate, right? I couldn't poach astral casting and some of those ardent tricks and then use my higher psion ML, right? My understanding is that the only overlap is that all of the pp combine into one pool.

[Rubik]

Ooh. This gives me ideas of some abuses to add to the Psionic Tricks Handbook. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177889) Thanks!


Ah, right. This gets complicated in a hurry. A few questions:Okay. Shoot. (Not literally.)


1.) Does Metamind improve psicrystals? Many prc explicitly name psicrystals as not advancing via additional manifester levels, but Metamind didn't say this.Metamind is a manifesting PrC, and is thus a psionic manifesting class. The special abilities of your psicrystal improve based on your levels in psionic classes. Of course, your psicrystal's HD, hp, and skills are all based on your character level (not your ECL, so LA doesn't count) and stats, so everything counts for those.


2.) Psicrystal feats key off the master's total HD, or just HD in psionic classes?Total HD, as mentioned above.


3.) As the cohort is heavily crystal-themed, any other ways to pick up more/better psicrystals?There're only two ways I know of to get additional actual psicrystals attached to you. The first is to manifest the Fission power on it followed by Astral Seed. Kill your psicrystal and it'll come back as two attached to you. The second is by manifesting fusion on another psionic character with a psicrystal, but don't Fusion your psicrystals together. Follow this with Astral Seed and kill yourself before Fusion ends. When you come back, both psicrystals should be yours. Beyond that, the psychic weapon master gives you a psicrystal sword which is similar to a psicrystal, but not exact.


And, on a different tangent:
- Suppose this character also picked up ardent. The ardent ML for ardent powers known would be separate, right? I couldn't poach astral casting and some of those ardent tricks and then use my higher psion ML, right? My understanding is that the only overlap is that all of the pp combine into one pool.Ardent would be entirely separate. In order for your ardent ML to equal your psion level, you'd have to take Practiced Manifester for it, then a PrC that advances your ardent manifesting and take Practiced Manifester for it, followed by a second PrC and a third iteration of Practiced Manifester for it, etc, etc, etc.

[Phelix-Mu]

Ardent would be entirely separate. In order for your ardent ML to equal your psion level, you'd have to take Practiced Manifester for it, then a PrC that advances your ardent manifesting and take Practiced Manifester for it, followed by a second PrC and a third iteration of Practiced Manifester for it, etc, etc, etc.

Wow, so you can stack Practiced Manifester like that? Is the wording different than Practiced Spellcaster, because I was pretty sure you could only apply it to ML from class that granted manifesting, which prc with "+1 level..." don't.

Alas, no matter how much I know about this game, there is RAW somewhere that tells me I'm some kind of noob that knows nothing.

[Rubik]

Wow, so you can stack Practiced Manifester like that? Is the wording different than Practiced Spellcaster, because I was pretty sure you could only apply it to ML from class that granted manifesting, which prc with "+1 level..." don't.The relevant text of the feat is such:

"Choose a manifesting class that you possess. The powers you manifest from that class are more powerful. Your manifester level for the chosen manifesting class increases by four."

That's it.


Alas, no matter how much I know about this game, there is RAW somewhere that tells me I'm some kind of noob that knows nothing.I'm still learning stuff, and I've been learning for a rather long time.

[Phelix-Mu]

Someone mentioned that Linked Power can be used repeatedly in one round to trigger a bunch of astral constructs going off the next round. I could use an example on how this works, particularly given the pp-cost of Linked Power and multiple iterations of astral construct. I also could use a move-action power, as this trick implies that there is one out there (and probably several).

[Rubik]

Someone mentioned that Linked Power can be used repeatedly in one round to trigger a bunch of astral constructs going off the next round. I could use an example on how this works, particularly given the pp-cost of Linked Power and multiple iterations of astral construct. I also could use a move-action power, as this trick implies that there is one out there (and probably several).That was me.

Okay, here's an example that will work nicely for your epic build. Let's say you've got a manifester level of 20 in there. Take Psionic Meditation, Psicrystal Affinity, Psicrystal Containment, Linked Power, the Grip of Iron and Hustle powers, the Synchronicity power (from CPsi), and Metapower (Linked Power/Synchronicity).

Pay close attention. It gets complicated.

Round 1:
A.) Spend 20 pp, your standard action, and your psionic focus manifesting Synchronicity Linked to a fully augmented Astral Construct (+17 pp for one 9th level construct, and +4 for two additional 9th level constructs, as per Enhanced Construction). Synchronicity costs 1 pp, and Astral Construct costs +21 pp (which is reduced by -2 due to Metapower, so it only actually costs +19 pp). Thus, the total cost of 20.
B.) Spend 20 pp, your readied standard action from Synchronicity from A, and your psicrystal's psionic focus to repeat step A. (thereby gaining another readied standard action)
C.) Use your move action to regain your psionic focus you spent on A.
D.) Spend 20 pp, your swift action, and the psionic focus you got back from C. to manifest Hustle Linked to a fully augmented Astral Construct (at +17 pp for a single level 9 construct). Since Hustle is 3 power points and you don't have Metapower for it, you can get one 9th level construct out of this.
E.) Use your move action gained from D. to regain your psionic focus.
F.) Use your readied standard action from step B. to repeat step A., thereby gaining another three level 9 constructs and another readied standard action.
G.) Use your readied standard action gained from F. to regain your psionic focus.
Round over
H.) Instantly spend your immediate action and 20 pp as soon as your round is over to manifest Grip of Iron (for +1 pp) Linked with a fully augmented Astral Construct (for +17 pp for one level 9 construct and an extra +2 pp for an extra construct via Enhanced Construction)

Round 2:
At the very start of your turn, you gain 12 level 9 astral constructs. Spend a bit of effort getting your psionic focuses back and you can do this every other round (and you gain a few constructs on the between rounds, if you want).

And this isn't counting manifester level boosters or cost reductions beyond Metapower.

[Phelix-Mu]

Hmm. So Linked Power ignores that astral construct has a 1 round casting time? Cause it kind of isn't specific, but normally if you manifested astral construct in the second round, it wouldn't arrive until the third round.

Contrast

Linked Power:

Manifesting a power altered by this feat means that you
must choose two powers—one you intend to manifest in this round, and one you
intend to manifest in the next round.

Use of "manifest" sounds like the process takes the normal amount of time...

Yet:

The
power that is manifested in this round is not altered in any way, nor is the linked power that goes off in the next round....

Which kind of makes it sound like it "goes off" in the second round.

I dunno. "Not altered in any way" seems to contrast with "you do not need to spend any actions...."

Anyway, I think I can probably do a bit better with Epic Psionic Focus and a mythal that grants both schism and hustle as prevalent abilities (constant on buffs). I believe the trick remains the same, plus the following:

1.) The psion and the psicrystal now have 3 psionic focuses between them.
2.) The psion has schism, which can be used to get another standard action for more linked stuff. The ML for the schism is a bit lower, but not really a big deal, as the mythal is created while using ML-op, so the ML schism operates at is quite high.
3.) The psion has an extra move action without having to use a swift action. Pick another swift power and link it, or just have a quickened astral construct.
4.) 1 and 2 should combine to get another iteration of synchronicity before one burns through all the psionic focuses. I've seen another trick that suggests a schism on the psicrystal can be used to allow it to focus itself, but I'm unclear if that works that way,.

I think I can pump ML up to around 35 or so, with Overchannel and Talented, perhaps. This might allow the character to get out one quickened 9th level construct in the same round as the rest of the above.

The only problem I can see for optimizing this is that one focus must be maintained in order to keep the extended duration from constructor. I suppose, with 3 focuses, I could just use your version plus the swift action and standard action from free schism and hustle, use the epic focus to maintain the long duration, and use the Font of Power thing from Metamind to loop this trick for 10 round outside of combat. If I can jam in Extend Power, then the constructs will last for over an hour.

[Phelix-Mu]

And here's my conclusion.


PSICRYSTAL CONTAINMENT
[PSIONIC]
....
Benefit: You can spend a full-round action attempting
to psionically focus your psicrystal (see the Concentration
skill description, page 37). At any time when you
need to expend your psionic focus, you can expend your
psicrystal’s psionic focus instead, as long as the crystal is
within 5 feet of you. Psionically focusing your psicrystal
works just like focusing yourself. The psicrystal cannot
focus itself—only the owner can spend the time to focus
the crystal.

So there is such a thing as "the psicrystal's psionic focus," and the feat lets you use it when you'd normally need to use your own.

So, Wild Talent for the psicrystal allows it to gain it's own psionic focus, which Psicrystal Containment lets you use like your own. Psionic Meditation for the psicrystal will allow it to regain it as a move action. Schism lets it regain it as a move action twice per round (once with the psicrystal's move action, once with the psicrystal's schism's standard action).

So, I need to iron out if psicrystal can be affected by schism, and how to best do this. Sounds like metamorphing psicrystal can schism, but maybe not in its normal form.

[Rubik]

Hmm. So Linked Power ignores that astral construct has a 1 round casting time? Cause it kind of isn't specific, but normally if you manifested astral construct in the second round, it wouldn't arrive until the third round.

Contrast

Linked Power:


Use of "manifest" sounds like the process takes the normal amount of time...

Yet:


Which kind of makes it sound like it "goes off" in the second round.

I dunno. "Not altered in any way" seems to contrast with "you do not need to spend any actions...."Any power you manifest "goes off" -- that is, activates -- once you've finished manifesting. Linked Power can be used to avoid lengthy manifesting times because it explicitly forces the secondary power to "go off" at the beginning of your next turn, whether it's Astral Construct or Psionic Genesis. Discounting that, the targeting issues, and being treated like an augmentation to the first power, it's treated the same as it otherwise would be.


Anyway, I think I can probably do a bit better with Epic Psionic Focus and a mythal that grants both schism and hustle as prevalent abilities (constant on buffs). I believe the trick remains the same, plus the following:

1.) The psion and the psicrystal now have 3 psionic focuses between them.
2.) The psion has schism, which can be used to get another standard action for more linked stuff. The ML for the schism is a bit lower, but not really a big deal, as the mythal is created while using ML-op, so the ML schism operates at is quite high.
3.) The psion has an extra move action without having to use a swift action. Pick another swift power and link it, or just have a quickened astral construct.
4.) 1 and 2 should combine to get another iteration of synchronicity before one burns through all the psionic focuses. I've seen another trick that suggests a schism on the psicrystal can be used to allow it to focus itself, but I'm unclear if that works that way.I guess that's a basic version, yeah.

But the part with the psicrystal focusing itself won't work. The psicrystal taking Hidden/Wild Talent does allow it to focus itself, but that's the psicrystal's personal focus, which isn't the same one as the one you get for Psicrystal Containment. That's your secondary focus, which is stored in your psicrystal, along with its focus, which only it can use.

Also, don't forget to use Metamorphosis to make your psicrystal vulnerable to Schism.

Then use all four minds (yours, your pet rock's, and both of your schisms) to fire laser beams of death using the Energy Conversion power. Charge it up via Energy Wall, if you want.


I think I can pump ML up to around 35 or so, with Overchannel and Talented, perhaps. This might allow the character to get out one quickened 9th level construct in the same round as the rest of the above.Quickening is a bit overrated. Linked is far more efficient, though that doesn't matter a whole lot if you're doing this with infinite power points. Still, you can get more constructs out of the deal via Enhanced Construction, and you can do so more than once per round without spending epic feats.


The only problem I can see for optimizing this is that one focus must be maintained in order to keep the extended duration from constructor. I suppose, with 3 focuses, I could just use your version plus the swift action and standard action from free schism and hustle, use the epic focus to maintain the long duration, and use the Font of Power thing from Metamind to loop this trick for 10 round outside of combat. If I can jam in Extend Power, then the constructs will last for over an hour.That is nice, yes. You could also get your psicrystal and your schisms to help, as well. Look at the psionic powers in Magic of Incarnum. Specifically, Soul Crystal. Note that anyone can use these things, at your manifester level. Use your minute per day to create as many of these as you can. Then find ways to get extra actions to pump these out whenever you need them, for relatively cheaply. I mean, a Twin Power'd, Linked Synchronicity is really cheap, and it gives you 4 standard actions which you can use to manifest powers. If you did take the personal construct ACF, you could be pumping out factory clones really quickly. Or you could manifest Metamorphosis on you and your psicrystal, then Fission to split you both into two each, then Schism, for 8 minds in total, all of which can use your Soul Crystals.

Etc etc etc etc etc.

[Rubik]

And here's my conclusion.

So there is such a thing as "the psicrystal's psionic focus," and the feat lets you use it when you'd normally need to use your own.Not quite. See my response above.


So, Wild Talent for the psicrystal allows it to gain it's own psionic focus, which Psicrystal Containment lets you use like your own.No.


Psionic Meditation for the psicrystal will allow it to regain it as a move action. Schism lets it regain it as a move action twice per round (once with the psicrystal's move action, once with the psicrystal's schism's standard action).Yes, but you still can't use the psicrystal's focus, because it's different than the focus you store in the psicrystal using Psicrystal Containment.


So, I need to iron out if psicrystal can be affected by schism, and how to best do this. Sounds like metamorphing psicrystal can schism, but maybe not in its normal form.Metamorphosis, yes. I'd suggest the Ability Rip spell, but that's Fort negates (meaning only during Metamorphosis), and it only works on Su abilities.

[Phelix-Mu]

At any time when you
need to expend your psionic focus, you can expend your
psicrystal’s psionic focus instead, as long as the crystal is
within 5 feet of you.

This seems pretty clear to me. If the psicrystal has a psionic focus, no matter where it came from, the master can use it for his or her own purposes. The limitation in the last line "the psicrystal cannot focus itself" is normally true, because a psicrystal lacks the things necessary to focus itself. Once it has Wild Talent, however, it can focus itself. I don't see that RAW shows that the one you put in it is any different than the one it makes itself, just like the one you take out of it isn't any different than the one you have yourself.

The first line of benefit also backs this up. It isn't your secondary focus, but that you spent an action focusing your psicrystal.

Maybe you can explain your position a bit more, if it's not too much trouble.

[Phelix-Mu]

Aaaaaand....ze bump!:smallwink:

[Rubik]

This seems pretty clear to me. If the psicrystal has a psionic focus, no matter where it came from, the master can use it for his or her own purposes. The limitation in the last line "the psicrystal cannot focus itself" is normally true, because a psicrystal lacks the things necessary to focus itself. Once it has Wild Talent, however, it can focus itself. I don't see that RAW shows that the one you put in it is any different than the one it makes itself, just like the one you take out of it isn't any different than the one you have yourself.

The first line of benefit also backs this up. It isn't your secondary focus, but that you spent an action focusing your psicrystal.

Maybe you can explain your position a bit more, if it's not too much trouble.If your DM allows it, then great. But I have yet to have a DM that would go for it, so it's best to plan for it NOT working.

At least that way you'll get an extra focus that your psicrystal can use, rather than having to share one.

[Phelix-Mu]

I seem to remember that there was a trick in the Psionic Tricks Handbook on this forum (can't recall if that was the exact name) that relied on something like what I just talked about. Maybe I didn't understand the trick fully, though.

In any case, psionic mythal plus lots of long-lasting high-level constructs promises to be pretty unhinged. I think right off the bat I got them DR 10/- and like +30 to AC from a couple constant effect buffs. Not to mention the mythal's schism and hustle will affect my main character and the other party members, granting even more action economy.

Finally, the shaper's thrall, a 17th level telepath, will provide on-demand retraining and ensure that my epic monk (who currently has two level of psion and will be heading for cerebremancer) can have any power she wishes of any level she can manifest. Hurray psychic chirurgery!:smallbiggrin:

[Phelix-Mu]

A little bump for the weekend crowd. I am trying to pull together the npc for tomorrow (Sunday) afternoon, but I have found this discussion quite enlightening. Thanks for the posts and feel free to add more.

In particular, I'd be interested in anyone that has experience picking epic feats from ELH for psionics, under the rule that there is a psionics-flavored feat for all of the ones for spellcasters. Or any experience with epic psionics in general.

[Phelix-Mu]

Wow, so Twinned synchronicity Linked to Extended astral construct is a pretty powerful combo when used during Font of Power. I'm looking, and it seems like there is no practical limit to the amount of constructs that I can get, as the synchronicity looping is compounding, allowing me to get back all of my focuses and still have 2 standard actions remaining.

By taking Epic Psionic Focus twice and Improved Metapsionics, I'm getting an iteration similar to Rubik's, except it looks like I can squeeze out 32 constructs and have actions left to reload my focuses and still come out with +2 standard actions. Looks like infinite iteration is possible, as the first step only uses one standard action to get off the first twinned synchronicity.

Whacky.:smallcool:

[Rubik]

You need to find ways to boost your constructs further. Have you considered the mob template, from the DMG II?

Also, coat the outside of an enveloping pit with quintessence after storing a ton of flying constructs in it, then open it when you need them.

[Phelix-Mu]

You need to find ways to boost your constructs further. Have you considered the mob template, from the DMG II?

Also, coat the outside of an enveloping pit with quintessence after storing a ton of flying constructs in it, then open it when you need them.

My cohort has developed several demiplanes accessible through portals of crystal shrunken with psionic shrink item. One of these demiplanes is flooded with quintessence in various chambers, several of which are full of various types of constructs necessary from time to time.

I have a couple epic powers that summon stronger versions of astral construct, and one that makes a gundam-like monstrosity. That mob template is interesting, but I'm not sure the DM will let me apply it. As the campaign is heavily plot based, I don't envision rolling for the constructs' combat rounds. Rather, "My cohort unleashes an infinitely large mob of huge constructs" will be some nice plot-armour for the kind of large-scale battles that the DM likes to put us in as cutscenes. Instead of us fighting a losing battle against endless hordes of enemies, it will be more of an even battle.

The enemies are largely demons with guns, too, so the effectiveness of the average level 9 construct won't be great.

Any other tips would be appreciated, though.