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Ashtagon
2013-07-10, 03:20 AM
Has anyone ever tried to implement one (or more) of the magic systems used in gurps as a replacement for conventional vancian magic?

Wintermut3
2013-07-10, 11:49 PM
The main issue is a conflict of power levels. GURPS mages take a LONG time to learn anything combat-useful (some people would argue useful for anything)

A level zero spell (prestidigitation) can mimic the effects of the first, oh, 20 or so character points of spells.

It takes about 30 character points to be able to toss a proper fireball, which is... unimpressive to say the least (does less damage than a sword in damage/round terms), and you will NEVER cast more than a handful of spells a day.

Now consider that's 1/3rd of what a normal starting character GETS and with that many points a fighter could have maneuvers, support skills and a weapon skill so high they literally cannot miss an average person... magic is not really worth it in GURPS.

I haven't ever attempted to put GURPS spells in D20 terms because frankly they're all there and more. GURPS doesn't have anything that isn't "standard fantasy fare".

I have, however, done the reverse, and it worked rather well. GURPS just needed those low-end cheap combat spells and a huge change to casting times (three turns to build a 3d6 fireball is silly, when a fighter can do more every turn without burning a consumable resource like Mana).


The only GURPS magic system I find remotely interesting is the spell engines at low tech levels system from Grimoire, where you can use mechanical energy from a water wheel or windmill to cast spells like Grow Plant or even have a castle with an engine that can cast Mend on its own walls.

Ashtagon
2013-07-11, 12:25 AM
I think you've been calibrating your scales wrong in that case.

Sure, maybe a gurps fireball takes three gurps rounds to cast. So what. A gurps round is one second, and a d20 round is six seconds. So three gurps rounds is really more like a standard action casting time.

And so what if it takes 30 CP to be a decent fireball thrower. A full-on 20th level d20 character is probably in the realm of 500-1000 CP in gurps terms.

Its true that gurps magic is deliberately not about damage-dealing (reflecting the traditional gurps focus on problem solving over splitting skulls). But its the utility aspect of magic that I find far more interesting anyway.

I'm probably looking for something that lands around T3-4.

Wintermut3
2013-07-11, 12:39 AM
I think you've been calibrating your scales wrong in that case.

Sure, maybe a gurps fireball takes three gurps rounds to cast. So what. A gurps round is one second, and a d20 round is six seconds. So three gurps rounds is really more like a standard action casting time.

And so what if it takes 30 CP to be a decent fireball thrower. A full-on 20th level d20 character is probably in the realm of 500-1000 CP in gurps terms.

Its true that gurps magic is deliberately not about damage-dealing (reflecting the traditional gurps focus on problem solving over splitting skulls). But its the utility aspect of magic that I find far more interesting anyway.

I'm probably looking for something that lands around T3-4.

If you're looking to make a more thoughtful D20 setting where magic users aren't all high-tier classes, I would still be delicate around the fact that GURPS magic users are the exact opposite of D20 ones (have to specialize highly to be useful, are most powerful right out of the gate, are only in the limelight in a few narrow situations where they tailor their points). Other classes would probably need some regulation to avoid "the sword is your skill list" problem, or you would have to run adventures that always have a lynchpin plot point that revolves around the few spells the wizard knows so he doesn't feel useless.


Of all the GURPS magic systems, I think the second-most interesting though is the item system. Though it makes even moderately-advanced things fiendishly expensive and tends to break the economy, it offers some interesting views on where magic items come from.

My favorites are "deed-based" coupled with "creation as deed"-- it tends to result in magic items that are universally flavorful rather than "oh ho hum another +3 longsword"