Did I just make a big mistake?

[AntiTrust]

I was reading some of the other forum posts about houserules and one horror story involved giving players max hp at every level.

I'm running a small group of 3 people and have instituted that rule because of their group size and their team composition (1 sword and board fighter, 1 two-weapon fighter, and 1 warlock).

I've also instituted the tiered point buy system for them.

They are level 3-4 and I'm wondering if this rule is going to bite me in the ass sometime as they level?

[Doxkid]

Depends on how optimized they are/become. Probably not though.

[Drachasor]

Two Fighters and a Warlock? You are fine.

[eggynack]

It should be fine. This group seems quite low optimization, and the limited number of players means that an increased HP pool is likely a good thing. I can't really see this becoming a problem.

[KillianHawkeye]

I ran a group all the way from level 4 to around level 13-14 or so using the "Full HP every level" house rule. I can say that I had a pretty hard time presenting a credible threat to them, although there weren't very many real issues with game balance caused by it. Mainly I had to beef up the HP of any important enemies to match or they would go down too quickly.

The one major issue I ran into was when I put an NPC Sorcerer against the party who liked to use Power Word spells (he had some fancy prestige class from Dragon Magic or Races of the Dragon and everything). Unfortunately, the Power Word line of spells are limited by the target's hit points, so spells that probably should have worked against half the party didn't even work against the Wizard and Psion because they had full HP instead of something closer to average. That was kind of a sad day for me.

[AntiTrust]

I ran a group all the way from level 4 to around level 13-14 or so using the "Full HP every level" house rule. I can say that I had a pretty hard time presenting a credible threat to them, although there weren't very many real issues with game balance caused by it. Mainly I had to beef up the HP of any important enemies to match or they would go down too quickly.

The one major issue I ran into was when I put an NPC Sorcerer against the party who liked to use Power Word spells (he had some fancy prestige class from Dragon Magic or Races of the Dragon and everything). Unfortunately, the Power Word line of spells are limited by the target's hit points, so spells that probably should have worked against half the party didn't even work against the Wizard and Psion because they had full HP instead of something closer to average. That was kind of a sad day for me.

Do you remember about where in their levels you made the decision to buff up the monsters HP?

[Drachasor]

I ran a group all the way from level 4 to around level 13-14 or so using the "Full HP every level" house rule. I can say that I had a pretty hard time presenting a credible threat to them, although there weren't very many real issues with game balance caused by it. Mainly I had to beef up the HP of any important enemies to match or they would go down too quickly.

What classes?


The one major issue I ran into was when I put an NPC Sorcerer against the party who liked to use Power Word spells (he had some fancy prestige class from Dragon Magic or Races of the Dragon and everything). Unfortunately, the Power Word line of spells are limited by the target's hit points, so spells that probably should have worked against half the party didn't even work against the Wizard and Psion because they had full HP instead of something closer to average. That was kind of a sad day for me.

Power Word spells? They really aren't worth it. I'd blame that on the concept more than anything. Still, I doubt you had a 3-man party of Teir 4-5 classes.

[KillianHawkeye]

Do you remember about where in their levels you made the decision to buff up the monsters HP?

Hmm.... it was a few years ago. Lemme see....

I think that I made the decision right away to give unique "Boss" NPCs full hp to match the PCs, on account of them being equally special. It really wasn't something I implemented as a reaction since I could see the need ahead of time. I was running Red Hand of Doom, so there were plenty of names on the Important Boss NPC list. I have to say it worked pretty well, although the non-buffed enemies frequently stood little chance of attaining victory.

As for giving additional HP above and beyond what the monster should ever have had? I only did that for the Aspect of Tiamat at the end of the adventure, and really only because we run with a large group of 8-10 PCs and she was a solo monster who would have gone down WAAAAY to quickly otherwise. That really doesn't have anything to do with how many HP the PCs had but how much harm they could do when focus firing on a single target though.




What classes?

Power Word spells? They really aren't worth it. I'd blame that on the concept more than anything. Still, I doubt you had a 3-man party of Teir 4-5 classes.

Hmm... there was a Wizard, a Psion, a Cleric, a Rogue, a Swashbuckler, a Monk/Wizard, a Barbarian, and a Fighter focused on archery. Later added a Druid, a Ranger/Paladin, a Ninja, and a Dragonfire Adept. Like I said, a pretty large party. Still, my group was not very good at optimization back then.

Personally, I think the Power Word spells (particularly the non-Core ones) can be pretty strong if you don't get blocked by the target's HP limitation. Regardless, it is an issue to note when giving PCs full hit points at every level.

[Teacup]

There's nothing automatically wrong with houserules for more hit points. I've played a couple games where max HP was given for the first three levels, rolling after that (one game was roll twice and take the better; the other was roll once with the option to re-roll before seeing the result of the second roll). It helps the tough guys feel like tough guys earlier on, and the low HP characters are a little less likely to go down in a way that many do not find very fun.

It's a matter of personal preference. Still, you don't have to take it back if you're concerned. Just say that they have to start rolling after a certain level.

[EyethatBinds]

I run max HP at every level for the PCs, but that's because they're just too damn flimsy without it. Even when I do this they used to have one or two fatalities every third or fourth session until I dumbed down my tactics and softened the dungeons a bit.

Max HP for the players just reduces the efficacy of damage spells, which somewhat lessens the power of spellcasters. Somewhat.

[KillianHawkeye]

I've played a couple games where max HP was given for the first three levels, rolling after that (one game was roll twice and take the better; the other was roll once with the option to re-roll before seeing the result of the second roll). It helps the tough guys feel like tough guys earlier on, and the low HP characters are a little less likely to go down in a way that many do not find very fun.

This is similar to what one of the other DMs in my group does, except he gives max HP for levels 1 to 3 and average HP afterwards (rounding to even on even levels and to odd on odd levels). I find that I like that system a lot better than just giving everybody full HP all the time.

[Mishkov]

It will be fine. You can have an ogre swing a club at them without worrying about them falling over randomly.

"Boss" encounters, I'd recommend to have max HP too. Also, status effects don't really change. Save or lose effects are less fun to fight against, but you can throw a few their way (or save-or-suck) if they're having too easy of a time. Your group is all tier 4/5 though, so I really wouldn't be worried about challenging them at all.

[Deadline]

*shrug* We've been doing the "all characters and monsters/NPCs have full hitpoints for their hit dice" for years now, and it hasn't been an issue. The PCs are a bit more resilient, but so are the enemies, and their resources tick down sufficiently as the encounters add up in the day. Honestly, we haven't really noticed any difference.

[killem2]

I do max HP at every 5th level/hd. works out pretty well.

[Krobar]

We do one less than the max. So someone with d8 hit dice gets 7+con bonus every level.

[Big Fau]

I was reading some of the other forum posts about houserules and one horror story involved giving players max hp at every level.

I'm running a small group of 3 people and have instituted that rule because of their group size and their team composition (1 sword and board fighter, 1 two-weapon fighter, and 1 warlock).

If it's any consolation to you, this is the exact kind of party that needs house rules like Max HP. With how little you've told us about them they look to be very low-op (possibly even low enough that they could be considered a half-tier lower than their classes would indicate). They have no reliable buffs (save the Warlock, and those are limited in versatility and targets), very little Battlefield Control (the Warlock, and only with select invocations and UMD), and a lot of reliance on subpar melee tactics (S&B and TWFing are considered two of the worst routes a Fighter can go, as those styles are better covered by other classes).

If you've made a mistake, then IMO it was a happy one.

[Squirrel_Dude]

It shouldn't hurt you anymore than your player's randomly rolling well on their health would be. That is to say, not much. If they start performing far and above how you would expect them to, you can always give a slight boost to enemy performance.

[Tvtyrant]

I wouldn't worry about it. The problems as I read them in that other campaign were not so much the HP rules as the interactions between the DM and the player. In your case the HP increase will let your characters live longer, which is good because you lack healing and control abilities.

In my current group I instituted a "con mod x HD healing after each battle" to deal with our lack of a healer/UMD character with a wand. Our level 2 Goliath Fighter/Barbarian with his 25 HP lost all but 2 to crossbow bolts in the first big encounter, while no one else got hit. 8 HP back let him keep playing for the day, but it would still take a few days to heal back to normal health.

[Perseus]

Do note that HP damage is the worse way to challenge a group.

Grease, obscuring mist, and skirmisher tactics doing 1 HP damage each can scare the crap out of a group more than doing 900 damage. And be a better challenge.

Edit: Scare not scar...

[DrDeth]

I suggest you just say "max HP until level 5" then let them roll. This is actually a very good idea at lower levels.

[ArcturusV]

The only real thing I'd watch out for with that house rule is eventually if any of your characters become some form of Undead. One of the inherent balances of an Undead is that, sure, all your Hit Dice become d12, but you also have no Con score, meaning your average HP per level is going to be 6.5. So despite the large hit dice they tend to be somewhat fragile in truth, comparable to rogues and the like.

It might not be worth thinking about too terribly much. But it's a consideration. Undead come with enough immunities and such that it might be an important balancing factor against becoming a Necropolitan, etc, depending on how your campaign is run.

[ericgrau]

I was reading some of the other forum posts about houserules and one horror story involved giving players max hp at every level.

I'm running a small group of 3 people and have instituted that rule because of their group size and their team composition (1 sword and board fighter, 1 two-weapon fighter, and 1 warlock).

I've also instituted the tiered point buy system for them.

They are level 3-4 and I'm wondering if this rule is going to bite me in the ass sometime as they level?
The problem was more surprise extreme arbitrary house rules being constantly made on the fly. As long as you're public about your house rules before characters are built and don't make 1,000 of them, house rules are fine.

As for the rule itself, I would have thought that large groups would benefit from max hp more. Relative to each individual the monsters are stronger and have a higher chance of one shotting them. Relative to a small group the monsters are weaker. I don't think the rule is necessary. If anything non-hp insta-kills/disables have a much greater effect against smaller groups (even when a rare fluke) and those should be addressed instead. Someone rolls a 1 first round on what should have been an easy save, the party is at 2/3 strength, then suddenly TPK.

HP does play a greater roll than kills/disables at low levels, but by level 3-4 it's not so bad. Without a healer the extra hp at low levels is nice too. It could be good to use the rule temporarily as DrDeth suggested.

It won't burn the campaign to ashes either way though.

[Eldonauran]

The only real thing I'd watch out for with that house rule is eventually if any of your characters become some form of Undead. One of the inherent balances of an Undead is that, sure, all your Hit Dice become d12, but you also have no Con score, meaning your average HP per level is going to be 6.5. So despite the large hit dice they tend to be somewhat fragile in truth, comparable to rogues and the like.

It might not be worth thinking about too terribly much. But it's a consideration. Undead come with enough immunities and such that it might be an important balancing factor against becoming a Necropolitan, etc, depending on how your campaign is run.

I usually adopt PF undead rules when it comes to HP. d8 HD and bonus HP based on Cha mod. It works well.