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Deathkeeper
2013-07-10, 08:09 AM
So, I'm in a summer campaign. The party is currently in an expedition to the Underground region of Golarion, since I forget what PF calls it (which really tells you how much plot has happened, hasn't it?). We're a level 7 Ninja, Alchemist (that's me), and a Paladin since our Cleric left. The paladin is a first-time player, with terrible priorities and an awful build, but I only lightly make fun of him for that (I admit to teasing him about a paladin without any knowledge: religion).
Anyway, we're all really good friends but I think the DM really slapped our Pally in the face during our last level up. He, mostly for flavor of the Awesome Holy Leader Guy along with the perfectly accurate observation that we're a small party and lackeys help, asked for Leadership. I warned them both that it can be considered very OP sometimes. It was approved anyway. Now, here's the problem.
The GM made the common and reasonable ruling that followers must be gained; they don't just appear like a familiar or animal companion. So of course he draws a cohort from the npc's of the expedition. Who he previously said were mostly levels 2-5. The Pally explicitly took the feat expecting to be able to ask for a Wizard, Sorc, or Bard since we have little support and magic. So what does he get? He gets "Not only am I picking your cohort without any input whatsoever, she will be a level one this. (https://sites.google.com/site/pathfinderogc/classes/base-classes/magus/archetypes/paizo---magus-archetypes/kapenia-dancer)" Heck, I can ignore how terrible this class archetype is if the NPC was unique and flavorful, but instead he just pulled this girl out of the 45 npc's who had never been mentioned before and he still has never made talk. Even though the Pally pumped Cha instead of physical scores and therefore can have a level 7 cohort AND is generally liked by the npc's. And this is a problem, because she WILL die, being a low level in a high combat campaign. And since the Player has previously refused to use his special mount for fear of it dying he's never going to actually take his followers anywhere, thus wasting the feat.

The point to all this is:
How do you folks normally make Leadership work when it's allowed?

Jormengand
2013-07-10, 11:25 AM
I just rule that you can have cohort, but no followers. Or, your followers aren't actually going to follow you around and fight - if you own a shop, they might help you run it while you're away, for example.

Squirrel_Dude
2013-07-10, 12:29 PM
1. In Pathfinder the Underdark/the place where Drow and Aboleths live is called "The Darklands"

When leadership is allowed, I've never seen it work. The one time I've seen the feat allowed, the cohort didn't get involved in combat until the very last combat. Otherwise the cohort stayed behind and ran the fort/base for us while we were gone.

In our case, the DM also gave us our choice of a couple of prebuilt characters that we were allowed to interview and choose if we so desired. I think we ended up going with a Cleric of Sarenrae (healing and fire domains, I think) because we didn't have a divine caster.

NightbringerGGZ
2013-07-10, 04:25 PM
1) Leadership is only allowed with small groups or if a player leaves the game. The intent is to make sure an important role gets filled, not significantly increase the player's power.
2) Ignore the Leadership score rules.
3) Ignore the followers mechanic.
4) Cohorts are recruited. This involves varying degrees of RP and might take a bit of time, depending on how the story goes. If you plan on taking Leadership at some point (or the Squire Feat) make sure the GM knows well in advance.
5) The player taking Leadership and the GM work together on the class and build of the cohort. GM has final approval but so long as your build isn't too cheesy not much is argued about.
6) The player gets to use the Cohort in combat in most cases. GM might take control if the cohort is important to the plot. These cases will be discussed in advance.
7) Bonus points if you come up with a really cool or flavorful idea.

Squirrel_Dude
2013-07-10, 05:03 PM
I should also add that we were allowed to have followers but we weren't allowed to use them or build them for combat. More because it would bog combat down more than it would break anything. They're a bunch of level 1 characters, they're just going to die and decrease our leadership score, after all.

Baroncognito
2013-07-10, 05:07 PM
I'm in a Rise of the Runelords game, a party of three players. We're a fairly low optimization party. We have two cohorts.

The "bard" has an Oracle of Lore cohort that participates in combat. She provides summoned monsters and other things to help give the bard a flanking bonus so he can do sneak attack damage. She's also got the second best AC in the party.

The natural weapons ranger has a Wizard cohort that doesn't even travel with the group. She stays at the base and turns money into useful items.

We have followers but they don't travel with us. They stay in Magnamar and Sandpoint. Perhaps there's one in Turtleback(?).