Help building my first Psionic

[DoppelgangerMan]

Thank you to any and all who take the time to read this post, and especially those who reply.

I have only recently gotten into D&D and my DM is using 3.5 as the basis of his campaign so he allowed me to choose any class I wanted, we did do a short campaign to get me into the feel of it, but still its only been a few weeks so please understand my noobness.

I was looking to create a Psion class character. Probably a telepath.
I was also looking to ask is it possible to later learn a new discipline such as the Psychokinesis discipline later on.

I think out of the races I have seen the Synads and the Kalasthar races seem the best, but the Synad's would be fun for RP purposes.

The campaign as best as I know will start at lvl 1, its a homebrew campaign but I double its gonna be very difficult, he tends to take from Mods and just work around the stuff to fit his idea better.

How would I go about this, the Psionic Power Points for example seem to be insanely important. I have the books Complete Psionics, Expanded Psionic Handbook, and the Races of Eberron books as well as a few others so I can try to look up anything you might suggest.

[DoppelgangerMan]

I just saw a Subclass of the Psion called the Erudite in the complete psionic book. I think this one looks interesting. So if people could help me work with that class and either the Kalasthar or Synad races (Or maybe another good psionic race I missed)

[Eldest]

Ok, first, rule number one: you cannot augment a power to cost more PP than your manifester level. Always remember that.

Now, actual bit, Psions are fun. I don't have any experience with Etrudites, so can't help you there. But you can learn powers that aren't part of your discipline, so long as they are not on the other discipline's restricted list. So Thicken Skin is an Egoist 1 power, so you can't learn that if you aren't an Egoist. But you can learn Hammer, which is Psychometabolism, but is on the Psion/Wilder list. When you specialize in a discipline, you just get access to that discipline's restricted list. It doesn't bar any of the general powers from your use.

[DoppelgangerMan]

Well the idea I wanted was kinda a mix of Telepathic and Psychokinetic powers using telepathy and mind control and reading powers, and still manipulating matter and dealing damage via the telekinetic attacks.

Erudite can learn from virtually any list except the restricted lists unless from a very specific learning method that costs XP to learn. It is on 153pg of the Complete Psionics book if you wanna see it.

EDIt: the DM has given me the scores 18,18,16,16,14,14

[Yora]

I'd say stay away from Erudite. That class is about the biggest can of worms in the whole game. Esepecially when you're new to the game, stick with a simple telepath psion.

A psion can not learn another discipline, but he can take the Expanded Knowledge feat which allows him to learn a power that is exclusive to other disciplines or classes. If you only want two or three psychokinesis powers that are not on the standard psion power list, this is a good way to do it.

If the power is a psychokinesis power (or any discipline for that matter) that appears on the standard psion/wilder list, then every psion can learn it. These powers are not exclusive to the specialist psions of that discipline. And for psychokinesis, there's quite a lot of them than you have free access to.

[DoppelgangerMan]

Thanks for the advice Yora.

I wonder, could you multiclass back into Psion and take it? I mean if you treated it as a different class like Psion Telepath 6/ Psion Kineticist 2?

[Psyren]

Thanks for the advice Yora.

I wonder, could you multiclass back into Psion and take it? I mean if you treated it as a different class like Psion Telepath 6/ Psion Kineticist 2?

You cannot do that any more than a wizard can multiclass between Evoker and Necromancer. Psions only get to choose a discipline once.

There is no need to be a Kineticist if you want some blasting power - the basic psion list has plenty on its own. For example Energy Ray, Push and Stun are all basic psion powers. There are even metacreativity blasts there like Crystal Shard or Swarm of Crystals.

Your choice of discipline should be driven instead by the unique powers on that list. Telepath has some very good ones (at least at low-mid levels.) If you anticipate the game going to high levels where mind-affecting effects are easier to resist, it loses a little strength.

[Humble Master]

I actually built a Telepath recently and he turned out pretty cool. You get to basically screw around with everybody. My advice would be to pick up Overchannel and Talented so that you can pump up the Manifester Level of your 3rd level and lower powers. Stay away from Psionic Talent, it may seem good at first level but it is very pointless at higher levels. Metapower from Complete Psionic is good for reducing the cost of Metapsionics.

Edit: Also, the only way to learn powers that are from other disciplines is Expanded Knowledge.

[Fouredged Sword]

Ok, some more thoughts for you to consider.

A psicrystal is really nice. It does all kinds of cool stuff. It is a good idea to get one.

3.5 has some web expansions that are really nice for psions.

Crystal master (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625d) is a really good one.

All it takes to get in are a few skill points and some feats that are good on their own.

It offers a lot of cool abilities that are hard to get like untyped stat increases, Power resistance, DR/-, and insight bonuses to saves and AC.

[Spuddles]

Telepath is pretty strong. Things that are resistant or immune to mind control usually aren't immune to being smashed by your minions :smallcool:

Schism is a really great power, and when paired with Practiced Manifester (Complete Psionic), lets you really abuse the action economy.

I would actually recommend against erudite just to how goddamn limiting Unique Powers per day are. That, and finding more powers known. Power stones, etc., aren't in most published modules, due to psionics being less common, and they're usually not on loot tables, unlike scrolls, which show up rather frequently.

Outside that, however, erudites are really great. One way to get them on parity with a wizard, with regards to finding new spells/powers, is to use the spells-to-powers erudite (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a).

You can also pick up powers on discipline lists with the Expanded Knowledge feat. Energy Missile is a nice targeted blasting spell with save DCs and damage that scale very efficiently. Other than that, as Psyren points out, the general psion list should get you plenty of blasting. Energy Ray, Energy Stun, and the Crystal spells are all great. Actually, I take that back. Energy Current + Solicit Psicrystal can do HUGE amounts of damage. At level 11, you can manifest energy current for 11d6+11, give an energy current to your psicrystal for 11d6+11, and have your schism also manifest one for 9d6+9. That's 31d6+31 damage per round to a primary target and half that to a secondary target.

I would pick psionic charm as your only telepathy spell until you get to psionic dominate & schism at 7th level (4th level powers).

For your 3rd level powers, dispel psionics (also works on magic), touchsight, and time hop are all really good. Dispel Psionics to get rid of magic, touchsight lets you see through just about every possible way a creature can hide, and time hop is great vs. enemies, objects, all kinds of stuff.

Telekinetic Thrust can be a great source of throwing around boulders for damage. Fairly efficient damage, for what it costs in power points.

Energy Stun and Feat Leech are really good second level powers. Feat Leech is good to use on your psicrystal- bower its feats!

Control Flames, Control Light (if you have darkvision/touchsight), Energy Ray, and Crystal Shard are my favorite first level powers. Control Flames lets you go all firestarter, control light is the only way to make non-magical darkness with magic, as far as I know. Energy Ray and Crystal Shard are both great ways to deal damage. Energy Ray can be used to melt Fire Giants or torch Frost Giants, while your Crystal Shard can be used on things like golems. I am also a really big fan of Matter Agitation, especially at low levels. Spend 1 power point and just burn things to death with your mind.

Mind Thrust is cool, and making things heads explode (http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/archive/b/b5/20100108063328!Exploding-head.gif) is a classic hallmark of psionics. But it's will negates, and mind affecting. Low marks for optimization, but I think style points makes up for it.

Grease is lame, thematically (lets get slippery and lubed up guys!), but is honestly one of the best effects in the game. You can use it to lock down just about any monster that cannot fly; those that do fly, you can disarm; and if someone is being grappled, you can add huge bonuses to them getting out of the grapple.

Vigor & Intertial Armor are really terrific defensive spells. Inertial Armor scales with power point investment. Vigor can be made very useful if you do the Share Pain combo with your psicrystal- for every power point you spend, you and your psicrystal both gain 5 temporary HP. Then with share pain, half your damage goes to your psicrystal. This effectively gives you 10 extra hp per level!

I am also a really big fan of synesthete. It lasts a long time (10min/level), and gives you a pretty unique ability. It's relatively limited in scope, though.

[Maginomicon]

If you're going to play an Erudite, I strongly recommend you suggest the following house rule to your DM, at the very least the part that clarifies what exactly a "unique power" is:


The erudite was updated in errata to where instead of having a limit on unique powers per level per day, it was changed to unique powers per day period, which all but cripples the erudite class. For that reason and others, certain very specific things should not count against that unique powers per day limit.

Realize that according to RAW for all of psionics, all of the power points spent on a power (both for the initial manifesting cost and the augmentation cost) has to all come from the same source. The new general rule for unique powers per day is this:


If and only if the erudite uses his own personal power points in the initial manifesting cost of manifesting a power and that power is only accessible from his erudite power list does it count against his unique powers per day limit.

This parallels the single-source rule mentioned above and how spell slots between different spellcasting classes don’t overlap (the unique powers per day limitation is similar in basic concept to spell slots).

The following are descriptions of a few things this general rule excludes:

Effects which don’t in-fact draw from his erudite abilities don’t count towards an erudite’s unique powers per day limit. This also includes powers accessed through the “Manifest an Unknown Power from Another’s Powers Known” rules.

Powers that are manifested from a separate power point pool (such as a cognizance crystal) and powers which don’t draw from a power point pool at all (such as spell-to-power cantrips) don’t count towards an erudite’s unique powers per day limit.

An erudite that takes levels in the Metamind prestige class does not apply new powers used with the “Free Manifesting” ability as counting towards an erudite’s unique powers per day limit (just like it wouldn’t be the case if he also had levels in Wilder and the power known was from that list), as their initial manifesting cost is “free”. Likewise, powers accessed during a “Font of Power” don’t count towards an erudite’s unique powers per day limit (since the power points from Font of Power come from an infinite but separate supply of power points).

[Perseus]

Good luck with your PC.

My first psionic character was something like..

Human Trollblooded Nomad Psion

Ended up doing the share pain trick with my psicrystal just for more kicks and giggles.

[DoppelgangerMan]

Ok so here is what I have so far
Str: 14
Dex: 16
Con: 18
Int: 18
Wis: 14
Cha: 16
18,18,16,16,14,14

Race: Synad
Psionic - Telepath Discipline
Power Points per day at lvl 1: 5
Powers known at lvl 1: 3
Minimum Power Level Known: 1rst

Powers: Energy Ray; Control Light, Inertial Armor - 1rst lvl

Feats: Telepathic discipline, [Need help with feats for my 1 starting feat, and the bonus one I get for being a psion)

[Fouredged Sword]

Well, Psicrystal is a good feat. It gives you a crystaline familiar who can help you out.

Overchannel and Talented will let you boost your manifester level cheaply for quite some time without cost.

[Spuddles]

I would recommend a psicrystal and overchannel, or maybe overchannel and talented. I would hold off on talented until 3rd level, though, because you won't really have the pp to use with overchannel and overchannel tends to work best on even manifester levels than off. For instance, the DC of many things goes up when you spend 2 power points.

A psicrystal is also a very useful scout, as it doesn't run the risk of causing you xp loss if it happens to get broken.

[DoppelgangerMan]

Are powers treated as affected by the ASF%?

I don't think my guy is gonna be wearing much armor, maybe leather but I am not sure.

So I was thinking Psycrystal and Either Overchannel or Psychic Weapon that +2d6 sounds tempting considering my only 5 Psionic points per day.

i am also having him use a Quarter Staff

[Fouredged Sword]

Your powers ignore ASF%.

You ARE penalized for not having proficiency though, but if you have no powers that require attack rolls, you are good.

A few psion build avoid all powers with attack rolls, and run around in full plate and tower shields despite the lack of prof.

I would recommend psionic shot over psionic weapon as you can attach that 2d6 damage to your energy ray or a light crossbow, and you probably want to stay out of melee. Point blank shot isn't bad ether.

[Spuddles]

Walking up to something with d4 HD and poor BAB is generally a bad idea. Combat is extremely deadly in D&D, especially at low level. You'll only have 8HP, which means you can get one shot by just about any weapon and a guy with 14 str.

Psionic Shot isn't terrible in conjunction with a ray of energy.

A light crossbow and a few flasks of alchemist acid/fire would be a much better investment than sinking a feat into melee combat, and keep you safer.

[DoppelgangerMan]

Psionic Shot huh? Sounds like that might work. But it says Point Blank Shot is the Prereq for it. So does Point Blank Shot apply to my Energy Ray as well?

I didn't see Psionic Shot but its the same thing but I guess works on my ranged abilities (Stupid Touch attack powers, but Psicrystal will be good for that later I hear)

Ok so basically take as many ranged things as I can.

[Fouredged Sword]

Yes, yes it does. +1 to hit and damage isn't bad at 1st level.

You can change it out later for other feats through psionic reformation when you get a little higher level.

[Psyren]

Your powers ignore ASF%.

You ARE penalized for not having proficiency though, but if you have no powers that require attack rolls, you are good.

Note that leather and hide actually have no penalties even if you're not proficient. So a psion has no problems wearing them.

[DoppelgangerMan]

Str: 14
Dex: 16
Con: 18
Int: 18
Wis: 14
Cha: 16
18,18,16,16,14,14

Race: Synad
Psionic - Telepath Discipline
Power Points per day at lvl 1: 5
Powers known at lvl 1: 3
Minimum Power Level Known: 1rst

Powers: Energy Ray; Control Light, Inertial Armor - 1rst lvl

Feats: Telepathic discipline, Point Blank Shot, Psicrystal Affinity

Weapons: Crossbow; Flasks of Alchemist Fire.

Sound about right?

[Perseus]

Str: 14
Dex: 16
Con: 18
Int: 18
Wis: 14
Cha: 16
18,18,16,16,14,14

Race: Synad
Psionic - Telepath Discipline
Power Points per day at lvl 1: 5
Powers known at lvl 1: 3
Minimum Power Level Known: 1rst

Powers: Energy Ray; Control Light, Inertial Armor - 1rst lvl

Feats: Telepathic discipline, Point Blank Shot, Psicrystal Affinity

Weapons: Crossbow; Flasks of Alchemist Fire.

Sound about right?

This may sound weird but I prefer the psionic version of shield more so than inertial armor.at least at lower levels.

Why? Well you can wear leather armor for +2 AC with no problems so you all the time AC would be 15. Then when you need a power cast, the shield one will boost your ac up near 19 or so.

Later to really boost your ac inertial armor will be needed but at low levels not so much.

Edit: Force Screen is the psionic version of shield.

[Fouredged Sword]

I would take psionic shot at first level if you are going to go for it. It will kill most level one threats one hit on a touch attack. Pick up your psicrystal at 3rd level when it can do a little more, like deliver touch powers.

[Psyren]

Sheesh, you got good rolls.

Yeah seems okay. I'm AFB and forget how many PP Synads get racially, be sure that's included in your total.

[Rubik]

Sheesh, you got good rolls.Actually, I believe it was a DM-granted array.

Still darned good, though.


Yeah seems okay. I'm AFB and forget how many PP Synads get racially, be sure that's included in your total.Three; one for each component of their threefold mind.

[Spuddles]

You might want to look through equipment- rope, climbing kit (should include hammer & pitons for route setting), rations, backpack, a couple daggers, empty flasks, some torches.

Can Synads see in the dark? If they don't have darkvision, you may want to reconsider Control Light as a power known. It's still good, but you might be better off with a different utility power. Grease doesn't really come online until around level 3 because of the rounds/level duration. Things that fall down in grease get a +4 to their AC vs ranged attacks. Rather, you take a -4 penalty vs. prone opponents.

[Psyren]

Actually, I believe it was a DM-granted array.

Still darned good, though.

Three; one for each component of their threefold mind.

In that case he should be starting with 7 PP:

2 base
2 for 18 Int
3 for Synad



Can Synads see in the dark?

Yes - they are aberrations, and lack the exception clause that Elans have.

[Perseus]

You might want to look through equipment- rope, climbing kit (should include hammer & pitons for route setting), rations, backpack, a couple daggers, empty flasks, some torches.

Can Synads see in the dark? If they don't have darkvision, you may want to reconsider Control Light as a power known. It's still good, but you might be better off with a different utility power. Grease doesn't really come online until around level 3 because of the rounds/level duration. Things that fall down in grease get a +4 to their AC vs ranged attacks. Rather, you take a -4 penalty vs. prone opponents.

Control Power? How about Entangling Ectoplasm?

[Rubik]

Control Power? How about Entangling Ectoplasm?That's better than Psionic Grease in a few ways, especially at early levels, but at later levels (say, after about level 3) I'd have to say that Psionic Grease wins by a fair margin. Grease can completely shut down one or more enemies, while Entangling Ectoplasm gives a few fairly minor penalties in the grand scheme of things. Grease is easier to avoid but grants much larger penalties -- and can negate even epic level threats.

[DoppelgangerMan]

It was DM-granted array so I could have good scores while still learning to play out this new-to-me class. And I don't think he has much in the noob lol

So Take both Point Blank Shot and Psionic Shot?
Synad gets a bonus of 3 at lvl 1 for each personality
Synad has 60' Darkvision

So switch out inertial armor for Force Screen?
inertial armor grants +4 and for Augment takes 2 PP for a +1 AC Bonus
Force Screen grants +4 and for Augment needs 4 PP for a +1 Shield Bonus/
Both grant against Incorporeal touch attacks.

[Psyren]

Control Power? How about Entangling Ectoplasm?

Control Light and EE are both good, though I would personally go with EE as a first pick.

[Rubik]

It was DM-granted array so I could have good scores while still learning to play out this new-to-me class. And I don't think he has much in the noob lol

So Take both Point Blank Shot and Psionic Shot?
Synad gets a bonus of 3 at lvl 1 for each personality
Synad has 60' Darkvision

So switch out inertial armor for Force Screen?
inertial armor grants +4 and for Augment takes 2 PP for a +1 AC Bonus
Force Screen grants +4 and for Augment needs 4 PP for a +1 Shield Bonus/
Both grant against Incorporeal touch attacks.Buy a few power stones of Inertial Armor to go with your Force Screen, and wear some leather armor (or a chain shirt, if you don't mind the armor check penalty). 1st level power stones only cost 25 gp, and according to Complete Psionic you can use your own power points to manifest from a power stone instead of using the stone itself. You use your own manifester level when you do, and can augment it as you would normally, though you still flush the stone in doing so.

If you find yourself up against incorporeal foes you can manifest Inertial Armor for the +X to your incorporeal touch AC from the stone, which will stack with the Force Screen power.

In fact, you might want to look into several 1st level power stones of various powers so you can widen your repertoire.

[DoppelgangerMan]

I believe our Rogue has Darkvision, so I was thinking maybe helping with their Sneak Attack.

[DoppelgangerMan]

Umm Mithral Chain Shirt has a 0 ACP but a 10% ASF

I very may well use stones. Now do I learn those spells or are they like a one off?

[Psyren]

Umm Mithral Chain Shirt has a 0 ACP but a 10% ASF

ASF doesn't matter for you. If you can get Mithral at level 1 go for it.



I very may well use stones. Now do I learn those spells or are they like a one off?

They are one-off.

[Fouredged Sword]

The rules for a power stones and using powers from another person are here

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#manifestAnUnknownPowerFr omAnothersPowersKnown

As far as I can tell, it doesn't use the stone, so any power you are not going to use in a time sensitive situation should be considered as a stone rather than a power known.

[Rubik]

ASF doesn't matter for you. If you can get Mithral at level 1 go for it.This. The only psionics that has arcane spell failure is the convert-spell-to-power erudite, and then only for the arcane spells he learns. You don't have to worry about it otherwise...assuming you don't have any spell-like abilities, anyway.


The rules for a power stones and using powers from another person are here

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#manifestAnUnknownPowerFr omAnothersPowersKnown

As far as I can tell, it doesn't use the stone, so any power you are not going to use in a time sensitive situation should be considered as a stone rather than a power known.You use the stone up when you manifest from it.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/powerStones.htm

[DoppelgangerMan]

With the shirt my Ac at 1rst level would be 10+3+4=17 + either Force Screen or IA for another +4

Also the whole Power Stone thing, do I add that power to my list when I address the stone or is it much like a scroll/potion and I dont learn it just get its effect.

[Anzyr]

[INDENT]The erudite was updated in errata to where instead of having a limit on unique powers per level per day, it was changed to unique powers per day period, which all but cripples the erudite class. For that reason and others, certain very specific things should not count against that unique powers per day limit.

I find this extremely hard to believe owing to the fact that https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a does not even have Complete Psionic listed... Care to cite a source for this?

RAW, Erudite is Unique Power per Level per Day. I would also recommend against making an Erudite especially if you are new to psionics and would suggest being a Psion instead. I find this guide to be excellent (and no nonsense) http://www.brilliantgameologists.com/boards/?topic=10238.0.

[Rubik]

With the shirt my Ac at 1rst level would be 10+3+4=17 + either Force Screen or IA for another +4Note that the bonus from Inertial Armor doesn't stack with your regular armor, but it does apply towards incorporeal touch attacks, unlike regular armor.


Also the whole Power Stone thing, do I add that power to my list when I address the stone or is it much like a scroll/potion and I dont learn it just get its effect.It's like a scroll and you get the effect. You don't add it to your list of powers known.

Note that you can use other psionic characters like you can with a power stone, but you don't "flush" their knowledge of the power.

[SingleCrystal]

Umm Mithral Chain Shirt has a 0 ACP but a 10% ASF

I very may well use stones. Now do I learn those spells or are they like a one off?


Psionics powers do not suffer from arcane spell failure. They don't require verbal/somatic/material components as well. All you have to do is to stare at the target to get a line of sight, and you're golden.

Power stones are like exactly like scrolls, except they can store multiple powers in one stone(1d3 for low level stones, 1d4 for mid level, 1d6 for major stones). Note that you can't use discipline powers that are outside of your discipline list, no matter your UMD/UPD skill; since you are going to be a telepath, you can't use a power stone containing Metamorphosis, a 4th level Egoist power. You can still use Psychic Warrior powers if you have high enough UMD/UPD.

[DoppelgangerMan]

That was the only think I really liked about the Erudite was that its special class ability is to basically harvest powers to add to your own List.

Ok so powers should be changed to Force Screen, that stacks with other armor?

And use the Point Blank Shot and Psionic Shot to make my Energy Ray power do epic damage for 1rst level that is a total of 3d6+1 damage. And it goes to my Crossbow (At least the+1)

So Anything else I should get aside from a few Power Stones but if IA doesn't stack with normal armor should I get it if I am not fighting Incorporeal creatures?

[Fouredged Sword]

Psionic shot works with ANY ranged attack, not just psionic powers.

You can use it with your crossbow for +2d6 damage.

[SingleCrystal]

And use the Point Blank Shot and Psionic Shot to make my Energy Ray power do epic damage for 1rst level that is a total of 3d6+1 damage. And it goes to my Crossbow (At least the+1)

You have to expend a psionic focus for each psionic shot. Gathering a focus requires a DC 20 Concentration check as a full round action (at least at the beginning). At 1st level, your concentration modifier would probably be at around +6(4 ranks, 14 CON), +9 if you get a Single-minded Psicrystal, +11 if you can get your Single-minded Psicrystal to help you with gaining focus, and even with that you only have a 55% chance to successfully gain a focus.
(Don't get Skill Focus(Concentration) unless it's a low level campaign; psionic classes are extremely feat starved.)

Assuming you store your focus in between encounters, you would be shooting at most one psionic shot per encounter, two if your friends can cover you. That's the price for doing an additional 2d6 damage at level 1.

Don't forget to set your WIS to at least 13, so you can learn the Psionic Meditation feat that allows you to gain a focus with a move action.

[Rubik]

Don't forget to set your WIS to at least 13, so you can learn the Psionic Meditation feat that allows you to gain a focus with a move action.That's not a problem; his lowest score is 14.

[Spuddles]

I would strongly recommend against using anything that would give you a penalty on attack rolls, like wearing armor with an armor check penalty.

This is because you've invested a lot in making attack rolls- two feats and a psychic power. There's no reason to increase your chance of flubbing an attack roll. A miss means you've wasted your psychic shot, your mind laser, or your bottle of acid.


Psionic shot works with ANY ranged attack, not just psionic powers.

You can use it with your crossbow for +2d6 damage.

Or throw a flask of acid with +2d6 damage (and +1 to hit and +1 damage)

[DoppelgangerMan]

So
Str: 14
Dex: 16
Con: 18
Int: 18
Wis: 14


PP 7 [2+2+3=7]
Powers Known 3
Power Level: 1st
Powers: Energy Ray, Control Light, Force Screen +4 AC

Feats: Discipline-Telepath, Point Blank Shot, Psionic Shot.

Armor: Mithral Chain Shirt (no Penalty) +4 AC

Weapons: Heavy/Light Crossbow (Psions gain Proficiency in them); Flasks of Acid/Alchemist Fire/etc.

[Fouredged Sword]

Holy water is also good. Ghosts and such are hard to kill without something that can bypass the fact that they are incorporeal. It is worth carrying a flask or two just for that.

[Perseus]

I would strongly recommend against using anything that would give you a penalty on attack rolls, like wearing armor with an armor check penalty.

This is because you've invested a lot in making attack rolls- two feats and a psychic power. There's no reason to increase your chance of flubbing an attack roll. A miss means you've wasted your psychic shot, your mind laser, or your bottle of acid.



Or throw a flask of acid with +2d6 damage (and +1 to hit and +1 damage)

The armor of choice has a 0 acp.

Of course I could see a psion taking a level of fighter and then running around on skate while wearing mithril full plate...

[SingleCrystal]

The armor of choice has a 0 acp.

Psions have no proficiency in armor, so that's a -4 to all attack rolls.



Of course I could see a psion taking a level of fighter and then running around on skate while wearing mithril full plate...


That's the idea behind psion-gishes :smalltongue:

[Rubik]

Psions have no proficiency in armor, so that's a -4 to all attack rolls.Only if there's -4 ACP. Leather armor, for instance, has 0 ACP and provides no penalties on anything except possible Dex to AC.

[DoppelgangerMan]

So for a power would I need to roll?
Like if I wanted to use Energy Ray would I need to roll a d20+dex+1 to hit and then roll the damage?
Or is it different?

How does Mind Thrust 1d10 compare to Energy Ray 1d6
It has an Augment of 1d10 per point point used?
Would this be a ranged attack too?

[Maginomicon]

Race: Synad ...ooh boy.

Okay, um, in that case I'd recommend you suggest your GM read the following regarding the Synad race:

The Multitask ability was written ambiguously, so I had to dig into the original source for the synad race, Dragon Magazine #314. It states this:


Multitask (Su): A synad’s three-fold mind can temporarily separate, allowing the character to take more than a single mental action during his turn. Once per day, a synad can spend a power point as a free action to gain a free standard action that the synad can use to take any purely mental action. The mental action may be using a Knowledge, Psicraft, or other skill check requiring only mental cogitation. The mental action could also be the manifestation of a psionic power; however, the synad can only manifest a power with its extra mental action if the normal actions allowed the character during the round do not also involved manifesting a power.

Further, the D&D 3.5 FAQ had this to say about what counts as a “purely mental action”:

The schism power specifically includes manifesting a power as an example of a purely mental action. Elsewhere in XPH, this is expanded to include “casting spells with no verbal, somatic, or material components.” Thus, a silent, still spell wouldn’t count unless the spell also had no material components (including focuses).

A spell-like ability is essentially a spell without verbal, somatic, or material components (and is described on page 180 of the PH as being activated “mentally”) so that qualifies as purely mental. This would also include psi-like abilities.

Although a quickened spell doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, it still includes any verbal, somatic, or material components required by the nonquickened version of the spell, and thus doesn’t automatically qualify as a “purely mental” action by virtue of its speed.

The Sage can think of a few other actions that fall into the category of “purely mental” actions:

Communicating with telepathy.
Concentrating to maintain a spell.
Dismissing a spell.
Directing or redirecting an active spell.
Lowering spell resistance.
Making a Knowledge check (assuming you aren’t consulting a text or other resource). Some other skill checks might be allowed at the DM’s option (such as a Spellcraft check made to identify a spell effect), but only if the character makes the check without any movement.

When in doubt, the DM should use common sense and a pretty literal definition of “purely mental” to determine if something fits the bill. If the action requires any physical movement whatsoever (including speech), it shouldn’t qualify.

[Rubik]

Most Chaotic characters could be considered purely mental as well.

Example:http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130102094210/mlp/images/thumb/e/e8/Crazy_Pinkie_Pie_S1E25.png/180px-Crazy_Pinkie_Pie_S1E25.png

[DoppelgangerMan]

I will make sure he knows, I saw that on there and was wondering what mental action actually counted as.

I have picked up the Minotaur profile pages since my GM swears by them

Well it has on the Psion sheet
Power Levels
Power Level Power Cost power save DC Discipline power
1 1 [Blank] [Blank]

What is it asking for? I know Power save Dc is 10+int+Powers level
Is it asking for me to fill in my Discipline powers into that space?

In the Expanded Psionic Handbook I just noticed Telepaths do not get Used Psionic Devices only Shapers do.

[Raendyn]

I find this extremely hard to believe owing to the fact that https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a does not even have Complete Psionic listed... Care to cite a source for this?

RAW, Erudite is Unique Power per Level per Day. I would also recommend against making an Erudite especially if you are new to psionics and would suggest being a Psion instead. I find this guide to be excellent (and no nonsense) http://www.brilliantgameologists.com/boards/?topic=10238.0.

It was never ment to be per level per day, and this becomes rly clear when u read the epic erudite a few pages later...

[DoppelgangerMan]

BtW according to CPsi Erudite is a Variant Psion

[Spuddles]

Don't worry too much about picking the most optimal feats & powers & skills- this power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicReformation.htm) let's you repick later.

Psychic Reformation is maybe my favorite spell/power/ability of all time, for just that reason. Very party friendly, too.

Using Control Light to get your rogue friend sneak attack is a really great idea. Those little bastards can deliver a ton of damage.

Energy Ray requires a ranged touch attack, so roll a d20+BAB+dex+1 (if within 30ft). Damage would be 1d6+1 (if fire)+1 (point blank shot), +2d6(if using psionic shot). All that extra damage takes the energy type you use, so in this case, 3d6+1 fire damage.

Mind Thrust would deliver 1d10 damage if the target failed a will save. If they make it, nothing happens.

Of course, when you can spend more power points on these powers when your manifester level goes up, you can do more damage.

[DoppelgangerMan]

Alright thank you so much for the info I always forget BAB when using ranged weapons but its 0 at lvl 1 anyway so not much of a problem.

I should not have mentioned the Erudite to my gm because now he is all confused and I had to explain normal psions did not work that way. But of course I explained the huge downside to a Erudite at lvl 1 you can only use 1 power at level 2 use 2, at lvl 4 you use 3 powers per day. I have a feeling if I had used that I would be making us stop for 8 hour rests often... unless we house ruled it.

[Maginomicon]

I should not have mentioned the Erudite to my gm because now he is all confused and I had to explain normal psions did not work that way. But of course I explained the huge downside to a Erudite at lvl 1 you can only use 1 power at level 2 use 2, at lvl 4 you use 3 powers per day. I have a feeling if I had used that I would be making us stop for 8 hour rests often... unless we house ruled it.The way to best think about it is that if a psion is like a specialist wizard (one that specializes in a school), an erudite is like a generalist wizard (one that does not specialize in a school).

The one unique power per day isn't that big an issue if you pick a really versatile power like Call Item (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827e).

[Maginomicon]

I find this extremely hard to believe owing to the fact that https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a does not even have Complete Psionic listed... Care to cite a source for this?Google "Official Complete Psionic Errata". The reason it isn't on the website is because the errata file was a work-in-progress but its release was canned because it was too late in D&D 3.5's life cycle for them to finalize it.

[DoppelgangerMan]

DM said if he had to house rule it he would do it this way
At lvl 1-5 you get to add your level to the regular UP/D so at 1rst you get 2, at 2nd you get 4, 3rd you get 5 (3+2); at 4th 7 and at 5; at 5th he would get an 8 UP/D and then +5 to all the normal levels from there on out so at 6th it would be 4+5 at 8th it would be 5+5

[Anzyr]

Google "Official Complete Psionic Errata". The reason it isn't on the website is because the errata file was a work-in-progress but its release was canned because it was too late in D&D 3.5's life cycle for them to finalize it.

You realize that's just a file by guy who claims its the Complete Psionic errata. On that note, I have been sitting on the errata for the Tome of Battle, think I should release that PDF?*

*If you believe this I have a great deal on timeshare in Nigeria.**
** If you believed that please make a Wisdom check to continue existing. Not a Will Save... a Wisdom check.

[Maginomicon]

You realize that's just a file by guy who claims its the Complete Psionic errata. On that note, I have been sitting on the errata for the Tome of Battle, think I should release that PDF?*You're probably looking at the wrong thing then.

[DoppelgangerMan]

Hmm I guess technically you could trade out the bonus starting feat for either a Discipline like Telepathy or Convert Spell-To-Power which bonus feat are they talking about? The Erudite gains the Psicrystal as a BONUS Feat and has one labeled as Bonus feat. Couldn't you technically then use both?

[Maginomicon]

Hmm I guess technically you could trade out the bonus starting feat for either a Discipline like Telepathy or Convert Spell-To-Power which bonus feat are they talking about? The Erudite gains the Psicrystal as a BONUS Feat and has one labeled as Bonus feat. Couldn't you technically then use both?
Some people think so, but personally I consider that a deliberate misinterpretation of the rules. The term "as a bonus feat" is different from a feature named "Bonus Feat". It's referring to the feature in the class progression named "Bonus Feat".

[DoppelgangerMan]

I agree I was just pointing it out.

Also I guess my DM read the CPsi bit on Erudite and he told me that the UP/D is actually done so which I didn't know.
at level 3 you gain access to 2nd level powers but your UP/D says you can use 2. Well as he read it that means 2 of each level so 2 level 1 powers and 2 level 2 powers.

Did he read these wrong? I think he might be considering an Erudite character lol.

[Rubik]

Hmm I guess technically you could trade out the bonus starting feat for either a Discipline like Telepathy or Convert Spell-To-Power which bonus feat are they talking about? The Erudite gains the Psicrystal as a BONUS Feat and has one labeled as Bonus feat. Couldn't you technically then use both?Erudites gain two bonus feats at first level. Either could be traded out, since each of them are bonus feats.


Some people think so, but personally I consider that a deliberate misinterpretation of the rules. The term "as a bonus feat" is different from a feature named "Bonus Feat". It's referring to the feature in the class progression named "Bonus Feat".I don't see how that could be a misinterpretation. Erudites explicitly get two bonus feats. They can trade out a bonus feat for an ACF. What's to misunderstand?

[Maginomicon]

I agree I was just pointing it out.

Also I guess my DM read the CPsi bit on Erudite and he told me that the UP/D is actually done so which I didn't know.
at level 3 you gain access to 2nd level powers but your UP/D says you can use 2. Well as he read it that means 2 of each level so 2 level 1 powers and 2 level 2 powers.

Did he read these wrong? I think he might be considering an Erudite character lol.
Keep in mind, UP/D isn't how many powers you can have, it's how many powers you can manifest. An erudite could conceivably have 10 powers at first level (by using power stones and using his learning abilities to absorb them into his repertoire), but UP/D is where when you manifest a unique power it consumes one of your choices for UP/D.

That is, if I have in my repertoire

Inertial Armor (1st),
Call Item (1st),
Energy Ray (1st), and
Energy Stun (2nd)

and somehow I'm only allowed 1 UP/D, that means the first time I manifest one of those four powers that day, that's the only power I can manifest that day, regardless of the level of the power.

[Maginomicon]

Erudites gain two bonus feats at first level. Either could be traded out, since each of them are bonus feats.

I don't see how that could be a misinterpretation. Erudites explicitly get two bonus feats. They can trade out a bonus feat for an ACF. What's to misunderstand?

Because the ACFs do not say in the "Replaces" line "You lose a 1st-level bonus feat", they say "You lose your 1st-level bonus feat."

"Your" is singular. It's referring to you only having one bonus feat, and thus it makes far more sense for it to be referring to the class feature named "Bonus Feat".

[DoppelgangerMan]

I said that.
A lvl 1 you get only one Unique Power per Day at level 3 you gain the ability to use Two Unique Power Per Day per level

Unlike a psion, an erudite
is limited to manifesting a certain number of unique
psionic powers of each level per day from, the repertoire
of powers he knows, according to his class level.
- Taken from the Unique Powers Per Day section of the Erudite Class Features.

Also due to it saying Repertoire couldn't use use any number of Stone Powers?

[Maginomicon]

Also due to it saying Repertoire couldn't use use any number of Stone Powers?If your GM were to follow the house rule I presented for what "unique power" means...

If and only if the erudite uses his own personal power points in the initial manifesting cost of manifesting a power and that power is only accessible from his erudite power list does it count against his unique powers per day limit.
...then you could use a stone's power without affecting your UP/D. In the rules as-written though, using a power stone could be interpreted as expending a UP/D, which would horribly screw you over since after that the power stone is flushed and useless.

If you take the time to absorb it into your repertoire though using your erudite learning abilities, then it becomes a permanent part of your repertoire, and would not screw you over.

[DoppelgangerMan]

The passage I used is from the book itself. It specifically states from the repertoire that he knows. So following the exact letter of that passage which does state a specific source for the Unique Powers limit. It says at least to me that if I used my 1 power from my list, I can't use powers from my list directly. But Power Stones are not part of my list, even if I have that power on my list, I am not using it FROM my list.

[Maginomicon]

I am not using it FROM my list.Hence why I said as-written it could be conceivably interpreted in a way that would screw you over. The house rule I gave makes it explicit that it can't screw you over.

(I'm agreeing with you)

[DoppelgangerMan]

I know, I am saying you do not need a house rule, the written passage gives you this opening.
this is like saying a Wizard cannot use a wand if he has used his spell splots for the day (To be honest I never read up on wizard so this might be a really bad example)

[Rubik]

Because the ACFs do not say in the "Replaces" line "You lose a 1st-level bonus feat", they say "You lose your 1st-level bonus feat."

"Your" is singular. It's referring to you only having one bonus feat, and thus it makes far more sense for it to be referring to the class feature named "Bonus Feat".You get two bonus feats. You're adding complexity where there is none.

And "your" is also plural. You still only trade one feat, though, even though you have two you could choose from.

[Maginomicon]

I know, I am saying you do not need a house rule, the written passage gives you this opening.
this is like saying a Wizard cannot use a wand if he has used his spell splots for the day (To be honest I never read up on wizard so this might be a really bad example)
There's a couple of other things that house rule fixes (it wasn't just to deal with power stones). Most notably, it fixes the problem for multiclassing with another manifesting class, as the erudite rules could technically be interpreted such that a power you have from levels in wilder could count against your erudite UP/D (it sounds silly, but there are sillier interpretations. For example: I have a GM that treats squares as squares instead of cubes for the purposes of determining if you're in someone's threatened squares, even if you're flying 100 feet in the air.)

[DoppelgangerMan]

I was just pointing out to much of a house ruling is not needed. I would still house rule it to add more just because lvl 1-3 is insanely difficult with this class damn near impossible to enjoy because you're a one trick pony this point. Pick a power and spam it. I mean yes a warrior does the same, but still they have some differences that the Warrior can enjoy.

I think I added before how I would adding the level to the amount of Unique Powers per day would still limit it, but still allow low levels some fun.

[Maginomicon]

I was just pointing out to much of a house ruling is not needed. I would still house rule it to add more just because lvl 1-3 is insanely difficult with this class damn near impossible to enjoy because you're a one trick pony this point. Pick a power and spam it. I mean yes a warrior does the same, but still they have some differences that the Warrior can enjoy.

I think I added before how I would adding the level to the amount of Unique Powers per day would still limit it, but still allow low levels some fun.
That's not really all that different a situation than a sorcerer at level 1. A sorcerer at level 1 maybe has one good attack spell aside from cantrips, with the rest being things like Mage Armor. The sorcerer makes up for this by having weapon proficiencies that allow them to contribute in ways other than spells.

An erudite has weapon proficiencies as well, and given that all manifesters can be covert about their manifesting ability, you can pass yourself off as a non-manifester if you had to. Plus you can always choose to give the Hidden Talent feat to your Psicrystal, incrementing your number of powers available to you (I recommend Astral Construct or Call Item for this).

[DoppelgangerMan]

If I made a Erudite with the scores I have used so 18 to Intel I would start as a Erudite with 10 powers. But the ability to use only 1 per day a total of 7 times so long as it takes 1 pp each.

They do have weapons like the Crossbow, sure you can use your power, or switch to your crossbow. But why? If they are no different to Sorc/Wizards why even play one?

What is the cool incentive to roll a 1rst level Erudite?
As a Sorc you get 5 level 0 spells to use at 1rst level and 3 level 1 spells.
Wizards get 3 level 0 spells and 1 level 1 spell.

So why not make a Sorcerer or a Wizard then, in fact they seem at level 1 to be more powerful due to the number of spells uses.

[Maginomicon]

If they are no different to Sorc/Wizards why even play one?
What is the cool incentive to roll a 1rst level Erudite?
So why not make a Sorcerer or a Wizard then, in fact they seem at level 1 to be more powerful due to the number of spells uses.
This is a moot question. All classes are rather lackluster at first level. It's what happens later on that makes them cool. (That said, there a number of reasons to 1-level-dip particular classes.)

[DoppelgangerMan]

Well I was wrong about the 10 it would be 6, I I mixed up PP and Powers known.

Erudite lvl 1 without Int bonus has 2 known powers, can use only 1
Erudite lvl 2 without Int bonus knows only 4 powers, can use only 2[My opinion is two of each, but for this argument we will just give with that chart lists]

So even me with a +4 Int which is the best you can hope for gets 6 at lvl 1 and 8 total at lvl 2.

[Spuddles]

Erudites start with 3+int first level known powers, or in your case, 7. Wizards start with all cantrips and 3+int first level spells known. A sorcerer starts with 3 known cantrips and only a single 1st level spell known.

A wizard with 18 int gets 2 first level spells to cast a day. A sorcerer has 4 1st level spells a day to cast, but they're all gonna be the same thing

An erudite gets to use a first level power 7 times and he gets to pick one of 7 different powers.

At third level, an erudite gets 4 unique powers per day, I believe. 2 first and 2 second. At level 20 you get 99 unique powers per day- 11 of each level.

[DoppelgangerMan]

Thats PP The fluff tells me it starts with 2 first level spells plus 1 for each point of Int Bonus.

And yes I know, I also figured it would have access to unlimited Power Stone.

[ZethVorador]

Ok instead of reading everything written I will give what I know.

http://www.brilliantgameologists.com/boards/?topic=10238.0 this is an amazing handbook that will give you the best options.

I have player two Psions from 1-20 so here's what I've learned.

-If you don't want a psionic race Grey Elves are the best.

-Your skills are meh so consider diping into a class like rogue to open up those options but telepath may add to what you'd need

-I played telepath both times and had a great time with them

-Improve your psicrystal, he's a little scout that rarely goes unnoticed and adds some great bonuses

-Your damage potential is amazing and versitile so picking the powers is key.

Actually 99% of my advice is in the handbook so check that it's all very helpful.

[DoppelgangerMan]

My DM just wanted more info on the Erudite since I brought it up. I do admit I LOVE the idea of taking powers from another via mental connection.

I have seen the link, it is provided on one of the other pages, I do love it so far.

I just liked the Synad for the RP bit three minds.

So any advice for my Psion Telepath?

[ZethVorador]

My DM just wanted more info on the Erudite since I brought it up. I do admit I LOVE the idea of taking powers from another via mental connection.

I have seen the link, it is provided on one of the other pages, I do love it so far.

I just liked the Synad for the RP bit three minds.

So any advice for my Psion Telepath?

Miind Switch, True is amazing. Schism is also super helpful. Telepath RP is very fun, being able to read minds is amazing. With telepathy take Mindsight from LOM it's just amazing and There's also an Alternate Class Feature for the Psion(Telepath) in a Mind's Eye article - replaces the 5th level bonus feat, grants telepathy at 5 feet per manifester level.

[Anzyr]

You're probably looking at the wrong thing then.

I'm really very certain I don't have the wrong thing. You should be very careful with your google searches. Just because something looks to be official hardly makes it so. I already linked you the appropriate page for WotC issued errata and Complete Psionic is not listed. Please cite you sources, because I am rapidly becoming convinced it is mere misinformation.

[DoppelgangerMan]

Awesome thanks

[ZethVorador]

Miind Switch, True is amazing. Schism is also super helpful. Telepath RP is very fun, being able to read minds is amazing. With telepathy take Mindsight from LOM it's just amazing and There's also an Alternate Class Feature for the Psion(Telepath) in a Mind's Eye article - replaces the 5th level bonus feat, grants telepathy at 5 feet per manifester level.

Sorry I missed what. Take telepathy as your ACF then take mindsight. the combo is just amazing

[Spuddles]

Thats PP The fluff tells me it starts with 2 first level spells plus 1 for each point of Int Bonus.

And yes I know, I also figured it would have access to unlimited Power Stone.

You asked why you would choose a level 1 erudite over a level 1 sorcerer.

In your adventuring day, you both are limited to only one spell "known", but a erudite gets to use it almost 100% more frequently. An erudite also has a repertoire of 2+int powers known (my mistake; I thought erudites started with as many spells known as a wizard) to draw from, unlike a sorcerer. This means you could use Astral Caravan on a day where you aren't adventuring, and Energy Ray the next.