Power gap between drunken master versions?

[CyberThread]

I don't own the book that holds drunken master 3.5 , but 3.0 is online , my player request it, but you know we ar eplaying 3.5 not 3.0. How large is the abuse for 3.0 instead of 3.5 , that they asked for the old version?



Edit: What is up with the second column , it list things like harms way and such, but not listed on the website?

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010105

[eggynack]

It looks like the two classes have really similar power levels. The new drink like a demon ability seems more powerful, as does the newer version of improvised weapons. The old version gets a rage ability at level 5, and the for medicinal purposes ability is usable more times per day. That's what I noticed in a side by side look through, but I may have gotten some things wrong. Anyways, the point is that there isn't much of a power gap. They're incredibly similar in most ways, and neither class is going to be overpowering.

Edit: Actually, I partially take it back. The old version gets full BAB, while the new one gets 3/4's, so the old one is probably better. I'd probably have them use the new one, because it fits into 3.5 better, and just ask them why they want the old version. If it's something that doesn't matter, you might want to just toss it onto the new class and call it a day. They're drunken masters, so you can be lenient and not worry too much. This includes stuff like just giving them full BAB, because they're really not going to break anything with that.

[kulosle]

In my opinion 3.0 is worse. Much worse. The only thing it has going for it is that 3.5 doesn't is full BAB. Which my group house rules that all monk classes, except the theurge classes, are full BAB. Dink like a demon is worse, except i guess you can have as many as you have points to give up, but it also lowers dex and 3.5s doesn't. Improvised weapon does let you flurry with it, but you can just give that to them anyways.

Really you aren't going to break monks with this class, so let them have both and choose the best of each. It won't affect your game that much.

[eggynack]

In my opinion 3.0 is worse. Much worse. The only thing it has going for it is that 3.5 doesn't is full BAB. Which my group house rules that all monk classes, except the theurge classes, are full BAB. Dink like a demon is worse, except i guess you can have as many as you have points to give up, but it also lowers dex and 3.5s doesn't. Improvised weapon does let you flurry with it, but you can just give that to them anyways.

Really you aren't going to break monks with this class, so let them have both and choose the best of each. It won't affect your game that much.
I don't think that you can claim that one class is better than the other class, and then give the class you're claiming is better a bunch of house rules in their favor. I could just make all of those claims, and do so in the opposite way, and we'd be back where we started. Also, you don't seem to lose much of anything from the dexterity penalty, so it's approximately irrelevant. They also get that rage ability, which is neat. The one thing I do agree with you about is that it doesn't matter. You can just toss every advantage from one class over to the other class, and the character would still be trailing behind even tier four classes. It just doesn't make much of a difference. I'd still use the new one as the basis though, because it's a little more compatible.

[DR27]

In all reality, both are weak enough that you should let them combine the best aspects of each unless you are playing a very low power game.

[eggynack]

In all reality, both are weak enough that you should let them combine the best aspects of each unless you are playing a very low power game.
That is indeed the general consensus. You could even power up the abilities of the subsequent combined drunken master, and it would still be pretty mediocre. It's not the worst monk PrC, but it's still a monk PrC. Just find out what the players want, and just keep giving it to them for awhile. Frigging monks, man. The iron chef entry where he used himself as an improvised weapon was pretty cool though.

[StreamOfTheSky]

The first thing I noticed with the 3.0 version is that it doesn't require FoB. I know many a hopeful build that wanted to use drunken master but didn't want to suck down any monk levels being thwarted by that. Or even ones who DID dip monk, but wanted Decisive Strike or whatever. Now granted, Great Fortitude and Dodge are pretty awful feat pre-reqs, but... 3.5 version needs them, too.
Oh, and tumble 6 ranks and BAB +4 potentially means 5th level entry (if you use a full BAB class w/ Tumble in-class like Warblade, or take Martial Study for Desert Wind), while as 3.5's 8 rank requirement (but no BAB requirement) ensures min. of 6th level entry. Could make a big difference; in E6 it means the difference between getting Stagger (the PrC's best feature, IMO) or never getting it, for instance.


In all reality, both are weak enough that you should let them combine the best aspects of each unless you are playing a very low power game.

This.