Ring of wizardry 0

[bot]

Hi, I was wondering if there exists a ring if wizardry 0, that doubles my 0 lvl spells?
It would be rather nice on my shadowcraft mage gnome, as I'm tight on gold - but I'm not sure it exists?

[Garagos]

I don't think it exists in any books I know of, but no reason it couldn't. Just use the rules in the DMG for making a magic ring to determine the price. I'm sure it wouldn't cost too much.

[Diarmuid]

The existing rings of wizardry cost ~20-25k per spell level with the value increasing from 20k at 1st and 2nd to ~23k at 3rd and 25k at 4th.

I know it seems like a lot, but I probably wouldnt go much below 15k for a RoW 0th.

[CaladanMoonblad]

Yeah, I don't think it exists either in written material. The pricing formula is +20k, +30k, +30k... so the hypothetical Ring of Wizardry (0) would be 0 gp. : / So maybe offer 10K to your GM?

Many GMs will actually allow unlimited use of orisons/cantrips considering that's what Pathfinder ended up doing. Maybe your 10k Ring of Wizardry (0) would allow the same.

[Eldariel]

Yeah, I don't think it exists either in written material. The pricing formula is +20k, +30k, +30k... so the hypothetical Ring of Wizardry (0) would be 0 gp. : / So maybe offer 10K to your GM?

Many GMs will actually allow unlimited use of orisons/cantrips considering that's what Pathfinder ended up doing. Maybe your 10k Ring of Wizardry (0) would allow the same.

Cantrips are treated as level ½ spells for the purposes of pricing.

EDIT: DMG page 282 Behind the Scenes to be precise. And not just cantrips, orisons too of course. 0-Level Spells in general.

[Humble Master]

As a DM I would let it fly that you could craft or buy a Ring of Wizardry 0 for about 10,000 GP. I might even let the price drop lower as level 0 spells aren't all that powerful.

[fryplink]

For the purposes of pricing 0th level spells are considered 1/2 level, and are calculated in kind. That said, whenever I DM I let 0th level spells be cast at will, and make CMW only heal to half (like that healing reserve feat, or healing aura).

[Diarmuid]

How would you let it work for a Shadowcraft Mage using Silent Image to cast Shadow Evocations and other crazy shenanigans I dont pretend to understand fully?

[bot]

Ok thanks all for the replies. I'd like to stick to no homebrew/liberal ruling though - but was curious if Ihad just overlooked it somewhere .

In this case, since I'm playing a shadowcraft mage with silent image as a 0lvl spell (via ACF) and recidual magic feat - effectively meaning my 0lvl spells are used to cast spells of any lvl spell I just cast a hightened silent image from.

I'll save to a ring of wizardry 1 then :)

[SethoMarkus]

Well, while it is still up to the DM (as everything ultimately is), 1/2 spell level for 0-level spells isn't homebrew, nor is creating a "custom" magic item using the guidelines in the source books.

It looks like a RoW-0 for 10,000gp seems about the closest to source material you are going to get, though a RoW-1 will still probably be more useful in the long run.

[nedz]

I made one, stuck it on the market, and someone bought it (Scout/Sorcerer).
Price should be half that of a Ring o' Wiz level 1 — so 10,000 gp.
It's not really homebrew, just a custom item.

[CaladanMoonblad]

Cantrips are treated as level ½ spells for the purposes of pricing.

EDIT: DMG page 282 Behind the Scenes to be precise. And not just cantrips, orisons too of course. 0-Level Spells in general.

I'm well aware of the individual pricing guide in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm). The Ring of Wizardry's doubling spell slot effect is not part of table of generic magic item effects; so my suggestion of 10k is in line with the 1/2 level general rule (my reasoning for it not being 0 gp). However, I was looking at the Pricing of Ring of Wizardry I, II, III, and IV as a variable line slope on an XY graph, which can be done by solving for differences between points. The pricing is as follows;


Moderate (wizardry I) or strong (wizardry II-IV) (no school); CL 11th (I), 14th (II), 17th (III), 20th (IV); Forge Ring, limited wish; Price 20,000 gp (I), 40,000 gp (II), 70,000 gp (III), 100,000 gp (IV).

See? 20k difference between 1 and 2. 30k difference between 2 and 3. Another 30k difference between 3 and 4. One could extrapolate higher level versions of this ring, such as 140k for V(+40k), 180k for VI (+40k), 230k for VII (+50k), 280k for VIII (+50k), and 340k for IX (+60k).

[Barstro]

I realize that Cantrips, when compared to Spells, are really not that powerful, but I assume there is a reason that no such ring was made; just like a high stat does not increase the number you can have prepared for the day. You would theoretically be doubling the amount of infinite casting options.

Playtest would have to verify, but I guess that by the time you can spend 10,000 gp, all the Cantrips in the world won't add too much to your power.

[bot]

See? 20k difference between 1 and 2. 30k difference between 2 and 3. Another 30k difference between 3 and 4. One could extrapolate higher level versions of this ring, such as 140k for V(+40k), 180k for VI (+40k), 230k for VII (+50k), 280k for VIII (+50k), and 340k for IX (+60k).

The higher levels cost vastly more than that unfortunately

Epic Wizardry
Like the ring of wizardry, this ring comes in a variety of types useful only to arcane spellcasters. The wearer’s arcane spells per day are doubled for one particular spell level. An epic ring of wizardry V doubles 5th-level spells, an epic ring of wizardry VI doubles 6th-level spells, an epic ring of wizardry VII doubles 7th-level spells, an epic ring of wizardry VIII doubles 8th-level spells, and an epic ring of wizardry IX doubles 9th-level spells. Bonus spells from high ability scores, school specialization, or any other source are not doubled.

Caster Level: 23rd (epic wizardry V), 26th (epic wizardry VI), 29th (epic wizardry VII), 32nd (epic wizardry VIII), 35th (epic wizardry IX); Prerequisites: Forge Ring, Forge Epic Ring, wish; Market Price: 250,000 gp (epic wizardry V), 360,000 gp (epic wizardry VI), 490,000 gp (epic wizardry VII), 640,000 gp (epic wizardry VIII), 810,000 gp (epic wizardry IX).

[Drachasor]

Rings of Wizardry are bizarrely priced and, honestly, quite overpriced. Let's ignore them.

Rings of Spell-Storing could also be considered overpriced, but it has a clear cost mechanism. 2000*Spell_Levels^2 (Minor is 3, giving you 18k, Normal is 5, giving you 50k, and greater is 10 giving you 200k, just like the book).

So a Ring of Spell Storing (II) would cost 8k. A Ring of Spell Storing (I) would cost just 2k.

Anyone can use the spell stored. Though, limiting it to just the caster? I think that it is fair to say that halves the price. So (II) is 4k. Just cantrips? Halves it again, at least, to just 2k. Moving it from storage to just extra slots? Probably doubles it back to 4k. Something like that anyhow.

Sure, that's rough, but can anyone honestly say that 4k market for 4 more cantrip slots is a bad idea? I mean heck, it's arguably STILL overpriced. You could get 4 Pearls of Power (I) for that price!

Anyhow, I'm fine with it, though in my own game I might knock it down to 2k or 3k, depending. Though I'd probably also allow your spellcasting stat to grant extra cantrip slots.

They're just cantrips guys. 10k for 4 slots? That's pure madness!


Alternative Pricing Scheme:

4*7*1800/5 ~= 10k for a Mnemonic Enhancer 1/day which is 3 spell levels, but that can give you a 3rd level spell. I don't think this is unreasonably priced (it's about the same as a wand of that spell, which is 50 days of extra magic). As a starting point that's also going to get you a pretty darn low number on the value of a cantrip.

Heck, an item of "give me a cantrip as much as I want" is .5*1*2000 = 1000. Anyone actually think that's overpowered or underpriced? WotC thought it should be less (900gp for Hand of the Mage), though I personally think that's a bit overpriced given that it takes up a neck slot (granted my calculation would too).

Point is, 10k is insane and half of 10k is still too much.

[Khosan]

The higher levels cost vastly more than that unfortunately

Epic Wizardry
Like the ring of wizardry, this ring comes in a variety of types useful only to arcane spellcasters. The wearer’s arcane spells per day are doubled for one particular spell level. An epic ring of wizardry V doubles 5th-level spells, an epic ring of wizardry VI doubles 6th-level spells, an epic ring of wizardry VII doubles 7th-level spells, an epic ring of wizardry VIII doubles 8th-level spells, and an epic ring of wizardry IX doubles 9th-level spells. Bonus spells from high ability scores, school specialization, or any other source are not doubled.

Caster Level: 23rd (epic wizardry V), 26th (epic wizardry VI), 29th (epic wizardry VII), 32nd (epic wizardry VIII), 35th (epic wizardry IX); Prerequisites: Forge Ring, Forge Epic Ring, wish; Market Price: 250,000 gp (epic wizardry V), 360,000 gp (epic wizardry VI), 490,000 gp (epic wizardry VII), 640,000 gp (epic wizardry VIII), 810,000 gp (epic wizardry IX).

The funny thing is that those actually adhere to a pattern: Spell Level squared x 10,000 gp. Normal Rings of Wizardry are just arbitrarily priced.

[Drachasor]

The funny thing is that those actually adhere to a pattern: Spell Level squared x 10,000 gp. Normal Rings of Wizardry are just arbitrarily priced.

For whatever it is worth: .5^2*10k = 2500

[bot]

I realize that Cantrips, when compared to Spells, are really not that powerful, but I assume there is a reason that no such ring was made; just like a high stat does not increase the number you can have prepared for the day. You would theoretically be doubling the amount of infinite casting options.

Playtest would have to verify, but I guess that by the time you can spend 10,000 gp, all the Cantrips in the world won't add too much to your power.

Except in the case of a shadowcaster build - when i cast a 6th lvl hightened image to imitate f.x. a Chain Lightning, then i can cast another Chain Lightning (or another 6th lvl shadow spell) using just a 0lvl spellslot. Same goes for all 5th, 4th and so forth downwards slots.

[nedz]

Scout 5 / Sorcerer 1, with Improved skirmish
Cantrip: Acid Splash: 1d3 + 4d6 — Ranged touch, no Save, no SR.

I believe that there are some high OP tricks you can pull with cantrips also.

[Drachasor]

Scout 5 / Sorcerer 1, with Improved skirmish
Cantrip: Acid Splash: 1d3 + 4d6 — Ranged touch, no Save, no SR.

Average damage on a hit: 16

Nothing to worry about there.

[Barstro]

Except in the case of a shadowcaster build - when i cast a 6th lvl hightened image to imitate f.x. a Chain Lightning, then i can cast another Chain Lightning (or another 6th lvl shadow spell) using just a 0lvl spellslot. Same goes for all 5th, 4th and so forth downwards slots.

You'd have to walk me through the trick you are trying to pull so I could understand it, but I think that when all is said and done, you would have proven exactly why there is no such thing as a cantrip ring that does this. :smalltongue:

[137beth]

I'm well aware of the individual pricing guide in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm). The Ring of Wizardry's doubling spell slot effect is not part of table of generic magic item effects; so my suggestion of 10k is in line with the 1/2 level general rule (my reasoning for it not being 0 gp). However, I was looking at the Pricing of Ring of Wizardry I, II, III, and IV as a variable line slope on an XY graph, which can be done by solving for differences between points. The pricing is as follows;



See? 20k difference between 1 and 2. 30k difference between 2 and 3. Another 30k difference between 3 and 4. One could extrapolate higher level versions of this ring, such as 140k for V(+40k), 180k for VI (+40k), 230k for VII (+50k), 280k for VIII (+50k), and 340k for IX (+60k).
But RoW 0 shouldn't be priced as if it is one level lower than RoW 1, it gets priced as if it is 1/2 spell level lower, since that's what it is.

Although really, cantrips should just be at-will, and a RoW 0 should be irrelevant.

[RogueDM]

Rings of Wizardry are bizarrely priced and, honestly, quite overpriced. Let's ignore them.

I don't know if it's because I'm very tired, or what, but that was very funny to me. At least, it sounded funny in my head. Maybe my internal monologue has very good delivery for mundane statements, like Leslie Nealson (RIP).

I generally hoard my gold like a dragon until I can buy something flashy to impress the magpies. Like a +1 Rapier of Lightning so I can pretend I have a lightsaber and annoy my fellow players by making accompanying sound effects each time I roll to attack.

[Selein]

Well if you want to stick to R.A.W. you can just use a R.o.W. 1 for your level 0 AND level 1 spells since any caster can use a lower level spell in a higher level slot.

[137beth]

Well if you want to stick to R.A.W. you can just use a R.o.W. 1 for your level 0 AND level 1 spells since any caster can use a lower level spell in a higher level slot.

Or just take a nod from PF and make cantrips at-will. Since ya'know, those are Rules which are Written:smalltongue:
Ooh! Even better, since all 3.5 content if "officially" compatible with PF, switch your game to PF, and ban all non-core Paizo books, and use the "optional" rules of reverting to 3.5 on everything EXCEPT the limit on cantrips/orisons per day! And it's not house-rules, since 3.5 is "official optional stuff" for PF. So now, you're basically playing 3.5 with one house-rule, but you are "officially" playing PF with a bunch of 3rd party books (all non-core WotC books) and "official optional rules"! All RAW:smalltongue: