What's Jirix up to?

[Demolator]

Jirix seemed pretty cool and all for most of the comic, but the last thing we saw him do was ruthlessly stomp on and kill a demon roach (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0833.html) the second the rest of Team Evil left
What does this show? It shows you don't mess with Jirix. As much as he probably loves the goblinoids as much as Redcloak, I wonder how faithful he is to the plan and all. He's just been put in charge of Gobbotopia, which seems to be in pretty good shape, having just crushed its resistance and establishing trade and everything.

So basically, Jirix has been pretty much left alone in charge of Gobbotopia, and has a lot of resources at his disposal. What does he intend to do with them, and will his nation thrive? Will he stick with the plan, or does the Prime Minister have his own agenda?

[Math_Mage]

There is no plan for Gobbotopia. Jirix can do whatever he wants. His 'agenda' is to make Gobbotopia thrive. The roaches were pests, not foreshadowing.

[Sunken Valley]

Jirix seemed pretty cool and all for most of the comic, but the last thing we saw him do was ruthlessly stomp on and kill a demon roach (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0833.html) the second the rest of Team Evil left
What does this show? It shows you don't mess with Jirix. As much as he probably loves the goblinoids as much as Redcloak, I wonder how faithful he is to the plan and all. He's just been put in charge of Gobbotopia, which seems to be in pretty good shape, having just crushed its resistance and establishing trade and everything.

So basically, Jirix has been pretty much left alone in charge of Gobbotopia, and has a lot of resources at his disposal. What does he intend to do with them, and will his nation thrive? Will he stick with the plan, or does the Prime Minister have his own agenda?

Maybe he just doesn't like roaches?

[Xelbiuj]

If he isn't stupid, continuing to build trade relations with other cities, fortifying and militarizing the city more (typical for hobos), working on getting his people educated in agriculture (if they aren't already, their valley towns were quite successful, raiding probably wouldn't support that many)

I imagine him screwing over Redcloak and turning regular goblins into second class citizens. I don't think he is, but it wouldn't be too far off for a typical* hobgoblin. I just don't think they share the same vision.

[Kiraxa]

I'm hoping Jirix fufills "The Plan", without any required deity intervention. A demi-human city that can sink or swim in the world without any deity-mandaged oppression. Hell, maybe he'll even open it to all races, now that Redcloak is out of the way, since Redcloak doesn't want equality, he wants to oppress humans.

[SoC175]

I'm hoping Jirix fufills "The Plan", without any required deity intervention. A demi-human city that can sink or swim in the world without any deity-mandaged oppression. Hell, maybe he'll even open it to all races, now that Redcloak is out of the way, since Redcloak doesn't want equality, he wants to oppress humans.Why should he? He's a servant of the Dark One as much as Redcloak. Why would he betray his own deity?

It's not as if Redcloak leaft Gobotopia in the hands of some secular ruler, he gave it to another priest of the Dark One

[Kiraxa]

Why should he? He's a servant of the Dark One as much as Redcloak. Why would he betray his own deity?

It's not as if Redcloak leaft Gobotopia in the hands of some secular ruler, he gave it to another priest of the Dark One

Jirix isn't a priest. He is a hobgoblin officer. When he died, he saw the armies of the Dark One, that doesn't mean he is a priest of the Dark One. If he achieves the Dark One's primary goal (equality for goblinoids), through creating a peaceful city that stands equal to humanoid cities, how would that betray his Deity?

[Morty]

I'm pretty sure he is a cleric. Before Redcloak made him Prime Minister, we see him wear a blue cloak like all the other hobgoblin clerics. Also, Xykon threatened Redcloak with giving the Crimson Mantle to him.

[Kiraxa]

I'm pretty sure he is a cleric. Before Redcloak made him Prime Minister, we see him wear a blue cloak like all the other hobgoblin clerics. Also, Xykon threatened Redcloak with giving the Crimson Mantle to him.

I stand corrected. I just looked back on the comics and hes wearing a holy symbol as well. But I still say hes not betraying the Dark One by pursuing an alternate means of The Plan.

[Math_Mage]

I stand corrected. I just looked back on the comics and hes wearing a holy symbol as well. But I still say hes not betraying the Dark One by pursuing an alternate means of The Plan.

The problem with this reasoning is that what Jirix would be doing if he weren't pursuing an alternate means of the Plan is exactly the same as what he would be doing if he were, so we have no way to say he's pursuing an alternate means of the Plan in the first place.

[137beth]

Didn't we have a thread exactly like this before:smallconfused:
No, Jirix is stopping a roach. How the heck does that lead people to think he is betraying...anyone?

Also, Jirix isn't involved with the plans for the gates.

[Demolator]

Didn't we have a thread exactly like this before:smallconfused:
No, Jirix is stopping a roach. How the heck does that lead people to think he is betraying...anyone?

Also, Jirix isn't involved with the plans for the gates.

The roach part was actually kind of a joke. I just wanted to see what people thought of whatever Jirix is doing in general. It'd be very interesting if he was betraying them though. Imagine Redcloak's face when he returns to Gobbotopia to find it renamed "Jirixland" and they worship Banjo and Giggles (although that would never happen).

[Luna_Mayflower]

You've just blown my mind.

[CRtwenty]

Jirix is loyal to the Dark One, the Goblin Race, and Redcloak. In that order. As the Ruler of Gobbotopia he's fulfilling the Dark One's plan by turning it into the most powerful Goblin Nation he is capable of.

I don't see him betraying Redcloak unless Redcloak betrays him or Gobbotopia first, which would be obscenely OOC for Redcloak.

[MartectX]

I'm pretty sure he is a cleric. Before Redcloak made him Prime Minister, we see him wear a blue cloak like all the other hobgoblin clerics. Also, Xykon threatened Redcloak with giving the Crimson Mantle to him.
Also, in the last book, The Giant commented on Jirix

...that in the author's mind he is the resurrected hobgoblin from the throne room scene (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0459.html).

[Joshtylor]

I am very much happy that somehow Jirix is loyal to someone and that he is doing well to.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Also, in the last book, The Giant commented on Jirix

...that in the author's mind he is the resurrected hobgoblin from the throne room scene (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0459.html).

Considering he was close to ground zero for the Gate-splosion, I'm kind of surprised they were able to find a recognizable piece of him for the resurrection.

[Ionbound]

I think Jirix is the contingency for the plan, the consolation prize, if you might. This way, even if RC fails at the plan due to those meddling adventurers/fiends/gods, at least there is still a self sufficient goblin nation floating around. They both still think the plan is better, but there's at least a backup.

[Flickerdart]

I automatically assume now that all off-screen characters in every medium are eating cereal (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2407).

[Lophotrochozoan]

At the moment? Being a civic leader.


For the long run, I think Jirix is going to have to evacuate the hobgoblins at Azure City. It may be possible that blowing up the other gates may further the growth of the rupture above Azure City which would lead to the either parts or all of the city being uninhabitable.

[David Argall]

Most likely Jirix will never be in the strip again beyond a brief aside or two

[Kiraxa]

Most likely Jirix will never be in the strip again beyond a brief aside or two

I dunno. The Giant has on multiple occasions expressed a very large distaste/disagreement with the "always evil" entries for beings. I could see him showing the city as it grows as a testament to "not always evil"

[Kilo24]

No, Jirix is stopping a roach. How the heck does that lead people to think he is betraying...anyone?
It's at opposition with the loyal-minion image that he was emphasizing. The demon roaches are constantly around the leaders of Team Evil, and waiting until right after those leaders leave to kill what's become a constant attachment to them shows that his leaders' presence was restricting his behavior. He may or may not be betraying them, but the spotlight Burlew put on that scene does suggest that he's taking the opportunity to express another side of his character.

[137beth]

It's at opposition with the loyal-minion image that he was emphasizing. The demon roaches are constantly around the leaders of Team Evil, and waiting until right after those leaders leave to kill what's become a constant attachment to them shows that his leaders' presence was restricting his behavior. He may or may not be betraying them, but the spotlight Burlew put on that scene does suggest that he's taking the opportunity to express another side of his character.

Redcloak doesn't like the roaches. He got annoyed at the MitD for attracting them.

[Kish]

Xykon might be petty and sadistic enough to demand the hobgoblins not kill roaches on sight, but I don't think even he would be quite that petty. And in any event Jirix has never claimed to be particularly loyal, as such, to Xykon.

Ew ew ew. Such disgusting things.

[Holy_Knight]

Keep in mind that Redcloak and Xykon have only been gone for about two days. Even if Jirix did have some kind of agenda to undermine them (which seems unlikely), it will probably be some time before it can really develop.

[David Argall]

I dunno. The Giant has on multiple occasions expressed a very large distaste/disagreement with the "always evil" entries for beings. I could see him showing the city as it grows as a testament to "not always evil"
a-what does that have to do with the Order? The comic is about the party and it will be busy with the gate. There just is much cause to show someone they have never met and won't.
B-The "not always evil" does not prevent routine use of routinely evil. Self-identification of the hobgoblins as evil is common, and their government is shown as evil. So the city has no great value as showing "not always evil".

[Kiraxa]

a-what does that have to do with the Order? The comic is about the party and it will be busy with the gate. There just is much cause to show someone they have never met and won't.
B-The "not always evil" does not prevent routine use of routinely evil. Self-identification of the hobgoblins as evil is common, and their government is shown as evil. So the city has no great value as showing "not always evil".

because the "not always evil" is one of the core things driving the comic. Its part of Redcloak's character motivation, as well as part of what "The Plan" is trying to fix. Jirix running Gob City in a non-evil manner, and being accepted by the rest of the world, would fulfill The Plan without any need of using the Snarl as leverage. I don't think its a coincidence that The Giant took the time to show that other governments are supporting Gob City, and I wouldn't be surprised if from time to time the growth of it would be mentioned/shown.

[Reddish Mage]

because the "not always evil" is one of the core things driving the comic. Its part of Redcloak's character motivation, as well as part of what "The Plan" is trying to fix. Jirix running Gob City in a non-evil manner, and being accepted by the rest of the world, would fulfill The Plan without any need of using the Snarl as leverage. I don't think its a coincidence that The Giant took the time to show that other governments are supporting Gob City, and I wouldn't be surprised if from time to time the growth of it would be mentioned/shown.

I tend to wonder why it would jive with what we know of gobbotopia to be run in an non-evil manner. Where is the incentive for Jirix to give up slavery? It would be nice to see the Golbins and humans living side by side in peace but wouldn't we need a story arc to explain a change in alignment in goblin society?

[Kiraxa]

I tend to wonder why it would jive with what we know of gobbotopia to be run in an non-evil manner. Where is the incentive for Jirix to give up slavery? It would be nice to see the Golbins and humans living side by side in peace but wouldn't we need a story arc to explain a change in alignment in goblin society?

Depending on what rule books you ask, Slavery is not inherently evil. Some say it is, some say it isn't. But other than that, the slavery policies were instituted by Redcloak, who (perhaps rightfully) hates all non-goblinoids, and until recently, hated all non-goblins. Jirix himself is Evil, but I could see him guiding the city into lawful neutrality so as to avoid pushing any groups into banding together and wiping Gob City off the map. Of course, this is just conjecture. I just think it'd be a more apropos method of handling The Plan in a way that doesn't create a humanoid version of Redcloak.

[Reddish Mage]

Depending on what rule books you ask, Slavery is not inherently evil. Some say it is, some say it isn't. But other than that, the slavery policies were instituted by Redcloak, who (perhaps rightfully) hates all non-goblinoids, and until recently, hated all non-goblins. Jirix himself is Evil, but I could see him guiding the city into lawful neutrality so as to avoid pushing any groups into banding together and wiping Gob City off the map. Of course, this is just conjecture. I just think it'd be a more apropos method of handling The Plan in a way that doesn't create a humanoid version of Redcloak.

While it would certainly jive with some ancient societies' views. Most indications are that D&D officially frown on slavery (a LG society in a sourcebook notwithstanding) and Rich used slavery in his post as to how humanoids CAN be depicted as good but in this case are not Saying a DM could depict orcs, whose behavior is as fringe of society raiders, as either chaotic good rebels or evil slavers.

[aldeayeah]

It wouldn't surprise me if his real intention were to exalt the hobgoblins and oppress other "lesser" goblinoids.

ALL GOBLINOIDS ARE EQUAL, BUT SOME GOBLINOIDS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS

[Emanick]

It wouldn't surprise me if his real intention were to exalt the hobgoblins and oppress other "lesser" goblinoids.

ALL GOBLINOIDS ARE EQUAL, BUT SOME GOBLINOIDS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS

I like this idea.

Yeah, this seems like one of the only plausible ways in which Jirix could wind up going against Redcloak's (assumed) wishes. I don't expect it to happen - I expect Gobbotopia's new leader to pioneer a sort of "Third Way" of goblinoid society, in which goblins gradually learn to coexist with other humanoids in a positive manner. But this is by no means certain, and it's perfectly possible that Jirix is a petty racist who believes in the supremacy of the hobgoblin race.

I definitely think the most recent panel he's been depicted in, the one in which he crushes the demon roach, is a pretty serious one. That action is so different from anything else we've ever seen from him, and the fact that he takes it the instant he's finally on his own is probably significant. I interpret it as a way of venting his anger against Xykon and everything he represents (it makes sense to associate the lich with the roach), but there are probably other ways to see it, too.

[TheWolfe]

I doubt Jirix will betray Redcloak. Jirix is loyal to the Dark One, who referred to RedCloak as his true prophet (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0704.html). I doubt he will betray his prophet, nor discriminate against regular goblins, since I doubt that's what the Dark One wants. Also, from the conversation in the same comic, it seems Jirix knows about the Plan, and knows the Dark One wants it to succeed, so again, I doubt he´ll oppose Redcloak.

It would be interesting if Gobbotopia became a free and cooperative nation, but that would take time. Such a thing would likely be outside the scope of this comic. Maybe it will be shown in an epilogue or something like that, but I don´t think it will become a major plot point.

[Emanick]

I doubt Jirix will betray Redcloak. Jirix is loyal to the Dark One, who referred to RedCloak as his true prophet (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0704.html). I doubt he will betray his prophet, nor discriminate against regular goblins, since I doubt that's what the Dark One wants. Also, from the conversation in the same comic, it seems Jirix knows about the Plan, and knows the Dark One wants it to succeed, so again, I doubt he´ll oppose Redcloak.

It would be interesting if Gobbotopia became a free and cooperative nation, but that would take time. Such a thing would likely be outside the scope of this comic. Maybe it will be shown in an epilogue or something like that, but I don´t think it will become a major plot point.

While I agree with you, to be fair Redcloak was both a loyal follower of the Dark One and a complete and utter racist against hobgoblins for several hundred strips. I don't think the two qualities are incompatible (they doubtless require some level of cognizant dissonance, but nothing beyond what Redcloak displayed).

[Math_Mage]

While I agree with you, to be fair Redcloak was both a loyal follower of the Dark One and a complete and utter racist against hobgoblins for several hundred strips. I don't think the two qualities are incompatible (they doubtless require some level of cognizant dissonance, but nothing beyond what Redcloak displayed).
A little harder to sustain racism against the race of the true prophet, though.

[Emanick]

A little harder to sustain racism against the race of the true prophet, though.

Yeah, that's true. Partly why I don't think the idea of Jirix as a racist is all that likely.

It's entirely possible that he has an as-yet-unrevealed resentment of Redcloak - the Supreme Leader DID treat hobgoblins like vermin for months; it's not that implausible - but yeah, not many signs are pointing to that as a likely scenario.

[Toy Killer]

I don't know, to me, it that panel seems awfully foreboding.

I think it could be part of the grand finale; Where Red Cloak is forced to show where his Loyalties lie. We're getting a lot of tension between Red Cloak and Xykon, and while we know that Red Cloak is the self proclaimed prophet of the Dark One, we only have his account, he made in front of his superior after he was resurrected by said superior.

I believe that it's just as likely that he's as loyal to Red cloak as Red Cloak is to Xykon. Working collaboratively for the power that Red Cloak would otherwise just sit on. With the last gate lost, (Which I'm personally convinced will happen) and discussing with Xykon what to do, if he were to get a sending from another goblin talking about how his city has fallen into the wrong hands, he would be forced to either leave Xykon on his own, or leave his people behind. Great dramatic tension available for either option really.

[Sylian]

Consider this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0548.html) strip; Doesn't Jirix seem a bit eager to have Redcloak and Xykon leave?

[137beth]

Consider this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0548.html) strip; Doesn't Jirix seem a bit eager to have Redcloak and Xykon leave?

No, he seems eager to prove his dependability to Redcloak.

[Sir_Leorik]

because the "not always evil" is one of the core things driving the comic.

I agree with you up to a point. One of the themes of the comic (especially in SoD) has been that Humanoids (whether Goblin, Hobgoblin, Orc, Lizardfolk, Kobold, Elf, Dwarf, Halfling, Gnome or Human), Dragons, and other intelligent monsters with souls, are not inherently Evil. They have free will, and can choose not be Evil. The best examples of that are O-Chul's conversations with the MitD, V's realization of the enormity of what she did when she cast familicide and Right-Eye's story arc in SoD.


Its part of Redcloak's character motivation, as well as part of what "The Plan" is trying to fix. Jirix running Gob City in a non-evil manner, and being accepted by the rest of the world, would fulfill The Plan without any need of using the Snarl as leverage. I don't think its a coincidence that The Giant took the time to show that other governments are supporting Gob City, and I wouldn't be surprised if from time to time the growth of it would be mentioned/shown.

Spoilers for SoD:
I think that Redcloak has a lot in common with The Dark One, notably a burning desire for revenge that clouds their desire to do what is right for the Goblinoids. Redcloak wants to avenge his mother, older brother and baby sister, along with his mentor and everyone else from his village, while the Dark One wants to avenge his own murder, as well as the countless Goblins, Hobgoblins and Bugbears who were killed by adventurers (especially Clerics) for XP with the approval of the gods. If they really wanted to help Goblinkind, they'd forget about the Plan and turn Gobbotopia into a cultural and trading center. They could act as go betweens for Human cities like Cliffport and Greysky City and Humanoid tribes, like Orcs, Ogres, even Giants, taking a cut of the proceeds. It seems clear that Cliffport is turning a blind eye to the slavery in Gobbotopia, while Greysky City probably wants a piece of the action.

Of course Xykon would take issue with Redcloak abandoning the Plan, assuming Redcloak could get past his sunk cost fallacy in the first place. Without the Plan, I don't think Redcloak would be able to live with himself, not after his murder of Right-Eye.

[Chronos]

More SoD spoilers:
Redcloak's brother Right-Eye already tried building a functional, peaceful Goblin society the hard way, from the ground up and without divine intervention... And he was mostly successful, until Xykon showed up and enslaved the lot of them. I suspect Jirix is doing something similar, and it'll leave Redcloak with an interesting choice if he's actually successful.
Also note the Dark One's last message to Redcloak: "Don't screw this up". It's delightfully vague: Redcloak thinks it means "Don't screw up The Plan for the Gates by dawdling about too much in the city", but maybe it actually means "Don't screw up this fledgling goblin city that finally seems to have a chance of success by going and destroying the whole world".

[Sir_Leorik]

Also note the Dark One's last message to Redcloak: "Don't screw this up". It's delightfully vague: Redcloak thinks it means "Don't screw up The Plan for the Gates by dawdling about too much in the city", but maybe it actually means "Don't screw up this fledgling goblin city that finally seems to have a chance of success by going and destroying the whole world".

Well that is the $64,000 question: does the Dark One care more about getting revenge, or is he looking out for the welfare of the Goblinoids? If it's the latter, than he really needs to reconsider The Plan.

[137beth]

More SoD spoilers:
Redcloak's brother Right-Eye already tried building a functional, peaceful Goblin society the hard way, from the ground up and without divine intervention... And he was mostly successful, until Xykon showed up and enslaved the lot of them. I suspect Jirix is doing something similar, and it'll leave Redcloak with an interesting choice if he's actually successful.
Also note the Dark One's last message to Redcloak: "Don't screw this up". It's delightfully vague: Redcloak thinks it means "Don't screw up The Plan for the Gates by dawdling about too much in the city", but maybe it actually means "Don't screw up this fledgling goblin city that finally seems to have a chance of success by going and destroying the whole world".

Well, I suppose it is still fairly direct as far as theological revelations go:smalltongue:

[LuisDantas]

A little harder to sustain racism against the race of the true prophet, though.

"The Dark One chose a member of that inferior race perhaps in order to teach us obedience and humility... but that does not mean I must put up with them or pretend that they are equal to us!"

It is really easy, and even happens often enough in the real world, at least according to some.