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JeenLeen
2013-07-11, 01:09 PM
I'm thinking about the possibility of a game where the players play multiple characters in the same world/universe/multiverse, each at different levels of power and influence and possibly with different initial goals.

This could be handled somewhat like the game Suikoden 3, where the 3 (or 4, sort of) main characters start with completely different quests, sometimes in conflict with each other to a small degree, but eventually converge to the same mission, but instead of all being of roughly equivalent power (at least by the time they meet up), they stay different. Like a D&D game where you have a level 1, a level 6, and a level 12-16 PC, each with different yet intersecting goals.

Another idea is for them to be on different planes of reality, but that their actions on one impact another, or they eventually meet. (Perhaps one high fantasy, one low fantasy, and one mundane.)

Obviously, I don't have a plot worked out, but I'm wondering if anyone has played a game like this or had advice on problematic areas. Also, any advice on systems that would work well or bad for this. We've mostly done D&D and oWoD (and I could see lifting the d10 system but changing the fluff and using homebrewed powers instead of Disciplines/Spheres/etc).

Grinner
2013-07-11, 01:16 PM
I'm thinking about the possibility of a game where the players play multiple characters in the same world/universe/multiverse, each at different levels of power and influence and possibly with different initial goals.

This could be handled somewhat like the game Suikoden 3, where the 3 (or 4, sort of) main characters start with completely different quests, sometimes in conflict with each other to a small degree, but eventually converge to the same mission, but instead of all being of roughly equivalent power (at least by the time they meet up), they stay different. Like a D&D game where you have a level 1, a level 6, and a level 12-16 PC, each with different yet intersecting goals.

Ars Magica does this, though you're limited to medieval Europe by default.


Another idea is for them to be on different planes of reality, but that their actions on one impact another, or they eventually meet. (Perhaps one high fantasy, one low fantasy, and one mundane.)

Cool idea. Sort of like the Chessboards of JAGS Wonderland, then?

JeenLeen
2013-07-11, 01:20 PM
Cool idea. Sort of like the Chessboards of JAGS Wonderland, then?

I'm unfamiliar with this. What is it?

--

Ars Magica could be cool. I've never played or looked at it, but from the little I've read it sounds interesting.

Grinner
2013-07-11, 01:38 PM
I'm unfamiliar with this. What is it?

There's a system called JAGS. The author made a setting for it based on Wonderland where there are seven or eight alternate realities called Chessboards. Mundane people live on Chessboard One, but there are multiples of everyone in the other Chessboards. The problem is that they're insane by our standards, and if you travel down into the other Chessboards, your clone there switches places with you.

You can get it here (http://www.jagsrpg.org/). It's an interesting book, but its incomprehensibility renders it useless for anything but light reading.


Ars Magica could be cool. I've never played or looked at it, but from the little I've read it sounds interesting.

The 4th Edition (http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=AG0204) is free, so give it a look.

Kazemi
2013-07-12, 01:20 AM
Be careful when you're doing this. The reason most games play with all the PCs at the same level is because it's just not as fun to play a lvl 1 Fighter when there's a lvl 16 Wizard in the party. You want to make sure that each character can participate fully, whether that be due to versatility of spells, sheer physical prowess, or vast social network. Even if the characters are of "obviously" lower level, getting them unique social or homebrew supernatural powers can really make the difference.

The thought I keep coming up with is a high level fighter and a low level cleric. The cleric has connections throughout the church and is in charge of a particular hunt. He's hired the fighter as a merc in exchange for gold, information, access to a forbidden area, etc.

Also, watch out for the lvl16 character. If he decides to take complete control of the party due to just being stronger than the others and threatening them with death, the other players are going to be less than satisfied.

Other than that, good luck!

Fighter1000
2013-07-12, 04:29 AM
I love Pathfinder or D&D 3.5 campaigns where the PCs start at different levels! It feels more realistic, and awesome. The unbalanceness is more to my liking as a DM. One strategy is to make sure the PCs do not know the level of the other PCs.

Arcane_Snowman
2013-07-12, 06:56 AM
Ars Magica could be cool. I've never played or looked at it, but from the little I've read it sounds interesting. 5th edition is by far the more comprehensive, but unlike 4th isn't free.

You have 3 tiers of characters, Magi, Companions and Grogs:
Magi are by default a Mage of the Order of Hermes, but some of the supplements do include alternatives, and are the "main characters" of the campaign. Being both the most powerful and the most important in terms of the story.

Companions are more or less exactly what it says on the tin, secondary characters that accompany mages on their various endeavors, but also have stories of their own.

Grogs are essentially Redshirts, disposable characters that can be thrown at a problem, as well as allowing a player to participate in the adventure should their mage or companion not want to participate.

Ars is centered around a covenant, which is a congregation of mages, who have decided to band together for whatever reason and are trying to make a life. What they individually want to do may vary greatly, so there's room for a great deal of different stories to be told as each player can participate with a character and at the same time pursue their own goals.

Biggest obstacle for Ars is the fact that the rules system is a bit dense in places, and does require a fair amount of book keeping.

JeenLeen
2013-07-12, 08:23 AM
Be careful when you're doing this. The reason most games play with all the PCs at the same level is because it's just not as fun to play a lvl 1 Fighter when there's a lvl 16 Wizard in the party. You want to make sure that each character can participate fully, whether that be due to versatility of spells, sheer physical prowess, or vast social network. Even if the characters are of "obviously" lower level, getting them unique social or homebrew supernatural powers can really make the difference.

The thought I keep coming up with is a high level fighter and a low level cleric. The cleric has connections throughout the church and is in charge of a particular hunt. He's hired the fighter as a merc in exchange for gold, information, access to a forbidden area, etc.

Also, watch out for the lvl16 character. If he decides to take complete control of the party due to just being stronger than the others and threatening them with death, the other players are going to be less than satisfied.

Other than that, good luck!

Actually, what I'm thinking of is the players controlling 2-3 parties of PCs, with each party having a different power level.

For example, they might have a group of level 1 newbies (in D&D) or grogs/companions (Arcs Magica), a group of mid-level guys (5-10; beginning magi), and a group of high-level (16 or so; accomplished magi). The groups don't interact, at least directly (though their actions impact one another) and at first.

I was inspired by this post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=291555), which is what I think you're talking about, but what I'm looking for is a different idea.

Doorhandle
2013-07-13, 01:06 AM
Actually, what I'm thinking of is the players controlling 2-3 parties of PCs, with each party having a different power level.

For example, they might have a group of level 1 newbies (in D&D) or grogs/companions (Arcs Magica), a group of mid-level guys (5-10; beginning magi), and a group of high-level (16 or so; accomplished magi). The groups don't interact, at least directly (though their actions impact one another) and at first.

I was inspired by this post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=291555), which is what I think you're talking about, but what I'm looking for is a different idea.

So, basically 3 different parties at different levels, but controlled by the same players, and if the high-level party accidently makes a volcano, the mid-level party is sent to clean up? Sounds good.

Kazemi
2013-07-13, 01:07 AM
Oh! I think I see what you're getting at. So at any given time the players all have about the same level and after a bit of plot they switch over to a different power level and continue the story at a different location with different characters. That's actually a pretty awesome idea for a change in pace of the standard game. I think I saw a blurb on it in my Draconomicon or AEG's Dragons book regarding a method of playing with Dragon PCs. I'll paraphrase their advice for you in the next couple of days if you'd like.

------------

If the above is accurate, I'd say 1) make sure your players are experienced enough to be able to use lvl16 Magi properly when they get up that far and 2) make sure they're fully aware that they shouldn't grow incredibly attached to any one character. Especially if that character may die.

The role playing aspect is also unique with this.

I think I'll try this idea one day in Flashback form.

Strong: lvl 16 magi who are investigating the city's demise. The diviner initiates a flashback.
Weak: lvl1 Guards who hear something go *bump* in the night.
Strong: Continue their search. Diviner initiates the next flashback.
Mid: lvl7 Adventurers enter a recently unearthed tomb in search for treasure.
Etc, etc.

JeenLeen
2013-07-13, 08:20 PM
After looking at the systems, I'm currently contemplating something like this (my players stay out)

Using the Wonderland setting (modified as needed) , if not the system (probably use a homebrewed mechanics me and a friend have worked on, basically a d10 all at difficulty 6, sort of based off nWoD):

Plot: the lower elements of Wonderland are emerging more and more on earth. This is beginning to manifest primarily as 'zombies' as Reflections go crazy and start attacking people.

1) low-level average Joes. A party of Infected who recently discovered the Underground. As the game progresses, they will eventually go to Chessboards 1-3, and (ideally) defeat the 'person' in Chessboard 3 that is trying to lead a major incursion into reality.
These are the main characters, in a sense. It is they that will defeat the final boss, but how the other teams succeed or fail will have consequences.

2) mid-power. A party of special ops trained by the government to help meet and cover up the new threat. They know the Underground is related, but can't tell if it's a cult posing as a self-help group and really trying to spread the event or actually legit.
This government has developed mental training that basically makes one immune/resistant to Infection, essentially 'Doublethink' that lets you fight the Impossible without believing it. (A borrow from oWoD Mage's Technocracy's mental conditioning.) They'll have good stats to start, as well as powers granted by supertech.
Importance: helping keep down the incursions from Wonderland and stem the rate of Infection. If they fail enough, it becomes widely known (leading to more Infection), leading both to police shutdowns of the Underground (making it harder for team 1 to operate on Chessboard 0) and leading to more strength/influence for the big bad (making it harder to defeat him on Chessboard 3).

3) high-power. Actually on the 4th Chessboard (or whatever deep one manifests as a fey-like realm where dramas play out), as far as the players know this is a mythic high-fantasy place. Not sure how to use the system, but the PCs were created to help fight a darkness from beneath (lower levels) that is trying to reach the heavens (Chessboard 0). I'm considering having them actually be the Shadows of team 2, which the Doublethink training caused to be shunted down from Chessboard 1 to deeper, and these are now the Shadows of the concept of fighting against the Infection.
Importance: if they fail, it gets a lot more screwed up on earth.

It will probably go 1-2 missions/story arcs with each party, rotating. The mechanics are the same, except each will have access to different powers: Twistings for party 1, supertech for 2, and... mythic powers for 3, I guess. Could have some cool things like when a boss fought by party 1 is a common creature where party 3 dwells, and their disparity of powers makes it that such is easy for party 3 to defeat.

DefKab
2013-07-14, 08:40 AM
I actually had a system in place once. The player's characters were sent to discover a new world, but after they had built up a large repetoire of Classed NPC's. I tracked which NPCs the characters prefered, and when the opportunity arrised, I would provide the players with a character sheet of their favorite NPCs. The plan was that the players characters started off low level, and they'd sometimes get to play as the more powerful NPCs, and then when they'd reach high levels, the NPCs (being less played) would then be lower than them, to put the fear of death back in them.

It let me deal with some over-arching campaign ideas that affected 'The New World' and their homeland at the same time, having their NPCs deal with the homefront conflicts, and built up more love for the NPCs. Of course, they could always 'favor' different NPCs to try and get them to play the next time I switched venues. I didn't get to do it often, but it seems like a solid way to spice up a slowing campaign, or tell multiple arching stories at the same time.