Fighting Wizard Build Help

[Jak]

Before the replies start, I'm going to go ahead and say that I realize this is crazy, that there are so many other classes that could do this better than the wizard. But it has to be a wizard, and not any other class other than racial paragon class levels.

Now that we have that out of the way, here's the skinny, I need help building a semi front lines close/medium range wizard. Preferably focusing on one style or theme of magic, (such as fire magic, teleporting/ travel magic, or transformations.) He doesn't have to be a tank (although that would be bad ass and highly encouraged) but he needs to be at least as involved as a rouge, ranger, or monk-ish character. Also, I'm not expecting this to be a tier one character, just at least tier 3 or 3.5.

The rules are:

1. Only wiz(z)ard class levels, racial paragon class levels, wizard variant, racial variant, and full spell casting prestige classes are allowed.

2. Try to stick to a particular spell theme (this one is a little flexible)

3. Items should be icing on the cake, not what the build relies on, unless the item is fairly mundane, like a weapon, or even a staff.



Thank you in advance, I look forward to seeing giantitp's creative side =)



Edit*

Also, I forgot to mention, he needs to be mostly effective at what he does by level 8 or 9.

[Spuddles]

Use partial BAB.
Wizard5/incantatrix3/Dragonslayer1/Spellsword1/Abjurant Champion5/Wizard3

Dragonslayer gets you +1 BAB and prof with all weapons & armor.

Feats:
Iron Will (Otyugh Hole)
Extend Spell
Persistent Spell
Arcane Disciple: War (use persistent divine power to get the BAB to qualify for prestige classes)
Dodge
Combat casting
Arcane Strike
Power Attack

Play a gray elf and dump constitution. Become a necropolitan ASAP- changes your HD to d12s. Have the process performed on a desecrated altar by a dread necromancer of level 8 or greater. You now have 1d12+4 HP per level.

Put up the following spells; use persistent spell where applicable:
Bite of the Werebear (persist)
Bite of the Weretiger (persist)
Luminous Armor
Polymorph
Haste
Heart of Water
Heart of Air
Heart of Fire
Heart of Earth
Overland Flight
Divine Power (persist)
Wraithstrike (persist)
Heroics (can be used for early entry to pick up fighter feats)

Polymorph into a war troll (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040815b&page=6)

You now have full BAB, an average 10.5HP per level, everything you hit with your weapon forces a stun based on your str score, a str score of 46. You've got 30 natural armor (turn it into a deflection bonus with scintillating scales), 8 armor from luminous armor (and melee attacks take a -4 penalty). All your attacks are vs. touch AC.

You also fly, still have a bunch of wizard spells around, immunity to crits (twice over- once from undead type, once from heart of X spells), and can escape grapples, get a stoneskin effect, etc., thanks to the heart of X spells.

Sufficient?

Oh yeah, and the bulk of this build comes line as early as level 8.

If you have to hit things from level 1, get a longspear. Use spells like fist of stone (1 minute +6 str, first level), mage armor (+4 armor), luminous armor (+5 armor, melee attackers have a -4 penalty to hit you), shield (+4 shield bonus), wriathstrike, and heroics.

[Jak]

Very interesting, a bit more complex than what I had in mind, but very nice. Thanks for the input, I may not use the necropolitan template, but the rest checks out fine. Another thing I forgot to mention, probably 32 point buy, and probably 1 or 2 flaws.

[Vaz]

Consider this; Dwarf Wizard 3/Stoneblessed 3/Runesmith 5/Incantatrix 3/Shadowcraft Mage 5/Archmage 1

Between Persistent Tensers Tranformation and the number of SLA's you have (2 for each spell slot), you can Gish away and still do your magic'y thing in combat in a pinch, while having the option to just go all out Shadowcraft Mage abuse.

Edit@ Spuddles; where are you picking up the Druid Spells in that build?

[eggynack]

Spuddles; where are you picking up the Druid Spells in that build?
It looks like all of the spells are accounted for. Bite of the were X are on the wizard list, though of a higher level. Heart of X is the at the same level on both lists, and divine power is granted by arcane disciple (war).

@ Jak: The incantrix build is amazing, but if you're seeking a tier three build, it might not be what you want. The whole thing is at those upper reaches of tier one where I could be half convinced that it deserves a tier bump. It doesn't, because that's the place for TO, but it's about as far as you can get from a suboptimal build. I guess you can play it badly, but you're never going to actually be a tier three.

Edit: Actually, why does that build have weretiger and werebear on it? It looks like the difference between having just werebear, and having both, is pretty marginal. I suspect that the intent is to pick one or the other, based on available spells and level, but that's not super clear.

[Spuddles]

The biggest problem with wizard melee builds are small HD. Necropolitan takes care of that, but if that's not on the table, false life and heart of earth are decent sources of temp HP.


Edit@ Spuddles; where are you picking up the Druid Spells in that build?

At wizard 9 and wizard 11.



Edit: Actually, why does that build have weretiger and werebear on it? It looks like the difference between having just werebear, and having both, is pretty marginal. I suspect that the intent is to pick one or the other, based on available spells and level, but that's not super clear.

Oh, good point. I thought bite of weretiger gave pounce. It also looks like power attack isn't really necessary, thanks to bite of werebear.

Weretiger is available two levels earlier, though.

[Jak]

It looks like all of the spells are accounted for. Bite of the were X are on the wizard list, though of a higher level. Heart of X is the at the same level on both lists, and divine power is granted by arcane disciple (war).

@ Jak: The incantrix build is amazing, but if you're seeking a tier three build, it might not be what you want. The whole thing is at those upper reaches of tier one where I could be half convinced that it deserves a tier bump. It doesn't, because that's the place for TO, but it's about as far as you can get from a suboptimal build. I guess you can play it badly, but you're never going to actually be a tier three.

Edit: Actually, why does that build have weretiger and werebear on it? It looks like the difference between having just werebear, and having both, is pretty marginal. I suspect that the intent is to pick one or the other, based on available spells and level, but that's not super clear.

It doesn't have to be tier 3, I'm just saying plays like a tier 3 character or better. Also, what sort of weapons? Any unarmed or gauntlet ideas?

[eggynack]

It doesn't have to be tier 3, I'm just saying plays like a tier 3 character or better. Also, what sort of weapons? Any unarmed or gauntlet ideas?
Fair enough, I guess. Anyway, I'd figure that you'd just use a greatsword, at least at level nine. You have a high strength, so two handing is about as sweet as ever. I'd generally advise against unarmed fighting methods, unless being unarmed means that you're using natural weapons. It's just a bad idea in general. His build suggests using a longspear, which is a perfectly fine choice until you get full martial proficiency at nine. After that, martial options are generally strictly superior.

Edit: Actually, replace the greatsword with a guisarme. The two extra damage isn't worth the loss of reach and stuff.

[Spuddles]

I would go with reach at low levels. Wizards can be really good at grappling, if they want to be. Requires a lot of spell investment, though, so they can't really grapple that well all day.

If you are starting out at level 8, persistent spell abuse of course will change that. Fist of Stone is a pretty decent option to make all day, simply because it's basically a magic item worth 36,000gp.

Note that Luminous Armor can only be cast on Good targets, which might be a bummer.

[morkendi]

If I remember right, you can take any wizard to 8th, do one lvl of spell sword, and then go abjurent champion. With the pre req on killing an opponent only using a martial weapon, being an elf gets you longsword and bow. Easy to kill an PRC or goblin with a bow at low level and get closer into melee later. You can sub in the racial paragon if you want.

You loose 3 bab by lvl 20, but full wizard progression and cl with better HD.

[ahenobarbi]

Gray Elf, Elven Generalist Domain Wizard 9.
Obtain creature with high physical stats (for example were-tiger cave troll). Pay someone to Mindrape it so it will not resist to you possessing it. Cast extended magic jar, posses it. Put your body in a well-protected box and carry it on your back. Proceed smashing.

And don't forget to use remaing wealth on box protection and spells for buffs.

Troll body would look something like (in hybrid form)

HD: 15d8 + 165 (232 average)
Str, Dex, Con: 41, 17, 33
AC: 31 (-1 size, +13 natural, +3 dex, +6 [mage] armor)
Speed 40ft
Full Attack: 4claws, bite
Special attacks: Dazing blow (enemy hit by both claws makes fort DC 25 or is dazed), Improved Grab (free grapple if bite hits), Pounce (full attack after charge), Rake (2 rake attacks if you grapple), Rend( extra damage if both claws hit).
DR 5/silver

EDIT:I forgot fast healing 8

And ECL of that body is 23, making it an epic troll :smallcool:

[Jak]

These all look really good. Thanks for all the ideas guys =)

Last thing, any ideas for an evoker or transmuter?

[eggynack]

These all look really good. Thanks for all the ideas guys =)

Last thing, any ideas for an evoker or transmuter?
A good number of these ideas are transmutation based. I dunno if evocation really works with fighting type wizards. If you're talking about a general transmutation build, I'd advise looking at Treantmonk's guide to wizards (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=394.0). It has a pretty standard transmutation build, and a good guide to spells. The spell section also gives a decent argument for evokers not being completely useless, so that's worth a look as well.

[iDesu]

The biggest problem with wizard melee builds are small HD. Necropolitan takes care of that, but if that's not on the table, false life and heart of earth are decent sources of temp HP.

You could probably take Faerie Mysteries Initiate as well and just throw a large pile of HP, right?

[Zonugal]

For a bit more unorthodox you could try out something like:

Desert Half-Orc Wizard 1/Half-Orc Paragon 2/Wizard 4/Rage Mage 10/Abjurant Champion 3
BaB +14; CL 13

It isn't the greatest build in the world (because Rage Mage is terrible) but it is something different.

[Andion Isurand]

I would pick sun elf as your race (-2 con, +2 int) and add the arctic template for (+2 con, -2 Cha).

I would go for the fighter feat variant wizard, and pick Martial Study (searing blade) instead of Scribe Scroll. This way Tumble is always a class skill for you, and you have a useful maneuver for melee combat that you can use once per encounter.

As for other feats that might help, the Minor Shapeshift reserve feat is a good one for gaining temporary hit points equal to your hit dice, that you can gain/replenish with a swift action. Each use lasts for a number of rounds equal to the highest level polymorph spell you have available to cast.

The Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) PrC is also something thats worth looking at.