Melodic Casting Interpretation?

[Pandyman]

Ok, so obviously Melodic Casting allows you to cast spells during a bardic music, but fluff wise it can basically be used as silent/still spell metamagic feats without the increase to the spell level, because both your mouth and hands are busy with the performance most of the times.

Say I use perform Act to make use of melodic casting. I need my hands/mouth for convincing acting, so the spell goes off without me needing to make hand motions or chanting any words. So say I'm tied up and my mouth is covered; if I perform(act) like I'm trapped can I still cast spells, or do i pay attention to the fact that I'm unable to make somatic/verbal components. Say I'm tied up and my mouth isn't covered; if I can sing, can i still cast spells with semantic components?

What are the interpretations on this?

[Deophaun]

No.

Fluffwise, you are not ignoring the verbal and somatic components. Instead, you are incorporating the verbal and somatic components into your bardic music performance. You still need to be able to speak for verbal and move for somatic. If you can't do either, then you do not have the freedom to use your melodic casting.

[Psyren]

Melodic Casting does not change the general rule that all bardic spells have a verbal component. It merely lets you supply that component while performing. If you are unable to speak in a clear voice (e.g. gagged), the type of performance you do does not matter, you will still be unable to provide a verbal component.

[Pandyman]

That makes sense rule wise, so I'd agree. Then how does someone using Perform(mime) provide the verbal components?

[Psyren]

That makes sense rule wise, so I'd agree. Then how does someone using Perform(mime) provide the verbal components?

By speaking. A mime can speak, even though it doesn't necessarily enhance their performance. :smalltongue:

[Perseus]

Instead of casting a spell where you say "layer upon layer make your mark. haste!" while waving your hands in a weird way...

You instead sing "Devil went down to Georgia" while doing a jig.

The singing is the new verbal and the jig is the new somatic component.

[Pandyman]

Instead of casting a spell where you say "layer upon layer make your mark. haste!" while waving your hands in a weird way...

You instead sing "Devil went down to Georgia" while doing a jig.

The singing is the new verbal and the jig is the new somatic component.

This is obviously the answer i was looking for, because mimes can't talk. lol

But yeah, that's actually a good answer. Maybe for a mime one hand is verbal and the other hand is somatic components. lol

[Lord Haart]

He still has to convincingly picture talking, and he can't do that if he's gagged or if the audience knows he's under Silence effect.

[Psyren]

This is obviously the answer i was looking for, because mimes can't talk. lol

But yeah, that's actually a good answer. Maybe for a mime one hand is verbal and the other hand is somatic components. lol

It's also wrong. Again, Melodic Casting does not remove the requirement of speaking in a clear voice to provide a verbal component. It simply lets you do so while performing. The type of your performance does not matter, you must use your voice to provide bardic spells.

[Pandyman]

It's also wrong. Again, Melodic Casting does not remove the requirement of speaking in a clear voice to provide a verbal component. It simply lets you do so while performing. The type of your performance does not matter, you must use your voice to provide bardic spells.

Rules wise makes sense, but it wouldn't be able to be integrated into a mime performance. Mime performances are defined by body acting without talking. Talking to cast the spell would ruin the performance.

It also makes wind instrumentalists incapable of making use of this feat, because they can't speak and play at the same time.

[Deophaun]

Rules wise makes sense, but it wouldn't be able to be integrated into a mime performance. Mime performances are defined by body acting without talking. Talking to cast the spell would ruin the performance.
Fortunately, with the exception of the fascinate or suggestion uses of bardic music, you do not have to use the Perform skill you trained in to activate bardic music.

Unfortunately, a mime performance in-and-of itself is inappropriate for bardic music, because an almost universal requirement is that the subjects must be able to hear the bard. So, bards trying to inspire confidence through mime already fail.

[Perseus]

Rules wise makes sense, but it wouldn't be able to be integrated into a mime performance. Mime performances are defined by body acting without talking. Talking to cast the spell would ruin the performance.

Totally missed you was playing a mime.

Since you are a mime... I wonder if ventriloquism could work? Either the spell or make it a perform skill.

You are making two perform checks. Perform (mime) and Perform (ventriloquism) as part of your act.

Make the verbal component whatever you want (maybe a "yeeeeeaaah you go mime" or "hey everyone look at this badass mime!")

[Psyren]

The effectiveness of the performance is not a requirement. Just as you can tell terrible jokes with Perform (Comedy), sing off-key with Perform (Sing), have a clubfoot with Perform (Dance) etc., you can poorly mime with Perform (Mime) by speaking. Your perform check will likely fail to do whatever you were trying to do, but the spell will still go off.

[Pandyman]

Fortunately, with the exception of the fascinate or suggestion uses of bardic music, you do not have to use the Perform skill you trained in to activate bardic music.

Unfortunately, a mime performance in-and-of itself is inappropriate for bardic music, because an almost universal requirement is that the subjects must be able to hear the bard. So, bards trying to inspire confidence through mime already fail.

You need to perform for inspire courage, which is really my favorite use of bardic music anyways. The 3.5 should really read as witnessing the performance, but RAW it does disclude miming.



Make the verbal component whatever you want (maybe a "yeeeeeaaah you go mime" or "hey everyone look at this badass mime!")

That is definitely a winning suggestion. lol I'll definitely do that.

But by the current interpretation, any wind instrumental players would need to stop performing to speak the verbal components, which doesn't seem like the way the feat was meant to be read.

[Perseus]

You need to perform for inspire courage, which is really my favorite use of bardic music anyways. The 3.5 should really read as witnessing the performance, but RAW it does disclude miming.



That is definitely a winning suggestion. lol I'll definitely do that.

But by the current interpretation, any wind instrumental players would need to stop performing to speak the verbal components, which doesn't seem like the way the feat was meant to be read.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XRZ-jLOrFfk

The mime will be you, the band will be your party members and the singing will come from your ventriloquism.

[Grod_The_Giant]

But by the current interpretation, any wind instrumental players would need to stop performing to speak the verbal components, which doesn't seem like the way the feat was meant to be read.
"I hit the same notes as the command word during my flute solo!"

More seriously, the Bard's Spells entry says "Every bard spell has a verbal component (singing, reciting, or music)." Sounds to me like RAW the spell component of Irresistible Dance could be a lively jig.

[Psyren]

But by the current interpretation, any wind instrumental players would need to stop performing to speak the verbal components, which doesn't seem like the way the feat was meant to be read.

Not necessarily - breaks are part of a performance too. There are points in a speech or song where the performer pauses, or points in a dance where the dancer stops moving, but the performance as a whole is not said to be over. Melodic Casting makes it so that the supernatural benefits of the performance continue even while you stop to provide a verbal component to a spell.

[Pandyman]

Not necessarily - breaks are part of a performance too. There are points in a speech or song where the performer pauses, or points in a dance where the dancer stops moving, but the performance as a whole is not said to be over. Melodic Casting makes it so that the supernatural benefits of the performance continue even while you stop to provide a verbal component to a spell.

Touche, i think that covers all the performs that are important then. lol


More seriously, the Bard's Spells entry says "Every bard spell has a verbal component (singing, reciting, or music)." Sounds to me like RAW the spell component of Irresistible Dance could be a lively jig.

Some spells that works, but melodic casting allows the casting of nonbard spells during a bardic music, as well as the activation of items and whatnot. Also, perform instead of concentration is good on bards.

Assuming you can cast non-bard spells normally.

[Deophaun]

You need to perform for inspire courage...
No.

You need 3 ranks in a Perform skill, but it does not require a perform check or any attempt at performance. It just requires that people hear you.

[Pandyman]

No.

You need 3 ranks in a Perform skill, but it does not require a perform check or any attempt at perforce. It just requires that people hear you.

"A bard with 3 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use song or poetics to inspire courage in his allies" A song or poetics refers to some sort of performance.

[Deophaun]

"A bard with 3 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use song or poetics to inspire courage in his allies" A song or poetics refers to some sort of performance.
And what happens if you have a -5 Cha modifier, 0 ranks in the perform skill you're using (Perform (accordion)), are under a Bestow Curse to give you an addition -6 on all perform checks, are using a cursed accordion that gives you an additional -10, and you roll a 1?

You still inspire courage.

The only things that mean anything is that bardic music takes a standard action to activate, and people hear you. The fact that a -infinity result on a skill check still suffices means that the skill isn't necessary. A rule without consequence is no rule at all.

[Pandyman]

And what happens if you have a -5 Cha modifier, 0 ranks in the perform skill you're using (Perform (accordion)), are under a Bestow Curse to give you an addition -6 on all perform checks, are using a cursed accordion that gives you an additional -10, and you roll a 1?

You still inspire courage.

The only things that mean anything is that bardic music takes a standard action to activate, and people hear you. The fact that a -infinity result on a skill check still suffices means that the skill isn't necessary. A rule without consequence is no rule at all.

But you still need to perform. I never said the quality of the performance matters.

[Deophaun]

But you still need to perform. I never said the quality of the performance matters.
Didn't someone say all life is a stage? Some bard or something?

So, that's taken care of: mere existence qualifies for the performance. Again, it's a rule without consequence, so it is not a rule.