[3.5] Making a grapple-focused character

[Ellrin]

Well, technically my friend is, but I appear to be doing all the work right now. The party seems to be really low-op, but since I've never really thought about doing a grapple character before, I'd like to know what the usual tricks of the trade are. I figure generally trying to increase size is the best idea, followed by increasing STR; but the idea for the character is, unfortunately, also stealth-based, so size increases are generally an impractical idea.

Yes, I know how bad that sounds.

So basically my question is: should I keep working on this, or give up and convince him to make a trip-focued build, instead? He's probably going to use a homebrew class to level 20 (which I'm also doing the brunt of the work on), but build suggestions are appreciated, anyway. I think he also has a race in mind, but suggestions for that won't be frowned on, either.

EDIT:
I forgot to mention the worst of it: the build needs to be mundane. So... ick.

[Glimbur]

What sources are you allowed? Totemist, from Magic of Incarnum, can be quite good at grappling. You would have to learn incarnum, which is badly explained and organized in the book. Google up an 'incarnum for dummies' thread. You can get some of their tricks with feats, which will be important since class is already set.

Bear Warrior is a PrC that is pretty nice for grappling, but again the class is already set.

What about temporary size increases? A wand of Enlarge Person for the party wizard can make you larger when it counts.

For race, a str bonus is nice. I can't think of any races offhand that have constrict attacks, which are also good for grappling. So, half-orc.

[Gavinfoxx]

Here ya go:

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=585

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870826/Black_Blood_Cultist_Handbook:_A_Grapplers_Manual

[eggynack]

How about a druid? Druids are always the answer, especially when you want grappling. In particular, the main advantage of druidic grappling is that they have the ability to summon. Spending turn after turn engaged in a grapple tends to put you on the wrong end of the action economy, but summoning a giant crocodile or using your bear AC to do it for you puts you on the right end of it.

Even if he wants to grapple personally, which is generally not the best plan, he can use both ends of wild shape in quick succession. In his normal form, he could go around as a small flying creature of some kind, and be stealthy. There are a lot of forms that work for that kind of situation, and the best one is on the variable side, but the point is that stealth is not a problem. Then, out of nowhere, the innocuous ceiling bird becomes a bear, and grapples the enemy from out of nowhere (mantle of the beast from Complete Champion page 140 lets you wild shape as a swift action, so he could change forms and grapple in the space of a surprise round).

I generally prefer the method where he's both stealthy and grappling at the same time, by using a flying form with at least good maneuverability, and summoning stuff. The point is, no matter what you want to do with grappling, druid is probably the right answer. It covers just about every aspect of grappling you've discussed and then some. Druids let you be a stealth based grappler with high strength, large size, and small size, essentially all at once. Those are some cool beans right there.

[Ellrin]

Edited to reflect, but I forgot to mention the build has to be mundane. The idea is sort of a... sambo special forces guerilla fighter. Thing.

[Ellrin]

Here ya go:

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=585

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870826/Black_Blood_Cultist_Handbook:_A_Grapplers_Manual

Thanks, I'll take a look through those.

[eggynack]

Edited to reflect, but I forgot to mention the build has to be mundane. The idea is sort of a... sambo special forces guerilla fighter. Thing.
*Sigh* The bear warrior option is probably best, then. You can use the regular form as the stealth guy, and the bear form as the grappling guy. Barbarians get pretty close to what you want anyway, and it's not too far out of your way. You could even go with a whisper gnome as the normal form, so that his stealth is maximized when he's not bearing about. The principle is the same as the druid plan, but it's obviously less good, because he's not a druid.

[Psyren]

Grappling without magic of some kind is just plain a bad idea. Well, it's fine at low levels when you're grappling orcs and things like that, but when you get up to dragons and aberrations and fiends - hell, even mid-level threats like giants and magical beasts will start giving you fits.

And relying on standard magic items (Belt of Giant Str etc.) won't cut it either - you need those just to keep pace, never mind being good.

[Ellrin]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought. I know this isn't really the right forum, but are there any reasonable options I could give the homebrew class I mentioned that would work with the concept and at least let the class keep up, or should I just tell him to give up and retool his combat options for tripping or something?

[Gavinfoxx]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought. I know this isn't really the right forum, but are there any reasonable options I could give the homebrew class I mentioned that would work with the concept and at least let the class keep up, or should I just tell him to give up and retool his combat options for tripping or something?

Did you NOT read those two handboosk? :( :(

[Ellrin]

So far I've more or less read the introduction to the first one. I haven't had a lot of time yet, but I'm going to read them in depth tomorrow.