Stealing and Buying Golems; Programming

[unseenmage]

When a character buys or steals a golem or other construct, what contingency-style commands should they watch out for?

What orders would The Playground give to their golems to stymie would be thieves?

What orders would The Playground give to their golems to undo contingency-style commands?

Is this even an issue? Should a DM spring these kinds of shenanigans on players looking to command golems?
Is this concept too deep in 'paranoid wizard mindset' territory?

Thanks regardless Playground.

[TuggyNE]

Is this even an issue? Should a DM spring these kinds of shenanigans on players looking to command golems?
Is this concept too deep in 'paranoid wizard mindset' territory?

This should only be an issue if either a) there actually is a paranoid wizard involved already or b) the players are acting in "paranoid wizard"-style.

[jindra34]

1. You can't steal a Golem period.
2. Even if you do buy a Golem, and the owner gives directions to follow your orders as though they were his, he still has supremecy of orders, meaning you can't countermand his orders period. The maker is always obeyed (unless it goes berserk).
So...
3. If they didn't deal in good faith, and gave it orders to betray you, your out of luck because there is nothing you can do to remove or negate that order.

[unseenmage]

1. You can't steal a Golem period.
2. Even if you do buy a Golem, and the owner gives directions to follow your orders as though they were his, he still has supremecy of orders, meaning you can't countermand his orders period. The maker is always obeyed (unless it goes berserk).
So...
3. If they didn't deal in good faith, and gave it orders to betray you, your out of luck because there is nothing you can do to remove or negate that order.

Yes. Yes you can. Otherwise I wouldn't be asking.

- The Warforged Domain lets you turn, rebuke, and command them.
- The Rod of Construct Control (http://www.realmshelps.net/magic/items/rods.shtml) literally makes the Golem treat you as it's master.
- And there's the Master's Voice feat from Dragon Magazine 354. It's limited and if the master's there it doesn't work but it's still an option.
- There are several Constructs that obey whoever holds their command amulet. The Shield Guardian (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dandwiki.com%2Fwiki%2FSRD%3AS hield_Guardian&ei=mrzgUaT0FcWWrgGut4H4BQ&usg=AFQjCNGm20X7orJl27IEw1zPg5kohsXy0Q&sig2=sdmqVNef0dcVl7HOLSKyig&bvm=bv.48705608,d.aWM) and the Clockroach among them.
- And finally there are a few constructs that just obey whoever has the best ability check. Like this little guy: Universal Key (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20061106a).

Point being, it happens.

[Nettlekid]

I'm sure Tippy would suggest something along the lines of Polymorph Any Object on the construct in question, turning it into some creature without an innate immunity to mind-affecting effects, then use Programmed Amnesia or Mindrape or something to erase all previous orders, describe you as its master, and then dispel Polymorph Any Object.

[jindra34]

Yes. Yes you can. Otherwise I wouldn't be asking.

- The Warforged Domain lets you turn, rebuke, and command them. Assuming you can get a turning level of double the Golem's HD. Which like undead tend to be high for their effective power.



- The Rod of Construct Control (http://www.realmshelps.net/magic/items/rods.shtml) literally makes the Golem treat you as it's master. Which is missing its source. But okay that one will allow you to steal it. Provided you always stay within 60 feet, and only rest while in that range. And no real way to set traps against that, given the wording.



- And there's the Master's Voice feat from Dragon Magazine 354. It's limited and if the master's there it doesn't work but it's still an option. So it only allows you to get unattended ones for a limited time? Thats far from useful. And if it had a trap set (such as attacking anyone who gives orders while a master wasn't present.) your out of luck, because your orders would only have effect for a limited duration.



- There are several Constructs that obey whoever holds their command amulet. The Shield Guardian (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dandwiki.com%2Fwiki%2FSRD%3AS hield_Guardian&ei=mrzgUaT0FcWWrgGut4H4BQ&usg=AFQjCNGm20X7orJl27IEw1zPg5kohsXy0Q&sig2=sdmqVNef0dcVl7HOLSKyig&bvm=bv.48705608,d.aWM) and the Clockroach among them.
- And finally there are a few constructs that just obey whoever has the best ability check. Like this little guy: Universal Key (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20061106a).

Point being, it happens.

You said Golem not construct. So these aren't really on your original post.

[Rubik]

Which is missing its source.The rod is from the Arms & Equipment Guide.

[unseenmage]

Assuming you can get a turning level of double the Golem's HD. Which like undead tend to be high for their effective power.
Which is missing its source. But okay that one will allow you to steal it. Provided you always stay within 60 feet, and only rest while in that range. And no real way to set traps against that, given the wording.
So it only allows you to get unattended ones for a limited time? Thats far from useful. And if it had a trap set (such as attacking anyone who gives orders while a master wasn't present.) your out of luck, because your orders would only have effect for a limited duration.


You said Golem not construct. So these aren't really on your original post.

My apologies for the misplaced nomenclature.

However, as you pointed out the most effective method is the Rod of Construct Control (apologies for the missing info) and as such it is the main source of my worry. On both sides of the DM screen.

In my own games it's easy enough to disallow the RoCC, the game I'm a player in has no such guarantee. Between that fact and the myriad other methods for a player to "lose" their construct(s), I stand behind my query and it's validity.

I was under the impression one could use clever wording or logic to "reprogram" a stolen or purchased construct.
For example:
- "Forget your previous master's orders.", might be imposible. Maybe a Golem never forgets.
- "Do not act on a previous master's orders without asking my permission first.", could be more the way to go.