Druid vs. Adventurers - Please make this fight respectable

[Jon_Dahl]

The PCs are going wander around in a forest and they will be ambushed (if Hide check is successful) by an evil goblin druid.

I've had this dance before: An NPC druid cast Entangle and was trying to call lightning, but it takes 1 round to cast and he was completely mauled before he could do that. He just stood there in the middle of bushes and stared at the PCs as they peppered him with spells and arrows. A short, stupid fight.

I want this fight to be less ridiculous. I want the goblin druid NPC to be able challenge the PCs without just being a target and dying miserably.

The druid basically owns the forest and has all the time in world prepare things. He has encountered and killed adventurers before.

Core only.

EDIT:
The druid: 6th-level goblin druid.
The party: Tiefling cleric 5, human cleric 3/psychic warrior 2, gnome druid 7, kobold sorcerer 6

[Jett Midknight]

Throw in some wild animals to help him. Run some test fights to test him out. If he proves too underwhelming bump him up a few levels. Or have him cast spells from the bushes while they get attacked by animals. Also, does this druid have an animal companion?

[eggynack]

What's the party makeup/level? It seems relevant to the kindsa strategies you're going to employ. I mean, if this is all at first level, and I start busting out crazy huge elemental summoning strategies, that all seems rather pointless. Still, classic summoning protocol might be a good idea. It's hard to cast spells when you're grappled by a giant crocodile, and it's also hard to shoot arrows when you're being grappled by a second giant crocodile. Wind wall might help with arrows, if that's the source of your problems, and a flight form can be useful if melee is an issue. Casting, as always, is probably the actual problem.

[Lightlawbliss]

a covered pit (or multiple) with wooden spikes in the bottom or spikes planted in the ground and covered by leaves.

high ground and cover/concealment can save someones life, and aoe's don't really care about concealment.

combine to make melle useless against druid and distance combatants have a hard time. Throw in some disposable resources pestering the back line and maby some stuff to prevent running.

ambushing adventurers when time is plenty-full should involve plenty of well hidden traps, preferably the kind that can one shot week stuff.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Throw in some snares and pit traps, and have him attack while they are still recovering from those.

[Azoth]

Craft (trap making) 'enough said.

On a more serious note though, if your gobo iat least level 5 you can have some serious fun screwing with them before he ever really shows up.

Have him be in bird form, and use some SNA goodness to feed them to a few packs of hungry (insert animal). While this is happening you use call lightning/entangle shenanigans for flavor. Once they are thoroughly softened up, you start raining down produce flame shots at the most damaged enemies.

If you run out of spells while the party is still looking to come at you, fly off down a path that you know has traps far enough to stay out of charge range but close enough to make them want to chase you...bout 100ft should do.

Take off running towards your premade traps. Allow them to separate the party while still softening them up. If they need further incentive to chase you, hurl acid flasks at them or take pop shots with your bow calling out that they will never catch/defeat you.

Once they are tenderized thoroughly (i.e. near dead), you have your animal companion come in from the rear and then you pincer attack them. Animal companion doing its thing (tripping, or grappling) to the enemy it stands the best chance against while you go board/bomb or scroll against the rest.

The trick to one vs many is to be sneaky and underhanded at every turn to make them waste resources and most importantly...make mistakes.

[tyckspoon]

What level? Your options change quite a bit, and especially change significantly based on whether it's below level 6 (because Natural Spell enables using Wildshape for defense/mobility while you set up your spells.)

The idea for sniping with Call Lightning is ok, but it needs more setup than that.. assuming your Druid is launching an ambush on the adventurers, he should be prebuffed. Barkskin on himself and his animal companion, (Greater) Magic Fang as appropriate, Animal's Whatsit buffs as useful - use potions or scrolls for these if he doesn't have enough spell slots to go around or he's lower level and you want those slots to be more directly combat-useful spells. Lead with an Entangle on the party and then follow that up with either a Concealing Mist around the Druid himself or a Fog Cloud around the party. Or, if you have 3rd level spells, Sleet Storm. It's got the same range and area as Entangle, even, so if the Druid hides reasonably well you can put both of these on the party before they even get close enough to Spot him.

Now that the party is almost completely locked down for at least as long as the Sleet Storm lasts (Entangled + Sleet Storm movement restrictions + penalty for obscured vison) and probably almost completely incapable of targeting the Druid, you can cast whatever else you want with a high degree of safety. Set up Call Lightnings or Summon Nature's Ally to swarm them under with wolves or whatever. The Entangle + Sleet Storm combo should cause sufficient panic in the party to make it a memorable encounter no matter what else happens.. especially if they don't see the Druid himself (since he's actually a hawk/something with a good racial Hide bonus sitting in a tree 600 feet away) until he suddenly rocks up to them fully buffed with a Shillelagh in one hand and a Produce Flame in the other accompanied by his equally-buffed Animal Companion and a small pack of other wolves.

Also, keep in mind that he doesn't necessarily have to Summon to get allies. It's his home turf and he's a Druid - between Handle Animal, Speak With Animals, and Wild Empathy, he should be able to call the wrath of any local critters he pleases down upon the adventurers. Either use them as shock troops when he makes his own attack, or send them in previously to wear down the party prior to opening the all-out attack.

[Squirrel_Dude]

If he knows they are coming, then there is no reason for him to fight them in a straight up fight. If he is a high enough level he can engage, tree stride away or do something else disappear, then reengage later in the day. All he needs to do is sneak up on them during night, prevent the characters from getting their 8 hours of rest a couple of times and they'll constantly be on alert.

In other words. He's in a forest. Use that to his advantage and harass harass harass until the party figure out how to stop that, and only after that fight them in a straight up fight. If you want to be a **** the party, describe some bird as looking at them, or something like that with some other animal. Watch them fry the mockingbird with a fireball.

[Jon_Dahl]

How embarassing that I forgot to say what level they are at.
It's now fixed, please see OP. Sorry about that!

[Squirrel_Dude]

The Druid should not be a level lower than the party druid, especially when that means he'll be a full level of spells behind him.

[Vaz]

You could do with upping his level a fair bit. The Druid is a bit weak.

[Lightlawbliss]

ya... your going to need to boost that druid a lot or he will be lucky to see a second round. The druid and the cleric would take out a lvl 6 (+0 LA) druid without the others there and both still be able to keep going if they play it smart.

[Jon_Dahl]

The Druid should not be a level lower than the party druid, especially when that means he'll be a full level of spells behind him.

But a goblin druid 6 is a Challenge Rating 6 opponent and level appropriate for this group (ECL of the group is about 6). According to the rules he's a "Challenging Encounter".

I've always run my games according the 3.5 DMG encounter rules, but they always get destroyed in 1-2 rounds. I'd like this druid to survive at least to the fourth round.

[Lightlawbliss]

But a goblin druid 6 is a Challenge Rating 6 opponent and level appropriate for this group (ECL of the group is about 6). According to the rules he's a "Challenging Encounter".

I've always run my games according the 3.5 DMG encounter rules, but they always get destroyed in 1-2 rounds. I'd like this druid to survive at least to the fourth round.

those rules are great if you are dming first timers and/or week characters AND you play them well. You have to up it a bit for more powerful parties (you have a rather powerful party). Also, landscape doesn't change the ecl (traps do, the fact a tree is there doesn't). You want it to live till the 4th round? Try a lvl 8 or 9 druid with his animal companion using landscape and his powers to his advantage.

[Killer Angel]

The druid remains hidden (animal form), casts entangle, then proceeds to summon a swarm (so funny with entangled peoples), then call lightning and summon natural allies.
Wind Wall for protection, and anyway, be ready fo flee.

[Drachasor]

Well, if you bump him up to 9th level, then Wall of Thorns is insanely effective...but that might end in a TPK. Seriously, it's probably the best or one of the best Wall spells. (DC 25 STRENGTH check to move 5 ft and enemies can be within the spell effect when cast). Rock to Mud is less lethal, but still really strong. Stoneskin is a fantastic spell to cast if he knows combat is coming. I'd consider some Awakened Trees as well.

4th level has Echolocation. Use a spell that blocks vision, then Echolocation lets you ignore any difficulties thereof. Freely attack while they can't even see where you are. Combine Wall of Thorns with Echolocation and you've got a great way to see and attack freely.

Oh, did I forget to mention, the Druid Woodland Stride ability lets your ignore Wall of Thorns. If you're lucky the party druid will recklessly attack. If not, then you attack him while he's trying to help out his friends. (Also, Awakened Trees can strike at anyone outside the thorns with ease).

But yeah, you need to up the level of that druid if you really want him to be a notable threat, especially given the other druid in the party. If you stick to just 7th level (same as the Party's druid, so expect to not do well), then focus on movement and vision impeding spells combined with echolocation.

Edit: Oh, and Sheet Lightning can be a pretty nice 3rd level spell.

[Ashtagon]

Look at it from the goblin druid's point of view. He's facing an encounter four levels above what is appropriate for him. There's no way he is going to do a stand-up fight if he has any sense. He's going to go all Tucker's kobolds on the party. Given he's a druid in a forest, that should let him get very creative.

[Drachasor]

Look at it from the goblin druid's point of view. He's facing an encounter four levels above what is appropriate for him. There's no way he is going to do a stand-up fight if he has any sense. He's going to go all Tucker's kobolds on the party. Given he's a druid in a forest, that should let him get very creative.

Good point. It is helpful to remember that a tiny or diminutive animal at a distance is going to be hard to notice...even if it is casting spells. Not too hard to soften the party up before any sort of direct confrontation.

Further, Wood Shape, Expeditious Excavation, Burrow allow a lot of traps to be built.

Lastly, if he's been in the area a long time, then Speak with Animals will allow him to have made animal allies to aid him without the need for summoning.

[Zombimode]

But a goblin druid 6 is a Challenge Rating 6 opponent and level appropriate for this group (ECL of the group is about 6). According to the rules he's a "Challenging Encounter".

I've always run my games according the 3.5 DMG encounter rules, but they always get destroyed in 1-2 rounds. I'd like this druid to survive at least to the fourth round.

You need to learn what those figure actually mean. An EL = APL encounter means a relatively risk-free encounter that will nevertheless drain the parties resources by 20% - on average, meaning that the individual experience in play may differ greatly from this.
An EL = APL +3 encounter means an even challenge. (IE. a party of one level 4 character has an APL of 1 (4/4 = 1). A CR 4 creature, for example a humanoid with 4 class levels is then an EL 4 encounter).

So, simply by the numbers your level 6 druid against your APL 6.1 party is just below a speedbump. Don't expect it to be otherwise.

[Threadnaught]

Bump it up to level 7 or 9. Get a Brown Bear as his Animal Companion. Be willing to Wildshape into a Wolf, Wolverine or an Eagle to stay inconspicuous. You could have your Druid transform into these creatures for more direct combat Crocodile, Leopard, Brown/Polar Bear, Rhinoceros, Dire Lion, Dire Bat, Deinonychus Dinosaur and Megaraptor Dinosaur.

As for Spells, go with effects that allow you to lock down as much of the party as possible all at once. First of all, there's Buffs for the Druid so they can survive a little longer, Death Ward, Freedom of Movement, Protection from Energy and Barkskin are all good protective Spells, most of which last for ages.
BFC includes Control Winds, Wall of Thorns, Plant Growth, Sleet Storm, Stone Shape, Wind Wall, Entangle and Obscuring Mist. Being able to take on the entire party one at a time on your terms is good in the case of a party who have dominated everything they've fought so far. They'll never see this coming and will have to think carefully about their actions, rather than reflexively win.


Give your players an encounter they'll remember. Don't just throw a 6th level Druid at a party with a 7th level Druid, they'd slaughter it without a second thought.

[EyethatBinds]

Good point. It is helpful to remember that a tiny or diminutive animal at a distance is going to be hard to notice...even if it is casting spells.

Turning into a tiny animal is an epic level feat. Unless he's looking to have the party run into the world's most powerful druid and have him slay them all, the goblin will need to stick to small or medium creatures. Heck, Large wild shape is an 8th level ability.

[eggynack]

Turning into a tiny animal is an epic level feat. Unless he's looking to have the party run into the world's most powerful druid and have him slay them all, the goblin will need to stick to small or medium creatures. Heck, Large wild shape is an 8th level ability.
Tiny is at level eleven. You're thinking of diminutive wild shape, which he was mistaken about.

[Drachasor]

Hmm, 11th level for Tiny in 3.5.

My mistake, I was looking at the Pathfinder Druid! They get diminutive at 8th level. Wow, crazy, eh?

Still a lot of cats get a natural bonus to stealth, so hit and run attacks from afar should not be too hard using a leopard or even a small bird.

Edit: Stupid pathfinder messing me up. Gah.

[Scow2]

I'd advise Call Lightning as the spell he uses to announce his presence - He casts on his turn. The one round casting time means it doesn't strike until its his turn to act again - meaning he can hit them with a bolt of lightning and Entangle them in the same round. And, he should be some sort of hawk, most likely, so he can stay out of the way of his bigger enemies. Being able to hang out in the canopy of the forest means he has cover and concealment. Even a level 6 or 7 druid can be a threat in his natural habitat... except that your own party has its own Druid, meaning he needs a LOT more prepwork on his end.

[Emmerask]

I assume you dont want to just kill the pcs but want them to have a challenging fight.

The druid himself is a bit weak to attack directly, so I would have him stay out for the most part and pop in when the fight is well under way and then start to strike, best would be a flying type, an eagle or somesuch.

Have some stuff prepared for the ambush site, some traps that restrict movement and something that allows his troops to pop up right next to the group. Or use animals that can move under the surface Ankhegs or somesuch.

So at first your 5 Ankhegs come up right next to the party (surrounding them)
doing their acid spit and try to grab the casters.
The animal companion of course also starts to run into battle (duno what you have).

Then when this fight is underway the druid flys over casts fog cloud (ankhegs dont care due to tremorsense).

It will more then likely not kill them but this time they will break a sweat ^^

[limejuicepowder]

I think the real goal of this combat should be to make the most complicated, convoluted combat ever, with danger to the PC's without doing damage.

1) Prepare a trap in the form of a large dried-up pond/lake area. The PC's just happen to be walking through it.

2) The goblin druid, hiding nearby, prepares by sending in a large pack of wolves. Use a couple of summon spells to boost numbers, but most of the wolves should just be ones he has befriended.

3) Once engaged and distracted, the goblin uses kelpstrand to grapple all member of the party. It'll take two castings, but since he's doing it from hiding or even bird form, he shouldn't have too much problem getting it off.

4) Druid then breaks the local beaver dam using <not sure>, and floods the area the PC's are in. Panic sets in.

5) Druid summons hordes of squid. They are only CR 1, but they pack a +8 grapple check. Don't stop summoning till there are 3 squid on each PC.

6) Laugh as the PC's drown.

7) Wait one day for the beavers to rebuild the dam (yeah they're that industrious).

8) Collect loot.

[nedz]

I agree with the other posters about upping the level.
I'd go CR 10 for a very hard memorable fight, but probably CR 9 since your party are probably not used to being challenged.

Start with him standing off hiding, wildshaped into some innocuous looking animal, ideally one which can fly. He the uses SNA to summon some animals which you might expect to encounter in the forest anyway — hopefully it will be a couple of rounds before they work out that these aren't normal animals. Actually you could start with some animals which don't go pop when you kill them — via handle animal. The idea here is that they start off thinking it's just some wild animals before the penny drops and they start to look around for the druid — hopefully somewhat frantically.

[avr]

On the idea of casting spells in wildshape & hoping not to be noticed - this is much more likely to work if there are a number of other animals around making various noises. A Druid should be able to arrange that.

Also remember to use cover or concealment. By casting wood shape or stone shape beforehand the Druid should be able to get the improved cover (see 'Varying degrees of cover') for +8 AC / +4 to reflex saves. For that matter, if the druid's attacking the party, what about having Call Lightning pre-cast? It lasts minutes/level.

[Jon_Dahl]

Based on the ideas here, I'm going have him hide behind a tree, stand in a bush and start the surprise round with an Entangle. He will then cast Call Lightning and soften the PCs.

If he loses half of his HP, he will retreat (gains Total Concealment while retreating). He will leave tracks on purpose, transform into black bear and retreat to the lair of a friendly black bear. They will fight together against the PCs.

[Sith_Happens]

Based on the ideas here, I'm going have him hide behind a tree, stand in a bush and start the surprise round with an Entangle. He will then cast Call Lightning and soften the PCs.

No, no, no. He casts Call Lightning, then Entangle, then starts actually dropping the lightning bolts.

[pbdr]

No, no, no. He casts Call Lightning, then Entangle, then starts actually dropping the lightning bolts.

Exactly. Call lightning has a duration of minutes per level. The druid can cast it, track the PCs for a bit, hang out, then cast entangle and go from there. He can even pause to cast other stuff and still call bolts later....

Call lightning is the spell you have running in the background.

[Rubik]

Exactly. Call lightning has a duration of minutes per level. The druid can cast it, track the PCs for a bit, hang out, then cast entangle and go from there. He can even pause to cast other stuff and still call bolts later....

Call lightning is the spell you have running in the background.Make sure he has up all of his min/lvl, 10 min/lvl, and hour/lvl buffs, as well. Anything to help improve his situation, he should have up.

He should also make use of any and all spells that have long-lasting effects well before the fight, such as Speak With Animals and whatnot. SWA has a limited duration itself, but befriending several packs of animals will last for a good long time. It's the gift that keeps on giving! Any other spells in this vein (to create pits for your bull-friends to bull-rush them into) would be good as well.

Anything to throw the fight to your advantage. Don't reveal yourself until absolutely necessary.

[Telok]

One time with a level 7 shapeshift druid I wiped out an entire encounter with this tactic. Thats with no wildshape, no Natural Spell, and no animal companion. What you're missing is Obscuring Mist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/obscuringMist.htm).

Pre-initative: While still hidden cast Call Lightning.
Surprise round: Cast Entangle and take a five foot step behind hard cover (a tree).
Round 1: Make a Hide check while moving out of cover, then cast Obscuring Mist on the PCs.
Round 2: Make a Move Silently check while moving and call a lightning bolt at the last observed position of a PC who looks like a spellcaster.
Rounds 3+: Sit quietly and make move action Listen checks to target entangled PCs in the mist.

[Demidos]

Sleet Storm + Snowsight works (at least, That I know of most people allow it). Use it.

[nedz]

One time with a level 7 shapeshift druid I wiped out an entire encounter with this tactic. Thats with no wildshape, no Natural Spell, and no animal companion. What you're missing is Obscuring Mist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/obscuringMist.htm).

Pre-initative: While still hidden cast Call Lightning.
Surprise round: Cast Entangle and take a five foot step behind hard cover (a tree).
Round 1: Make a Hide check while moving out of cover, then cast Obscuring Mist on the PCs.
Round 2: Make a Move Silently check while moving and call a lightning bolt at the last observed position of a PC who looks like a spellcaster.
Rounds 3+: Sit quietly and make move action Listen checks to target entangled PCs in the mist.

I think you mean Fog Cloud, Obscuring Mist is almost personal.

[Sith_Happens]

Sleet Storm + Snowsight works (at least, That I know of most people allow it). Use it.

I'm actually going to advise against Snowsight shenanigans. That's too easy a recipe for "the PCs can't fight, no save, nothing they can do about it besides lay down and die."

[Tvtyrant]

Cloudburst+ Scroll of Call Lightning Storm to get 5d6 damage as a standard action. If you give him Sudden Extend and Sudden Maximize for feats you can get him a maximized Call Lightning Storm for 30 damage a turn and extend a summon spell to get an extended Lion, which with its own Leopard Animal Companion and the Lightning is a pretty good encounter. Two of the party members get pounced and they all get entangled on the first round, and then lightning each round.

It still will not be the best fight ever, but you could always claim he has some animal friends from his empathy class feature and give him a pair of apes. That should kick the challenge up a bit, because the apes and lion have decent grapples and a lot of damage. Pin the party down and make them eat some full attacks while their casters are hopefully failing concentration checks.

[Aleolus]

Oh, did I forget to mention, the Druid Woodland Stride ability lets your ignore Wall of Thorns. If you're lucky the party druid will recklessly attack. If not, then you attack him while he's trying to help out his friends. (Also, Awakened Trees can strike at anyone outside the thorns with ease).

Not true. Woodland Stride specifies in the ability description that it does not allow you to ignore the movement hindering or damaging effects of spells that alter terrain, only natural terrain. Wall of Thorns is a spell that alters terrain, so a Druid would still be affected by it.


Turning into a tiny animal is an epic level feat. Unless he's looking to have the party run into the world's most powerful druid and have him slay them all, the goblin will need to stick to small or medium creatures. Heck, Large wild shape is an 8th level ability.

Unless he modifies the Halfling Druid racial substitution levels presented in the Races of the Wild book to be appropriate for goblins. The level 5 ability for them is Undersized Wild Shape, making it so that at level one you can become any small or tiny creature. Then you advance normally, but with your size range reduced down by one category. The tradeoff for this is you get one extra Wild Shape a day.

[Mishkov]

I'm actually going to advise against Snowsight shenanigans. That's too easy a recipe for "the PCs can't fight, no save, nothing they can do about it besides lay down and die."

And it's a forest druid.

OP: I'm not sure what you consider "core-only", but I can brew something up for you. You have a psychic warrior in your party and you've requested "core only" which I don't consider core.

Here's how I would do it. I would start with random Fey or plants (Satyr, pixie, nymph, treant, whatever) approaching them telling them they are to leave teh forest by the druid's command. If not pain will follow. Then things start happening. I suggest "weird weather" sorts of things in the forest to start to pile up. Things like drifts of the shalm then blood snow (frostburn). So they suddenly have snow dumped on them, then minor con damage. Now they're getting nervous. Then they are assaulted by Fey/Plants/Animals. At this point, they've used some resources, but they aren't down and out by any means. The druid has only begun though and is now following them, pelting lightning bolts at them with call lightning. If he's detected, he runs off in bird form or burrows or shifting sands spell or whatever you feel would be best. He knew he was running ambush tactics. He has longstrider on and other buffs to help him avoid the party's pursuit.

That should set up the feel. This is the druid's forest. He's around, he's cruel, he's out of sight, but he means business and he is clearly just weakening you for the night assault (morning assault for easier encounter level since the party will have rested. Morning assault during prayer/meditation for spells for irritatingly difficult encounter)

Later that night, he attacks for real. I'm assuming at least level 7 druid, but preferably a level 9 one with enough wisdom to have bonus spells. Whatever you gave your players, give the goblin AT LEAST that much point buy/perks. If not more, he's a boss encounter, treat him as such.

Start out with a summon nature's ally from the forest, and send them in to attack. He may or may not have the spell extended (or MM rod extended) The party may think they're being attacked by random animals again or not. The druid's animal companion is a bear probably, the druid at this point is a bear as well or in some form that he'll eventually turn into a bear. He's running barkskin, halo of sand, and magic fang (or superior).

Depending on what the party does. He can cast bite of the werewolf (and share with companion) and then try to beatstick them whenever they break through the animals and spells. Or toss a few spells from afar as they try to close in from the field of animals (make the animals grapple too!).

Stronger (TPK possible) options:
At first, he can keep them at bay with kelpstrand, entangle/sleet storm or haboob (both stronger entangles), followed by a vortex of teeth (If you want to just effing smash them, you can use a born of three thunders haboob then drop vortex of teeth on them and stay in bird form at first, then descend into bear, but seeing the bear in the distance might be cool). At least one person should get hit by spirit jaws early as well--sort of announcing his presence. Probably the other druid or cleric to keep them from countering his magic too much.

If the party's druid's animal companion gets close, feel free to cast dominate animal on it or even better unholy beast. Remember in bear form with bite running, your touch attacks are almost certainly going to hit. Hit someone with infestation of maggots because it's very flavorful. It may kill them though if they have low con/don't save well. Another strong option would be the blinding spittle spell. The cleric should be able to cure blindness at this point, but it can swing the fight in his favor if it is cast on the right person.

Part of the key to this fight is going to be the animals on the field. Remember you can take some summoning feats on the druid if you need to or send multiple summoned "waves" at them from the forest. Also the wild cohort feat to give him a second beast at his command. If the druid has enough animals on the field, hit them with snake's swiftness, mass to have all the animals attack at once.

If he's high enough level to have 5th level spells, the animal growth spell is fun as is bite of the weretiger or quill blast. I generally don't use save or dies versus the party, but at this level, flesh to salt and choking sands are very strong. Owl's insight is a strong buff too depending if you want your druid to have stronger save DCs or a monk's vest (monk's belt, custom item rules) with a wildling clasp on it/wild enchant so he gets wisdom to AC in animal form.

One thing to be especially nasty that I don't recommend is the fleshraker animal companion, especially with venomfire.

Remember to cast passage of the shifting sands at the end and float off :smallsmile:

[Scow2]

And it's a forest druid.

OP: I'm not sure what you consider "core-only", but I can brew something up for you. You have a psychic warrior in your party and you've requested "core only" which I don't consider core.

I'd guess he means SRD-only material, which the Psychic Warrior IS.

[eggynack]

OP: I'm not sure what you consider "core-only", but I can brew something up for you. You have a psychic warrior in your party and you've requested "core only" which I don't consider core.
I've gotta figure that he's going by one of the SRD based definitions. Both the official Wizard's SRD, and the d20 SRD, feature psionics. There's not a massive amount of druid stuff in either set of sources, so it might be worthwhile to just ignore stuff outside of regular core.

Edit: Verily, I have been unduly swordsaged. It is in this state of affairs that I must forever live my life, under the billowing clouds of my sloth like nature.

[TuggyNE]

Edit: Verily, I have been unduly swordsaged. It is in this state of affairs that I must forever live my life, under the billowing clouds of my sloth like nature.

Retrain a first-level power to burst, already! :smalltongue:

[eggynack]

Retrain a first-level power to burst, already! :smalltongue:
Well, I would, but it's way more fun to be swordsage'd and get to use my fancy drama color tags. :smallbiggrin:

[Jon_Dahl]

Yes, I kind of meant "SRD only", but "Core only" is fine too. Both are fine.

However, Mishkov! That is brilliant! Thank you so much! I had lots of inspiration from that.

One option could be giving the goblin druid a scroll, which has a powerful spell beyond his levels. Let's say, a Scroll of Summon Nature's Ally V and he's only a 6th-level druid. With a bit of luck, he would succeed in the caster level check (a very easy roll) and bring a Large Air Elemental to the fight. And then he would just hide in total concealment, face on the ground in the bushes. The Air Elemental would be immune to the entangle, since it's floating around above it. No extra XP would be gained from the elemental either. The beautiful detail is that SA is usually a one round spell, but now it would be just a standard action (plus a move action to grab the scroll).

Now that would be something! And it would make sense too, since it's a gift from his now-dead master. The goblin has never used it, since he has never been really challenged and seeing that one of the PCs is a druid too, he's hoping to loot druid-specific magical items to cover the loss of an expensive scroll (and he's 100% right too!).

However, this trick is the nastiest of nastiest. I would really hate if my players did this... I.e. buying a scroll of Gate for a mid-level PC. I would hate them forever. So it's better not to open this door, even though it would almost automatically make this fight more memorable and the PCs could possibly get the scroll for themselves (which would be fine by me).

But anyway, let me ask you: The enemy NPC has a powerful, over-his-spellcasting-powers scroll, which he would use against the PCs when he's about to lose. Yay/nay? A large air elemental + entangle = Serious challenge.

[Kornaki]

And when he inevitably flubs the check and no air elemental appears, you can go "but he had a backstory, and I had this whole cool fight planned out, and stop it guys he's supposed to last at least four rounds!" while the party obliterates him.

And if you would hate your PCs for doing something, you probably shouldn't do it to them. You'll just give them ideas (ideas which you have no way to shoot down outside of some sort of Monty Python skit. At the scroll shop

I'd like to partake in a scroll of gate please
Ooh, sorry sir, fresh out of those

How about a spot of summon monster IX?
Unfortunately, it's been on order for two weeks now

etc.)

[karkus]

I'm voting for using snares and traps. A Druid is basically a Ranger and a Cleric combined; that forest is your domain :smallamused:

[Drachasor]

Not true. Woodland Stride specifies in the ability description that it does not allow you to ignore the movement hindering or damaging effects of spells that alter terrain, only natural terrain. Wall of Thorns is a spell that alters terrain, so a Druid would still be affected by it.

Gah, I'm was not functioning well that day. I amend that to Freedom of Movement, which will let you move without restriction.

[Alienist]

But anyway, let me ask you: The enemy NPC has a powerful, over-his-spellcasting-powers scroll, which he would use against the PCs when he's about to loose. Yay/nay? A large air elemental + entangle = Serious challenge.

Emphasis Added. Desperately Ignoring Typo. *cough*

You seem bound and determined to softball the PCs here. He's already outgunned and as good as dead unless you have him cast in a way that they can't immediately identify him, but you're determined to put his figurine on the map and have them fireball him into oblivion aren't you. No wonder your encounters don't go very long. 4 on 1 or 5 on 1 isn't a fair fight. If it was a fair fight there would be a 50% chance of the party being wiped out, and nobody wants that.

So you want to challenge the party, but not provide a fair fight. That means you must fight dirty. That means you must fight smart. You do that and I guarantee you that even though the party will win, they will remember it.

Step 1: grind them down, make them expend resources, interrupt their rest periods
Step 2: many smaller conflicts, hit and run, Gorilla* warfare.
Step 3: death by Unicorn**
Step 4: when you do decide to throw down and have the big boss fight, don't just attack them in goblin form, shapeshift into something innocuous and then cast the spells in that form (out from beyond the range of detect magic or other similar things). Don't just hide behind a tree, that's not going to do it. (Yes, you should also be hidden, but you shouldn't be in an easily recognizable form in the first place)
Step 4a: cast Call Lightning. Don't monologue.
Step 4b: summon the elemental from the scroll. Don't monologue.
Step 4c: order the elemental to attack the party. Don't monologue.
Step 4d: Only then do you cast entangle on them. I don't know if I've mentioned this before or not, but monologuing should be right out.
Step 4e: hit them with absolutely everything, including the kitchen sink (I know, I know, summon kitchen sink only lasts 1 round per 2 levels, but once the NPC is dead they aren't going to regret having spent all their spell slots)

*Yes, I know. I like the Squid Warfare suggestion too.
**This will mess with their heads. What you're doing is using a wand of summon nature's ally IV (or higher) with limited charges

If you fight dirty enough, you have a slim chance of convincing the players that you're actually trying to TPK. Metagaming like that could put the fear of fear into them. Maybe drop some subtle hints over the week(s) before the next session that you're getting tired of it all. And they'll be thinking to themselves "holy cow, he doesn't give a crap, he's thrown all balance out the window, he's trying to kill us, that's not fair!"

When he's in animal form and casting spells, if they insist that you put him on the map, put a whole bunch of other animals on the map, including things like flock(s) of crows (will be a magnet for fireballs!)

TLDR: make the players work hard to figure out where the NPC Druid is. Stop pulling your punches.

[Jon_Dahl]

Ehhh, sorry about the typo. Fixed that.

[Malroth]

2 levels ahead of the highest lv PC is a fair baseline for solo memorable boss encounters.

[Alienist]

2 levels ahead of the highest lv PC is a fair baseline for solo memorable boss encounters.

Playing smart/dirty and squeezing the maximum amount of custard out of such a small cat is even better.

Shame there's no wizard, you could just steal his spell book and hold it to ransom ...

An NPC that kicks the party in the ballsack, repeatedly, and then lives to run away will be memorable.

[Bronk]

Don't forget that your goblin druid's animal companion shares spells with the druid! Every buff spell that the druid casts on himself using its own magic will also affect the companion. This is great for regular buffs like bull's strength and so on, but also other attack spells that you cast on yourself such as 'produce flame', 'call lightning' and eventually 'stormrage'.

Your druid can cast 'tree shape' and have the two of them hang out as trees while the party passes them by. Then it can cast one of 'call lightning' first and have its animal call the lightning while it casts entangle or whatever.

Alternately, you could cast 'call lightning' first, then assume tree shape. Since the bolts come down vertically, the party may never determine where they're coming from, especially if none of them have 'detect magic' available. When the party figures it out or moves on you could start in on the entangles.

Or, you could have the druid wildshape into an eagle and have a smaller companion that it could carry around in it's talons in order to stay within the 5 foot limit, and do all of this from the air using the 'natural spell' feat.

[Yogibear41]

But a goblin druid 6 is a Challenge Rating 6 opponent and level appropriate for this group (ECL of the group is about 6). According to the rules he's a "Challenging Encounter".

I've always run my games according the 3.5 DMG encounter rules, but they always get destroyed in 1-2 rounds. I'd like this druid to survive at least to the fourth round.


The CR system is broken at times, think about it. It basically says a 6th level character is a fair fight against 4 other 6th level characters. How is that ever suppose to be fair?


Polymorph into a bird sit up in a tree and spam summon/ranged spells where they have absolutely no idea where you are. Make them actually have to run away because its almost impossible to find you. Being up in a tree should give you at least a +10 circumstance bonus on hiding. Also when he casts spells whisper the verbal components so they can't hear you. 25+ listen or something like that to actually be able to hear the guy.

[TuggyNE]

The CR system is broken at times, think about it. It basically says a 6th level character is a fair fight against 4 other 6th level characters. How is that ever suppose to be fair?

That's not a bug, that's a feature: fair fights are for suckers, and if most of your fights were fair, you'd lose the party within five or six encounters. Instead, it's designed around the idea of requiring more or less effort/risk to succeed; easy encounters consume very little of your resources and have a low risk, challenging encounters consume moderate resources and have middling-low risk, very difficult encounters consume a lot of resources and have a substantial risk, and so on.

[Yogibear41]

you'd lose the party within five or six encounters.

Not if their smart, besides goblins aren't stupid they are smart enough to not run in and suicide themselves against a group they know(know being a key part) is far superior to them. They will cheat and use any dirty trick they can to win. At least in my experience.

[TuggyNE]

Not if their smart

Yes, and play that's smart enough to knock the probability of winning a fight from 50/50 to 90/10 is worth a couple of CRs. See also: fair fights are for suckers.

Again, if you are in a series of genuinely fair fights? You'll lose the party. Period. That's just how probability works.

[CaladanMoonblad]

Based on the ideas here, I'm going have him hide behind a tree, stand in a bush and start the surprise round with an Entangle. He will then cast Call Lightning and soften the PCs.

If he loses half of his HP, he will retreat (gains Total Concealment while retreating). He will leave tracks on purpose, transform into black bear and retreat to the lair of a friendly black bear. They will fight together against the PCs.

"Call Lightning" has a duration of 6 min- consider it a "buff" spell, so once he is aware of the trespassers, keep him hidden (goblins can use camouflage, add a +4 circumstance bonus). So go with round 1) notices the trespassers, casts Call Lightning (move silently check to whisper), 3) Entangle, 4) remain hidden and just keep zapping every single round. There's 6 lightning bolts, so that's a bolt for everyone around.
So... Round 10)... THEN have the goblin show himself to the survivors of the Tesla Barrage. : )

UPDATE: Didn't notice the 2nd page- Alienist does a better round by round for how to make it challenging for your PCs. I agree with that post 110%.

[Threadnaught]

Yes, and play that's smart enough to knock the probability of winning a fight from 50/50 to 90/10 is worth a couple of CRs. See also: fair fights are for suckers.

Okay, so Steve wasn't CR7, he was more like CR10, just because he didn't mindlessly attack the players?

An Adult Red Dragon watching the party before deciding when the best time to kill them for their loot. Making liberal use of decoys, their Sorceror Spells and their Breath Weapons while flying around in the open environment they chose to benefit them... Is worth how many extra CR?

It starts at 15, but that's obviously just for when they rely purely on their bite attack.

[SanguisAevum]

Polymorph into a bird sit up in a tree and spam summon/ranged spells where they have absolutely no idea where you are. Make them actually have to run away because its almost impossible to find you. Being up in a tree should give you at least a +10 circumstance bonus on hiding. Also when he casts spells whisper the verbal components so they can't hear you. 25+ listen or something like that to actually be able to hear the guy.

This is no where near RAW.

Being in a tree does not block line of effect, therefore the foliage grants concealment, which offers no bonus to hide checks. Furthermore, Attacking gives you a -20 penalty to hide checks. In order to offset that penalty you would need to be casting from a location that granted improved cover (+10 hide) and be in a form that granted a further +10 hide naturally.

Even if you somehow miraculously manage to stay hidden while attacking with spells... Nothing in the rules suggests you are allowed to whisper verbal components. The description for verbal components state that "you must speak in a strong voice" so at best, you would be classed as speaking, which is a DC 0 listen check to hear. (Which would be then Modified for distance)

Being in animal form will certainly let you gain surprise, but as soon as you start casting, even in animal form it is fairly obvious where you are and what you are doing.

[Lightlawbliss]

This is no where near RAW.

Being in a tree does not block line of effect, therefore the foliage grants concealment, which offers no bonus to hide checks. Furthermore, Attacking gives you a -20 penalty to hide checks. In order to offset that penalty you would need to be casting from a location that granted improved cover (+10 hide) and be in a form that granted a further +10 hide naturally.

Even if you somehow miraculously manage to stay hidden while attacking with spells... Nothing in the rules suggests you are allowed to whisper verbal components. The description for verbal components state that "you must speak in a strong voice" so at best, you would be classed as speaking, which is a DC 0 listen check to hear. (Which would be then Modified for distance)

Being in animal form will certainly let you gain surprise, but as soon as you start casting, even in animal form it is fairly obvious where you are and what you are doing.

some dm's allow whispering a verbal components (aka, have a house rule). however, it isn't 25+. A person whispering is 15 base by RAW.

also, if a normal person sees a bird if a tree and that bird happens to make a motion when something starts happening around their feet, people don't auto assume that the bird did it. However I will agree that lightning shooting from the bird would be a much bigger giveaway. At the very least, the druid would get a disguise check to convince the party he is just a bird (with the appropriate bonuses for actually turning into a bird and having concealment, and penlites for actions not like a normal bird (and similar)) and maybe a bluff check.

[Jon_Dahl]

I ran the encounter yesterday and I had taken plenty of influence from this thread.

The druid was hiding in heavy undergrowth and keeping watch behind a tree. It was very difficult to see him (+19 hide check). He cast Entangle catching the PCs off-guard. The PCs managed to cast some spells, which only wounded him. One of the spells was Flame Strike, so the goblin now knew that he was seriously outmatched. He retreated, and cast heals and buffs so that the PCs knew all the time where he was (judging from the sounds of spellcasting).

The goblin released the Entangle, and the party druid and flying sorcerer moved forward towards the sounds without their companions, which were relatively stuck in the undergrowth.

The goblin revealed on purpose that he was hiding in a bush, and then fell prone to total concealment beneath the bushes. Gnome druid's animal companion riding dog was set to attack him, but almost fell to a pit trap in front of the druid.

The goblin now faced the sorcerer, druid and his animal companion. Because the flying sorcerer was really punishing him with spells, he cast a Fog Cloud on the sorcerer. The sorcerer retreated from the cloud and didn't want to enter it. The Tiefling cleric shared his opinion and also didn't enter it. The cleric/psychic warrior was too damn slow to join in.

The druids dueled in the Fog Cloud and the goblin called upon his dire rat companion, which tried to kill the riding dog. The goblin wasn't able to do much and died, but now comes the Grande Finale (brace yourself):

The small dire rat fought the 7th-level druid and his riding dog animal companion for over 10 rounds!
(I think it was 15 rounds in total?)

A Fact: We had a party of four mid-level characters, who took 10+ rounds to kill one 5HD dire rat. I asked them what the hell were they doing, but the two PCs just didn't want to enter the fog and one PC was too far away and much too slow.

Finally the psychic warrior came, but the pit trap was in the fog and he was walking straight at it. No one warmed him about it but he was lucky not to fall. Only with his help the druid and dog were able to beat the rat.

They wasted spells fighting the goblin and also the riding dog was bitten multiple times by the rat, exposing it to filth fever which could make them waste more resources. The PCs are on a clock and must return ASAP.

Next they are going to fight a medusa and haven't rested after the druid battle.

The thing is that they were actually lucky with the dice on several occasion in the fight. The PCs scored criticals; the dire rat rolled two consecutive natural 1s.

[Norin]

Sounds like good times! :)

[TuggyNE]

Okay, so Steve wasn't CR7, he was more like CR10, just because he didn't mindlessly attack the players?

No. Reasonably intelligent tactics are expected from reasonably intelligent foes. If, however, those foes discern that — using their normal, semi-optimal tactics — they would have only a 20% chance of survival, and then frenetically improve their tactics to give an 80% chance, that is very definitely worth a CR increase, because the nature of the encounter has materially changed. In most cases it is also grounds for glaring at the DM for overplaying the monster's abilities.


An Adult Red Dragon watching the party before deciding when the best time to kill them for their loot. Making liberal use of decoys, their Sorceror Spells and their Breath Weapons while flying around in the open environment they chose to benefit them... Is worth how many extra CR?

It starts at 15, but that's obviously just for when they rely purely on their bite attack.

Besides the above, dragons are notoriously difficult for their CR. Maybe that's why.

[Bronk]

Thanks for the update on the encounter! I was super curious how it would play out! Sounds like fun...

[nedz]

No. Reasonably intelligent tactics are expected from reasonably intelligent foes. If, however, those foes discern that — using their normal, semi-optimal tactics — they would have only a 20% chance of survival, and then frenetically improve their tactics to give an 80% chance, that is very definitely worth a CR increase, because the nature of the encounter has materially changed. In most cases it is also grounds for glaring at the DM for overplaying the monster's abilities.Maybe that's why.

I take the opposite view. The monster/NPC should be played to their full potential to merit the full CR. If you under play them then the CR should be reduced.

Ultimately though: how much xp you award just determines the speed at which the PCs advance, or to look at it another way, how many encounters they have at any given level.

[Tvtyrant]

I made a thread for the intelligent play=CR raise here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15631031#post15631031).

[Karoht]

Druid Harassment 101: Nature is Ruthless.
I'm going to use Pathfinder Spells for the purpose of this discussion, feel free to fill in with 3.5 material as needed.

So, the party makes camp.
Tents are maybe 10 ft long by 5ft wide. About the size of a smaller horse.
The druid casts Aqueous Orb on the tent, swallowing up the tent and anyone inside. The orb then rolls away from camp in the black of night.
Where does the Orb roll to you ask? Great question.
It rolls back to an area at the fringe of the spells range. Said area has Spike Growth cast on it in the shape of a square. It has a pretty high DC to even be noticed, and can only be noticed if you have Trapsense. The orb comes to a stop in the safe spot of the spike growth square and releases the victem of the tent and it's contents.

At which point, the Druid leaves the victem. If anyone was in the tent, here is there experience.
Sleep, sleep, water, tumbling around like a washing machine, taking a bunch of non-lethal damage, then poof. Deposited in the middle of a clearing in the woods. No idea which way is camp, it's dark out, the tent and it's contents are soaking wet and strewn about.
"Guys? Hello?"
*wolf howls, off in the distance*

The victem now has to find his/her way back to camp. It's dark. Hopefully this person has darkvision or can get their lantern going. No idea which way back to camp. Hope they can make a survival check or a Knowledge Local orient themselves.
"Ow, something stabbed my foot!"
That would be the spike growth. The area of which is pretty big. You get one 20ft square per level, and it lasts hours per level. It deals 1D4 per 5ft of movement through the Spike Growth, and slows you unless you make a heal check. Unless they fly over it or burrow under it.

Meanwhile, back at camp:
"Hey guys, wake up, have you seen billy? I heard some water sloshing and now his tent is missing."
The party is likely to be quickly on the trail, following the wet patches of ground until they reach the same area. Chances are the party can rescue their friend without too much trouble and some clever thinking, or the party member can make it back on their own.
However, their sleep has been disrupted, so someone is going to be fatigued unless they sleep more or fix that in some other way.

Roll % every night. 30% chance that the Druid abducts someone that night. Increase the chance by 5% every night until they are out of the forested area.
And randomly take an empty tent. If the person has to spend time looking for it the next day, that is annoyance. And they might have to run across the Spike Growth just to get to their supplies.

It is very easy to dial up the difficulty of this harassment type encounter without much effort.
Summon Monster Level 1 and use that to make a distraction for whoever is on watch that night, while the Orb attempts to abduct someone else on the other side of camp.
If the Druid is somehow spotted, Obscuring Mist + Create Pit + Entangle to keep the party at bay, prioritize retreat. Stone Call is excellent for doing damage and slowing things down as well. He can run into an area of Hide Campsite (lasts hours per caster level, prepare it before hand) to hide from the party if needed.

[Bronk]

Oh, Jon_Dahl, one last thing, just in case your player druid tries to duplicate what just happened somehow... Normally the druid's animal companion is an average example of the species that gains bonus HD based on the druid's level. If your player druid died, his animal companion would go back to being its base monster manual entry self, losing all the druid bonuses. It's good to be the DM!

[Jon_Dahl]

Oh, Jon_Dahl, one last thing, just in case your player druid tries to duplicate what just happened somehow... Normally the druid's animal companion is an average example of the species that gains bonus HD based on the druid's level. If your player druid died, his animal companion would go back to being its base monster manual entry self, losing all the druid bonuses. It's good to be the DM!

The NPC druid didn't fully die at first. He managed to roll a successful stabilization check and was stable. The druid died later on when he was kicked to his own pit trap. At that point the dire rat would have returned to normal too.

[Rubik]

The NPC druid didn't fully die at first. He managed to roll a successful stabilization check and was stable. The druid died later on when he was kicked to his own pit trap. At that point the dire rat would have returned to normal too.And the druid wouldn't have died at all if he hadn't committed suicide by doing what everyone here suggested against doing.

He shouldn't have hidden in a bush at ground level in goblin form. Instead, he should've hidden as a bird flying overhead or in a nearby tree. At least then he could flee when things turned against him so he could return later, after healing up and getting reinforcements.

Not sure why you even posted this topic if you ignore what everyone had to say about it.

[Jon_Dahl]

Not sure why you even posted this topic if you ignore what everyone had to say about it.

You're wrong.
People here suggested a trap. A pit trap was mentioned. I added it.
IIRC You suggested that he had befriended an animal. I had that prepared for the second escape, but he couldn't do it because of the flying sorcerer, so he had to hide in Fog Cloud (which was also suggested in this thread - a piece of advice which I heeded).

"Ignore" is the wrong word here. I took your mostly brilliant advice like sponge sucks water and it helped me - tremendously. Just because I didn't follow it precisely doesn't mean that I ignored it, please...

[Lightlawbliss]

You're wrong.
People here suggested a trap. A pit trap was mentioned. I added it.
IIRC You suggested that he had befriended an animal. I had that prepared for the second escape, but he couldn't do it because of the flying sorcerer, so he had to hide in Fog Cloud (which was also suggested in this thread - a piece of advice which I heeded).

"Ignore" is the wrong word here. I took your mostly brilliant advice like sponge sucks water and it helped me - tremendously. Just because I didn't follow it precisely doesn't mean that I ignored it, please...

If you don't mind me asking, why DID you leave him at ground lvl in normal form?

[Jon_Dahl]

If you don't mind me asking, why DID you leave him at ground lvl in normal form?

A good question.
Changing shape heals him a little bit. Better use that when he's wounded and can choose a form that benefits him the best in that specific moment.
Ground level: First escape to the trap. Second escape to the black bear cave (in black bear form). The first one was succesful, but the fly spell and die luck wrecked his plan.

Again, thank you everyone! The pit trap, the animal allies, and all the tactical advice... Very good! Thanks!

[Karoht]

Okay, so Steve wasn't CR7, he was more like CR10, just because he didn't mindlessly attack the players?
Is this a reference to Steve the Aboleth?

In the hands of Acanous, if he's DMing there is just no way an Aboleth is CR7 in his hands. No way.

Also, Steve the Aboleth is where the quote in my signature comes from.

[Threadnaught]

Is this a reference to Steve the Aboleth?

Yes.


In the hands of Acanous, if he's DMing there is just no way an Aboleth is CR7 in his hands. No way.

Let's just assume that CR is an accurate way to measure difficulty for a moment.
Considering all Acanous did, was use a basic Aboleth using typical Aboleth tactics in a standard Aboleth lair. I'd say it was a CR7 creature and that the players were ECL2 from beginning to end.

Acknowledging that CR is a broken system, however, of course an Aboleth played to use the majority of it's abilities is too much for most level 7 parties. Only the more optimized players could take one out at the level Acanous' party fought Steve. So everyone in the Playground then. :smallamused:


Also, Steve the Aboleth is where the quote in my signature comes from.

I know.

And I'm sure I'm not the only one who's waiting to learn about the story so far. From after Steve beat them the third time and they got into trouble on the moon I mean.

[Phelix-Mu]

I'm fond of green slime and druids. Nighttime ambush involving thick wooden boxes in trees filled with green slime; the boxes act as a crude timer. Moving the green slime can be problematic (unless we step outside of core...primal form into an earth elemental). Use terrain manipulation to force the party into a bottleneck (rock to mud and the like are helpful here), have a fight take place beneath the boxes of slime (via summoned critters or charmed/befriended animals). At some point in the fight, the slimes eat through the wood and fall on the pcs. In the dark, this can be quite bad, as even if the slime misses the pcs, one of them can step on it, which is almost as bad.

At higher levels, combine with quench (and non-core fireward) for more humor (and be evil with energy immunity on the green slime).

Animating/awakening green slime can also be quite lucrative. The DM has to come up with a mechanic for its reproduction rate (which WotC just glossed over), but the stuff is pretty prolific in a forest (where just about everything it touches is food).

Finally, it's easy for the druid to exterminate it once the job is over (the druid would do well not to let the stuff spread...in the course of one night it could eat a pretty large chunk of forest...impressive as the stuff is immobile).

[eggynack]

A good question.
Changing shape heals him a little bit. Better use that when he's wounded and can choose a form that benefits him the best in that specific moment.
Ground level: First escape to the trap. Second escape to the black bear cave (in black bear form). The first one was succesful, but the fly spell and die luck wrecked his plan.
Eh, form versatility is overrated. The best form for a good majority of situations is a flying form with good maneuverability, and possibly high AC. Desmodu hunting bat works perfectly for that, and there might be some other options too. Black bears can't really melee all that well in their natural form, due to a really low AC. Moreover, it tends to be a waste of actions. It seems like you got what you wanted out of the encounter, so it worked out fine, but the fight would have gone much better from the druid's perspective if he just started out in a flight form. The thing to remember about druids is that they're a spell caster first, a horde of surrounding beat sticks second, and a beat stick themselves third. If you really force spells down your own throat, you could possibly gain an advantage by meleeing at 8th level, but I don't think I'd ever do it at 6th. You take on a lot of risk, for the reward of becoming a character that's four tiers lower in power level.

[Phelix-Mu]

Eh, form versatility is overrated. The best form for a good majority of situations is a flying form with good maneuverability, and possibly high AC. Desmodu hunting bat works perfectly for that, and there might be some other options too. Black bears can't really melee all that well in their natural form, due to a really low AC. Moreover, it tends to be a waste of actions. It seems like you got what you wanted out of the encounter, so it worked out fine, but the fight would have gone much better from the druid's perspective if he just started out in a flight form. The thing to remember about druids is that they're a spell caster first, a horde of surrounding beat sticks second, and a beat stick themselves third. If you really force spells down your own throat, you could possibly gain an advantage by meleeing at 8th level, but I don't think I'd ever do it at 6th. You take on a lot of risk, for the reward of becoming a character that's four tiers lower in power level.

It seemed like the sorcerer was flying, though, as I recall. This removes a great deal of the flying form's utility, especially if the goblin didn't have other means to disguise its spellcasting. It also means that desmodu hunting bat is probably off the table, as this would be rather conspicuous. Of course, the bird could still hide in the canopy, but fireballing from the air does make staying under tree cover much more appealing.