Bag of Holding, Antimagic Field, and a bomb.

[S_Grey]

Yesterday my players were exploring a deserted subterranean dwarven city and they found The Large Important Door tm, complete with puzzle lock and dangerous trap.

Through the use of etherealness they discovered that the trap on the opposite side of the door was a magical trap ready to set off 4 (Maximized) meteor swarm spells.

Naturally the first thing that is done is the cleric uses his protection domain spell, antimagic field, to stop the trap from activating, and they opened the door. Only after they've opened the door and the trap falls to the ground do they realize that if it leaves the antimagic field (Which was centered on the cleric) it's going to go off and in the event it doesn't kill them outright, will collapse the cavern, ensuring their deaths.

So here's what they've come up with:
They want to put the bomb inside a bag of holding while inside the antimagic field and then toss it out of the field in the hopes that the explosion will be contained.

So my question is:
Will it work? Is this going to be able to save them from a fiery, crushing demise?

[Zombimode]

Yesterday my players were exploring a deserted subterranean dwarven city and they found The Large Important Door tm, complete with puzzle lock and dangerous trap.

Through the use of etherealness they discovered that the trap on the opposite side of the door was a magical trap ready to set off 4 (Maximized) meteor swarm spells.

Naturally the first thing that is done is the cleric uses his protection domain spell, antimagic field, to stop the trap from activating, and they opened the door. Only after they've opened the door and the trap falls to the ground do they realize that if it leaves the antimagic field (Which was centered on the cleric) it's going to go off and in the event it doesn't kill them outright, will collapse the cavern, ensuring their deaths.

So here's what they've come up with:
They want to put the bomb inside a bag of holding while inside the antimagic field and then toss it out of the field in the hopes that the explosion will be contained.

So my question is:
Will it work? Is this going to be able to save them from a fiery, crushing demise?

Why would the trap go off again?
The anti-magic field does not stop it from going of. It tries to go off but fails thanks to the anti-magic field.

But ok, if the trap works like you have described, the plan will not work.
Inside an AMF you can't access the non-dimensional space of the Bag of Holding.

But if you could put the trap into a bag it implies that the trap is mobile. As is the AMF. Why don't you just walk outside with the trap and then throw it 50 ft. away?

[NeoPhoenix0]

This makes me ask a question. I understand that you can't access the space in a bag of holding in an antimagic field, but it is still a bag. Does being in an antimagic field make you unable to put anything in the bag as if it were a normal bag? If you can place an object in the bag what happens to the object when the bag leaves the antimagic field?

[icefractal]

There's not a definite answer for that. One that I've seen (and use myself) is that inside an Antimagic area, a Bag of Holding is just a normal bag, and can have the amount of stuff that would fit in an ordinary bag put inside it. Those contents can only be accessed inside an Antimagic area (or by destroying the bag). Makes an interesting way to hide something.

However, that wouldn't help in this case, because the Meteor Swarm would destroy the bag when it went off. I think you should be safe if you throw it outside of the AMF while staying inside yourself though - Meteor Swarm allows SR, so the fire wouldn't reach into an AMF.

[S_Grey]

This makes me ask a question. I understand that you can't access the space in a bag of holding in an antimagic field, but it is still a bag. Does being in an antimagic field make you unable to put anything in the bag as if it were a normal bag? If you can place an object in the bag what happens to the object when the bag leaves the antimagic field?

That's basically what it boils down to.

They can't just toss the bomb outside the AMF, because sure it saves them from the fire damage, but it doesn't save the cavern they're in from it, which subsequently makes them vulnerable to the crushing death of a cave-in.

As for why the bomb hasn't gone off yet, the mechanism to trip the trap was magical, so the AMF stopped it from activating plan B and destroying the whole place. This trigger is currently in the tripped position, but is being suppressed by the AMF. I imagine if they reset the trigger somehow, then post-AMF plan B wouldn't go off (they are aware of what the trigger is and how they could reset it). But they decided to go through this obviously trapped door (I did mention they had figured out what the trap was before messing with the door, didn't I?) instead of through the wall via dimension door or sword.

Plan B's original intent wasn't as an obstacle for the party, just as some extra fluff to drive home the point of how and why these dwarves were missing, but just like any adventuring party worth it's weight in recklessness, they plowed on through the door. I don't want to go out of my way to punish my party, but I don't want them to forget they aren't invincible either, so plan B is going to go off once it's out of the AMF.

At this point I just need help figuring out whether it goes off in this dimension or not.

[Chronos]

They could dispose of the bomb by carrying it outside the dungeon first before throwing it, but this potentially runs into a problem of timing: They'd have to do so before the duration of the AMF runs out. Now, that's 10 minutes per level, or at least nearly two hours, but there might be other complications there: Plot considerations might prevent them from backtracking to the entrance (that might give the BBEG time to complete his evil plan or whatever), and two hours might not be long enough to carry it forward to the end of the adventure (even assuming they want to spend the rest of the adventure in an AMF).

For other options: If there's a rogue in the party, they can attempt to disable the already-triggered trap while still in the AMF. Of course, any magical skill bonuses the rogue might have won't apply, but on the other hand, he'll also be able to take 20, since he can't prematurely trigger the trap at this point. Then again, if they had a rogue in the first place, they probably wouldn't have gotten into this situation.

If they can find a sufficiently-large room (including a high ceiling), they could throw it out of the AMF in the middle of the room, so that the blast didn't hit any of the structure. Failing that, they might use Stone Shape or similar spells to try to create such a room (gently, so as not to trigger a cave-in while doing that).

If, by chance, there happens to be a Sphere of Annihilation somewhere around, they could dump it in that. A Sphere is a minor artifact, and so would continue to function in the AMF. OK, probably not, but in the kind of dungeon with maximized Meteor Swarm traps, you never know.

They could try to take it out of the AMF aimed in such a way that the targeted detonation point would be inside the AMF, which would suppress the explosion entirely. But that would require some tricky handling (I'm not quite sure what roll would be best to use for that).

[SinsI]

Can't they just hack it to pieces?

[Humble Master]

If the trap is mobile then the PC's could just take it out of the dungeon and then get rid of it/use it against their enemies.

[S_Grey]

The general idea seems to be that either no one thinks this bag of holding idea will work or doesn't want to touch the idea, but there are lots of other ways to deal with the trap.

I suppose in light of all of this testimony, I won't let their bag of holding idea work, since there are so many ideas that I liked the sound of better. Even physically destroying it sounds like a better, if simpler, approach.

[NeoPhoenix0]

Actually a bag of holding could work. You just have to do it right and a type 1 bag is too small, not sure if a type 2 is big enough but a type 3 or 4 should do it.

Someone needs to hold the bag of holding open right at the edge of the AMF while someone else puts the bomb in it. The bag will be destroyed but it should contain the explosion.

[S_Grey]

Actually a bag of holding could work. You just have to do it right and a type 1 bag is too small, not sure if a type 2 is big enough but a type 3 or 4 should do it.

Someone needs to hold the bag of holding open right at the edge of the AMF while someone else puts the bomb in it. The bag will be destroyed but it should contain the explosion.

That's probably the best idea. Sadly, I'm pretty sure they're just going to toss it in the bag and then toss the bag out.

[Alex Xeno]

A meteor storm inside the bag of holding.
Well if I bag of holding is pierced by a sword the magic immediately unravels and dumps everything, so. If something exploded inside a bag of holding, I would assume it would soak at least some of the explosion, but not all as the bag, and everything inside of it, would be ripped to shreds.

As for putting something inside a bag while in a AMF... I would rule in that position, that the item is sucked into the EDS when they left the AMF, since the insides of the bag are still the insides of the bag (how else could it be pierced from the inside when full )

That's my two cents anyways.

[Zanos]

Can't they just hack it to pieces?
Shouldn't this work? They could just beat the trap with a hammer until it breaks since it's in an AMF.

[drack]

*reads first few posts* *skips the rest*
If they're at the level where they face maximized metor swarms then just have the ceiling fall as one block dealing 20d6 (maximum falling damage for a single object, you make it break and them each do 20d6 if you want them dead), and pin them to the floor. people survive, they cleverly use stone shape o the like to get maneuvering room, and after that they can res the people who died and the like. Drives home the point. :smallwink: Either that or I just happen to GM too many grizzly campaigns where recklessness=death. :smalltongue:

[Grollub]

had they not used the AMF, was the trap supposed to go off, AND collapse the entire dungeon??

if so, that seems like a retarded trap.

if not, then the gm is a jerk.