recommended equipment for a lvl 6 unarmed swordsage with only a monk's belt

[TheDreadedThrag]

So I blew all of my starting gold on a monk's belt (not sad about it)
We just got some gold and I want some nice equipment with a little bit of variety. The beauty of unarmed swordsage focusing on shadow hand is that you get some beautiful utility with your stances alone, so I would love some suggestions for equipment I could pick up for this next campaign (apparently we're fighting undead pirates on air ships)
I'm playing a lesser chaond and I have 4k to spend
(Don't think I can justify just getting a rod of rope to myself as much as I want one)

[Gavinfoxx]

Fanged Ring (Dragon Magic)
Necklace of Natural Attacks (Savage Species)

Oh, 4k to spend? Fill out your generic gear, look at the different equipment handbooks.

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=399.0

[Rubik]

Might I suggest selling the belt and buying some armor? After all, 13,000 gp for +1 to AC is...crap. A nice +1 mithral chain shirt means you gain +5 to AC for far cheaper, has no ACP, and actually allows you to use your swordsage Wis to AC (since it only works in light armor).

Spend the remaining 14,000 gp on some nice equipment.

[Drachasor]

You need pants.

[Namfuak]

Might I suggest selling the belt and buying some armor? After all, 13,000 gp for +1 to AC is...crap. A nice +1 mithral chain shirt means you gain +5 to AC for far cheaper, has no ACP, and actually allows you to use your swordsage Wis to AC (since it only works in light armor).

Spend the remaining 14,000 gp on some nice equipment.

He said unarmed, so presumably he does not have armor proficiency. Also, unless his DM is an ass I seriously doubt he doesn't let him get the swordsage wis to AC when not wearing armor.

However, I do agree that a monk's belt at this juncture may not be the most efficient use of money. However, I'll just assume you want to keep it.

In any case, necklace of natural attacks is sort of a must, so we have 1400 gold left to spend. I personally really like anklet of translocation (MiC), which is exactly 1400 gold. However, as a swordsage you have maneuvers to cover teleporting, so that may not be as useful. I would also second Gavinfoxx in saying that spending your 1400 on generic gear/consumables would be well invested.

[Than]

Airships can FALL you know. Ring of Featherfalling.

+2 stat boost item costs exactly 4k. Same for cloak (shoulders) or vest (torso) of resistance +2.

Sovereign glue has a price tag of 2400. That leaves some leftover for the Universal Solvent.

[Rubik]

He said unarmed, so presumably he does not have armor proficiency. Also, unless his DM is an ass I seriously doubt he doesn't let him get the swordsage wis to AC when not wearing armor.Mithral chain shirts have absolutely no penalties for wearing while nonproficient. None. Unless you're an arcane spellcaster, a druid, or a monk. There's absolutely zero reason NOT to get one.


However, I do agree that a monk's belt at this juncture may not be the most efficient use of money. However, I'll just assume you want to keep it.It's...about as inefficient as you can get, actually.


In any case, necklace of natural attacks is sort of a must, so we have 1400 gold left to spend. I personally really like anklet of translocation (MiC), which is exactly 1400 gold. However, as a swordsage you have maneuvers to cover teleporting, so that may not be as useful. I would also second Gavinfoxx in saying that spending your 1400 on generic gear/consumables would be well invested.A necklace of natural weapons should be what you go for. It's in Savage Species, is 1/3 the cost of an amulet of mighty fists, and can explicitly be used for special weapon abilities. Other than that, the anklets are an excellent idea, and some chronocharms from the MIC wouldn't go amiss at all.

[Gavinfoxx]

Airships can FALL you know. Ring of Featherfalling.


There are like 50 gp items that help with falling from long heights, you know. 2k is too much to spend unless you are loaded in money.

[Scow2]

You need pants.
Depends on what race, sex, and CHA score the character has. Shirts are likewise optional, I think.

[shadow_archmagi]

I personally really like anklet of translocation (MiC), which is exactly 1400 gold. However, as a swordsage you have maneuvers to cover teleporting, so that may not be as useful. I would also second Gavinfoxx in saying that spending your 1400 on generic gear/consumables would be well invested.

Those anklets are a fantastic value, even for swordsages! 10 ft teleportation as a swift action. Swift action is what makes it amazing, since it means you can bypass tricky obstacles and still get your full turn.

Swordsage teleports take you farther, but they have a number of downsides (They require Move or Standard actions, and of course, they count against your Maneuvers known and Maneuvers Readied, so learning and preparing Shadow Jaunt means *not* preparing Flying Fist Tiger Parade or whatever.) I don't have my ToB on this computer, but I also think they require line of sight, which the AoT does not maybe.

I can't remember the last time I played a character without those anklets. Mages use them to escape combat, melee characters use them to get into combat, everybody uses them to get around tricky obstacles like walls or pits...

[CyberThread]

Umm, I may be I don't know...


a Hipster...


but I usually buy some travel rations and food, just you know..so my character can eat.

[lord_khaine]

Umm, I may be I don't know...


a Hipster...


but I usually buy some travel rations and food, just you know..so my character can eat.

No, you are a square, the cool people runs up to something and kill it with a punch if they are hungry :smalltongue:

Anyway, regarding equipment then i could personaly invest in an enchantet gauntlet to punch people with. The advantager of this item is that you can make it out of special materials like cold iron, silver or even deep crystal in case you are splashing a bit of ardent in.
(the ardent splash can really give you some nifty abilities, for a start the option to take 15 on a concentration check)

[TheDreadedThrag]

lol no i did buy food and some other things. backpack, rope, rations etc. we're part of a guild we made up many campaigns ago, the belt is just the only thing i spent big money on. My guy runs superior unarmed strike, and with the difficulty level my DM runs on we ruled that the belt would stack with the feat in terms of the actual "unarmed swordsage" variant. I'm doing decent damage, and while that's one of my main rolls in the group (see Flying Fist Tiger Parade or whatever) I would love some other equipment for utility.

I know there are countless bracers and trinkets that are cool (the anklets are really attracting my attention right now, thanks!) but I have this neat belt, why not have some bags and compartments on it to break out some cool ****? I guess what I was looking for are neat little combinations of equipment that any of you guys have used before and had a lot of fun with. I love flavor in this game more than anything, and I play with a really good group of people who have a blast.

Also, My character is literally an agent of chaos. I absolutely do not need pants :)

[Feint's End]

Mithral chain shirts have absolutely no penalties for wearing while nonproficient. None. Unless you're an arcane spellcaster, a druid, or a monk. There's absolutely zero reason NOT to get one.

That pretty much. If you want to get into Magic Item Creation and don't like armor buy and item of permanent Mage Armor for 2k. (though that is not intended so check with your dm first)

[Sith_Happens]

Umm, I may be I don't know...


a Hipster...


but I usually buy some travel rations and food, just you know..so my character can eat.

Living off the land is DC 10.

[Alienist]

Apparently an Eversmoking Bottle turns a Monk into death on wheels for Mages.

I know you're a fake monk, not a real one, so it probably won't be quite so awesome for you, but it might be worth looking into.

[Alienist]

That pretty much. If you want to get into Magic Item Creation and don't like armor buy and item of permanent Mage Armor for 2k. (though that is not intended so check with your dm first)

The standard response to that is to look at comparable items, and note that a +4 bonus to AC (or a bonus to a bonus to a bonus that ends up on AC, whatever) is worth a lot more than that. The standard thing would be to point you at Bracers of AC, but that's boring, let's look at it from another angle.

Specifically, what people usually overlook is that this sort of 'always on' item has absolutely no parallel in the system. That everything even remotely like it is one of those 'limited uses per day' kinds of items.*

Now, you and I both know that if it costs the same to get something 5/day and All/day, then the 5/day doesn't 'make sense'.

However, the RAW explicitly says that you have to follow the RAI when you're making magic items. In this case, it's pretty easy to divine the intent _in general_ of the question of whether to make something continuous or limited activations.

99% of the time when a player is trying to break the magic system, it'll be with something 'always on' when it should be limited uses.**

Now, in this case, it gets interesting. Because Mage Armour lasts for 1 hour per caster level. So you've priced it as lasting one hour, but a counter-claim could just as easily be made that it should be priced as though it were cast by a level 24 Mage! So the price should be 48,000 not 2,000. (!!!!)

Except when we compare it to the Bracers of Armour, that's too dang high!

(NB: in real life if you're going to compare the pricing to the Bracers of Armour and then complain that 48,000 is too much, you've already lost the moral high ground. Just saying)

Now if we had something like a level 3 Mage Armour, usable 3/day, that would certainly cover most people's adventuring day (well, it's longer than 4 rounds anyway)

We could also look for 24 hour coverage by considering a level 5 Mage Armour usable 5/day, or level 8 3/day or level 6 4/day. They all come out at around about the same ballpark figure (from memory 10k and 9.6k respectively), but that's a significant discount to the face price of Bracers of Armour. If your DM believes that the Bracers are overpriced then you're golden, if not then it's going to be a tough sell anyway.

Another way to achieve a similar effect would be with Metamagic. If you could Persist Mage Armour, that would add 6 to the level, so the cost would be x7, which puts us, funnily enough, right in the ballpark of the ... wait for it ... wait for it ... Bracers of Armour +4 !!! (Amazing!)

So anyway, because of the unusually long duration of Mage Armour, it turns out to be a relatively poor candidate for considering as a limited uses item.

You could look at something like an Everlasting Wand, but why not just Wand? Even if you had to use the Wand before each and every combat, it would still last you ~3-4 levels. A wand of Mage Armour costs 750gp, is completely legit (RAW and RAI), and doesn't involve breaking the system or other forms of 'deliberate misinterpretation'. Oh. Was I being redundant there? Well how about this for redundancy ... buy a Wand of Shield at the same time! Again it is (A) chump change (B) really good for your skin (as in it helps keep your skin intact) and (C) legit.

*Maybe an Artifact might be comparable, I dunno, I didn't memorise them all. Life is too short.

**The other 80% of the time they'll try to break it on price, with far too steep discounts.***

***Yes I can math. Cans't thou Venn Diagram?

[lord_khaine]

Apparently an Eversmoking Bottle turns a Monk into death on wheels for Mages.

What? no, it might turn the monk into a pain in the ass for the rest of the party, and for that matter himself if he hasnt managet to grab some sort of blindsense.

[TuggyNE]

What? no, it might turn the monk into a pain in the ass for the rest of the party, and for that matter himself if he hasnt managet to grab some sort of blindsense.

Yeah. That's the joke, y'see. :smallwink:

[eggynack]

I know there are countless bracers and trinkets that are cool (the anklets are really attracting my attention right now, thanks!) but I have this neat belt, why not have some bags and compartments on it to break out some cool ****? I guess what I was looking for are neat little combinations of equipment that any of you guys have used before and had a lot of fun with. I love flavor in this game more than anything, and I play with a really good group of people who have a blast.
So, you're looking for fancy and minor items that can fit on a utility belt? This is a much simpler problem to solve, given that there are two handbooks devoted to that type of thing. First is the utility belt (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4400.0) which is based on fitting a bunch of minor items into a belt of many pouches, and the second is Shax's indispensable haversack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148101), which is about fitting a bunch of minor items into a haversack. The latter is my go to resource for nifty items, and the former seems to fit your intended flavor perfectly. You should probably just read both of them for that reason.

[Alienist]

What? no, it might turn the monk into a pain in the ass for the rest of the party, and for that matter himself if he hasnt managet to grab some sort of blindsense.

Or blind-fight? It's not a problem for a real monk because a real monk has feats out the wazoo. (Also can get a second wazoo as an ACF)

[Feint's End]

The standard response to that is to look at comparable items, and note that a +4 bonus to AC (or a bonus to a bonus to a bonus that ends up on AC, whatever) is worth a lot more than that. The standard thing would be to point you at Bracers of AC, but that's boring, let's look at it from another angle.

I agree with what you said but Item Creation is very tricky indeed when it comes to which Items are balanced and imbalanced. I might depend on Dm taste but in general Bracers of Armor are ridiculously overprized (as well as Amulett of Mighty Fists ... the Reason why I allow Necklace of Natural Attacks in my Games).

You always have to ask yourself who is supposed to wear an item? t1 through t2? Not often ... though I could see a Cleric wearing one for flavour reasons. Powergaming wise probably some would but that's such a minor boost that it doesn't really matter.
And for every non-spellcaster? Well ... Mithral Chainshirt is 2100 gold, gives you +5 to ac and the only ones who would take the Custom Item (which would take up a body slot btw .... most likely body, torso or arms) over the Chainshirt are probably people with a dex higher than 22 (which dex boosting class/combination has world shattering powers again?) or .... well .... arcane spellcasters (which in most cases isn't a setback because they can buff Magearmor anyways ... exception might be the Dread Necromancer since I don't know a lot about this class).

My point is that while the whole "Magearmor-> Custom Item" thing seems overpowered if you compare it to Bracers of Armor you have to see that Bracers of Armor are broken and not something you should compare things too. You should much rather compare things to Mithralchainshirt and think about which classes will actually use that Item .... and to be honest ... every class I came up with did it either for flavour reasons (like unarmed swordsage or soulknife for example) or was generally on a low powerlevel (how is this broken on a monk again?).

It's all relative ... I think that's what I want to say.

[Rubik]

The standard response to that is to look at comparable items, and note that a +4 bonus to ACSo, chain shirt?

That's like 100 gp.

[Scow2]

So, chain shirt?

That's like 100 gp.
But the chain shirt comes with a -2 ACP, 20% ASF, and shuts down any class features that rely on being unarmored. And, it requires you to wear a shirt, which some people find to be a too-costly drawback.

[Rubik]

But the chain shirt comes with a -2 ACP, 20% ASF, and shuts down any class features that rely on being unarmored. And, it requires you to wear a shirt, which some people find to be a too-costly drawback.I could see this causing problems:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6ogtj2G971qg4i9to1_500.gif

What if it's made from mithral for a few gp more?

[Feint's End]

But the chain shirt comes with a -2 ACP, 20% ASF, and shuts down any class features that rely on being unarmored. And, it requires you to wear a shirt, which some people find to be a too-costly drawback.

Shouldn't this text be blue?

[TheDreadedThrag]

and to be honest ... every class I came up with did it either for flavour reasons (like unarmed swordsage or soulknife for example) or was generally on a low powerlevel (how is this broken on a monk again?).

It's all relative ... I think that's what I want to say.

Well Said, sir. I dig the flavor. I got to thinking about punching stuff that is hazardous to me. While I'm pretty much the big damage output on this game my companions have some pretty neat mechanics that we can use together so I went ahead and bought myself some adamantine gauntlets that I plan on enchanting the hell out of after this mission. found some other gold i wasn't using as well and picked up anklet of translocation, and then we made some money and I picked up a wand of clw. So what do you think I should enchant the gauntlets with? the shadow hand focus helps with miss chance, plus a high dexterity, adding counterstrike to these could be amazing. Anyone know what that would cost to put on adamantine gauntlets?

[TheDreadedThrag]

And, it requires you to wear a shirt, which some people find to be a too-costly drawback.

This guys gets it

[Feint's End]

Well Said, sir. I dig the flavor. I got to thinking about punching stuff that is hazardous to me. While I'm pretty much the big damage output on this game my companions have some pretty neat mechanics that we can use together so I went ahead and bought myself some adamantine gauntlets that I plan on enchanting the hell out of after this mission. found some other gold i wasn't using as well and picked up anklet of translocation, and then we made some money and I picked up a wand of clw. So what do you think I should enchant the gauntlets with? the shadow hand focus helps with miss chance, plus a high dexterity, adding counterstrike to these could be amazing. Anyone know what that would cost to put on adamantine gauntlets?

Ok one enchantment is mandatory for me if I play ToB classes. That is Discipline Focus. Discipline Focus is a +1 Enchantment which gives you +1 to hit as long as you have one maneuver of the chosen school as a prepared maneuver. While that doesn't sound too impressive the really awesome part is the second part of the enchantment. If you actually use a maneuver or currently are in a stance of the chosen school (should be Shadow hand in your case) then you get +2 in Addition to the +1 you already have effectively giving you +3 to hit in addition to the normal enhancement bonus. While this is not worldshattering it helps offset attack penalties (do I even have to say how good this is on THF) and makes you very save hitter.

Another thing you should think about getting at some point is some sort of always worn weapon (like gauntlets, armor spikes, amulett of natural attack, elbow spikes, etc etc) with the Warning Enchantment which gives you +5 Insightbonus on Initiative Checks. Also an Item I use on every Character (usually on a gauntlet).

Another thing you should know is that the gauntlet is a single glove and each glove should get enchanted seperately (as by PH which specifies the listed weapon as a single gauntlet). Balancewise it doesn't really matter because you can always attack with the Gauntlet you wear on just one hand (though it might look kinky).
From a flavourperspective I'd talk to my Dm to allow both to count as a single weapon (just punching with one fist looks kinda Stupid ... probably not if you have the Strong Arms Craft and a Battlefist, but that's a whole other story).
From a Powerperspective I'd just let it be one Gauntlet and use the other hand for another always equipped weapon like aformentioned Warning Gauntlet or another situational weapon like a weapon of Ghost Touch. Now you have two Weapons and you can swap between them freely.

If it is just about dealing Damage you might want to take an Amulett of Natural Attacks because that one counts for Attacks made with your whole body (not just one fist) though it takes up your neck slot. You could just leave the Adamantgloves unenchanted and punch with them if you need to overcome Dr.

edit: and totally ask your Dm for a custom item of mage armor (or inertial armor if you dig the psionic flavour) for 2000 gold if you want to look unarmored (I'm one of those who sometimes doesn't like to wear a shirt ... though technically you have to wear at least a vest or bracers). Tell him that for 2100 you could get an item that would do pretty much the same for you but with a higher armor bonus.

[Rubik]

It's fairly easy to stack multiple items to enhance your unarmed strikes. Gauntlets, bracers of striking (Magic of Faerun), necklace of natural weapons (Savage Species), Item Familiar (Unearthed Arcana), Ancestral Relic (Book of Exalted Deeds), stacked weapon crystals (Magic Item Compendium), the tooth of Leraje (Tome of Magic)... Enhancement bonuses won't stack, of course, but the special abilities will.

If you want to see this done to extremes, I made a build. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15474863#post15474863)

[Feint's End]

It's fairly easy to stack multiple items to enhance your unarmed strikes. Gauntlets, bracers of striking (Magic of Faerun), necklace of natural weapons (Savage Species), Item Familiar (Unearthed Arcana), Ancestral Relic (Book of Exalted Deeds), stacked weapon crystals (Magic Item Compendium), the tooth of Leraje (Tome of Magic)... Enhancement bonuses won't stack, of course, but the special abilities will.

If you want to see this done to extremes, I made a build. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15474863#post15474863)

Posting a build out of that challenge is probably not the smartest move :smalltongue:

No but you are right .... Unarmed Attacks of a monk (or Unarmed Swordsage) are probably the easiest "weapon" to boost to a past +20 effective enhancement bonus. Though for now Amulett of Natural Attacks should be enough and probably keep one or two gauntlets for situational things (ghost touch) and or permanent things (warning).

Martial Discipline: Shadow Hand Amulett of Natural Attacks +1 costs 8600g. The Gauntlet of Ghost Touch +1 costs 8302 and the warning one costs the same ... make one of the two adamantine (the Ghost Touch preferably) and the other one out of Alchemists Silver to cover most common material resistances.

[TuggyNE]

But the chain shirt comes with a -2 ACP, 20% ASF, and shuts down any class features that rely on being unarmored.

For completeness' sake: It also requires proficiency in order to avoid taking -2 to all skills/attack rolls, and the armor bonus does not apply to "incorporeal touch" attacks or brilliant energy weapons. What's more, it can be rusted by rust monsters or similar, is a (better) target for heat/chill metal, shocking touch, and others, weighs 25 lbs, and probably has a few other miscellaneous interactions.

[lord_khaine]

Or blind-fight? It's not a problem for a real monk because a real monk has feats out the wazoo. (Also can get a second wazoo as an ACF)

Blindfighting doesnt really do anything here, the real problem is guessing what square your target is in.