[3.5] War Chanter vs Warpriest

[A.A.King]

From Complete Warrior there is "War Chanter" and from Complete Divine there is "Warpriest". Both of these prestige classes are obviously very nice when you use them to lead an army of low level characters (especially War Chanter). I'm wondering if there are any more of these prestige classes who shine as the leader of a weak army and if people every played any of these classes in a campaign where they also controlled such an army of low level soldiers.

[MilesTiden]

*Insert Obligatory Thrallherd Mention Here* :smalltongue:

[A.A.King]

Ah, I still haven't studied psionics yet so I didn't know about Thrallherd but looking at it makes me think it's quite different from War Chanter or Warpriest. It doesn't buff or otherwise protect a large number of soldiers, it just gets followers. I'm wondering if people have experience with playing a class focused on being the commander of a low-level army, not on getting an army.

[Blackhawk748]

I havent gotten into the class yet, but i have a bard who is working on it, currently hes a landless noble trying to get a manor house, so im trying to get enough money to buy one, and then ill take Leadership at lvl 6, i think it should work well.

[lsfreak]

Yea, bard is excellent at buffing. Optimize Inspire Courage (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=sj05vr2ef42lh4ktr5qjioi365&topic=9830.0) with Dragonfire Inspiration (option to add d6 energy damage instead of the normal), including Words of Creation if you can stand the cheesiness and Exaltedness. With everything*, not hard at all to have a party and a bunch of followers running around with +6d6 energy damage on all attacks, EDIT: at sixth level.

Bard/crusader or bard/warblade with White Raven maneuvers might be even better, depending on how you want to play the character.

*For godssakes never use everything D:

[HunterOfJello]

One of the best prestige classes for this is the rarely mentioned Dreadmaster from F&P. Dreadmasters are servants of Bane. The PrC has some steep requirements and doesn't give you a whole lot for the first levels, but follows up with lots of great Leadership related benefits in the final levels. The best features are the two (note: TWO) 'special' cohorts that the Dreadmaster gets in the last 2 levels.


The other great feature of the deadmaster is that they gain the ability to ignore a Leadership penalty for causing the death of a cohort and later lose the -2 penalty to leadership for cruelty.

It's a great class for a minion keeper character who is also LE.

[nedz]

There are classes for armies of undead and animals also, are you interested in these ?

Otherwise classes such as Bard, with maybe a Marshal dip if you want an army of trippers or something.

[A.A.King]

I'm not really looking for anything that grants you an army, just something that works if you already have an army. Personally right now I'm drawn towards War Chanter and maybe ask someone else to go for Warpriest. I'm not that big a fan of Dragonfire Inspiration because the Dragonblood Subtype just isn't something you can slap onto any kind of character, it needs to be part of your backstory and maybe even your personality.

I'm just wondering how limited you would be as a player or party if (one of) your main offences is a group of low level NPC Warriors which you buff a lot using stuff like Inspire (Reckless) Legion and Hero's Feast.
I mean if you use Combine Song to use Inspire Reckless & Inspire Legion as a Bard 3/Fighter 2/War Chanter 10 on a group of level 1 Soldiers who all have Power Attack and fight with Great swords they all gain a Base Attack Bonus of 15 and can potentially deal 2d6 + 1.5 Strength Modifier + 30 without decreasing their hit chance. (Power Attack takes away Base Attack Bonus from Hit Chance and Inspire Reckless takes away AC up to Base Attack Bonus and adds it to Hit Chance) That's just one of the ways you can buff your soldiers. Now I'm wondering, have people experience with playing this kind of party? How many soldiers should you hire/acquire, How often would you have to leave them somewhere to just go with the party? The great benefit of having a personal army as a party would be against large number of weaker monsters but how well would this army be against encounters with small numbers of strong monsters?

[Urpriest]

Aside from Inflame and Implacable Foe, a Warpriest isn't really any better at leading an army than a Cleric of equal level. Inflame is very limited in scope, and while Implacable Foe is very cool, it comes at such a high cost in spellcasting that other prestige classes likely still come out on top.

[nedz]

This (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8817) resource might help.

[TheSunKing]

War Weaver is another good buffing choice, and fits with the naming scheme of your options! (Bard/War Weaver would be silly good at buffing)

[Feint's End]

Ah, I still haven't studied psionics yet so I didn't know about Thrallherd but looking at it makes me think it's quite different from War Chanter or Warpriest. It doesn't buff or otherwise protect a large number of soldiers, it just gets followers. I'm wondering if people have experience with playing a class focused on being the commander of a low-level army, not on getting an army.

The reason why the Thrallherd is gonna beat every other leader is because he gets two Thralls. One at -1 Level and one at -2 Level which can fill every role you might need for an army. For example make one a bard and give him Leadership and the other one a Mass Buffer ala War Weaver or something similar. The possibilities are sheer endless.
Oh and yeah .... there are no mali or boni on your Thrall score so it doesn't matter how much of your cohorts or lower soldiers die you will get new ones in 24 hours anyways.

And that is aside from having a Full blown manifest who, if a Telepath or an StP Erudit if you want to go the cheesy route, by himself can probably cc, anihilate armies by himself. Or just dominate some really strong monsters (no problem with a sufficient optimized Telepath).
And that all is perfectly PO (or not PO if you count just taking the class as TO).

[Zombimode]

I'm not really looking for anything that grants you an army, just something that works if you already have an army. Personally right now I'm drawn towards War Chanter and maybe ask someone else to go for Warpriest.

Well, there is Warchief from the Miniatures Handbook.

The Marshal base class from the same book is suited for that too.
Several White Raven stances and maneuvers are also useful for leader-type characters.

[A.A.King]

Thanks for the replies everyone, I think it will be fun, adventuring as Army Leaders and not as just a small group of "chosen heroes"