Spellcasting per encounter rather than per day?

[Cheiromancer]

Are there any playable spellcasting classes that recharge between encounters instead of on a daily basis?

If not, what would the balance issues that would have to be addressed? Infinite out of combat spells would have to be reined in; you wouldn't want them to spam wall of stone and fabricate. On the other hand, wall of ice melts fast enough so as not to worry.

I'm aware of hong's darkmage (http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/darkmage.htm), but that's a Villain Class (”http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/villain_classes.htm”) and so is not intended for players. (Although... what would have to be changed to make it playable?)

[Namfuak]

You could look at 4e, I think that is a big part of the paradigm. 3.5 systems are pretty much all limited resource per day though, the only exception I can think of is Tome of Battle's system.

[Karnith]

You could look at 4e, I think that is a big part of the paradigm. 3.5 systems are pretty much all limited resource per day though, the only exception I can think of is Tome of Battle's system.
Factotums get their inspiration abilities per encounter as well, including a limited spellcasting mechanic.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Shadowcasters work alright out of the box with per-encounter mysteries instead of per day.

[Lateral]

That's kind of like an Arcane Swordsage, but you're going to have to do a lot of work to turn that into an actual playable non-broken class.

[Deophaun]

Binders sort of do this, as a lot of their powers have a 5 round cool-down.

[HalfQuart]

Or there's the warlock where most of the powers are at-will and not limited to a certain number of uses per day.

Edit: fixed typo.

[Drachasor]

Or there's the warlock were most of the powers are at-will and not limited to a certain number of uses per day.

Hmm, you could probably bump the Warlock up to Tier 3 by giving it an additional layer of per-encounter Invocations on top of the existing ones.

[Sylthia]

It might take some work, but maybe each spell could have a recharge timer associate with it. A blast spell, like fireball, could have a 5 minute recharge time, so in effect, it become a per encounter spell, while utility spells could have a longer timer. Or they could even have a trigger, like combat begins, or something.

[Karnith]

It might take some work, but maybe each spell could have a recharge timer associate with it. A blast spell, like fireball, could have a 5 minute recharge time, so in effect, it become a per encounter spell, while utility spells could have a longer timer. Or they could even have a trigger, like combat begins, or something.
Doing something like that might take some work if you want to start from scratch, but on the other hand WotC already took a stab at it (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/rechargeMagic.htm).

I can't speak to how well-balanced it is, but it's there.

[Maginomicon]

The official Recharge Magic variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/rechargeMagic.htm) can get what you want done, although that only has the stuff for the OGC content only.

Personally how I get around this is a complete overhaul of the official spell points variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/spellPoints.htm) so that spell points don't suck and so spell points, power points, infusion points, and "dailies" each have their own unique method for recharging that makes them basically encounter-based. For example, "dailies" (internal abilities that are expressed explicitly in terms of "times per day") in my system now recharge their full complement after three hours of rest, with the ability to recover a fraction of your complement by resting for a shorter amount of time (i.e. if you have something 2/day then one use of it recovers after 1.5 hours of rest, 3/day recovers one use after 1 hour of rest, etc.).

If you want to see the end result of my fixes, PM me, as it will take some reading.

[Cheiromancer]

The Recharge Magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/rechargeMagic.htm) variant does not really appeal to me. I think I would much rather like a blanket rule to classify spells, rather than have to make case by case judgments.

And while I guess you could get used to tracking the general recharge times, I think that a random interval really only works if you have only one thing to keep track off (like a breath weapon every 1d4 rounds or something). If you have several abilities (like binders with multiple vestiges) there should be a flat interval. Which I suppose you could do for multiple spell levels; 5 rounds for your top spell level, 4 for the next lower one, and so on.

I do like the binder and warlock classes (I am unfamiliar with the shadowcaster, despite it being in ToM right after the binder), but I was hoping for something with a broader selection of spells, like a sorcerer or a cleric.

I'm thinking of using a spellcaster's normal spells/day, but no more than 2 spells per each spell level, and let that be the per encounter number of spells. It would be like a character who wanted to keep some spells back in case there was another encounter later on. Such a character wouldn't really be able to nova, but wouldn't be tied to a 15 minute adventuring day, either. Provided it couldn't spam permanent effects I can't see why it couldn't work.

Thanks, everyone, for the ideas.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Someone did a Vancean magic to psionics conversion project. You could take that and make spell/power points recharge over time, rather than just with an 8-hour rest.

[The Trickster]

I have played the recharge variant, and it does seem to be more beneficial to spellcasters, rather then a disadvantage. Being able to spam spells all day can get silly, not to mention wizards only need to prepare a spell once and can use it multiple times, giving him even greater versatility.

But that's just with my group.

[Stegyre]

Someone did a Vancean magic to psionics conversion project. You could take that and make spell/power points recharge over time, rather than just with an 8-hour rest.
Here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194002)

[Maginomicon]

Someone did a Vancean magic to psionics conversion project. You could take that and make spell/power points recharge over time, rather than just with an 8-hour rest.


Here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194002)

I wouldn't call Ernir's system a conversion. It only contains material in core, and so you have to make up new material for every spell out there (and then some). Homebrew systems that require even more homebrew to account for each and every character option that a player picks are completely untenable in-practice in my opinion.

"Blanket" solutions are by far more realistic logistics-wise, although perhaps more clunky balance-wise.

For example, I have power points recharge at a rate of 1 per combined manifester level per hour, but distributed and back-loaded between 15-minute segments that don't require rest.


{table=head] ML | After 15min | After 30min | After 45min | After 1 hour
1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 |
2 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 |
3 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
4 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
5 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 |
6 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 2 |
etc. | etc. | etc. | etc. | etc. |[/table]

[Vaz]

EH, just have them recharge after a set percentile; for example, say it takes 8 hours to recharge fully. There are 480 minutes in that time, and if it recharges on a minute basis, you get 1/480th of the number of max power points/mana etc you have.

As an example, to use Psionics, a 1st level Psion has around 4PP. This means that it regains a PP every 2 hours (so, essentially, it regains 1PP/encounter, if 1 encounter/2 hours is average). A 5th level Psion has around 52P, thus regaining a PP every 10 minutes (12 PP/encounter). A 20th level Psion has around 480PP; this means that it regains a PP every minute (120PP/encounter).

[Eldan]

My unfinished but playable Wizard and Sorcerer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233664) are sort of per encounter. I mean, they get powers that last all day, but they can recharge them with a short rest.

[Drachasor]

Hmm.

What about modified Warlock.

All Warlock Abilities, plus they cast Sorcerer Spells. Progression and Spells Known at a rate equal to half their Warlock level. All spells are encounter-based. No way that goes beyond Tier 3. Though perhaps Eldritch Blast loses its reason to exist.

Though, there's a bit of a problem with encounter-based mechanics. Sometimes when one encounter ends and another begins is a bit vague.

[Psyren]

Binders sort of do this, as a lot of their powers have a 5 round cool-down.

This; few encounters last more than 5 rounds so the major vestige abilities end up being "encounter powers" in practice.

There's a PDF out there where people grabbed all the Dragon and online vestiges and put them in one document as well.

[ericgrau]

Here's something quick and dirty:

Divide spells per day for each level by 4 and round normally: 0/4=0, 1/4=0, 2/4=1, 3/4=1, 4/4=1. If a spell per day has any restrictions like a specialty school or domain, it must contribute to a spell that meets the same restriction. Or you may choose to ignore the restriction if you omit that spell. For example if the class has 3 spells per day including a domain spell, you may choose a non-domain spell as your one spell since 2/4 is still enough to get a spell. But if the class had 2 spells per day include a domain spell, you would be forced to pick a domain spell.
You may refresh all your spells after a 5 minute rest.
Ongoing spells are not refreshed until their duration expires. Instantaneous spells with a tangible lasting effect, like wall of stone, are not refreshed until the next day. Instantaneous damage, status effects, healing, etc. are refreshed.
All other mechanics such as scrolls and wands work the same as before.

It's a little weak if your campaign is in 1 encounter per day mode, though. OTOH even then it's nice for between combat utility like dimension door and disintegrate. You do get things like unlimited between battle healing from level 1, but at 5 minute refreshes and one less combat option it's not too crazy.

[Cheiromancer]

Here's something quick and dirty:

Divide spells per day for each level by 4 and round normally: 0/4=0, 1/4=0, 2/4=1, 3/4=1, 4/4=1. If a spell per day has any restrictions like a specialty school or domain, it must contribute to a spell that meets the same restriction. Or you may choose to ignore the restriction if you omit that spell. For example if the class has 3 spells per day including a domain spell, you may choose a non-domain spell as your one spell since 2/4 is still enough to get a spell. But if the class had 2 spells per day include a domain spell, you would be forced to pick a domain spell.
You may refresh all your spells after a 5 minute rest.
Ongoing spells are not refreshed until their duration expires. Instantaneous spells with a tangible lasting effect, like wall of stone, are not refreshed until the next day. Instantaneous damage, status effects, healing, etc. are refreshed.
All other mechanics such as scrolls and wands work the same as before.

It's a little weak if your campaign is in 1 encounter per day mode, though. OTOH even then it's nice for between combat utility like dimension door and disintegrate. You do get things like unlimited between battle healing from level 1, but at 5 minute refreshes and one less combat option it's not too crazy.

I have been thinking of something like this, but have been hung up on the instantaneous/permanent thing. (You have to be able to refresh permanent spells after your next daily rest. ) I was worried about disintegrate, when used to tunnel. How to phrase it so that you can use it to kill bad guys, but not to carve out your underground fortress. Or if that is even a problem (what if you had a charmed beholder?) And what to do about summoned monsters who can leave tangible lasting effects. But since a binder with Zceryll can get them all day, maybe it isn't a problem. But maybe Zceryll is overpowered, and can't be used to decide the issue...

If a character has 1 spell per day of their highest level, they won't be able to cast it under your rule. They should at least be allowed it once per day, I think. Same if they have 1 and a domain.

Hmmm. The idea has potential, but it needs more thought. I like exchanging the ability to nova for the ability to handle more encounters, but the tradeoff seems very expensive. Maybe dividing by 3 (or even 2) would be better.

[Tokuhara]

To replicate 4e's recharge system (which I say is horribly flawed, but then again, I hate 4e), then certain spells'd have to be marked as "recharge", some as "encounter", and some as "daily" for balance's sake. You don't want Sorcerer 20's using Meteor Swarm 6 times in a day. So for instance: 3 third-level spells - Fireball, Flame Arrow, and Fly. Fly would likely be a Daily, because it's probably among a wizard's most powerful spell for a 3rd level spell, while Fireball is an Encounter: powerful, yet not game-breaking. Flame Arrow would be a recharge, which I'd personally make as the DC - Casting Stat, giving casting stats more sway.

[Perseus]

If you went with less spells known and capped a wizard at one spell book with less pages... I could see a 3.5 recharge system working.

Although if anyone finds a working recharge system I would love to see it.

[ericgrau]

I have been thinking of something like this, but have been hung up on the instantaneous/permanent thing. (You have to be able to refresh permanent spells after your next daily rest. ) I was worried about disintegrate, when used to tunnel. How to phrase it so that you can use it to kill bad guys, but not to carve out your underground fortress. Or if that is even a problem (what if you had a charmed beholder?) And what to do about summoned monsters who can leave tangible lasting effects. But since a binder with Zceryll can get them all day, maybe it isn't a problem. But maybe Zceryll is overpowered, and can't be used to decide the issue...

If a character has 1 spell per day of their highest level, they won't be able to cast it under your rule. They should at least be allowed it once per day, I think. Same if they have 1 and a domain.

Hmmm. The idea has potential, but it needs more thought. I like exchanging the ability to nova for the ability to handle more encounters, but the tradeoff seems very expensive. Maybe dividing by 3 (or even 2) would be better.
A disintegrate every 5 minutes is semi-abusable but makes for slow tunneling. It's only effective if nothing is chasing you. For professional long distance tunneling you still need supports. Dynamite certainly doesn't make modern mines zero cost. For adventuring it's not much better than 1-3 dimension doors (plus a cheap wand of CLW for mistakes). And it takes the place of perhaps your only combat spell for that level. Disintegrate is nice because it's dual purpose for combat too, but it's weaker than other 6th level dedicated combat/utility spells otherwise. It's sort of a hybrid. And if something nasty is on the other side of that wall, your disintegrate is not ready in time for combat. It would be hard to put up with until 7th-8th level spells at level 13-15, and by that point who cares about walls? Heck hacking with an adamantine weapon might be just as fast as waiting for the 2nd one.

In short for utility I think it will be a little strong, but far from broken, and should be weighed together with everything else vs. the nova-ness of the regular way.

If you max out your primary casting stat you can still get 1 spell/day of a certain level right away. Or if you specialize or have a domain or etc. The bonus spell covers it. Dividing by 2 or 3 might still be better since this system might be weaker than the regular way even with the advantages. You'd have to playtest and see.