Most deadly PrC

[Aleolus]

There is, at this point, a popular thread about the most useless prestige classes in the system. I would like to see if we can get just as popular talking about the deadliest ones.

My personal money is on the War Hulk class from the Miniatures Handbook. True, your BAB never goes up in it, but you get +2 Strength every level. Combined with the fact that it's basically a given that you have an uber high strength when you go into the class, by level 10 your strength is downright obscene!

[Hamste]

...that is not nearly as deadly as some others. My vote goes to either Initiate of the seven veils, Ur Priest or Beholder Mages (probably misspelled the name of all of these)

[Humble Master]

Are we going after deadly PrCs or completely broken OP PrCs.

If it is the former Eternal Blade from Tome of Battle is pretty boss. Once per encounter you get to take your turn twice.

If it is the later then a number of names immediately come to mind:
Illithid Savant
Beholder Mage
Omnificer
Planar Shepherd
Hulking Hurler

[Humble Master]

...that is not nearly as deadly as some others. My vote goes to either Initiate of the seven veils, Ur Priest or Beholder Mages (probably misspelled the name of all of these) Darn! Missed Initiate of the Seven Veils. Ur-Priest is a very good one too.

[eggynack]

Along the melee axis, I'ma add runescarred berserker to the list. It's pretty phenomenal if you consider the prestige class from the perspective of the entry class, rather than from an absolute perspective. Incantrix hasn't been listed yet either. Also, omnificer isn't a PrC. It is a build.

[Devronq]

My vote is beholder mage and second would be planar shepard

[Emperor Ing]

Okay, someone might have to explain it to me, what's so broken about Initiate of the Seven Veils? To me the requirements seem pretty steep for what are essentially glorified Wall of X spells.

[GnomeGninjas]

Risen Maryr, if you take 10 levels in it it is guaranteed to result in death.

[Qwertystop]

Risen Maryr, if you take 10 levels in it it is guaranteed to result in death.

Also, being dead is a prereq.

[Emperor Ing]

Risen Maryr, if you take 10 levels in it it is guaranteed to result in death.

I'm pretty sure this thread is about "awesome" PrCs not "kills-you-as-a-class-feature" PrCs.

[Scow2]

I'm pretty sure this thread is about "awesome" PrCs not "kills-you-as-a-class-feature" PrCs.
And "Risen Martyr" doesn't kill you anyway. It just planeshifts you to the Paradise of Your Choice.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Okay, someone might have to explain it to me, what's so broken about Initiate of the Seven Veils? To me the requirements seem pretty steep for what are essentially glorified Wall of X spells.

Congratulations, you just took your seventh level of IotSV! You are now immune to ranged attacks, gases, clouds, petrification, breath weapons, divinations, mind-affecting abilities, spells, spell-like abilities, and all objects! While being immune to everything, you will do horrible things to all of your enemies if they get anywhere near you! And you still have full casting! Now have fun being totally invincible.

Anyway, I'd say the Planar Shepard ultimately wins this. It's just utterly ridiculous in so many ways.

Beholder Mage is also up there, but Planar Shepherd also lets you snap the action economy in half, and you can turn yourself into a Solar while you're doing it.

[Emperor Ing]

And "Risen Martyr" doesn't kill you anyway. It just planeshifts you to the Paradise of Your Choice.

As it's written the 10th level class feature seems to effectively remove the character from play. That counts as death in my book.

[Mishkov]

Okay, someone might have to explain it to me, what's so broken about Initiate of the Seven Veils? To me the requirements seem pretty steep for what are essentially glorified Wall of X spells.

You're nigh invincible as an immediate action, still get full wizard casting, it's only 7 levels long so you can chain it into other things, increased ability to resist/dispel, and two of the three feat prereqs aren't too bad. The other prereqs are just sort of "be a high level wizard".

Beholder mage is by far the scariest. Though incantrix is up there too.

[Snowbluff]

I'll nominate:

Eternal Blade: Take a turn out of turn, ignore Dr, and access to maneuvers (potentially ones over your level).

Iaijutsu Master: Damage Bonus, Init bonus, Armor Bonus, and good for chucking Katana.

Master of Nine: Maneuvers the Class.

Wild Plains Outrunner: Full Attack on a Mounted charge. While being Sneaky.

Halfing Outrider: Same, but with more Ubermount.

Arcane Hierophant: Great for CL based Ubermount when you have Dragon Magazine.

Legacy Champ/Uncanny Trickster: Level based bonuses bonus.

Shiba Protecter: 1 level long for Damage and Attack from Wis.

EDIT: Ya know... for not being a caster. Of course. :smalltongue:

[Nettlekid]

Congratulations, you just took your seventh level of IotSV! You are now immune to ranged attacks, gases, clouds, petrification, breath weapons, divinations, mind-affecting abilities, spells, spell-like abilities, and all objects! While being immune to everything, you will do horrible things to all of your enemies if they get anywhere near you! And you still have full casting! Now have fun being totally invincible.


For like, 4 minutes a day. It doesn't seem THAT awesome. Especially since Dispel Magic destroys it (and not the way you can dispel anything, but like, casting Dispel Magic on it just gets rid of it without fuss). I know some people like to use the Incantatrix's Metamagic Effect to make the veils Persisted, but that's nothing you couldn't do with a single casting of Prismatic Sphere and get a more thorough defense while saving yourself three feats and seven levels. I agree, I don't get the hype about IotSV.

Discounting the obviously brokenly powerful ones like Beholder Mage and Planar Shepherd; Metamagic Abusers like Incantatrix, Anima Mage, and if 3rd party is allowed the BoEF's Metaphysical Spellshaper; and casters like Ur-Priest and Sublime Chord which can give their power to other classes rather than being awesome in their own right, I would say my vote for deadliest PrC goes to:

For physical power, Bloodstorm Blade. The ability to do ranged Power Attack/Shock Trooper/Leap Attack means that you can inflict thousands of damage without even getting close. A couple of levels in Bloodstorm Blade to round out a Frenzied Berserker build is brilliantly lethal, since you can be tripped on some Grease, unable to make a Balance check, and still rain death. TPK in the very best way.

For versatility, Shadowcraft Mage. I was going to say something like Malconvoker, because I love Summoner classes for versatility, but then I remembered that you can get all summoning (and even calling, like Planar Binding, if you use Shades) spells with Shadowcraft Mage. Now, I don't know how Planar Binding works with your own shadow illusions, since they don't really exist so I don't see why you'd have to pay them, but whatever happens, you can bump them to like, 120% reality.

For magical power...Hmm, well, I said discounting metamagic abusers, because otherwise I'd put Anima Mage near the top. 3/day free metamagic, and Binder goodies to boot is nice. But actually, I might say Swiftblade, mainly because it's hard for a class to get any class abilities better than a spell it could cast. There are spells for everything. And the Swiftblade, although it loses 4 caster levels, gets the beautiful ability (before the last lost CL) to take an extra move or standard action every turn. You get to churn out more spells than anyone, except maybe a Planar Shepherd abusing a fast-time plane. But let's say you take 9 levels of Swiftblade, and use some metamagic cheese to Persist Shapechange (maybe you've got it in a staff, and you have a Schema of Metamagic Item you can use, or whatever. You figure it out) and turn into a Chronotyryn, with Arcane Spellsurge also persisted. That's six spells per turn. And some decent buffs while we're at it. What can say no to six spells per turn?

[Rubik]

I like illithid savant. You can get any class or racial feature you want grafted onto your build, including PrC capstones. It also helps you bypass annoying class features that castrate the awesomeness of other class features. For instance, psion 17/illithid savant 3 allows you to grab the spell-to-power erudite learning mechanic without crippling yourself with unique powers per day, and since you have 0 levels of erudite, you can learn your spells and powers for free. Alternately, you can use the same build and take the metamind's font of power ability for infinite power points for 1 min/day (or infinite minutes per day if you abuse the Temporal Reiteration power).

It's amazing how utterly lethal the class can make you, if you take the right features.

[MeiLeTeng]

For the amount of party wipes it's likely caused, I'd reckon Frenzied Berserker deserves a mention.

[Zonugal]

I'd say either Planar Shepherd or Incantatrix.

[JaronK]

Shadowcraft Mage, because casting Apocalypse and similar spells without the downsides is pretty much insane. Also, creating pools of death via Shadow Major Creation - Black Lotus Poison is a seriously nasty move.

JaronK

[TuggyNE]

I know some people like to use the Incantatrix's Metamagic Effect to make the veils Persisted, but that's nothing you couldn't do with a single casting of Prismatic Sphere and get a more thorough defense while saving yourself three feats and seven levels.

Prismatic sphere does not move around with you.

[CyberThread]

Am going to say..

shining blade of heironeous



For the amount of party wipes it's likely caused, I'd reckon Frenzied Berserker deserves a mention.


party wipes?

[eggynack]

party wipes?
It's a synonym for TPK. I believe that he's claiming the general form of the term "deadly", instead of its specific meaning as a high tier PrC. If a prestige class kills all of the enemies, and then kills the party as well, you've killed more beings than an incantrix who would presumably just kill the enemies.

[Feint's End]

I'm wondering why nobody has mentioned the Thrallherd yet. This Prestige Class takes the argueably most broken Feat in the whole system and doubles it + giving it some minor boni. OH ... and you don't even have to have a good charisma score since your Thrallherd Level counts double. Take Leadership in Addition and gj! You are now the First full manifester who can do everything times 3 without even manifesting himself. Stack the whole thing on a StP Erudite and laugh at a burning world. (make one of your Thralls a Metamind/Ardent for Metaconcert Abuses)

[MeiLeTeng]

It's a synonym for TPK. I believe that he's claiming the general form of the term "deadly", instead of its specific meaning as a high tier PrC. If a prestige class kills all of the enemies, and then kills the party as well, you've killed more beings than an incantrix who would presumably just kill the enemies.

That would be the joke, yep.

[eggynack]

Take Leadership in Addition and gj!
This is a nonbo. "A thrallherd cannot take the Leadership feat; if the character already has it, the feat is lost and replaced by this ability."

[Jeff the Green]

This is a nonbo. "A thrallherd cannot take the Leadership feat; if the character already has it, the feat is lost and replaced by this ability."

They can, however, take Undead Leadership. :smallamused:

[Feint's End]

This is a nonbo. "A thrallherd cannot take the Leadership feat; if the character already has it, the feat is lost and replaced by this ability."

As Jeff the Green said ... just take one of the variaton feats. The sentence should be "Take on of the Leadership variants (undead or draconic come to mind) and go to town". While clearly not intended it doesn't really matter anymore at the point where we talking Thrallherd and StP Erudite.

[Amphetryon]

For like, 4 minutes a day. It doesn't seem THAT awesome. Are you typically in more than 40 rounds of combat per day, in a group with an Io7V? How are the encounters structured - and what's the party and campaign like - to make that a common occurrence?

[ArqArturo]

Assassin. Because that's his motto.

[Mr.Bookworm]

For like, 4 minutes a day. It doesn't seem THAT awesome. Especially since Dispel Magic destroys it (and not the way you can dispel anything, but like, casting Dispel Magic on it just gets rid of it without fuss).

Four times a day, seven minutes per use (70 if you're using the wall option), and two veils per warding. That will easily last you for the standard amount of encounters per day and if you can afford to run on the 15-minute workday, you can throw up every veil you have at once.

Also, Dispel Magic only destroys the violet veil. All of the veils need a different spell to destroy them, most of which are bizarrely unintuitive and normally unoptimal. Since you can layer two veils, you can just put a certain veil behind another one if you think it could be countered.


For the amount of party wipes it's likely caused, I'd reckon Frenzied Berserker deserves a mention.

Frenzy is fairly easy to counter. Will save boosters, Calm Emotions, or a bag of marbles will do the trick.

[GreenETC]

For like, 4 minutes a day. It doesn't seem THAT awesome. Especially since Dispel Magic destroys it (and not the way you can dispel anything, but like, casting Dispel Magic on it just gets rid of it without fuss).
Actually, each veil lasts either 1 minute/level or 10 minutes/level if it's a wall. If you're going to be using the personal veils, you've got 4 uses of something that lasts 7 minutes each time. That's 280 rounds in total, way more than anyone would ever expect to see.

Plus the violet veil requires a successful Dispel Magic, which means they need to make a CL check to beat your CL, since the veils use your CL. If you want to be a stickler, you could even claim that it is only beaten by the lower level Dispel Magic, or even say the Unimpeachable Abjuration ability increases the Dispel DC of your veil, though that's stretching it.

[Flickerdart]

Assassin. Because that's his motto.
The Assassin PrC isn't actually all that good at assassinating people.

[hymer]

For like, 4 minutes a day. It doesn't seem THAT awesome. Especially since Dispel Magic destroys it (and not the way you can dispel anything, but like, casting Dispel Magic on it just gets rid of it without fuss).

Isn't it about a handful of uses per day, 1 minute per level per use? And it can be raised as an immediate action? And isn't more vulnerable to dispels than spells are? Or am I remembering wrong?

Edit: Swordsaged all over the place.

[Ace Nex]

Personal favorite is Jade Phoenix Mage (you lose some caster levels but it's just fun, especially with the maneuvers and later Abjurent Champion you can be a pretty solid Gish), Disciple of Dispatcher (8-20 crit range with lightning maces allows infinite chaining of attacks), Incantrix/IOtSFV (Abjuration everywhere!) and Runescarred Berserker (Because everyone loves the barbarian who gets polymorph)

[DementedFellow]

Would Walker in the Waste make the list?

[Humble Master]

Would Walker in the Waste make the list? I would think so. Dry Lich is pretty awesome.

[Venger]

people mentioned all the good ones already (planar shepherd, IOTSV, incantatrix, beholder mage, and illithid savant)

Moonspeaker: druid +. this is what you do when planar shepherd is too much, but druid isn't enough. lets metamagic feats and item creation feats count as shifter feats, progresses AC, wild shape, and casting. can hold his own in a party with these other borked classes.

sovereign speaker: while the 2 dead levels do put him miles behind any of the other T0s and T-1s mentioned in this thread, having access to NI domains is a pretty ruinous trick on top of a cleric chassis.

soul manifester: theurgic classes, as everyone knows, kind of blow. however, manifesters feel the burn of lost MLs a lot less than casters do for lost CLs. plus there are a number of ways to make use of any number of infinite PP tricks with soul manifester (not that it's unique to this class, any manifester can do them, the thread was just for prcs)

[Kuulvheysoon]

people mentioned all the good ones already (planar shepherd, IOTSV, incantatrix, beholder mage, and illithid savant)

Moonspeaker: druid +. this is what you do when planar shepherd is too much, but druid isn't enough. lets metamagic feats and item creation feats count as shifter feats, progresses AC, wild shape, and casting. can hold his own in a party with these other borked classes.

Unfortunately, it does not.

Which makes it one of the best places to use the Beast Spirit ACF presented in the same book.

[Ninja PieKing]

What book is illithid savant from?

[eggynack]

What book is illithid savant from?
Savage Species, page 77.

[Rubik]

What book is illithid savant from?Savage Species. It allows an illithid (or something shapeshifted into an illithid) to gain skills, feats, and racial and class abilities from the brains it eats.

[Phelix-Mu]

This is a nonbo. "A thrallherd cannot take the Leadership feat; if the character already has it, the feat is lost and replaced by this ability."

I just have my character take Leadership and have the cohort take Thrallherd. Works pretty well.

EDIT: Several of the other PrC in Savage Species are pretty silly, too. None quite measure up to Illithid Savant. I am a fan of Siren and...what was it called, Swarmshaper?

[eggynack]

I just have my character take Leadership and have the cohort take Thrallherd. Works pretty well.
Sure. There's ways around it, and several of them have been mentioned. I'd generally prefer to use recursive thrallherds instead of leadership within thrallherds. When your thrallherds start getting double thrallherds, things start to get pretty crazy. You could do worse than an entire army of psionic characters of various types.