[3.5] Boosting Hit Points for Undead

[Thurbane]

A lot of undead tend to suffer from poor HP - even though they get a d12, they get no Con to add to the roll.

Short of a handful of undead that get Unholy Toughness as a special ability (Cha bonus to hit points per HD), what other ways are there to add HP to undead? I'm not talking temp HP or Fast Healing (there are quite a few ways to get these), but adding to base hit points.

Feats like Toughness and Improved Toughness work, but are very sub optimal. A Toad familiar adds a mere 3 hit points. Faerie Mysteries Initiate adds Int bonus to HP per hit die, but is a regional feat, and fairly cheesy to boot.

All thoughts and discussion welcome.

Cheers - T

[Jeff the Green]

Corpsecrafter and Dread Necromancer 8 both give +2 hp/HD to undead you create. Creating them in a desecrated area gives an additional +1 hp/HD. Put together, that's +5 hp/HD, which should be plenty. It probably puts them on the same ground as your typical barbarian.

[Menzath]

Would the undead be ones that you make, or is your character becoming undead?

As a side sometimes giving undead Temp HP can be effective, Sword of darkness can be effective in giving A undead a constant HP boost.
And if the undead in question is a caster the reserve feat minor shapeshift can be fantastic (Temp hp=HD every turn as a swift action).

But yeah sometimes that's just not enough. And undead can be hard to heal if you aren't a cleric, which is why the metamagic feat lord of uttercold can be great, and since a pre-req is energy substitution-cold, you can just throw out walls of coldfire all day and with a resist energy cold(or mass version) you(if you are undead) or your minions get a bit of health every time any of those effects would deal damage. And wall of coldfire was just an example of course, you could use any spell with an energy descriptor, just the ones with non instantaneous durations work best.

[The Viscount]

Corpsecrafter and Dread Necromancer 8 both give +2 hp/HD to undead you create. Creating them in a desecrated area gives an additional +1 hp/HD. Put together, that's +5 hp/HD, which should be plenty. It probably puts them on the same ground as your typical barbarian.

The lesser deadwalker's ring adds +2 hp/HD, though it's crafted with desecrate, so likely won't stack. In any case, it's cheap enough to replace desecrate, so total of +6 hp/HD is more than most.

[Andion Isurand]

the Minor Shapeshift feat can help, if your undead is a caster.

[eggynack]

The lesser deadwalker's ring adds +2 hp/HD, though it's crafted with desecrate, so likely won't stack. In any case, it's cheap enough to replace desecrate, so total of +6 hp/HD is more than most.
I was going to say that the ring being desecrate based shouldn't have any effect, but it turns out that it doesn't stack. In particular, there's the line,"This benefit doesn't stack with the extra hit points granted by the desecrate spell." The line is in reference to the regular deadwalker's ring, because I actually haven't found anything called a lesser deadwalker's ring. If the ring exists, and this caveat isn't there, the combination should work. Otherwise, tragedy shall befall us all.

[Debihuman]

Add a template that maximizes hit points.

Debby

[The Viscount]

I was going to say that the ring being desecrate based shouldn't have any effect, but it turns out that it doesn't stack. In particular, there's the line,"This benefit doesn't stack with the extra hit points granted by the desecrate spell." The line is in reference to the regular deadwalker's ring, because I actually haven't found anything called a lesser deadwalker's ring. If the ring exists, and this caveat isn't there, the combination should work. Otherwise, tragedy shall befall us all.
I'm sorry. I was mixing the deadwalker's right with the ring of desecration, of which there are lesser and greater versions. The deadwalker's indeed does not stack, so we remain at a total of +6 hp per HD using it instead of desecrate, which is still pretty good.

Add a template that maximizes hit points.

Debby

Would you care to provide an example besides paragon? I can't say I remember any other.

[Zanos]

Any undead created with Plague of Undead have maximum hit points for their HD. Considering it only creates skeletons and zombies how applicable it is here is questionable, but there it is.

[Thurbane]

Corpsecrafter and Dread Necromancer 8 both give +2 hp/HD to undead you create. Creating them in a desecrated area gives an additional +1 hp/HD. Put together, that's +5 hp/HD, which should be plenty. It probably puts them on the same ground as your typical barbarian.
How many of these, if any, would work with a Necropolitan, Lich or Vampire, for example?

[Zanos]

How many of these, if any, would work with a Necropolitan, Lich or Vampire, for example?

You could get +6/HD if a DN 8 with corpsecrafter creates a necropolitian in an area with a desecrated altar. Same for vampire.

If you consider a Lich to create itself you could get the same, but it would have to be a DN. If the Lich isn't a DN, the max is +4/HD with the corpsecrafter feat and a desecrated altar. Is there an item anywhere that gives corpsecrafter as a bonus feat? Would certainly by useful in that occasion.

[Jeff the Green]

You could get +6/HD if a DN 8 with corpsecrafter creates a necropolitian in an area with a desecrated altar. Same for vampire.

If you consider a Lich to create itself you could get the same, but it would have to be a DN. If the Lich isn't a DN, the max is +4/HD with the corpsecrafter feat and a desecrated altar. Is there an item anywhere that gives corpsecrafter as a bonus feat? Would certainly by useful in that occasion.

+3/HD for DN8 in a desecrated area (+4/HD with deadwalker's ring), actually. Corpsecrafter only applies to undead you create with a spell, and necropolitans and liches are created in rituals.

[Zanos]

+3/HD for DN8 in a desecrated area (+4/HD with deadwalker's ring), actually. Corpsecrafter only applies to undead you create with a spell, and necropolitans and liches are created in rituals.

Deadwalker's ring also specifically mentions undead created with spells, so it wouldn't function in this instance either.

[The Viscount]

How could I forget the necromancer variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#necromancerVariants)? That's another +2 hp/HD, bringing us up to a grand total of +8 hp/HD.

@Zanos: You are correct in that the effects overlap, but that is taken into account above, as the calculations are assuming a normal desecrated area without an altar.

[Spuddles]

The slow trait halves your speed but gives you 1hp per level.


+3/HD for DN8 in a desecrated area (+4/HD with deadwalker's ring), actually. Corpsecrafter only applies to undead you create with a spell, and necropolitans and liches are created in rituals.

Desecrate give you +2hp/hd if you do it right.

[Menzath]

okay not sure on the validity of this since I am AFB and no way to verify this, also found it with a fast google search.


The Faerie Mysteries Initiate feat from Dragon vol. 319, among other things, allows a character to use Intelligence instead of Constitution to determine HP.

[Spuddles]

Oh wow, forgot about faerie mysteries. That's pretty much the premier way to get more hp as a zombie.

[Zanos]

How could I forget the necromancer variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#necromancerVariants)? That's another +2 hp/HD, bringing us up to a grand total of +8 hp/HD.

@Zanos: You are correct in that the effects overlap, but that is taken into account above, as the calculations are assuming a normal desecrated area without an altar.

Desecrate w/altar gives 2 hp/hd. Deadwalker's ring overlaps with that, but it would not work with Liches, Vampires, or Necropolitan creation because it explicitly calls out undead created with spells. Desecrate does not have the "with spells" text, so it works while Deadwalker's does not. You would need to get a desecrated altar if you wanted to Lich/Vampire/Necro yourself.