Help with a CW Samurai...Multiclass?

[Rolaran]

Hi!

I'm currently playing a Complete Warrior Samurai. Our DM (who is incredible) has actually rearranged part of his homebrew world to include the region of Jin-Rai, which is apparently a feudal Japan, and my samurai's homeland. He also figured out what god a samurai would worship - Sun Tzu. At one point, my samurai died, and spent some time in the afterlife chatting with Sun Tzu (before being returned to the living by a lucky roll on a variant rule.)

So, I now have this samurai, who not only worships, but has actually met Sun Tzu. I'm planning to multiclass to Marshal (a class available on the Wizards official D&D website) either when I hit ninth level or eleventh level. It would make sense story-wise; I can have my character decide to get a copy of Sun Tzu's "Art of War", and study the battle techniques of his god.

Now, the things I like about the Marshal class (aside from it fitting my character story so well) are the fact that the auras will be nice and strong (my samurai has high charisma, which I plan to boost further at eighth level), the extra skill points (my guy is kinda suffering for skills at the moment) and the bonus to Will saves. The things I like more about the Samurai are the higher BAB, and the mass staredown ability at level 10.

So, my question is this: When should I multiclass? Early, and get the auras and extra skill points going as soon as possible? Or late, and get the mass staredown and a higher BAB? Keep in mind that samurai works like paladin for multiclassing, so once I leave the class, I can't take any more levels in it.

Thanks!

p.s. I know a lot of people think the Complete Warrior Samurai is a lousy class. Please don't bring that argument here, as I'm just looking for input on the decision on when to multiclass to Marshal.

[Emperor Tippy]

Multiclass to Marshal as soon as possible to get out of the crap which is the CW samurai.

[StickMan]

I would go with 9th Level. Samurai is not a great class to be truthful nor is it historicly acurate. I'm not talking about Katanna damage so much as Katanna was not, normaly, used with the wakizshi in the other hand. Also the Class is kind of weak overall. If you can retrain you may want to. Figher/Marshal would not be a bad combination for Samurai.

I honestly just hate wizard Samurai class becasue it promotes the Idea of Katanna wakizshi style being a magor one. I've only heard of one fighting school who taught it.

[Khantalas]

And only one technique that goes with dual wielding.

That's probably because carrying a katana one-handed really hurts must attacks, such as shomen uchi.

If you actually want to play a samurai class, go with kanachi's one (don't make me link it now) or with the OA one.

[Zincorium]

We need an option C: As soon as possible. Ideally, before the game begins.

[Rolaran]

Grrrr...

Listen, I am aware that nobody likes the CW Samurai class. But that's what I'm playing, and all I would like is a hand figuring out if the Mass Staredown class ability is worth waiting a couple of levels to multiclass. Feel free to recommend that I multiclass ASAP, but please give some reason beyond "Thing #29 that Wizards screwed up with the Samurai class".

[Khantalas]

Early, early, early.

Fighter is more powerful than samurai, and it's one of the most underpowered classes out there. As it has no spells.

[Emperor Tippy]

Let me repeat this. NOTHING THAT THE SAMURAI CLASS GIVES YOU IS WORTH STAYING IN IT FOR.

Multiclass as soon as possible

[unlit.candle]

In an effort to be different I say go for Mass Staredown. Its all about your character concept and what you want to do. Sure your cahracter won't be optimized but its your character. Make it what you want and have fun.

[Behold_the_Void]

I've always liked the concept of Mass Staredown. I'd say having that ability is good for a samurai flavor-wise, and you're obviously looking for a decision that fits the character as opposed to a heavily optimized build, so go for it.

[Bears With Lasers]

There is a difference between "unoptimized" and "pretty much completely useless".

[TheOOB]

Virtually anything a samurai can do, a fighter can do 10 times better, including having the samurai flavor. Taking exotic weapon proficiency(Bastard Sword) is something that is "unoptimized" that you do for flavor, taking levels in samurai is something that hurts your character. Get out of the samurai class as quickly as possible, you have an obligation to your party to create a character who is as effictive in combat as possible. It's not bad flavor or poor roleplay to be someone who plans their training and tries to be a good warrior.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Everyone else is right. However, they're also being rude about it, and since you're clearly aware of the issues with Samurai, I'll leave it alone and give the advice asked for.

Anyway, my opinion is to multiclass at 9th. Disregarding a Samurai's utility as a whole, Mass Staredown's minor debuff is far less useful than a Marshall's auras. If you're looking for an ability to aid your party in mass battles, Marshall 11 is the way to go.

[codexgigas]

Actually, I'd multiclass at eighth level. You miss out on Improved Initiative, which, while nice, isn't the greatest thing in the world and can be picked up later as one of your feats if you really want it. The kiai smite is the CW samurai's best class feature, and you're gaining a second use of it at seventh level, so I don't see any reason to stay in the class longer than that.

Mass staredown isn't that useful, and certainly isn't worth waiting for. Demoralizing opponents is nice, but it only lasts for a single round, when the party spellcasters can produce similar effects that last much longer. I've never really looked at the marshall class, but I'd imagine that getting access to auras earlier would be much more useful for your character. Plus, one of the guys in my group played a straight samurai once, just so he could get the staredown tier of skills... and never once succeeded on an intimidate check, since he never rolled higher than a three.

Ultimately though, it's your choice. Which way do you think that you'll have more fun? That's the way you should go.

[Esclados]

I recommend going straight swordsage, warblade, or crusader, depending on what flavor you're going for, and doing the rest as fluff! =p

But between the two choices, 9.

[Noneoyabizzness]

can I ask why you chose samurai in the first place?

[Matthew]

Poor old Complete Warrior Samurai. I think, as long as not every Samurai in the game world is a Two Weapon Fighter, there's nothing wrong with the odd one that is... sure, this particular Samurai Base Class incarnation is a poor choice in terms of mechanics and flavour, but so is the Knight Base Class, in my opinion.

As for when to Multi Class into Marshal, it's hard to say. I think that in some ways you might as well stay in until Level Ten and more fully explore the capabilities of this Character Class. I haven't got access to the 3.0 Oriental Adventures Samurai at the moment, but if it is possible to go Marshal for a few levels and then 3.0 Samurai, you might consider that as an option.

If Skill Points are a problem, you might consider getting the Open Minded Feat (5 Skill Points) at Level Nine or else some sort of Skill Focus (+3 to one Skill or +2 to two).

[Bosh]

Oh dear god, the CW samuri scares me deeply. Why the hell don't they give it the ability that gives it Improved Two Weapon fighting at level 6?!?!?

If you're 7th level now I'd probably recommend plugging away until level 10 for the mass staredown unless you don't have the dex for improved two weapon fighting, in which case probably 11th woud be good.

In any case look at the PHB II for the feat that lets you automatically intimidate people when you hit them, awesome flavor for a samuri.

[Rolaran]

Thanks for the advice.

I'll probably multiclass sooner rather than later; mass staredown is cool story-wise, but if people who have tried it don't find it very useful, I'd rather have the marshal auras.

[rsalyerds]

I agree that the CW Samurai isn't really the greatest build of a True Samurai, but that doesn't mean you can't be happy with your character. I've been playing a "Samurai" for over 3 years now and am up to 18th lvl. Right now I'm Monk 3/CW Samurai 11/Singh(Lion) Rager 4. The levels in monk give me the ability to fight without weapons which is historically accurate and also improved saving throws, plus evasion!!! Singh Rager gives me incredible Kiai shout abilities/Rage similar to barbarians/ and a full attack after a charge(pretty butch). Then there's the mass staredown, Eh....after i picked up the Singh rager class I started using it less, but it still has it's coolness factor. If you run into 20 orcs, who wouldn't want to scare them all by mearly glancing at them?? It depends on what you want your character to be. I personally wanted to play a Samurai who wielded 2 katanas, so I took Oversized TW Fighting. Yeah maybe that's not historically accurate but doing the most amount of dmg in my group makes me happy : )

[Tengu_temp]

I love the smell of

THREAD NECROMANCY
http://instruct1.cit.cornell.edu/courses/nes275/studentproj/fall05/coj3/necromancy.jpg

in the morning.

[Chronicled]

I love the smell of

THREAD NECROMANCY
http://instruct1.cit.cornell.edu/courses/nes275/studentproj/fall05/coj3/necromancy.jpg

in the morning.

Smells like...

http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/jgeist/omg/ZombieCat.jpg

ZOMBIES!

[Gorbash]

I agree that the CW Samurai isn't really the greatest build of a True Samurai, but that doesn't mean you can't be happy with your character. I've been playing a "Samurai" for over 3 years now and am up to 18th lvl. Right now I'm Monk 3/CW Samurai 11/Singh(Lion) Rager 4. The levels in monk give me the ability to fight without weapons which is historically accurate and also improved saving throws, plus evasion!!! Singh Rager gives me incredible Kiai shout abilities/Rage similar to barbarians/ and a full attack after a charge(pretty butch). Then there's the mass staredown, Eh....after i picked up the Singh rager class I started using it less, but it still has it's coolness factor. If you run into 20 orcs, who wouldn't want to scare them all by mearly glancing at them?? It depends on what you want your character to be. I personally wanted to play a Samurai who wielded 2 katanas, so I took Oversized TW Fighting. Yeah maybe that's not historically accurate but doing the most amount of dmg in my group makes me happy : )

Can you just tell me why did you reply to a topic that's almost 2 years old? You just really wanted to tell someone about your Singh Rager, didn't you?

[Jack Zander]

How did someone even find this thread!? God, it's been buried for TWO YEARS!

EDIT: Zombie Ninjas!

[Chronicled]

EDIT: Zombie Ninjas!

Look something like this:

http://www.vinylabuse.com/wp-content/uploads/zombie_ninja.jpg

[TempusCCK]

I thought it was interesting that a thread with a poll was on the top of the page... I mean, the boards don't even have that option anymore.

Seriously though, this has to some kidn of record, has anyone ever cast "Raise Thread" on one older than this? Good lord.

[Gorbash]

Yeah maybe that's not historically accurate but doing the most amount of dmg in my group makes me happy : )

Are the rest of them Commoners?

[Chronicled]

Are the rest of them Commoners?

I was wondering that myself. Other options include:

Batman wizards without a single damage spell
Everyone else having Vow of Nonviolence/Peace

[quiet1mi]

even with the vow of nonviolence and peace they can still out damage the samurai... it will just have to be nonlethal damage and they will have to keep the enemy prisoner...

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff of Moddingham: Please don't resurrect old threads. Please don't continue posting (not even funny zombie images) in resurrected threads.