[3.5] Warlock/Spellthief

[RFLS]

Hey, everyone. General set of questions for the Playground. My DM has okay'ed using the Master Spellthief feat to stack Warlock levels with Spellthief levels for the purposes of determining spell level stolen. As such, I think I'm going to play a Spellthief 1/Warlock X. Character creation is nothing fancy, starting level 6. We have a pretty wide selection of allowable content (SRD, PHB II, the Completes, anything from Eberron, a few others), so I'm wondering...what would you do with this? My goal is to be a specialized anti-caster, sneak-attacking with eldritch blast to steal spells and dedicating my invocations to more of the same. So, questions:


What feats should I take? I'm looking to be a decent ranged combatant with a little utility.
What invocations should I look at? Same as above for limitations.
Anything I should be aware of that's not on that list?

[Snowbluff]

Eldritch Theurge would be cool.

Perhaps an Unseen Seer?

[RFLS]

Hmm...I'd have to take quite a few levels of spellthief to pull Eldritch Theurge off, and I'd have to take a level of wizard (or, more likely, sorcerer) to do Unseen Seer, unless there's something I'm missing.

[BowStreetRunner]

A word of caution - be careful about using invocations like Breath of Night (Fog Cloud effect) and Nightmares Made Real (Nightmare Terrain effect). I've seen rogues try to use the concealment from these to hide before, but then their target can take advantage of the fact that sneak attack can't be used on a target that has concealment either. While it can still be made to work you have to make sure the target is standing along the outside edge of the effect.

Darkness can be just as tricky, because although it is easier for you to get around the concealment through darkvision...it is also likely that many of your enemies will have this as well.

If you can get the save DC up, Beshadowed Blast is nice as it causes blindness for a round which will set up another sneak attack nicely. Walk Unseen of course gives you invisibility - not Greater but you can use it an unlimited number of times per day as a standard action. This is a good invocation for Quicken Spell-Like Ability once you get to Caster Level 10.

[nedz]

Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot are probably a required feat tax for doing business this way.

Deadeye Shot (PH2 p78) is an option, but it's quite limiting — one attack per round, also effectively one standard action a round.

Have you considered using the Eldritch Glaive invocation and going melee instead ? This gives you more chances to sneak and steal, at least when you have iteratives.

[Fouredged Sword]

I am going to go out in a direction and suggest mageslayer / pierce magical concelment.

You loose CL, but your are a warlock, not a wizard. You can then throw around concealment and stuff without fear of stopping your attacks.

[Nightraiderx]

Drow of the Underdark, grab darkness invocation
Grab Blend into Shadows feat, hide as a swift action using the darkness SLA to fuel it.

If you are evil, grab eldritch theruge with an assassin dip, alittle bit of a faster progression.

[Fouredged Sword]

A spellthief 1 / warlock 1 / human(or elf) paragon 3 / trapsmith 1 going for a thurge class could be interesting.

Ok, general idea is a trickster who ghosts forward under the cover of invisibility, then traps the area around the enemy.

Setting a trap shouldn't trigger your invisibility, so you can use your traps to make attacks without revealing yourself.

[RFLS]

I am going to go out in a direction and suggest mageslayer / pierce magical concelment.

You loose CL, but your are a warlock, not a wizard. You can then throw around concealment and stuff without fear of stopping your attacks.


Drow of the Underdark, grab darkness invocation
Grab Blend into Shadows feat, hide as a swift action using the darkness SLA to fuel it.

If you are evil, grab eldritch theruge with an assassin dip, alittle bit of a faster progression.

I'm liking these two... especially that first feat. I hadn't considered that yet. Eldritch Theurge would require me to take 3 levels of Assassin, right?


A spellthief 1 / warlock 1 / human(or elf) paragon 3 / trapsmith 1 going for a thurge class could be interesting.

Ok, general idea is a trickster who ghosts forward under the cover of invisibility, then traps the area around the enemy.

Setting a trap shouldn't trigger your invisibility, so you can use your traps to make attacks without revealing yourself.

I'll definitely keep that in mind for when he lets us use PrCs. Part of the whole setting involves us unlocking certain content from the books (which, given the really wide initial base, is pretty reasonable). I'm not entirely sure trapsmith works for this character, but....hm.

[Fouredged Sword]

If you go the trapsmith route, get a sizing heavy crossbow. It ends up dealing 8d6 damage. Take the bolts and attach little flags that say bang.

The look on the BBEG's face when he tries to figure out how someone hid a ballista into his bathroom is priceless.

[Nightraiderx]

That I don't know off the top of my head, but the extra Assassin levels will definately help your sneak attack needed to steal more spells. And all those arcane levels count as your caster level, so by the time you end eldritch theruge you'll have quite a nice caster level for your assassin side. Another good late game end game prestiege class is spell-warp sniper, which gives SA and at the end of it you can turn up to any 4th level spell as a ranged touch spell, which I believe eldritch theruge has alot of mixing of both sides of your casting.

If you want a melee damage variant that's nice, you can get eldritch claw shape evocation, although I do not remember which book that is in.

[RFLS]

That I don't know off the top of my head, but the extra Assassin levels will definately help your sneak attack needed to steal more spells. And all those arcane levels count as your caster level, so by the time you end eldritch theruge you'll have quite a nice caster level for your assassin side. Another good late game end game prestiege class is spell-warp sniper, which gives SA and at the end of it you can turn up to any 4th level spell as a ranged touch spell, which I believe eldritch theruge has alot of mixing of both sides of your casting.

If you want a melee damage variant that's nice, you can get eldritch claw shape evocation, although I do not remember which book that is in.

Definitely going to stick with ranged damage for now, but yeah, Assassin's *shudder* actually looking kinda nice for this. Never thought I'd see Assassin as an optimal choice for a class.

[Snowbluff]

Definitely going to stick with ranged damage for now, but yeah, Assassin's *shudder* actually looking kinda nice for this. Never thought I'd see Assassin as an optimal choice for a class.

Keep in mind the class is pretty much strictly better than a straight rogue.

[RFLS]

Keep in mind the class is pretty much strictly better than a straight rogue.

Yeah... I really wish ToB were on the table for this one. A one or two level dip into Swordsage would probably help quite a bit here, as well as giving him some good swift action options.

[RFLS]

Okay! The DM has okay'ed using Practiced Spellcaster for the Warlock's Eldritch Blast, so I'll be going Spellthief 1/Warlock 5/Assassin 3/Eldritch Theurge ~, it looks like. Hardly optimal, but I'll have decent Sneak Attack and Eldritch Blast. Any suggestions to throw on top of it?

[Fouredged Sword]

Craven is a must.

Maybe master spellthief for casting in light armor and high assassin CL.

Darkstalker...

[RFLS]

Craven is a must.

Maybe master spellthief for casting in light armor and high assassin CL.

Darkstalker...

I actually managed to hit all of those. I've also got Blend into Shadows and Practiced Spellcaster for free Sneak Attack and full EB progression.

[BowStreetRunner]

If you can keep the DC respectably high, Beshadowed Blast is a decent Eldritch Essence choice for your build - a round of blindness almost ensures a sneak attack against the target on the following round.

The Devil's Sight invocation can work with the Darkness invocation to allow you access to concealment to make Hide checks while preventing the same concealment from negating your sneak attacks.

Of course, Walk Unseen is your go-to for invisibility (especially if you don't expect to gain Dark invocations and Retributive Invisibility).

[RFLS]

If you can keep the DC respectably high, Beshadowed Blast is a decent Eldritch Essence choice for your build - a round of blindness almost ensures a sneak attack against the target on the following round.

The Devil's Sight invocation can work with the Darkness invocation to allow you access to concealment to make Hide checks while preventing the same concealment from negating your sneak attacks.

Of course, Walk Unseen is your go-to for invisibility (especially if you don't expect to gain Dark invocations and Retributive Invisibility).

I actually picked up the Darkness invocation and the Blend into Shadows feat. Swift action Hide check by spending a use of my darkness SLA. I think it ends up beating out the other options late game, as I'm just making an opposed skill roll and don't have to worry about people piercing magical darkness or dispelling it or being immune to stuff.