[3.5] Inspiration for caster Druids?

[Norin]

Greetings!

So ive seen alot of threads on arcane spell combos and funny ways to kill commoners with wizards.

Ive also seen alot of Druid discussions, handbooks and build threads. Alot of them are suggestions like "Be a bear, riding a bear, shooting bears", planar shepherd shenanigans, cast extended creeping cold, fell drain produce flame, wildshape to a bird and rain down death on encounters, fleshraker(s) with venomfire, etc.

But what i am looking for in this thread is a bit of a fresh breath and brainstorming about tactics, tricks, spell combos and such for Druids in play.

As i am playing a bit of a caster druid myself nowdays that does not focus mainly on summons, animal companion or wildshape - but rather keeps those options there as utility and backup - i'm looking for inspiration for caster focused things.

Here is an old thread (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868806/Druid_Spell_Combos) that has alot of good suggestions, but i know there are a lot of bright minds out there that has more fun ideas that i have not seen or been able to come up with myself.

What good spell combos do you use on your druids?
What metamagic gives you alot of mileage in new exciting ways?
What new and fresh tactics do you use?
What unusual spells or combinations do you use for great effect?

Feel free to share your ideas and in-game proven tactics, combos and funny new ways of using the druid casting\features both in encounters or during downtime.

Or has the druid spell list been exhausted, as far as new things to do, through the many threads before this one? Or is the Druid caster just too limited compared to ye olde Wizard or Sorcerer?

[Psyren]

Druids make good blasters, even in core. One common tactic for caster druids is to wildshape into a bird of some kind and rain destruction from on high.

Druids are great at control even at low levels thanks to spells like Entangle, Fog Cloud, Soften Earth & Stone and the like.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Don't just use direct damage. Druids have some of the best crowd control spells, like sleet storm and stone to mud and the dozen or so ways to make fog. You can also use your spontaneous summoning to drop animals wherever it's inconvenient for your enemies.

[Amphetryon]

For campaigns without a high Op-Fu ceiling, I tend to prefer using the Druid's spell list to buff either the Animal Companion, or the party Tank, as it makes the Druid's contributions meaningful without making anyone feel useless. Alternately, there's a small but useful number of Druid spells for de-buffing the enemy without being strictly BFC, giving your allies an easier time dispatching adversaries without feeling like they're attacking wooden training dummies.

[Darrin]

Spell advice (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12183941#post12183941) for Druidzillas.

Combos:

Fire Eyes + Wall of Smoke. This works mostly due to a RAW technicality (fire eyes says it doesn't work against magical fog, but doesn't mention magical smoke). Can also be used with smokestick, liquid smoke (Oriental Adventures), pyrotechnics, or Eversmoking Bottle. Doesn't last as long as snowsight, but spell levels are lower.

Faerie Fire + Obscuring Mist/Fog Cloud. Paint your enemies, then force them into melee. You and your allies get concealment, they don't. You can also use alicorn lance (Silver Marches Web Enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20020719a)): ranged touch attack, 3d6 force damage, and target is outlined with faerie fire.

Snowsight + Obscuring Snow. Cast snowsight on the entire party, and you've got a nice little 30' radius murderblizzard. At higher levels, the 1 hour/CL means you can pretty much have it up almost the entire day.

Spore Field + Entangle. If the DM is trying to nerf you by insisting there are not enough plants around to cast entangle, then spore field creates fungi = plants = entangle-able terrain. At least, that was my solution before I took a closer look at impeding stones (Cityscape), and I think that's a better all-around spell than entangle, and the DM has to really go out of his way to make sure you're not standing on brick, stone, or earth.

Creeping Cold + Extend Spell. This is just filthy. 21d6 damage over 6 rounds. If you add Fairy Dust (optional material component, Complete Mage) you can extend it without increasing the spell level for only 100 GP.

Produce Flame + Wall of Thorns/Drifts of the Shalm/Web. Well, anything flammable, really (oil, incendiary slime, etc.). Leaves from drifts of the shalm do 2d6 fire damage no save/no SR. Casting web is considerably trickier, as it's Sor/Wiz and even the monstrous spiders that can do it as a special attack aren't on your summon lists, but you can try UMD'ing a wand or picking up the Magic domain (Planar Touchstone -> Catalogues of Enlightenment). Or try the Web Choker (2700 GP, FR Underdark) for nine web spheres you can throw up to 70' (300 GP each). If you need to light something quickly, try getting your hands on a wand of Kaupaer's Quickblast (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050112a).

Sunstroke + Fell Drain. 2d6 nonlethal damage + negative level. Oh, you made the Fort save? Yeah, that was just for fatigue. Thunderhead (Spell Compendium) is also nifty, especially if you get them more than once, but it does nothing on a successful Ref save.

[SamsDisciple]

I was considering doing this exact same thing (playing a caster druid that isn't stealing the spotlight yet still very capable) and so first I just want to thank the OP for starting this thread


Spell advice (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12183941#post12183941) for Druidzillas.

Faerie Fire + Obscuring Mist/Fog Cloud. Paint your enemies, then force them into melee. You and your allies get concealment, they don't. You can also use alicorn lance (Silver Marches Web Enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20020719a)): ranged touch attack, 3d6 force damage, and target is outlined with faerie fire.


I love this idea, its core spells so DM's can't throw books at you, it's a great mass buff/debuff without needing high levels, as a DM it would also be very interesting to see how players deal with this (rarely have I seen players in my group have a gust of wind or its like prepared)

[RFLS]

I came here expecting to answer questions about a multiclassed Druid/Factotum.

[Norin]

Alternately, there's a small but useful number of Druid spells for de-buffing the enemy without being strictly BFC, giving your allies an easier time dispatching adversaries without feeling like they're attacking wooden training dummies.

Name a few examples, kind sir?


Spell advice (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12183941#post12183941) for Druidzillas.


Thanks for the link there. Good stuff!



Combos:

Fire Eyes + Wall of Smoke. This works mostly due to a RAW technicality (fire eyes says it doesn't work against magical fog, but doesn't mention magical smoke). Can also be used with smokestick, liquid smoke (Oriental Adventures), pyrotechnics, or Eversmoking Bottle. Doesn't last as long as snowsight, but spell levels are lower.

Faerie Fire + Obscuring Mist/Fog Cloud. Paint your enemies, then force them into melee. You and your allies get concealment, they don't. You can also use alicorn lance (Silver Marches Web Enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20020719a)): ranged touch attack, 3d6 force damage, and target is outlined with faerie fire.

Snowsight + Obscuring Snow. Cast snowsight on the entire party, and you've got a nice little 30' radius murderblizzard. At higher levels, the 1 hour/CL means you can pretty much have it up almost the entire day.

Spore Field + Entangle. If the DM is trying to nerf you by insisting there are not enough plants around to cast entangle, then spore field creates fungi = plants = entangle-able terrain. At least, that was my solution before I took a closer look at impeding stones (Cityscape), and I think that's a better all-around spell than entangle, and the DM has to really go out of his way to make sure you're not standing on brick, stone, or earth.

Creeping Cold + Extend Spell. This is just filthy. 21d6 damage over 6 rounds. If you add Fairy Dust (optional material component, Complete Mage) you can extend it without increasing the spell level for only 100 GP.

Produce Flame + Wall of Thorns/Drifts of the Shalm/Web. Well, anything flammable, really (oil, incendiary slime, etc.). Leaves from drifts of the shalm do 2d6 fire damage no save/no SR. Casting web is considerably trickier, as it's Sor/Wiz and even the monstrous spiders that can do it as a special attack aren't on your summon lists, but you can try UMD'ing a wand or picking up the Magic domain (Planar Touchstone -> Catalogues of Enlightenment). Or try the Web Choker (2700 GP, FR Underdark) for nine web spheres you can throw up to 70' (300 GP each). If you need to light something quickly, try getting your hands on a wand of Kaupaer's Quickblast (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050112a).

Sunstroke + Fell Drain. 2d6 nonlethal damage + negative level. Oh, you made the Fort save? Yeah, that was just for fatigue. Thunderhead (Spell Compendium) is also nifty, especially if you get them more than once, but it does nothing on a successful Ref save.

This is exactly what i was looking for!

I ran the idea of snowsight for the whole group combined with obscuring snow, by my group and they just laughed and called me a cheesemonger. :smallbiggrin:

Is it really that cheesy?

Ive already used creeping cold + extend rod to great effect on encounters with high HP that we do not seem to be able to take out within the few first rounds. This one poor hag tried to dimenion door away and froze to death the round after.


I was considering doing this exact same thing (playing a caster druid that isn't stealing the spotlight yet still very capable) and so first I just want to thank the OP for starting this thread


No problem at all sir! I just hope we can get this thread flowing a bit with some new fresh ideas and combos.


I came here expecting to answer questions about a multiclassed Druid/Factotum.

:smallbiggrin: Sort of an unusual combination of classes, no? Might work well though. Sorry to disappoint you there.

Any list of no save and\or no sr druid spells out there btw?

[sleepyphoenixx]

Call Lightning + Ring of Mystic Lightning (MIC) + Extraordinary Concentration = 7d6 lightning damage/round as a move action from a 3rd level slot. Add in a Metamagic Rod of Sculpt Spell (MIC) to make it AoE.

SNA + Ring of the Beast (CC) + Rapid Spell = Summoning as a full round action instead of 1 round without increasing spell level.

Dragon Wild Shape + Venomfire: Steel Dragons have a poison breath

[Rebel7284]

I caster druid I think is best served by making 3 dips.

1. Holt Warden 1 for Domain Spells.
2. Sacred Exorcist 1 for Turn Undead
3. Contemplative 1 for the Spell Domain

Results:
With Companion Spellbond feat setting your animal companion to where it should be, you are only 3 levels behind in wildshape.

However you have: Domain Slots to use with Anyspell and Greater Anyspell for access to wizard spells and DMM Persist.

:)

[Norin]

Call Lightning + Ring of Mystic Lightning (MIC) + Extraordinary Concentration = 7d6 lightning damage/round as a move action from a 3rd level slot. Add in a Metamagic Rod of Sculpt Spell (MIC) to make it AoE

If i spend 3 charges from the ring, do i get +4d6 on all the lightning stikes during my next call lightning spell?

If so, nice.

[Amphetryon]

Name a few examples, kind sir?

Cloudburst, Blinding Spittle, Wall of Sand (also BFC), etc.

[Darrin]

I ran the idea of snowsight for the whole group combined with obscuring snow, by my group and they just laughed and called me a cheesemonger. :smallbiggrin:

Is it really that cheesy?


You're a druid. Cheesemonger (Ex) is one of your class abilities.

But yes, snowsight/obscuring snow does kind of completely change the battlefield, particularly if you can keep it up 8+ hours. It breaks LOS (even darkvision), so unless your enemies are standing directly next to you, they can't target you directly. They can still attack with area effects, or just pick a square and hope they get lucky. If they try to disperse the snow with wind or fire, it just comes back next round. If your DM isn't prepared to deal with it being up for the bulk of the adventuring day, then he's going to get frustrated and resort to a bunch of d-bag tricks to give all his creatures/NPCs snowsight, dispel magic at will, etc. The rest of the party could also get bored: "He can't see me? Ok, I just pepper him with arrows/bolts/orc shotputs then, until he's dead or runs out of range."



SNA + Ring of the Beast (CC) + Rapid Spell = Summoning as a full round action instead of 1 round without increasing spell level.


You can also get standard-action summons with Golden Desert Honey (300 GP, Complete Mage). If that's too expensive, there's the old "Wall of $alt" trick:

A 7th level cleric/druid/wizard can cast wall of salt to create 175 square feet of wall that's 7 inches thick. Assuming each square foot is 7/12ths of a cubic foot, that's about 102 cubic feet of salt. Per ASTM salt weighs 80 lbs per cubic foot, but that can vary anywhere between 72 to 80 lbs depending on moisture content and the size of the crystals. Call it 72 to be safe, 102 x 72 = 7344 lbs. Per the PHB p. 112, one pound of salt is worth 5 GP as a trade good, so 7344 x 5 = 36720 GP. This is actually more efficient than casting wall of iron, which produces about 113437 lbs of iron (assuming 450 lbs per cubic foot), or 11343 GP per casting.



I love this idea, its core spells so DM's can't throw books at you, it's a great mass buff/debuff without needing high levels, as a DM it would also be very interesting to see how players deal with this (rarely have I seen players in my group have a gust of wind or its like prepared)

Oh! And I forgot... Stormfire Ring (4000 GP, MIC): faerie fire 5/day for 5 rounds, plus 1d6 electricity damage (25d6 damage/day, no save). And Torch Bug Paste (25 GP, Complete Scoundrel), thrown as a splash weapon, non-magical faerie fire effect.

[Vaz]

I like playing 'Gish' druids, trading the AC and Wild Shape for pure spellcasting, rage, and monk abilities. Quarterstaff, Spikes, Entangling Staff, Divine Power, Bite of the Werebear, Spellstaff etc

Druid 10/Contemplative 1/Sovereign Speaker 9.

Alternatively, a Wu Jen Theurge, to get Giant Size.

[Norin]

Putting this here because it's sort of a "druid trick":

The Musk Creeper Zombie Factory (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289516)

It's an old idea really, but the gist of it is described in above thread and taken futher with templates and such by Khatoplebas in an earlier thread from way back:

Yellow Ivy (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868846/Yellow_Ivy_-_The_Necromancer_in_the_Vines_Naturally_Cheesy_Bui ld)

[nedz]

I like playing 'Gish' druids, trading the AC and Wild Shape for pure spellcasting, rage, and monk abilities. Quarterstaff, Spikes, Entangling Staff, Divine Power, Bite of the Werebear, Spellstaff etc

Druid 10/Contemplative 1/Sovereign Speaker 9.

Alternatively, a Wu Jen Theurge, to get Giant Size.

Elf Druid (Deadly Hunter + Avenger) 5 / Seeker of the Misty Isle 9
Solid Skills (Spot, Listen, Survival, ...), Travel and Magic Domains
Does cost you a caster level though.
Exit into Holt Warden, Contemplative or simply more Druid.

[Vaz]

Apart from the Elf Bit, I like that build, you lose less CL than mine did.

[nedz]

Apart from the Elf Bit, I like that build, you lose less CL than mine did.

Elf is required for SotMI, well you could go half-elf but Elves get +2 Spot and Listen.

[Vaz]

Yeah, I know the mechanics requires it, sadly.

[Norin]

Any good advice for mid level caster druid vs a bbeg that seems to have serious amounts of energy resistances, sr, dr, etc?

Is a small army of buffed animals and elementals the way to go here and hope to get through the Dr?

[eggynack]

Any good advice for mid level caster druid vs a bbeg that seems to have serious amounts of energy resistances, sr, dr, etc?

Is a small army of buffed animals and elementals the way to go here and hope to get through the Dr?
That'd be my first shot at it, yeah. Tossing an animal growth onto a cluster of animals should be enough to get past the DR, and summoning bypasses most other defenses. There could be some improvements with more information though. For example, how big is the bbeg, and what does he actually do? There's a good chance that a giant crocodile, sized up with animal growth, and potentially boosted by augment summoning, will be able to just hold onto him forever. If the guy mostly casts, that shuts down most of what he does, and if the guy mostly punches, it's enough to keep him out of your hair for awhile. What level are you anyways? That can make all the difference sometimes. Finally, if you have solid book access, that can also be helpful.

I mean, if you're high enough level, then you can always toss out the wall of elementals. Basically, you use a belt of battle, combined with golden desert honey, and maybe combined with a ring of the beast, and use both of your summonings to toss out 1d4+1 elementals of some size. You summon them surrounding the enemy, and he's basically stuck there being pummeled by elementals. At the minimum rolls, you're stuck with surrounding him on the ground only, but if you get at least five, you can make one of your summonings air elementals, and cover the sky as well. There's not much that can get through something like that. Also, if you're a dire tortoise, you can do that in the surprise round.

[TuggyNE]

Any good advice for mid level caster druid vs a bbeg that seems to have serious amounts of energy resistances, sr, dr, etc?

Is a small army of buffed animals and elementals the way to go here and hope to get through the Dr?

It depends on the DR, but you can probably find summons to break a fair number of DR types on their own, and spells to enhance their natural weapons (hopefully en masse) for a few more.

[Norin]

I suspect it to be some sort of giant snake like creature, so not sure if grappling or tripping would be very good.

Think it's located in a tower or dungeon and im not sure we can get to new resources before we encounter it. It's a time limit on this thing so we need to get to it and stop it quite quickly now.

I'll try to set up a list of summons and buffs then and swarm it with some heavy hitters and see where it goes.

I think our wizard has some polymorph ideas along the same lines.

Also, no idea if the bbeg is a caster or what.

[eggynack]

I suspect it to be some sort of giant snake like creature, so not sure if grappling or tripping would be very good.

Think it's located in a tower or dungeon and im not sure we can get to new resources before we encounter it. It's a time limit on this thing so we need to get to it and stop it quite quickly now.

I'll try to set up a list of summons and buffs then and swarm it with some heavy hitters and see where it goes.

I think our wizard has some polymorph ideas along the same lines.

Also, no idea if the bbeg is a caster or what.
Well, depending on the size, the wall of elementals might need to be of the between you and him type, rather than of the surrounding him type. You could also make it a wall of animals, so that you can add animal growth to the mix. Anyway, the main idea is that he can't really attack you, because there is a pile of summons in the way. Defensive summoning is a rather cool thing. After that, it doesn't matter so much how much damage the animals do, so long as the snake can't get to you. Alternatively, if you're at level eleven, you can earthquake the tower with an oread. That could be pretty cool. Their whole Sp list is pretty great in an entirely stone based environment, actually.

[Norin]

Moon Elf caster focused druid that does not focus on summons... And yes, i know this is not the most world breaking, earth shattering combo of race\feats i could have picked, but i'm somewhat limiting myself intentionaly.

Hitting lvl 9 now, suggestion for feats?

1: Fearless (Regional feat)
3: Imp. Init.
6: Natural Spell
9:
- Spell Penetration (we have encountered quite a bit of SR heavy monsters)?
- Initiate of Nature (i like the rebuke\command plant and animals and the few spells this feat adds are flavourful and nice)

I already have lessser extend rod(s) available, so i'm not ging for extend spell.

Also, no Eberron feats.

Also thinking of getting Swift Concentration skill trick to be able to have a tad better action economy when using things like call lightning (greater).