Changing a PC to NPC

[Perseus]

Does anyone have any houserules regarding a PC doing something (probably bad) and the DM rules that the PC is now a NPC?

Is there any official rules on that?

[TuggyNE]

Does anyone have any houserules regarding a PC doing something (probably bad) and the DM rules that the PC is now a NPC?

Is there any official rules on that?

There are a few cases where specific mechanical effects say (explicitly or implicitly) "and now you're an NPC", but it's not terribly common. Other than that, it's mostly a matter of group consensus, since the only relevant thing for the purpose of the game is that the person who was playing the character, and presumably would still like to, isn't any longer.

[Sylthia]

Are we talking a PC doing something bad in game or out of game?

[Perseus]

Are we talking a PC doing something bad in game or out of game?

In game of course, who does thing in game for out of game stuff?

[SethoMarkus]

Regardless of whether there is a rule for this or not, I would suggest talking it over with the player first. It seems, from the limited information, to be more of a DM-Player communication/relationship issue than an in-game mechanics issue.

If, for example, the player decided that the PC was going to sit in a library and conduct research for 5 years, while the rest of the party wanted to continue on adventuring, then I would suggest speaking with the player to create a new PC while the original character is researching (in essence retiring the old PC into an NPC).

However, if, for example, the player created a CE barbarian who uses his battleaxe to say hello to every villager in town, and the rest of the party are LG clerics and paladins, I would still suggest talking to the player out-of-game and explaining that this character isn't a good fit and if he would consider rolling up a new, more party-appropriate character.

Though I am sure there are several "rules legal" ways of turning a PC into an NPC, I always viewed that type of conversion in the realm of DM fiat.

[Sylthia]

In game of course, who does thing in game for out of game stuff?

I'm not sure I'm alone in having people leave a group for out of game drama. In that case you might be wondering what to do with their PC.

[Humble Master]

I think it might help if you gave us some background as to why you want to change a PC into an NPC. Also, as stated above it is generally a bad idea to just take control of a player's character.

[kreenlover]

Only one I can actually think of is from the Star Wars Saga Edition. If your dark side score was ever equal to your wisdom score, then bye bye character, they become an NPC

[BowStreetRunner]

I have always maintained a house rule in my games to the effect that you can be an anti-hero (protagonist who is evil) but not a villain (antagonist) in the story. So once you become the BBEG that everyone is after, you become an NPC.

In fact, the only time this has ever been invoked in a game in which I was involved, I was actually the player whose character became an NPC. That PC (cleric of Nerull) very much deserved to be considered a villain at that point, and I very much enjoyed the chance to play a new character in the party as my old PC became their arch-nemesis. I never complained to the DM about the decision to turn my character NPC - in fact, I fully supported the decision. There were no hard feelings between the players either - even though my character had killed all of theirs (they got better), it was all definitely 'in-game' interaction.

[qwertyu63]

My rule is very simple:
If your character becomes evil, make a new one.

That's it.

[Zanos]

If your taint or depravity scores(from Heroes of Horror) get too high, the PC explicitly falls under control of the DM.

[ArqArturo]

I think there are rules (I know there were in the d20 version of Star Wars before the appearance of the Dark Side splatbook, and the Saga Edition) regarding this, but I usually employ this when the player gets absent a lot, or when the player won't be able to come in a long time (travel, fed up, work, etc.).

However, my most common trick is that the PCs turn into sacks of potatoes, which makes for interesting roleplaying sessions when one of the PCs insists that the sack of potatoes are actually people.


There were no hard feelings between the players either - even though my character had killed all of theirs (they got better), it was all definitely 'in-game' interaction.

Massive Party Optimization?.

[Perseus]

Only one I can actually think of is from the Star Wars Saga Edition. If your dark side score was ever equal to your wisdom score, then bye bye character, they become an NPC

Interesting, I'll need to look into star wars saga. Now if anyone had a 3.5 alignment point system to work it in...




I have always maintained a house rule in my games to the effect that you can be an anti-hero (protagonist who is evil) but not a villain (antagonist) in the story. So once you become the BBEG that everyone is after, you become an NPC.

In fact, the only time this has ever been invoked in a game in which I was involved, I was actually the player whose character became an NPC. That PC (cleric of Nerull) very much deserved to be considered a villain at that point, and I very much enjoyed the chance to play a new character in the party as my old PC became their arch-nemesis. I never complained to the DM about the decision to turn my character NPC - in fact, I fully supported the decision. There were no hard feelings between the players either - even though my character had killed all of theirs (they got better), it was all definitely 'in-game' interaction.

I like the distinction between anti-hero and villain.




My rule is very simple:
If your character becomes evil, make a new one.

That's it.

But from what I could find, no matter the actions there is no real rules for changing a PCs alignment. Unless there is something I'm missing, you can rule 0 it I guess...



I think it might help if you gave us some background as to why you want to change a PC into an NPC. Also, as stated above it is generally a bad idea to just take control of a player's character.

There is no specific reason, I'm not running a game right now either. Mostly just curious as to how people handle it.

[Karnith]

But from what I could find, no matter the actions there is no real rules for changing a PCs alignment. Unless there is something I'm missing, you can rule 0 it I guess...
A Helm of Opposite Alignment can force an alignment change onto a PC, though it's only a piddly little DC 15 Will save to resist.

[qwertyu63]

But from what I could find, no matter the actions there is no real rules for changing a PCs alignment. Unless there is something I'm missing, you can rule 0 it I guess...

If you are acting evil, I push your alignment that way. You don't get a say in the matter, you only get a warning.

[Raven777]

Don't forget. The counterbalance to rule 0 is Core Rulebook induced blunt trauma. Thread carefully.

[BowStreetRunner]

Massive Party Optimization?.

My character betrayed the rest of the party, locked them in a pit, poured oil over them all and lit the oil on fire. :smalleek: If it wasn't for divine intervention (since when is Boccob supposed to care about anything like the lives of a bunch of PCs anyway??? :smallconfused: ) that would have been the end of it.

Just goes to show you, an evil optimized tier 1 can take down the entire rest of the party by himself if he is so inclined.

[IIzak]

I actually had this situation come up in a Star Wars Saga Edition campaign I was playing in. One of the characters went full dark side and when he did the DM turned him into an NPC, but he did it in a really smart way.

Basically what happened was, he talked to the player beforehand and told him what was going to happen, they discussed it and the player agreed that his character would become an NPC because he didn't really fit with the rest of the group (He was a sith, the entire party had basically sworn to kill all the sith), so the GM got his character into a situation where it looked like he was going to die, then made us all think that this evil character had died, and our buddy rolled up a new character and went on playing; when in actuality, that OP sith lord just became our new BBEG. Oh the things we do to ourselves.

[Ravens_cry]

It's not something for 'rules', this is definitely a case by case basis. However, there is guidelines, the most important being you talk about it with the player first and get their OK, even work in some of their input. This is not, I repeat, not something you spring on the players.
Death of a character is preferable to this if done involuntarily.