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View Full Version : This is Not A Fighter Fix; It's a Rewrite [3.5, Base Class, PEACH]



Amechra
2013-07-15, 07:46 AM
The Fighter

You want me to kill WHAT? I don't get paid enough for this...

You know what a Fighter is! Don't you? They are the man on the front line, dishing out and receiving harm, all while gesturing for their allies to advance?

After all, they fight; what else would you expect them to do?

Making a Fighter
You live for your country while making some poor sap die for his.
Abilities: A Fighter strongly depends on their Strength or Dexterity when fighting, though they would be wise to look to their Constitution and Intelligence as well.
Races: Most races have Fighters in about equal numbers; everyone needs to fight, after all.
Alignment: Any; fighting is not the reserve of one morality or rule of ethics.
Starting Gold: 6d4 x 10 (150 GP)
Starting Age: as Fighter

Class Skills
A Fighter's Class Skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + int)x4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + int

Hit Dice: d10

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Art of War
1|+1|+2|+0|+0|Art of War, At the Feet of Masters, Brutal Maneuvers (1d6)|+1
2|+2|+3|+0|+0|Fighter Bonus Feat, Organize Allies|+1
3|+3|+3|+1|+1|Brutal Maneuvers (1d6, +1)|+1
4|+4|+4|+1|+1|Fighter Bonus Feat, Instinctual Guard|+1
5|+5|+4|+1|+1|Brutal Maneuvers (2d6, +1), Force Your Way Through|+2
6|+6/+1|+5|+2|+2|Fighter Bonus Feat, Demonstrate Weak Spot|+2
7|+7/+2|+5|+2|+2|Brutal Maneuvers (2d6, +2), Abortive Attempt|+2
8|+8/+3|+6|+2|+2|Fighter Bonus Feat, Legendary Prowess|+2
9|+9/+4|+6|+3|+3|Brutal Maneuvers (3d6, +2), Extensive Knowledge|+3
10|+10/+5|+7|+3|+3|Fighter Bonus Feat, Ease of Action|+3
11|+11/+6/+1|+7|+3|+3|Brutal Maneuvers (3d6, +3), Exploit Weak Spot|+3
12|+12/+7/+2|+8|+4|+4|Fighter Bonus Feat, Fierce Guard|+3
13|+13/+8/+3|+8|+4|+4|Brutal Maneuvers (4d6, +3)|+4
14|+14/+9/+4|+9|+4|+4|Fighter Bonus Feat|+4
15|+15/+10/+5|+9|+5|+5|Brutal Maneuvers (4d6, +4), Kill What Needs Be Killed|+4
16|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+5|Fighter Bonus Feat, All-Knowing Master|+4
17|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+5|Brutal Maneuvers (5d6, +4)|+5
18|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+6|Fighter Bonus Feat|+5
19|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+6|Brutal Maneuvers (5d6, +5)|+5
20|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+6|Fighter Bonus Feat|+5[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: A Fighter is proficient with all Simple and Martial Weapons, as well as all Light and Medium armors and all Shields.

At the Feet of Masters (Ex): A Fighter has forgotten more about combat than most people have even begun to learn. OK, so they haven't yet, but they are far more proficient in the basics that you will ever be.

A Fighter is considered to have every single Fighter feat that does not require another feat for the purposes of prerequisites.

Additionally, as a swift action, a Fighter may grant themselves one Fighter feat that does not require another feat as a bonus feat. They must otherwise qualify for the feat, and retain this bonus feat until they use this class feature to adopt another one.

Art of War (Ex): A Fighter is capable of taking any little advantage that they have, and exploiting it ruthlessly.

A Fighter is considered to have ability scores of at least 13 plus twice the amount given in the above column when determining whether or not they qualify for a given feat.

In addition, if a feat grants a static numeric bonus, they may use either that bonus or the amount listed in the above table, whichever would be better.

Brutal Maneuvers (Ex): A Fighter is a master of the painful takedown; whether this be breaking a man's bones while shoving them aside, grinding the face of a man they tripped into the ground, or breaking the man's own sword against their throat, well, someone who fights fair is a dead man.

At 1st level, any time a Fighter successfully performs a special attack (http://dndsrd.net/specialAttacks.html) or makes a successful attack while fighting defensively, they deal 1d6 damage to their target. This does not apply to Aid Another, but does apply as bonus damage to all attacks made while two-weapon fighting. This damage is dealt to the person holding the object in the case of Disarming or Sundering.

At 5th level, and every four levels thereafter, the amount of damage dealt is increased by 1d6.

At 3rd level, any checks or attack rolls made as part of a special attack or while fighting defensively gain a +1 bonus; in addition, any bonus granted by the special attack or due to fighting defensively may be replaced by this bonus if it would be higher.

At 7th level and every 4 levels thereafter, this bonus increases by 1.

Fighter Bonus Feat (Ex): A Fighter picks up a bunch of tricks over the years; it's only natural, after all.

At 2nd level, and every 2 level thereafter, a Fighter may take any one [Fighter] feat that they qualify for as a bonus feat.

Organize Allies (Ex): A Fighter knows how to get their friends motivated; protecting their hide is about as good as protecting your own.

At 2nd level, a Fighter may make Aid Another checks as a Immediate action. In addition, the ally may make one of the following choices:

They may lower the bonus granted to their attack rolls by 1 to gain a +2 bonus on the damage roll.
They may lower the bonus to armor class by 1 to gain an equal bonus on their saving throw against the effect targeting them.
Forgo the entire bonus to instead make a second save against a Mind-Affecting ability.


Instinctual Guard (Ex): A Fighter is capable of defending themselves against practically anything. After all, they are intended to fight, aren't they?

At 4th level, a Fighter may take an Immediate action to grant themselves a Deflection bonus to AC equal to their Strength modifier until the beginning of their next round.

Alternatively, if they are targeted by an effect that does not require an attack roll, they may, as an immediate action, force the user of that ability to make a touch attack. The touch attack is a melee touch attack if the user of the effect is threatening the Fighter in melee; if the user of the effect is not threatening the Fighter, it is a ranged touch attack instead.

If the touch attack fails, the effect fails to affect the fighter.

Force Your Way Through (Ex): You know what happens when the going gets tough? The tough get going, and the quitters quit. Guess which category fighters fall under.

At 5th level, a Fighter may ignore a number of points of damage reduction equal to their Strength modifier. In addition, reduce all penalties to attack rolls, armor class, and saves inflicted on the fighter that did not originate from the Fighter by the Fighter's strength modifier.

Demonstrate Weak Spot (Ex): A Fighter has seen many monsters and has fought many enemies; it is only appropriate that they share this knowledge with their allies.

At 6th level, a Fighter may, as a Swift action, either suppress a single immunity that a creature has, or reduce one of their non-land speed movement speeds to 0 until the beginning of the Fighter's next round. They must have successfully made an attack against that creature at least once in that round to use this ability.

Abortive Attempt (Ex): A Fighter is always keen to instruct someone in the folly of attempting to hurt them. So they hurt them.
At 7th level, a Fighter may, as an Immediate action, cause a creature attempting to use a special attack (http://dndsrd.net/specialAttacks.html) (except for two-weapon fighting or mounted combat) against them to automatically fail that action.

Legendary Prowess (Ex): A Fighter is capable of awesome deeds, each of which would boggle the mind of mere mortals.

At 8th level, a Fighter considers [Epic] feats to be [Fighter] feats for the purposes of their At the Feet of Masters class feature. For the purposes of whether or not they can gain an [Epic] feat through that class feature, a Fighter is capable of taking [Epic] feats.

However, if they select an [Epic] feat with At the Feet of Masters, any bonus feats derived from that use of that ability only lasts 1 round.

Extensive Knowledge (Ex): A Fighter is well versed in many different areas of fighting; in the ways of war, they are a Renaissance Man.

At 9th level, when a Fighter uses At the Feet of Masters to grant themselves a bonus feat, they gain two feats, subject to the restrictions of At the Feet of Masters. Alternatively, they may gain a single [Fighter] feat that has no other prerequisite feats other than those satisfied by At the Feet of Masters.

Ease of Action (Ex): A Fighter is exquisitely at ease when in battle; the clangor of steel on steel seems to focus their mind somewhat.

At 10th level, a Fighter gains a second Swift or Immediate action each round; this action may only be used as part of a Fighter class feature.

Exploit Weak Spot (Ex): A Fighter is excellent at making certain that people get hurt. It is their job, after all.

At 11th level, when using their Demonstrate Weak Spot class feature, they may also choose to suppress a single Extraordinary ability that that creature has for the same duration.

In addition, if the Fighter makes an attack against a creature, but fails the attack or to deal damage due to an immunity or extraordinary ability that the creature has, they may use Demonstrate Weak Spot immediately to suppress that feature retroactively.

Fierce Guard (Ex): A Fighter is fierce in the defense of their person. If they weren't, they wouldn't last long.

At 12th level, as long as a Fighter is benefiting from a bonus to their armor class due to Instinctual Guard, they may, as a free action able to be taken on another creature's turn, regain their Dexterity bonus to armor class and cease being flatfooted.

In addition, if they use Instinctual Guard to force another creature to make a touch attack, that creature instead has to make a normal attack roll.

Finally, if a creature makes a touch attack against them, the Fighter may, as an immediate action, force them to make a normal attack roll instead.

Kill What Needs To Be Killed (Ex): Sometimes, you need to kill something. And it needs to stick.

At 15th level, a Fighter may use Demonstrate Weak Spot to suppress Supernatural abilities, and may use it as an Immediate action.

In addition, if a creature under the effects of Demonstrate Weak Spot is killed, the duration of Demonstrate Weak Spot changes to "until that creature is brought back to life."

All-Knowing Master (Ex): A Fighter is readily capable when it comes to combat. After all, they practically live there.

At 16th level, a Fighter that uses At the Feet of Masters to gain a bonus feat gains both benefits of Extensive Knowledge. In addition, they gain a single additional bonus [Fighter] feat which requires no other feats as prerequisites except for feats granted through At the Feet of Masters when using that class feature.

Alright, I've pretty much just put this up based off what I think would be fun to play. I erred on the side of fewer abilities (most class features just enhance earlier class features, after all), but I feel that the later levels are rather dead. Any suggestions?

I also need to do something about a capstone...

Rolep
2013-07-15, 08:20 AM
Another Fighter Fix. Time to run it through the process and send it on its merry way!

Straight to the problems!

The tone of the re-write seems a bit inappropriate to me, and I feel that it might to others, as well. Its a little tongue-in-cheek and very "No Sugar Sherlock", whereas classes are normally written in a more formal style. I'm not saying its wrong, just a little out of place.


At 2nd level, and every 2 level thereafter, a Fighter may take any [Fighter] feat that they qualify for as a bonus feat.
You should specify that its a single feat! The first time that I read this, I thought, 'So you get all of them. That's wrong!'. I had to re-read it to see your meaning, even though the orginial fighter implies your intentions.


At 1st level, any time a Fighter successfully performs a special attack or makes a successful attack while fighting defensively, they deal 1d6 damage to their target. This does not apply to Aid Another, but does apply as bonus damage to all attacks made while two-weapon fighting. This damage is dealt to the person holding the object in the case of Disarming or Sundering.
So, whenever you fight with two-weapons, even when not fighting defensively, you deal a ton of extra damage. You have just telegraphed the optimal build right there. Two-weapon fighting should not be treated as a special attack (whatever the SRD says) and the bonus to its damage should only be gained when fighting defensively. Even then its a little strong, since you get more attacks to dela more damage with, but the feat cost balances this out. Also, mounted combat should not be treated as a special attack, since it's just combat with a higher move speed.


In addition, if external conditions would inflict a penalty to a Fighter's attack rolls, those penalties are reduced by their Strength modifier.
Define external conditions. Would a curse be internal, since it is within you, or external, since it was cast by someone else?

Nitpicking over!

Try this for a Capstone! It may be a little strong...

Tide of Battle (Ex): A fighter is a paragon of combat, able to turn between offense and defence in a moment's notice.

You gain a number of bonus swift/immediate actions equal to your strength modifier.

DeusMortuusEst
2013-07-15, 08:31 AM
So, whenever you fight with two-weapons, even when not fighting defensively, you deal a ton of extra damage. You have just telegraphed the optimal build right there. Two-weapon fighting should not be treated as a special attack (whatever the SRD says) and the bonus to its damage should only be gained when fighting defensively. Even then its a little strong, since you get more attacks to dela more damage with, but the feat cost balances this out.

I disagree strongly with this, TWF needs a boost to be viable for any character and bonus damage feels like the appropriate way of fixing that for the fighter. From the looks of it a fighter will deal less damage per strike than a rogue of the same level with an equal optimization of TWF, but can do so reliably each attack and against all creatures. Looks good.

Over all, this class gains a lot of interesting features but I'm not sure if it climbs all the way up to tier 3 together with the initiating classes. There's a lot of uses for swift/immediate actions, meaning that it's going to be a very tactical class to play, which I like.

Good job! I would post more, but I'm not that good at balancing homebrew.

Amechra
2013-07-15, 09:11 AM
I was aiming for Tier 3-4 anyway, so even if it didn't climb to Tier 3, I'm not overly sad.

I'll tweak that bit in the bonus feats, but I don't think I'll touch Brutal Maneuvers; keep in mind that Fighting Defensively while Two-Weapon Fighting gives you a -6 to hit in the best of circumstances.

External conditions... I'll clarify it in text; I meant "penalties that are caused by a creature other than the fighter."

Edit: And that suggested capstone is a no. Seriously, that would break this class wide open (a lot of their class features are balanced around being able to only use them 2/round, max.)

I've been thinking, and I might allow them to start getting Epic feats with At the Feet of Masters.

Because a lot of them are appropriate for Fighters. Though I might have to include boilerplate to prevent taking the same feat multiple times, considering that otherwise we're looking at a +20 to attack rolls or AC at 17th level...

Amechra
2013-07-15, 09:34 AM
Alright, updated and shipshape. Still looking for a capstone, but Legendary Prowess is at a level where you can technically get to without the game turning crazy bonkers.

EDIT: After consideration, I moved Legendary Prowess down to 8th level, and changed the limitation.

Why? Because I figured that getting +15 attack or +15 AC is just fine at 16th level.

And most epic feats aren't actually unbalanced at that level! Those that are require spellcasting to take and abuse (and by spellcasting, I mean "capable of casting the highest level of spell granted by your class").

Kornaki
2013-07-15, 09:30 PM
And at that level the fighter is certainly capable of casting the highest level spell his class can use :smalltongue:

One technical thing you might want to watch out for is that you have a nice short list of special attacks there.... but if you open up a monster stat block, they'll also have a list of special attacks. Based on your linking I assume you don't want those to count for, e.g. abortive attempt, but from the wording it sounds like it currently does

Amechra
2013-07-16, 06:27 AM
I'll probably just list them in a spoiler. That way I can be a bit more precise.

Alright, I'll change the wording; and I think I'll move it back up to 13th level, just because that puts it at a nice midpoint between Expansive Knowledge and All-Knowing Master.

Belial_the_Leveler
2013-07-16, 07:30 AM
The class is generally good and useful but there are a few major issues with some of its abilities and how they work. I'll be pointing them out now. Do note that the following abilities should be fixable with a few changes so as not to lead to the brokenness I am pointing out.




At the Feet of Masters (Ex)
So a fighter could get greater weapon focus and greater weapon specialization without actually having weapon focus or weapon specialization in their feats?


Instinctual Guard (Ex)
So they could use it against area attacks and targeted spells both but only once per round? What if a spell had multiple projectiles or effects like a magic missile having multiple bolts? Since they can only take one immediate action per round...


Force Your Way Through (Ex)
Does it reduce all penalties or each individual penalty? For example, a fighter with a strength modifier of +5 that has 6 negative levels and a curse bestowing -6 to his attack rolls (total penalty -12), does he reduce that to -7 -i.e. reducing the final penalty- or to -2 -i.e. reducing each penalty separately?


Demonstrate Weak Spot (Ex)
OK, I got to ask; how does hitting a mindless zombie make that zombie a valid target for mind-affecting effects? Or a golem/elemental without biological functions whatsoever susceptible to poison? A fire dragon susceptible to fire? Or even a wizard that cast a spell on himself to protect him from death effects suddenly unprotected? Because this ability as written can do that. Also, how long does the suppression of the immunity last?


Exploit Weak Spot (Ex)
OK, the 11th level fighter manages to act first against the 20th level fighter... and negates the 20th level fighter's "Bonus Feats" ability...
There's a reason that [Ex] abilities don't have any abilities that manipulate them in the game; feats, class abilities, pretty much any ability that isn't magic is extraordinary, meaning this ability allows the fighter to remove any enemy's class features, feats or racial abilities without allowing a saving throw. This is kinda broken IMHO.
Besides, how does one remove the Barbarian's Rage or the Tarrasque's Regeneration or anyone's "toughness" feat by hitting them? It doesn't make sense.



Fierce Guard (Ex)
OK, this is weird. So if someone tries to use Diplomacy or Intimidate on the fighter, they are forced to make an attack roll? How about another fighter trying to force this fighter to make an attack roll when using his own Fierce Guard against them? (i.e. being used in opposition). You should probably specify specific kinds of "targeted" effects that don't require attack rolls for this ability.



Kill What Needs To Be Killed (Ex)
The Fighter, as an immediate action, removes the paladin's divine grace or lay-on-hands ability. Or the cleric's turn undead ability. Or the dragon's ability to breathe fire or the ghost's incorporeality.
This ability does not make sense any more than its other versions and is even more unbalancing.

Yakk
2013-07-16, 07:59 AM
First glance:
At level 14 16 18 and 20, you gain ... a bonus feat. What crap is that?

Armor: you lose Heavy armor proficency. Huh?

At the Feet of the Masters: Bad pun. So, swift action basic feat swap. While neat, and it does add flexibility, it is a LOT of bookkeeping and character math, starting at level 1. You need a "version" of your character with *every* feat in the game at your fingertips.

Art of War: "plus twice the amount"? Just have a column for the pre-calculated value.

"In addition, if a feat grants a static numeric bonus, they may use either that bonus or the amount listed in the above table, whichever would be better." bigger numbers do not a better Fighter design make. And for the most part, the numbers aren't that much bigger in many cases. Unless you say 1 point power attack now generates 5 damage? That issue points out why getting the wording right is hard.

"Brutal Maneuvers" -- Needs rewording.

Do you get the bonus to-hit when fighting with two weapons? Does a shield in your offhand count as a second weapon?

Fighter Bonus Feat (Ex): See above

Organize Allies: I'd make the choice the fighter's. Simpler.

Instinctual Guard: Throw a benny at a shield user here -- the shield bonus should apply here.

It isn't clear how long the "must make a touch attack" effect lasts.

Force Your Way Through (Ex): Bigger numbers, meh, and badly worded. What does "originate with the fighter" mean?

Demonstrate Weak Spot: So the fighter can, as a swift action, make a fire elemental non-immune to fire? But it wouldn't work against a creature merely resistant to fire? There is also no range on the ability, so the Fighter can throw a rock at a dragon, hit, then 5 seconds later turn off the dragon's ability to fly, after the dragon teleported 5 miles away.

Abortive Attempt: How is this hurting someone?

Legendary Prowess: So the fighter has to repeat the swift action each round?

Extensive Knowledge: Poorly worded. "Alternatively" huh? And does LP apply?

All-Knowing Master: Based off a poorly worded ability, I have no idea what this does.

Amechra
2013-07-16, 08:23 AM
Alright, going through the list; keep in mind that I wrote this class after work a couple days ago, so I was tired. And I've been too lazy to fix everything:

1. I laughed a bit when you pointed that out; the thing is, you could grab them... but they wouldn't do anything for you. In any case, they grant the exact same bonus as their prerequisites, so... just grab Weapon Focus.

Though, Weapon Specialization, on the other hand, is a bit of a problem... I'll revise the wording.

2. Only against targeted stuff; area effects don't target a character.

I'll revise the wording so that there isn't that ambiguity.

3. The total sum of the penalties; in essence, they are getting +Strength to attack and damage rolls, to a maximum of the penalty they are currently taking.

4. I'll revise the immunity suppression to not apply to type immunities; however, a careful slash near the draconis fundamentum on a red dragon can expose its nerves to the parching influences of flames, and a precise stab to the solar plexus of a spellcaster can temporarily create an opening through one of their spells.

Remember, by this point, you are starting to hit the LEGENDARY HERO ranks, and your mundane is most people's magical.

Oh, and the suppression lasts for 1 round. It is right there in the class feature... Right there, where it says "until the beginning of the Fighter's next round."

Which I just noticed is a hateful insult to grammatical structure, and so will be fixed.

5. I know of at least 1 spell of 5th level that permanently removes any one Extraordinary ability of a creature. But yeah, I'll heavily alter this one; I'm not sure what I was thinking when I wrote this one.

Though I do remember that I wanted an ability that removed Regeneration so that you could straight up kill the Tarrasque without mucking around with Wishes.

6. Pfft! OK, that one was one I didn't think of. Still, the thought of a Fighter shoving his hands over his ears and screaming LALALALA to block Diplomacy is kinda hilarious.

Naw, I'll figure out wording for the base ability.

7. Well...

For the first 3 examples, the fact that you wounded them in just the right way shook their faith in whatever, causing their access to those abilities to falter. For the dragon's fire breath, you stab 'em in the throat and let them wheeze (actually a bad example; dragons have a gland that allows them to use their breath weapon.

It's in Draconomicon), and for the Ghost, you managed to wedge your weapon into their corpus when you hit them and you dragged them kicking and screaming onto the Material.

In addition, since it requires you to take an action each round to remove the feature (while they are pounding on you), I don't see it as too broken. After all, there are a bunch of conditions that remove the ability to use Swift actions, and when you get down to it, most Supernatural abilities don't come together.

After all, you suppress the Paladin's Divine Blessing and Lay on Hands. So they then beat your face in with their sword, which you can't use any of your defensive class features against, because they require the actions you are using to, essentially, give the guy a penalty to saves and the inability to use an ability that they probably weren't using in battle anyway.

Or with the Cleric; they lose their Turn Undead? They still can slaughter you with their spells.

The dragon? It's still a dragon, with spellcasting, the best chassis, a bunch of natural attacks, etc, etc.

The ghost? They can still beat you up by throwing things at you with telekinesis, or use the fact that they are so horrifying to give you ability damage.

I don't see it as unbalancing the class, simply because it is against one or two abilities, and basically disallows you from using any of your other interesting class features. And Supernatural Abilities tend not to be the be-all and end-all of a given creature's capabilities.

Therefor... I will revise some stuff. Later. After a nap/perusing the forums for a bit more.

Amechra
2013-07-16, 08:48 AM
As I've previously noted, this thing ain't done. I'll figure something out for those levels.

At level one, you actually can't purchase any heavy armors; although, while making revisions, I may just slip it back in...

Art of War wouldn't affect Power Attack, since it is not a static numeric bonus. And there are some neat tricks you can pull of with this, such as technically getting all your iterative at maximum BAB. And it isn't the whole of the fix, so your snooty "big numbers does not a fighter fix make" just gets a snort out of me.

Brutal Maneuvers is getting a revision.

What above thing are you referencing with the Bonus Fighter feats? I can't tell. At all.

Organize Allies... I can see your point there.

It took me a while to see what you were going for with Instinctual Guard, and I might just through that in there; though, considering that Shield Ward (a feat that lets you apply your Shield bonus against all touch attacks) is pretty much on the top of the list for any shield user...

The must make as a touch attack applies to that effect only. The ability is pretty darn clear about that (I can't interpret it any other way, anyway).

"Originate with the fighter" is a cludge because 3.5e never saw fit to create a term that means "caused by a creature to itself". Basically, the ability applies against all penalties from anything that isn't the fighter. So a curse? Gets mitigated. Power Attack penalty? Does not get mitigated. Screw it, I'm gutting and replacing this ability.

People have walked on broken legs for a few seconds before realizing they were broken. The ability basically is you causing damage to their body or energy flows or whatever so that the movement speed goes away. You (the player) just get to decide after you make the attack whether or not the attack damaged/surprised them enough to make them drop like a rock.

Abortive Attempt is getting a rewrite, since it is unclear in its current form, and is actually overpowered (it shuts down practically any mundane tactic but hitting them with a big ol' metal stick. BORING.)

If you want to keep the epic feat, you gotta pay the action cost each round.

And how is Extensive Knowledge poorly worded? Seriously, tell me how that thing is confusing you.

The only way I can interpret it is "you can either gain two feats, each of which must be taken from the pool of feats that you count as having through At the Feet of Masters, or you can gain one feat, who may not have any feats as prerequisites that you do not count as having through At the Feet of Masters".

And of course you get the boost from Legendary Prowess.

As for "Increases Bookkeeping", I would argue that there isn't much more book-keeping than a spellcaster with a few buffs (there actually aren't that many Fighter feats that don't have other feats as prerequisites, and many of them are a straightforward "+1 to one thing".)

NOTE: I may just end up scrapping this iteration (my luck with Fighter fixes is teh suxorz), and work on rewrites for other mundane classes as a warm up. After all, I'm very satisfied with my Monk Rewrite (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275306), and it could just be the annoying broadness of the Fighter that prevents me from getting a good purchase on the class.

Yakk
2013-07-16, 09:31 AM
FBF: see above
was a reference back to
First glance:
At level 14 16 18 and 20, you gain ... a bonus feat. What crap is that?

The problem is that it is an action the Fighter takes on a target at which the Fighter has no causal channel to anymore. And I have no idea why you worked it that way.

I approve of the Fighter being able to stop a target from flying. I just don't like the mechanics, which seem needlessly strange.

Belial_the_Leveler
2013-07-16, 09:42 AM
And the other issue; should a low-level fighter be able to prevent a greater dragon from flying with no check required?

Yakk
2013-07-16, 12:21 PM
The fighter has to hit to use the ability.