Replacing healer with wizard (also Battlefield Control for large groups)

[Cybris75]

For the last two levels, our party has been lacking a cleric, and we don't have any other party member who can heal, restore attributes, cancel status
effects and so on. The characters are low- to mid-optimized.

At first we had been using lots of potions (cure X wounds, lesser restoration, remove fear, remove disease, stuff like that), and have healing belts, but now (CL 14) we
find more and more enemies where this is no longer sufficient.

I know that the best way to heal damage and other effects is to avoid them, but it's quite impossible to prepare for everything. Every character has their own strengths
(cloak of predatory vigor, ring of blinking, greater mirror image, shadow cloak, third eye clarity, enduring amulet, everyone has evasion, massive situational boosts to
saves, plus different energy resistances, plus temporary hitpoints), but still damage gets through, in part because I banned the abjuration school for fluff reasons and
can't protect us as good as I should be able to, because I need to rely on scrolls a lot.

When our DM generously provided us with a staff of life, I started optimizing the UMD skill of my wizard. My bonus is at 23 by now (27 for scrolls), and my familiar is at 17. I have boosted WIS
to 16 using items, so I can use many good cleric spells as scrolls without a second UMD check. I'm carrying
lots of scrolls (remove paralysis, break enchantment, restoration, remove curse, neutralize poison) and wands (protection from X, cure X wounds/vigor), and will buy one or two rods of bodily
restoration soon. We don't want to change our playing styles too much (the other characters are pretty reckless, and this is fun to us), but I don't mind taking the party healer role if we don't
remove threats quickly enough (my character is 20+ years older than the others and kind of protective). We are pretty good on the offensive side (me being the debuffer and battlefield controller),
but I'm the only spellcaster. We don't want cohorts or NPC clerics with us, because it feels like cheating to us - even my familiar doesn't do anything in combat unless I need an extra action
to heal two people at once because they got 150+ damage in the surprise round.

My question for the playground is: what other equipment is useful, or even necessary, for a wizard to be able to protect and heal a pretty reckless melee party from higher-level threats,
i.e. replacing the healbot cleric? What spells are good to be bought as scrolls, or staffs? Which items can I recommend to the other characters for protection? Which threats cannot be covered
with scrolls and items alone? We have been finding lots of loot, and are above WBL now - at the moment we have about 100k to spare.

[CaladanMoonblad]

Hm... UMD in the Wizard skill list...


The wizard’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

It seems to be hiding somewhere...




Hirelings.

In the DMG (and Stronghold Builder's Guide) there is a list of average hireling costs per month. If all you need is someone to heal after a battle, then buy an appropriate wand (cure light wounds, vigor, etc.), and hire a level 1 cleric on the open market for 30 gold per month. If you are afraid the GM will gank your hireling, keep the fellow with your mounts or something.

[Cybris75]

Hm... UMD in the Wizard skill list...

I took my latest two levels in Loremaster, which has UMD as a class skill. Also CHA 18 (charisma enhancement on a shadow cloak) and a circlet of persuasion to get the bonus up.

Unfortunately I also sometimes need to heal during combat when we make mistakes. The hireling is a good idea, but as stated, we don't want any NPCs around which we also have to protect when we go into combat.

[Pilo]

You can use limited wish to cast cleric spells or planar binding to get a astral deva or a Leonal or a 12 level aasimar cleric.

[Cybris75]

You can use limited wish to cast cleric spells or planar binding to get a astral deva or a Leonal or a 12 level aasimar cleric.

Thanks, both of these would also work well. The 300XP for limited wish would be somewhat painful, but is still better than losing a level from a ressurection.

I'm not sure the planar binding route would fit our flavor of game; we have some reservations on that. But it is a good idea, if we adventure in areas where divine beings don't cause lots of attention.

[CaladanMoonblad]

I took my latest two levels in Loremaster, which has UMD as a class skill. Also CHA 18 (charisma enhancement on a shadow cloak) and a circlet of persuasion to get the bonus up.

Unfortunately I also sometimes need to heal during combat when we make mistakes. The hireling is a good idea, but as stated, we don't want any NPCs around which we also have to protect when we go into combat.

In that case... one mitigating option would be Summon Monster VI (Wizard 6), and get a Bralani. They will last for 14 rounds at your CL, and each round can do Cure Serious Wounds (3d8+6) to anyone they touch. 14 healing spells for the price of 1, plus the Bralani can act as a second pair of hands while you are busy making the encounter quicker (through CC or direct damage). Avg heal per touch is 4.5x2+6 = 15. So 14x15 hitpoints is 210 hitpoints of healing.

[Psyren]

If the party is taking a lot of damage during combat, you may have a control or buff deficiency rather than a healing deficiency. There's little you can do if the DM is constantly jumping you with surprise rounds, but try to have as much mitigation active as you can while adventuring. During fights, prioritize sectioning the battlefield with walls/clouds, relying on summons to hold the front line, and denying or negating the actions of the enemy.

[nedz]

You could spend a feat on Arcane Disciple and nab the Healing domain. This wouldn't give you many healing spells, though Heal is available provided you have the Wisdom. It also gives you is the ability to use Wands/Scrolls of curing.

[Grod_The_Giant]

You could ask your DM if you could find research some arcane versions of healing spells. If he handed over a staff of life, it sounds like he's concerned enough about the issue that he might go for it.

Alternately, if you have/can retrain the skills, you could dip [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigeBard"]Prestige Bard[/URL and gain access to the heals on the bard list.

[ericgrau]

Between combats you better use a wand of cure light wounds instead of that uber expensive staff, if you aren't already.

Battlefield control + heal is already efficient... are you using the major battlefield control that removes many opponents like wall of force and sleet storm? Those often bring more delay, and thus less enemy damage, than the ones with smaller areas. Sometimes protection from energy or mass energy resistance is helpful too.

I think being able to prevent all damage is a fantasy. And heal is a good spell, way better than cure X wounds. If there's only 1 person to heal in a later round that's no big deal. Needing to heal 2 people at once or round 1-2 healing are the things to avoid.

If you get a buffing round pop the rogue or the most death prone party member with greater invisibility. Normally I would say haste but at your level anyone who wants haste should buy their own boots of speed. At your level the rest of the party should be carrying potions of displacement for every buff round. The 750 gp is nothing compared to the damage prevented, and even spamming several is far far cheaper than permanent items like the 50,000 gp cloak. Sometimes it may be worth it even if there is no buff round, for the front liner to drink and move round 1. As an emergency escape method everyone should carry potions of invisibility too. Since drinking a potion provokes and the foe can sunder it with an attack of opportunity, it's not as great if you face a lot of foes with reach. Any time your allies sit on their thumbs during a buff round that is a wasted turn; not being a spellcaster is no excuse and the gp is cheaper than anything else. A small number of other level 1-3 potions may be handy, in case there is a 2nd buff round or in case the opponent has true seeing. Or for tricky options like fly, if the player doesn't already have a permanent item for it.

[Flickerdart]

In that case... one mitigating option would be Summon Monster VI (Wizard 6), and get a Bralani. They will last for 14 rounds at your CL, and each round can do Cure Serious Wounds (3d8+6) to anyone they touch. 14 healing spells for the price of 1, plus the Bralani can act as a second pair of hands while you are busy making the encounter quicker (through CC or direct damage). Avg heal per touch is 4.5x2+6 = 15. So 14x15 hitpoints is 210 hitpoints of healing.
Bralani only have Cure Serious 2/day.

[Cybris75]

There's little you can do if the DM is constantly jumping you with surprise rounds

We pissed off a major force of hostile outsiders living inside a mointain planning an invasion (6000+ troops). They evicted the local Drow(!) and we are gathering support from the authorities, but they keep coming at us with astral stalkers, invisible ranged rogues, shapechangers, even in populated areas. They really want us dead. We have protection from scrying, but they still find us with their spies, so unless we give them a really bloody nose by starting a war, we will still be ambushed. Local hirelings can't protect us much. Plus, they now know I'm the spellcaster because we let some escape last time, so their newest tactic is delaying actions until I start casting. Ouch!

Up in the mountains they have started dominating the local giants and wildlife, which attack us everytime we show up at one of the cave entrances. Teleporting inside the mountain is blocked, as is scrying.


During fights, prioritize sectioning the battlefield with walls/clouds, relying on summons to hold the front line, and denying or negating the actions of the enemy.

I'm throwing around walls of stone, cloudkills, solid fogs, slow, illusory pit, even fear, stuff like that. Wall of Force and Forcecage are only available via scrolls, as, unfortunately, is Geater Dispel Magic and Feeblemind. Casters get a maximized empowered split ray enervation ( 8 + 2d4/2 negative levels - Arcane Thesis + Metamagic school focus, before anyone asks). But I can't get every enemy with every single casting, because they are not dumb and will have invisible ground troops plus archers and casters on different roofs.

Summoning mobile "flesh walls" might help, thanks, I'll look into what is available.

[Cybris75]

You could spend a feat on Arcane Disciple and nab the Healing domain. This wouldn't give you many healing spells, though Heal is available provided you have the Wisdom. It also gives you is the ability to use Wands/Scrolls of curing.

1 Heal/day may not good enough, and my reading of Arcane Disciple says you can use each domain spell exactly once per day. Besides, I can just buy a staff of heal when my staff of life is used up. My UMD is high enough I don't even have to roll for wands and staffs, regardless which kind of spell is in them.

Also, my deity is Wee Jas, and I was planning to get Arcane Disciple with the Mind domain in order to regain Mind Blank.

[Cybris75]

Between combats you better use a wand of cure light wounds instead of that uber expensive staff, if you aren't already.

Yes, me and my familiar are spamming wands of CLW after the battle, but that doesn't remove status effects or ability damage/drain. We use scrolls for the other stuff, but I don't even know of a spell besides Heal that cures ability drain (we had some trouble with a local vampire coven last time. They were making deals with the invaders, so we had to take them down. Leader was a level 12 vampire wizard, who ate a maximized greater disrupt undead).


Battlefield control + heal is already efficient... are you using the major battlefield control that removes many opponents like wall of force and sleet storm? Those often bring more delay, and thus less enemy damage, than the ones with smaller areas. Sometimes protection from energy or mass energy resistance is helpful too.

Yes, regarding battlefield controls, please see my above post. I'm a firm believer in divide and conquer. The others do the damage, I deliver the enemies in the correct order. Unfortunately, flying enemies are a problem for many of my battlefield controls. We can all fly, too, but e.g. solid fog has only a very small radius if the enemies are on opposite sides of the battlefield and on different elevations.


If you get a buffing round pop the rogue or the most death prone party member with greater invisibility.

The rogue uses a ring of blinking, and I use greater invisibility now and then on him or the tank, but thanks for the good advice.


At your level the rest of the party should be carrying potions of displacement for every buff round.

Neat idea! Mirror Image would also work. Thanks, that's very helpful. (Edit: mirror image is illegal for potions because it's self only :-( )

[Zanos]

Assuming you have a decent chunk of time between encounters Wands of Lesser Vigor are dirt cheap and heal tons of HP for their cost. They just take awhile.

[ericgrau]

but e.g. solid fog has only a very small radius if the enemies are on opposite sides of the battlefield and on different elevations.
Ya that's why I suggested the bigger ones. Sleet storm is an 80 foot diameter, for example. For lone foes you can also use no save debuffs like empowered ray of enfeeblement or empowered enervation.

[Cybris75]

Ya that's why I suggested the bigger ones. Sleet storm is an 80 foot diameter, for example. For lone foes you can also use no save debuffs like empowered ray of enfeeblement or empowered enervation.

Thanks, I'll look into that. 40-ft radius and 20-ft high sounds great. Good we can fly ourselves, I can think of maybe one of us who has ranks in balance...

[ericgrau]

For status effects carry 1-2 of every scroll of remove X, perhaps more of the level 1-2 ones or anything that's common. For ability drain you need restoration unfortunately, a 4th level spell. A wand is 21k if it's really common, or try to find a used halfish charged one if allowed, or otherwise scrolls are 700 gp each and DC 27 UMD. Heal doesn't actually work for ability drain, only ability damage.

[Tokuhara]

I'm coming into a similar situation. Our cleric is struggling to keep pace, so I wanted to roll a Wizard up with Arcane Disciple: Healing as a feat to cover down and keep myself healed if needed.

[JusticeZero]

I think being able to prevent all damage is a fantasy.Preventing enough damage that people feel comfortable just eating through a CLW wand after the battle, however, is very reasonable. I don't like the attitude of "You can't prevent every single point of damage, ergo, you need a healbot character". It just isn't true. When people start taking hits, it doesn't mean "stop wizarding and heal", it means "We need to lay down some crowd control effects right away before things get worse!" The same for clerics. I can tell how a fight is going by whether or not a given side is using healing. If someone is spamming healing, then the fight is circling the drain for them already and that side is just hoping the fight ends before the cleric finishes novaing repairs. If they live through the fight, they're done for the day.

[ericgrau]

There are always going to be emergencies if there is any challenge to the game at all. Even if healing lessens your chance of winning the fight, a TPK is not the typical issue players face. Single player death is. Your options are heal so he can survive the last round or two of combat, pay for a resurrection, or protect him somehow like invisibility, resilient sphere or revivify. When someone's within an inch of his life, reducing enemy effectiveness by half won't stop foes from finishing him off.

This is sort of why police often use armor and riot shields and soldiers often don't. One expects to trade lives out of necessity and the other expects no lives to be lost. Attempting to protect every life may be impractical for winning wars, but it's a must for law enforcement. And for PCs.

A pile of backup characters and a 50:50 shot of winning or TPKing each encounter could be interesting to try some day, but campaigns are rarely set up that way.

That and heal is a really efficient spell, unlike cure spells. Putting an ally fully back in the fight for a couple more rounds is often better than anything you could do in 1 round even if the ally could escape.

[Psyren]

Yes, me and my familiar are spamming wands of CLW after the battle, but that doesn't remove status effects or ability damage/drain. We use scrolls for the other stuff, but I don't even know of a spell besides Heal that cures ability drain (we had some trouble with a local vampire coven last time. They were making deals with the invaders, so we had to take them down. Leader was a level 12 vampire wizard, who ate a maximized greater disrupt undead).

Restoration cures ability drain (one score at a time) while Greater Restoration cures your scores at once. You can access the former from Limited Wish easily if needed.



Yes, regarding battlefield controls, please see my above post. I'm a firm believer in divide and conquer. The others do the damage, I deliver the enemies in the correct order. Unfortunately, flying enemies are a problem for many of my battlefield controls. We can all fly, too, but e.g. solid fog has only a very small radius if the enemies are on opposite sides of the battlefield and on different elevations.

Resilient Sphere can deal with most fliers. If they fly with wings, a tripping attack like Howling Chain can mess up their day as well, and be useful against ground foes too. And if all else fails, summon a flier of your own or put your beatsticks on Phantom Steeds.

Wind Wall can shut down their archers and protect you from some flying enemies e.g. swarms.

[Tokuhara]

Now, this all being said, [puts on ring of fire immunity and casts Flame shield] just because in-combat healing isn't optimal doesn't mean you shouldn't, should the need arise. Again, in a perfectly fair D&D combat, yes, the Cleric/Wizard/Druid should be able to cut down on damage for the meat shields, but let's entertain this thought: You're doing really well at Battlefield Control, limiting the damage done to your party when an enemy activates a rock fall trap that drops your Rogue into the negatives (because natural 1's exist), but not to -10. You're a cleric. He has been making sure the party Warblade hits the enemies, and is now missing. Your turn comes up. Is it worth one turn to burn a heal spell to get the Rogue up, or risk your Warblade struggling to hit?

[Psyren]

I don't think anyone is saying in-combat healing should never be used. When it is the difference between a character living and dying - or even just staying conscious so it can use its actions to escape or retaliate - it certainly serves a purpose.

The problem is that in-combat healing carries so many drawbacks that it takes fairly specific situations to be worthwhile, particularly in 3.5. Cure spells are very swingy and scale very poorly relative to incoming damage as levels increase; most of them are touch range requiring the "healer" to be within arm's reach or capable of getting there quickly; most actions that heal hit points provoke painful retaliation, including using healing items; and worst of all, dropping a heal generally does nothing to prevent more damage in a later round.

There are ways to mitigate these drawbacks, but in general, allocating those same resources to other forms of defense or even offense yields better dividends.

[Tokuhara]

I don't disagree Psy. For my Grey Elf Generalist, I rolled 2 18's (one I put in Int and one in Wis. Fit the concept better than Con. Wimpy Wussy Librarian) and because I have spent my points to fit the Librarian concept, I realized 12 Con is a hair painful, so I burned a feat for Arcane Disciple: Healing. Is it optimal? No. Will it come in handy? Likely, should the 4 beatsticks fail and the soft and vulnerable Wizard get thwacked by the Ogre Barbarian's Greatlub/Enemy Artillery/Caster Barbeques my Behind from Afar. That heal may seem like a wasted turn, but Richard is a wuss: He's 110lb soaking wet with two bricks in his robes, and I know how to abuse Wizard, so I thought I'd challenge myself with a soft Wizard PC with low HP.

[Vaz]

If you have a druid, in place of summoning a Bralani as a Wizard, a Druid gets Unicorns as SNA (guess who has SNA as a Spontaneous spell?) 4 levels earlier than a Wizard gets a Bralani.

[Flickerdart]

Interestingly but perhaps uselessly, a wizard with Improved Familiar and seven instances of Extra Familiar can have eight Formian Workers, who can use Cure Serious at-will.

[gorfnab]

Arcane Disciple: Healing feat + Combat Medic (HoB) prestige class

[JusticeZero]

I'd think that a better rule of thumb is "if you use a heal in combat two times in a row, you are losing."

[Slide]

I'm coming into a similar situation. Our cleric is struggling to keep pace, so I wanted to roll a Wizard up with Arcane Disciple: Healing as a feat to cover down and keep myself healed if needed.

DMM ->Persist-> Vigorous Circle?

[nedz]

DMM ->Persist-> Vigorous Circle?

Vigorous Circle is hard to get for a Wizard: none of the Vigor spells are in any domain.

[TuggyNE]

Vigorous Circle is hard to get for a Wizard: none of the Vigor spells are in any domain.

Given that DMM is well-nigh impossible for a Wizard to use, I expect the intent was to have the party's existing Cleric put that on.

[nedz]

Given that DMM is well-nigh impossible for a Wizard to use, I expect the intent was to have the party's existing Cleric put that on.

DMM is actually easier — Sacred Exorcist 1 for TU, etc. also Wizard bonus feats can help with the Extend and Persist.

[Vaz]

Doesn't a wizard, you know, dump Charisma, so that it has only 1-2 uses/day? Even with Nightsticks, he can't DMM Persist (requires 7 uses/time)

Sure, it can nightstick away, but that also brings into questions regarding the usages for his spells that his can DMM; there are only a few he can can DMM. And it then becomes an even more item dependent build; the DM can just "nope" it away if it becomes a problem.

[nedz]

Well I suspect that if you were to build such a Wizard then you wouldn't dump Cha — after all Wizard is not short on dump stats.

[Telonius]

You could polymorph all of your party into Warforged, then just go to town on Repair Construct...?