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NeverAsPlanned
2013-07-15, 05:02 PM
so I've been mulling on this idea for while now but only recently have i actually finished it.

I love new ideas, and I deeply appreciate comments, as the goal of me posting it is to balance it.

so before I start, its VERY important that someone using this class keep track of who rolled what for initiative, as this class has this tendency to shuffle around on the turn order...

some people accomplish there goals by sneaking around, some by overpowering the situation, and some through unstoppable arcane magic. when someone becomes powerful enough that they can claim to be unstoppable, how do you win? simple, one must strike first. this is the goal of the Blaze Knight, it is to be the first one in, and therefore be the first one done. to be a Blaze Knight, one must be disciplined and Able.

Entry requirements:
Base Attack Bonus: +5
Feat: improved initiative, Lightning Reflexes.
Special: must have a land speed of 40 if medium, 30 if small(be it from a class, or innate).


Blaze Knight
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
land speed increase

1st|+1|+0|+2|+0|Fast As Lightning, Ever Faster|
10

2nd|+2|+0|+3|+0|Blazing Blitz 1/d, Burning Speed|
10

3rd|+3|+1|+3|+1|Evasion, Rev Up|
10

4th|+4|+1|+4|+1|Blazing Blitz 2/d, Ever Faster|
20

5th|+5|+1|+4|+1|Sucker Punch|
20

6th|+6|+2|+5|+2|Blazing Blitz 3/d|
20

7th|+7|+2|+5|+2|What the Hell Was That?, Ever Faster|
30

8th|+8|+2|+6|+2|Blazing Blitz 4/d, Strike From Everywhere|
30

9th|+9|+3|+6|+3|Improved Rev up, Overdrive|
30

10th|+10|+3|+7|+3|Blazing Blitz 5/d, Ever Faster|
40

[/table]
Alignment: Any Non-Chaotic
Hit Die: 1d8

Class Skills:
Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, move silently, search, spot, tumble, use magic device
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier

Ever Faster- the more you do something, the better you become. a blaze Knight gets a +1 bonus to initiative and Reflex, and +10 to land speed at lv 1, and every three levels after (1,4,7,10)

Fast as lightning- as long as a blaze Knight does not wear medium or heavy armor, he gains a bonus to his Deflection AC equal to his wisdom modifier. This effect is ignored if he is immobilized.

Blazing Blitz- a blaze knight can sneak in an extra attack every now and then. Whenever a rogue may legally make a sneak attack, a blaze knight can expend one use of his Blazing Blitz to make an additional attack at his full base attack bonus -5. This extra attack does an additional 1d6 dmg in fire damage equal to half his class level rounded down. Sneak attack, sudden strike, skirmish, or any other form of bonus damage not originating from this class may not be applied to this attack. for purposes of determining how many attacks you can make a turn, this cannot be used on the same turn you make an attack from a Haste Effect. however you may forgo any attack from a haste effect to use this instead for that turn.

Evasion: as rogue, if you already have evasion from another class, this becomes Improved evasion.

Burning Speed- in a surge of speed, a Blaze lord can set there attacks ablaze, at the cost of speed. a blaze Knight may decrease his own initiative to do additional damage for a single attack. By spending one point of initiative, he may add 1d4 damage to his next attack, by spending 2 more, he may add a second 1d4, by spending 3 more, he may add another 1d4, and finally by spending 4 more he may add another 1d4. This increases to 1d6’s at lv 5. If this would cause his turn to lower in the turn order, he finishes his turn as normal, and his position does not change until the end of the Round. All damage added by this effect is considered Fire damage.

Rev up- at the beginning of each turn, a Blaze knight’s initiative increases by 2, the beginning of the turn marked by the person with the highest initiative. If this would raise his action to above someone else’s in the turn order, finish the turn, then do so. This effect is ignored if wearing medium or heavy armor, or is carrying a medium or heavier load. This number increases to 4 at lv 9.

Sucker punch- if a Blaze knight is in range of anyone who is attempting to cast, the Blaze knight can burn 4 points of his initiative to make an attack at his full Base Attack Bonus. If he hits, the spell is lost and no check can be made to recover it(such as a concentration check). If this would cause his turn to lower in the turn order, he finishes his turn as normal, and his position does not change until the end of the Round.

What the Hell Was That?- if a Blaze Knight moves at least 30ft or more in a turn, he does not trigger any traps in those areas he crosses(except caltrops), and cannot be spotted with a spot check. In addition if he runs at least 30ft, he may run up a wall as if it was flat terrain(so long as he keeps running at full speed, he may continue to run up the wall, the moment he does not move at least 30ft, he must catch something on the wall or fall)

Strike From Everywhere- during a full round attack, a Blaze Knight can take a 5ft step between each attack, these movements do not provoke an attack of opportunity, and he is considered to occupy any space he steps in until the end of the turn(meaning he can flank with himself)

Overdrive- a blaze Knight may decrease his initiative by 20 to take another turn immediately after this one(this effect is a free action). After the free turn, If this would cause his turn to lower in the turn order, he finishes his turn as normal, and his position does not change until the end of the Round. If the Blaze knight is over lv 15, then instead the benefit becomes the effect of a Stop Time spell effect.

so edits...
thank you for your input.

Requirements: boosted to BAB 5, removed "fire" req, and added Lightning Reflexes to requirements.

Muscle memory:Removed
Just that fast: removed (I should probably stop keeping track of removed things...)

Fast as lightning: made it based on Will instead of Reflex save as i technically don't have any stats assigned to anything.
also as AC boost isn't based on reflex save anymore, i think its ok to make refles the Good save now...

Blazing blitz: the point WAS to get another attack in, so for now i dropped it from full BAB to BAB-5. will make more deductions/changes if necessary. also added a note about haste effect so then you can just load up on tricks and get a million attacks in...

lets start from there and keep scaling back.

Madara
2013-07-15, 05:38 PM
response in bold


so I've been mulling on this idea for while now but only recently have i actually finished it.

I love new ideas, and I deeply appreciate comments, as the goal of me posting it is to balance it.

so before I start, its VERY important that someone using this class keep track of who rolled what for initiative, as this class has this tendency to shuffle around on the turn order...

some people accomplish there goals by sneaking around, some by overpowering the situation, and some through unstoppable arcane magic. when someone becomes powerful enough that they can claim to be unstoppable, how do you win? simple, one must strike first. this is the goal of the Blaze Knight, it is to be the first one in, and therefore be the first one done. to be a Blaze Knight, one must be disciplined and Able.

Entry requirements:
Base Attack Bonus: +3

Most classes allow entry at level 6, this is probably too early. Up it to BAB +5 or +6
Feat: improved initiative
Keep in mind that this isn't a feat tax, and people would already take it anyways, so that makes this class more powerful. For a class of this power you should throw in a Lightning Reflexes requirement.
Special: must have a land speed of 40 if medium, 30 if small(be it from a class, item, or innate), must be able to produce fire without tools(be it magical or not) or be in possession of a weapon that can light itself on fire(such as a flaming weapon).

While the first requirement is fairly reasonable and achievable, the second allows for far easier access, and doesn't seem to fit with the fluff besides the name of the class. Furthermore, item requirements aren't common for Prestige classes and it should probably be removed. Make sure to consider that if you have the item requirement that means if the item is lost, the character no longer qualifies and loses the abilities until they regain the item.


Blaze Knight
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
land speed increase

1st|+1|+2|+0|+0|Fast As Lightning, Ever Faster, Muscle memory|
10

2nd|+2|+3|+0|+0|Blazing Blitz 1/d, Burning Speed|
10

3rd|+3|+3|+1|+1|Evasion, Rev Up|
10

4th|+4|+4|+1|+1|Blazing Blitz 2/d, Ever Faster|
20

5th|+5|+4|+1|+1|Sucker Punch|
20

6th|+6|+5|+2|+2|Blazing Blitz 3/d, Just that Fast|
20

7th|+7|+5|+2|+2|What the Hell Was That?, Ever Faster|
30

8th|+8|+6|+2|+2|Blazing Blitz 4/d, Strike From Everywhere|
30

9th|+9|+6|+3|+3|Improved Rev up, Overdrive|
30

10th|+10|+7|+3|+3|Blazing Blitz 5/d, Ever Faster|
40

[/table]
Alignment: Any Non-Chaotic
Hit Die: 1d8

Class Skills:
Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, move silently, search, spot, tumble, use magic device
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier

Muscle memory- it's all about training, to those who have trained, its child's play to charge into combat. whenever Initiative is rolled, a blaze Knight can take 10. This effect is not allowed to be used if he cannot attack someone on the first turn, and he must attempt to do so.

The italicized portion needs rewording, and initiative is huge in late game rocket tag. Rerolls on init are considered golden, and you're giving take 10 on initiative to a level 4 character?
Ever Faster- the more you do something, the better you become. a blaze Knight gets a +1 bonus to initiative and Reflex, and +10 to land speed at lv 1, and every three levels after (1,4,7,10)

Fast as lightning- as long as a blaze Knight does not wear medium or heavy armor, he gains a bonus to his Deflection AC equal to half his reflex save. This effect is ignored if he is immobilized.

Let's do some quick math. 10(Base AC)+5(Mithril Breastplate)+4(18 Dex)+5(4th level rogue(4)+4 Dex+Blaze Knight 1(2)=10/2)= 24 AC without spells or magic items, buckler brings to 25. This ability isn't broken on its own, but it suggests this class is a tank of some sort.

Blazing Blitz- a blaze knight can sneak in an extra attack every now and then. Whenever a rogue may legally make a sneak attack, a blaze knight can expend one use of his Blazing Blitz to make an additional attack at his full base attack bonus. This extra attack does an additional 1d6 dmg in fire damage equal to half his class level rounded down. Sneak attack, sudden strike, skirmish, or any other form of bonus damage not originating from this class may not be applied to this attack.
The tank now has sneak attack. Because of this, I'm going to be comparing this class to straight rogue. The limit each day makes this almost reasonable, except that they get a bonus attack. Oh, this class also has full BAB progression...How would you like 3 attacks at level 6? Would you also like to have sneak attack?

Evasion: as rogue, if you already have evasion from another class, this becomes Improved evasion.
Now this tank class gains evasion. For any melee character, this class is a must, giving AC bonuses like mad and free reflex buffs.

snip

There's a lot of stuff here that needs fixing, I'll maybe give more PEACH later. As-is, this class is far too strong for the average party.

Xerlith
2013-07-15, 05:39 PM
Why is the high save fortitude?
Also, wizard or sorcerer 6 + this3/swiftblade10 can seriously drive your DM insane.

Gnolls x Whales
2013-07-15, 05:41 PM
Super overpowered class. Let's start from the top, shall we?

A meager 3 BAB entry point makes it far too easily accessible, and the "special" requirements are far too easily obtainable. Plus, taking Improved Initiative isn't really hard, and can be acquired (along with other goodies) by simply taking a 1 level Cleric dip. Raise the BAB requirement to at LEAST 6, preferably 8.

For a class with full BAB, good progression in two saves, and amazing abilities, 4+Int skill points is far too much. I'd lower it to 2+Int.

Muscle Memory + Ever Faster + Just that Fast (not to mention things like Improved Initiative and that you'd probably have a +3-4 to Dex) is just stupid. It pretty much means you WILL get the top of the initiative, no matter what, no questions asked. Turn order/initiative is AMAZINGLY important, and the fact that this class totally monopolizes it is crazy broken.

Gonna eat. Will give more feedback later.

Tanuki Tales
2013-07-15, 06:14 PM
For a class with full BAB, good progression in two saves, and amazing abilities, 4+Int skill points is far too much. I'd lower it to 2+Int.



Going to disagree with this point. I don't think it's ever appropriate or ever good game design to give so few skill points.

Gnolls x Whales
2013-07-15, 06:20 PM
Going to disagree with this point. I don't think it's ever appropriate or ever good game design to give so few skill points.

They have virtually everything else going for them, plus aren't really a skill reliant class.

NeverAsPlanned
2013-07-15, 06:38 PM
so bab was agreeably too low so upped it to 5, can up more if necessary,
lightning reflexes added to req and "fire" req dropped,
used will mod instead of half of reflex save for Fast As lightning.
moved good save to reflex,
and lowered accuracy of Blazing Blitz.
also opinion on Muscle memory, Drop, or move to lv 10?

Gnolls x Whales
2013-07-15, 06:41 PM
so bab was agreeably too low so upped it to 5, can up more if necessary,
lightning reflexes added to req and "fire" req dropped,
used will mod instead of half of reflex save,
moved good save to reflex,
and lowered accuracy of Blazing Blitz.
also opinion on Muscle memory, Drop, or move to lv 10?

Drop Muscle Memory. It's too good.

Madara
2013-07-15, 06:41 PM
so bab was agreeably too low so upped it to 5, can up more if necessary,
lightning reflexes added to req and "fire" req dropped,
used will mod instead of half of reflex save,
moved good save to reflex,
and lowered accuracy of Blazing Blitz.
also opinion on Muscle memory, Drop, or move to lv 10?

Normally offensive abilities aren't based on your save bonuses. Also, drop Muscle memory.

NeverAsPlanned
2013-07-15, 07:07 PM
ok so muscle memory removed.
and should clarify that Wis mod was for Fast as lightning not for an offensive ability.
ALSO should state that i said will when i meant wis earlier... my bad...

Gnolls x Whales
2013-07-15, 07:12 PM
Just that Fast- anyone who’s initiative roll results in a higher number then the Blaze Knight’s must re-roll once. This effect cannot trigger more than once on the same person each encounter.

Is this really needed? I mean, you're already going to beat everyone else anyways, and widening the gap more just lets you go spam happy with Burning Speed (which you can already easily spam without lowering below anyone on the turn order). Let's think about this for a second:

4(Presumed Dex mod, could rise to about 6 with something like Air Goblin) + 4(Improved Initiative), +1(Minimum from Ever Faster) = +9 to 11 Initiative. By the time you get the reroll, you have +2 Initiative, boosted to +3 the next level (from Ever Faster), and chances are, by level 9-10, you'll have some nice magic shinies, not to mention level up's, so kick your dex mod up to, say, a +7 to +8 or something. Let's calculate this now. 8+4+3=15.

Okay, so you have a +15 to initiative, cool. Throw in the fact that you've probably taken a Cleric dip for easy Improved Initiative (albeit at a BAB penalty, but still), you can easily take the Luck domain for a reroll on that 2 (which you still beat half of their party with) to kick it up to, say, 13. 13 + 15 = 28, giving you stupid amounts of wiggle room with which tumble past their front liners, kill their mage, and still have room for seconds.

TL;DR: Just that Fast isn't really needed. If you roll poorly, it sucks for you. You don't need to add even more insult to injury by forcing their Rouge to reroll. Either drop it or change it to something else.

NeverAsPlanned
2013-07-15, 07:15 PM
a good point. as it'll leave more wiggle room for more ideas later possibly, dropping it entirely seems the best course of action.